Houserule for 2H weapons

[Sandeman]

Hi. We discussed 2H weapon damage in my gaming group and we are leaning towards the following house rules:

There are two variants of each type of 2H weapon (greatsword, greataxe, maul). One does 2d6 damage. One does 1d12 damage. So you can choose.
This evens the field between the weapons and makes the choice mostly about how you envision your charachter.

Comments? Is it reasonable?

[Magic Myrmidon]

I typically let people reflavor weapons in alllll sorts of ways. The actual type of weapon a character uses is fluff in DnD, for the most part. If someone wants a dagger to be one half of a broken pair of scissors, sure go for it.

[Sandeman]

I typically let people reflavor weapons in alllll sorts of ways. The actual type of weapon a character uses is fluff in DnD, for the most part. If someone wants a dagger to be one half of a broken pair of scissors, sure go for it.

I like that approach.

[Dienekes]

It's literally a half a point difference in damage, and both weapons deal the same damage type and have the same properties. And the game does not have abilities that care about whether you're wielding an axe, spear, or sword.

This is fine. Nothing will break.

[Tanarii]

I like that approach.
It has the disadvantage that when you find a magical Longsword, you lose finesse and have to use Str. (To use one of the most common "reflavor".

Or to put it another way, a Maul +1 does 2d6+1+Str, not suddenly switching to 1d12+1 when it gets picked up by a character that's been using a reflavored greataxe as a maul.

[Sandeman]

It has the disadvantage that when you find a magical Longsword, you lose finesse and have to use Str. (To use one of the most common "reflavor".

Or to put it another way, a Maul +1 does 2d6+1+Str, not suddenly switching to 1d12+1 when it gets picked up by a character that's been using a reflavored greataxe as a maul.

Now that I think about it. Maybe we should just let any wielder use a d12 or 2d6 for any 2H weapon they pick up. As a previous poster stated, the mathematical difference is minimal.

[MoiMagnus]

It has the disadvantage that when you find a magical Longsword, you lose finesse and have to use Str. (To use one of the most common "reflavor".

Or to put it another way, a Maul +1 does 2d6+1+Str, not suddenly switching to 1d12+1 when it gets picked up by a character that's been using a reflavored greataxe as a maul.

When I feel like I need realism, I require some time in town to customise the handle of the weapon (or whatever makes sense) for the change to happen.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

This is a disadvantage if you have the Great Weapon Fighting style:
GWF makes 1d6 average out to 4 (a 1-2 reroll averages to 3.5, 3-6 averages to 4.5, those average out to 4), so a 2d6 weapon averages 8 damage.
GWF makes 1d12 average out to 7 (a 1-2 reroll averages to 6.5, 3-12 averages to 7.5, those average out to 7), which is 1 point behind the 2d6 weapon on average.

A Half-Orc Barbarian wants to use a greataxe because both Brutal Critical and Savage Attacks get one extra weapon damage die, so a 2d6 weapon's 4d6 critical gets +2d6 (average 21, 24 with GWF), or a 1d12 weapon's 2d12 critical gets +2d12 (average 26, 28 with GWF). This makes the Crusher, Piercer, and Slasher feats all viable choices for the above character. It also makes it so the above character can pick up any magical 2d6 weapon he finds and wield it as a 1d12 weapon. However, I don't think the slightly better critical hits would make the lower overall average worthwhile.

[Sigreid]

It's only really going to have an effect on people with 2h weapon fighting style. To me it's a /shrug either way.

[JNAProductions]

This is a disadvantage if you have the Great Weapon Fighting style:
GWF makes 1d6 average out to 4 (a 1-2 reroll averages to 3.5, 3-6 averages to 4.5, those average out to 4), so a 2d6 weapon averages 8 damage.
GWF makes 1d12 average out to 7 (a 1-2 reroll averages to 6.5, 3-12 averages to 7.5, those average out to 7), which is 1 point behind the 2d6 weapon on average.

A Half-Orc Barbarian wants to use a greataxe because both Brutal Critical and Savage Attacks get one extra weapon damage die, so a 2d6 weapon's 4d6 critical gets +2d6 (average 21, 24 with GWF), or a 1d12 weapon's 2d12 critical gets +2d12 (average 26, 28 with GWF). This makes the Crusher, Piercer, and Slasher feats all viable choices for the above character. It also makes it so the above character can pick up any magical 2d6 weapon he finds and wield it as a 1d12 weapon. However, I don't think the slightly better critical hits would make the lower overall average worthwhile.

That's not how you find the numbers.

To find the average of 1d6, you'd add all the numbers together and divide by six. 3.5 is the answer, as I'm pretty sure we all know here.
To find the average of 1d6 (reroll 1s and 2s) you replace 1 and 2 with the average. That adds 2.5 and 1.5 to the total, which is 4, then divide by 6. It's actually 4.167, or 4 and 1/6th.

Your issue is that you treat the 3.5 (resulting from rolling a 1 or 2) and the 4.5 (resulting from rolling a 3, 4, 5, or 6) as equally likely, when the 4.5 result is actually twice as likely. (4.5+4.5+3.5)/3 gets you the same result as my math above.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

That's not how you find the numbers.

To find the average of 1d6, you'd add all the numbers together and divide by six. 3.5 is the answer, as I'm pretty sure we all know here.
To find the average of 1d6 (reroll 1s and 2s) you replace 1 and 2 with the average. That adds 2.5 and 1.5 to the total, which is 4, then divide by 6. It's actually 4.167, or 4 and 1/6th.

Your issue is that you treat the 3.5 (resulting from rolling a 1 or 2) and the 4.5 (resulting from rolling a 3, 4, 5, or 6) as equally likely, when the 4.5 result is actually twice as likely. (4.5+4.5+3.5)/3 gets you the same result as my math above.

Here's how I determined it:

Roll 1d6, if the result is a 1 or 2, you reroll it but keep the result, even if it's a 1 or 2 again.
That means a roll of 1 or 2 is a normal roll, which averages out to 3.5.
A roll of 3, 4, 5, or 6 is kept, so that averages out to (3+4+5+6 divided by 4, because four numbers are being added together)=4.5.
That means the overall average is (3.5+4.5 divided by 2)=4 damage for 1d6 with the Great Weapon Fighting style.

The 1d12 average is found the same way. A 1 or 2 is rerolled but any result is kept, so a 1 or 2 averages out to 6.5.
The remaining possible rolls of 3-12 are averaged (3+4+5+6+7+8+9+10+11+12 divided by 10)=7.5.
Average those together (6.5+7.5 divided by 2)=7 damage for 1d12 with the Great Weapon Fighting style.


However, that gives the 1-2 just as much weight as the other rolls of that die, which is inaccurate.

A roll of 1-2 on 1d6 still averages out to 3.5, so 3.5+3.5+3+4+5+6 divided by 6 makes it 4.1667 average damage for 1d6 with GWF.
A roll of 1-2 on 1d12 averages out to 6.5, so 6.5+6.5+3+4+5+6+7+8+9+10+11+12 divided by 12 is 7.3333

So a 2d6 weapon with GWF is 8.3333 average damage, and a 1d12 weapon with GWF is 7.3333 average damage. It's still 1 point of damage difference.

[stoutstien]

GWF is an increase of 0.66 for a d6 and 0.83 for a d12. (N-2)/N
Just make it +2 or an extra d4 and then it's a none issue.

[Sharur]

GWF is an increase of 0.66 for a d6 and 0.83 for a d12. (N-2)/N
Just make it +2 or an extra d4 and then it's a none issue.

I agree with you, GWF style is underpowered and hard to evaluate. I'd pull from past editions and houserule it to double the strength bonus damage when using a two-handed weapon.

[SandyAndy]

I typically let people reflavor weapons in alllll sorts of ways. The actual type of weapon a character uses is fluff in DnD, for the most part. If someone wants a dagger to be one half of a broken pair of scissors, sure go for it.

Does that mean my 5th grader rouge could dual wield the 2 halves of a broken pair of scissors?

[JNAProductions]

I agree with you, GWF style is underpowered and hard to evaluate. I'd pull from past editions and houserule it to double the strength bonus damage when using a two-handed weapon.

That'd be +5 damage at level 8.

I agree that GWF could use some work, but it shouldn't take the king of damage dealing and make it significantly better.

[Magic Myrmidon]

Does that mean my 5th grader rouge could dual wield the 2 halves of a broken pair of scissors?

Sure, that'd be super cool for that sort of setting, actually.

[greenstone]

Having a greataxe use one damage die instead of two helps encourage the trope of "barbarians and axes."

I always visualise it that if you hit with a sword, where you hit is not that important, as long as it is on the blade somewhere. The 2d6 damage means you are more likely to do damage in the middle and less likely (1/36) to do minimum. The damage is more reliable. On the other hand, you are less likely to do maximum.

With an axe, you have to hit with the right part of the weapon. If you over- or under-reach, you miss with the head and hit with the haft, doing much less damage. In game, the 1d12 damage is less reliable. There's more chance of maximum (1/12 instead of 1/36) but also more chance of minimum.