Rod of Pact Keeper with Invocations

[Rev666]

How would a Rod of The Pact Keeper affect spells granted by Eldritch Invocations?

For example say mysave DC is 19 and i pick up a +2 Rod. Would my Mask of Many Faces Disguise Self DC be 19 or 21 (as the Rod affects my warlock spells but technically my invocation just lets me cast a spell at will)

[msfnc]

I’d say no. Disguise Self is not a ‘warlock spell’ as it’s not on the warlock spell list. Other features that provide access to off-list spells explicitly state when said spells are “warlock spells for you”. Just as the rod would provide no bonus to a spell cast via Magic Initiate (non-warlock), the rod specifies its bonus is applied to “warlock spells you cast”.

[Greywander]

Technically by RAW nothing says invocation spells are warlock spells. It's possible this is an oversight, but it's impossible to know for sure unless one of the devs says something or they issue an errata. If I were DMing, I'd have no problem treating these as warlock spells, and especially if you're already a straight warlock with no multiclassing, it's just easier to treat all your spells as warlock spells without having to worry about it.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Mask of Many Faces says:
"You can cast disguise self at will, without expending a spell slot."

You're casting it, it's a spell, and you gained it from a Warlock class feature. It's a Warlock spell. So yes, I'd say that applies to it.

[Greywander]

Well, I suppose it doesn't say it counts as a warlock spell, but it also doesn't say it doesn't count as a warlock spell, either. Hrm.

Generally, my understanding is that a spell is typically considered a [class] spell if you obtained it through a Spellcasting feature (or similar, e.g. Pact Magic), or if you chose it off of a list (e.g. Magic Initiate, Spell Sniper). So EK and AT spells are technically wizard spells and should benefit from class features that only benefit wizard spells. Racial spells are usually not [class] spells (except high elf, since they choose from the wizard list, ergo it's a wizard spell). But for anything in between those two extremes, it's not really clear.

I'd say it's still ambiguous, and there's grounds to rule either way. The simplest ruling is to treat them as warlock spells, though.

[Tanarii]

If you don't know how to cast them as warlock spells, then you don't have a casting stat for them.

[Greywander]

That's... also a really good point. If it isn't a warlock spell, what's your casting stat?

I'm leaning more and more toward this being an oversight, and invocations should have included a clause that they count as warlock spells for you. They could have even put this in the general description of invocations, simply stating that any spell granted to you by an invocation counts as a warlock spell. Perhaps this doesn't need to be stated, but several other class features from other classes do take the trouble to state that spells granted to you count as spells for that class.

[Tanarii]

Oh, it definitely should have been stated.

[Valmark]

Like someone else pointed out if it wasn't a warlock spell you wouldn't know how to calculate the DC unless it was from a single class (as in, if Disguise Self was only on the wizard list it could've been based on Int but it's not) so I'm fairly sure it counts as one.


I’d say no. Disguise Self is not a ‘warlock spell’ as it’s not on the warlock spell list. Other features that provide access to off-list spells explicitly state when said spells are “warlock spells for you”. Just as the rod would provide no bonus to a spell cast via Magic Initiate (non-warlock), the rod specifies its bonus is applied to “warlock spells you cast”.

I don't think that wording is present anywhere though? Are you thinking about the subclass bonus spell list?

[Segev]

Given "rulings, not rules," what is the harm in ruling that Invocation-granted spells are "warlock Spells?"

I think the harm in opening the question of how you calculate save DCs if they are ruled not to be warlock spells is obvious.