Devotion Paladin, Fey Touched spell choice

[Havlock]

Howdy folks. This is your friendly neighborhood devotion pal who happens to have an odd charisma stat, hoping to get your thoughts on the Fey Touched feat.

Sure, Hex is a nice spell but I have so many good concentration spells already .. I'm honestly thinking about taking Bless and thinking of it as an extra 1st level spell slot.

Am I loosing my mind?

[Salmon343]

Hunter's mark is an option that might gel with the theming better than Hex, though its also concentration. If you want a non-con option, there's Gift of Alacrity.

Don't forget that you can cast the Fey Touched spells once per day for free, so even if you treat it as an extra spell known by going for Bless, its still an extra spell slot if you use it for something you'll cast every day. (Which Gift of Alacrity is great for!)

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells?filter-class=0&filter-search=&filter-level=1&filter-school=5&filter-school=6&filter-verbal=&filter-somatic=&filter-material=&filter-concentration=2&filter-ritual=&filter-sub-class=

Looks like 1st level divinations and enchantments that don't require concentration would be:

Animal Friendship
Charm Person
Command
Comprehend Languages
Dissonant Whispers
Gift of Alacrity
Identify
Sleep
Speak with Animals

[Havlock]

Appreciate the list of non-concentrations spells but thats not really what I'm asking. Let me try to rephrase it...

Common wisdom would say that the smart choice is to select a useful spell that you don't have on your spell lists. For a goody goody paladin, that means Hex, Charm Person, Tasha's Laughter or the ilk. All good spells.

My question is, are any of those options in your opinion, better than a +1/day Bless (which we of course already have on our spell list). I don't think they are. But it feels wrong not to expand my spell list. I'm torn. Optimization says take Hex... but this might be a case where more options aren't necessarily better.

[Asmerv]

I think the answer partially depends on how often you go completely out of gas. Do you find yourself going through all of your spellslots most days? If so, Bless might be a good option.

However, in the end it amounts to an extra 9 damage, 18 if you crit. While that's nice I think I'd find myself wanting to add a new capability instead.

Gift of Alacrity is a worthwhile spell, and could be much more impactful than some extra damage if it allows your battlefield controller to go first and land a big spell before the enemy gets to go. You will never not want to cast it, so the 1/day free cast is never wasted either. In situations where you all want to gain the upper hand like an ambush, you can distribute it to multiple people as well. I think it's a strong contender.

Dissonant Whispers could also be cool. It can trigger opportunity attacks and do a surprising amount of damage that way while still providing some control and utility.

I wouldn't personally pick Hex, but if you see a lot of mooks to clean up in an easy fight maybe you'd appreciate the extra damage.

My vote would be Gift of Alacrity.

[Salmon343]

Appreciate the list of non-concentrations spells but thats not really what I'm asking. Let me try to rephrase it...

Common wisdom would say that the smart choice is to select a useful spell that you don't have on your spell lists. For a goody goody paladin, that means Hex, Charm Person, Tasha's Laughter or the ilk. All good spells.

My question is, are any of those options in your opinion, better than a +1/day Bless (which we of course already have on our spell list). I don't think they are. But it feels wrong not to expand my spell list. I'm torn. Optimization says take Hex... but this might be a case where more options aren't necessarily better.
I don't think optimisation means that it has to be a spell not on your spell list. Such a spell does have an advantage, as it increases your variety of available spells, but its a balancing act between variety and usability. There's no point picking a spell that you'd rarely cast over one that you'd get a lot of usage out of, unless the spell is massively useful for those rare times it does get used.

I'd suggest going with what feels most useful, as that's actually what's most optimal. It's your choice as to whether that's something novel that brings variety, or something reliable - but ultimately, the whole optimisation thing is all based on how you build and play your character, so doesn't require you to go one way or the other.

In terms of variety versus reliability, I'll happily recommend Gift of Alacrity again. Not only is it not a class spell so it expands your options, its a really good spell - functionally plus 2.5 to initiative, and striking first is very important, especially if your paladin happens to steer towards the tank role. That, and Hex/Hunter's Mark, are the only options that I think beat out 1/day hex. This is party dependent, if you don't have someone who can Speak with Animals, Identify, etc., then it may be worth picking that up if you've been feeling that loss as a party. But that's very niche.

[diplomancer]

I don't think optimisation means that it has to be a spell not on your spell list. Such a spell does have an advantage, as it increases your variety of available spells, but its a balancing act between variety and usability. There's no point picking a spell that you'd rarely cast over one that you'd get a lot of usage out of, unless the spell is massively useful for those rare times it does get used.

I'd suggest going with what feels most useful, as that's actually what's most optimal. It's your choice as to whether that's something novel that brings variety, or something reliable - but ultimately, the whole optimisation thing is all based on how you build and play your character, so doesn't require you to go one way or the other.

In terms of variety versus reliability, I'll happily recommend Gift of Alacrity again. Not only is it not a class spell so it expands your options, its a really good spell - functionally plus 2.5 to initiative, and striking first is very important, especially if your paladin happens to steer towards the tank role. That, and Hex/Hunter's Mark, are the only options that I think beat out 1/day hex. This is party dependent, if you don't have someone who can Speak with Animals, Identify, etc., then it may be worth picking that up if you've been feeling that loss as a party. But that's very niche.

Gift of Alacrity for sure, if your DM allows it; spell is crazy (it's a +4.5- 1d8- to Initiative, by the way). If he does not (it's an explicitly optional spell, after all), then all mentioned options are decent. I will suggest an odd option for your consideration: Sleep. Yes, I know, doesn't scale well. But that's only true if we are talking about level-appropriate combat encounters. Specially as a Devotion Paladin, I can easily see non-combat situations when you might not want to attack someone, but putting them to Sleep might be a reasonable option.

I would NOT take Hex or Hunter's Mark; Paladins are so good at damage that the extra 1d6 per attack is not worth your concentration, I believe. Hex's debuff ability may be worth it if you like grappling/shoving, though, so you might take it for that reason, and have the damage as a nice bonus

[Salmon343]

Gift of Alacrity for sure, if your DM allows it; spell is crazy (it's a +4.5- 1d8- to Initiative, by the way) ...
This is true, my quick maths was well off, +4.5 to initiative. Almost as good as having max dex or Alert, for a gameplay comparison.

[Segev]

I'm seeing gift of alacrity being listed as a "chronurgy wizard" spell. Is it actually restricted to the subclass, only, or is it a wizard spell in general? If it is restricted to the subclass, how is that indicated in the book it's printed in?

[stoutstien]

Dissonant whispers would be my vote of you have a half decent save DC. Usually it only needs 1-2 allies to take advantage of the AOO to make it worth while and the soft CC is always nice.

[Salmon343]

I'm seeing gift of alacrity being listed as a "chronurgy wizard" spell. Is it actually restricted to the subclass, only, or is it a wizard spell in general? If it is restricted to the subclass, how is that indicated in the book it's printed in?

It's a bit weirder - it's a spell that belongs to the Dunamancy spell list, introduced in Explorer's Guide to Wildemout. The spells are specifically available to the Chronurgist and Graviturgist wizard subclasses, and are only available to other spellcasters at the DM's consent. (So functionally it's Chronurgist/Graviturgist only, but that restriction isn't actually baked into the subclass - its baked into the spell list.)

Note that Dunamancy doesn't really count as a magic school - all the Dunamancy spells introduced so far belong to one of the normal schools of magic. Fey Touched says nothing about the spell list and only asks about the spell school, so there should be no issue in taking Gift of Alacrity as its a Divination school spell.

Also note that the wording is really unclear when the spells are introduced. Gift of Alacrity has an extra Chronurgy tag in the spell list (some spells have Chronurgy tags, some have Graviturgy tags, some have neither), which would imply that only Chronurgists can learn it, but it's never specified that this is what the tag actually means...

[LudicSavant]

Howdy folks. This is your friendly neighborhood devotion pal who happens to have an odd charisma stat, hoping to get your thoughts on the Fey Touched feat.

Sure, Hex is a nice spell but I have so many good concentration spells already .. I'm honestly thinking about taking Bless and thinking of it as an extra 1st level spell slot.

Am I loosing my mind?

Appreciate the list of non-concentrations spells but thats not really what I'm asking. Let me try to rephrase it...

Common wisdom would say that the smart choice is to select a useful spell that you don't have on your spell lists. For a goody goody paladin, that means Hex, Charm Person, Tasha's Laughter or the ilk. All good spells.

My question is, are any of those options in your opinion, better than a +1/day Bless (which we of course already have on our spell list). I don't think they are. But it feels wrong not to expand my spell list. I'm torn. Optimization says take Hex... but this might be a case where more options aren't necessarily better.

You're not losing your mind. It is more important for a spell to be something you want to spend the slot on, than for it to be something that expands your spells known list.

Hex is a good choice, but so is Bless. Which is actually best will depend on variables like party composition, playstyle, the particulars of your build, etc.

Gift of Alacrity is a particularly strong choice, especially if you want to avoid Concentration.

[diplomancer]

I'm seeing gift of alacrity being listed as a "chronurgy wizard" spell. Is it actually restricted to the subclass, only, or is it a wizard spell in general? If it is restricted to the subclass, how is that indicated in the book it's printed in?

Like this:


Dunamancy spells are readily available to the wizard subclasses in this chapter and should not be simply added to the full spell lists of other spellcasting classes. However, the Dungeon Master can consider allowing other spellcasting classes opportunities throughout the campaign to learn a handful of dunamancy-themed spells as rewards. Perhaps the characters uncover a cache of magical contraband, among which is a couple of spell scrolls, or a traveling acolyte takes some downtime with a friendly cleric character and opens their mind to some of the stranger secrets of the universe, unlocking a spell or two. There are many unique ways to bring these spells into your game without requiring any specific dunamis-wielding subclasses to be present in the adventuring party.

[Keravath]

Personally, I'd say the extra 1/day casting of bless isn't worth the 1st level spell choice of Fey Touched. You can already cast bless. By level 5, you have 4 first level slots you can use to cast bless. Perhaps you find those all going to smites but in that case you don't seem to be prioritizing the benefits of bless over damage anyway.

I'd tend to choose a spell that expands the repertoire of what you can do as opposed to adding a 1/day casting of a spell you already have but ultimately its up to you.

[Segev]

Personally, I'd say the extra 1/day casting of bless isn't worth the 1st level spell choice of Fey Touched. You can already cast bless. By level 5, you have 4 first level slots you can use to cast bless. Perhaps you find those all going to smites but in that case you don't seem to be prioritizing the benefits of bless over damage anyway.

I'd tend to choose a spell that expands the repertoire of what you can do as opposed to adding a 1/day casting of a spell you already have but ultimately its up to you.

It's not JUST +1 spell slot, though. It's also +1 spell prepared. If he's preparing bless a lot, taking it via this feat means he has one more spell-prepared available.

[LudicSavant]

It's not JUST +1 spell slot, though. It's also +1 spell prepared. If he's preparing bless a lot, taking it via this feat means he has one more spell-prepared available.

Indeed!

Taking Bless doesn't mean you have fewer spells prepared than if you take Hex, it means that your extra spell prepared will be a Paladin spell of your choice.

If you want to use Bless at least once a day, and don't like Hex more than all the other Paladin spells, then Bless is a perfectly good choice for Fey-Touched.

[Garimeth]

FWIW, I think bless is a SOLID choice. The paladin/warlock MC in my current game basically only uses their warlock slots for bless and Faerie fire. Nobody in the party every complained about being blessed. Even better if you have rogues or GWM characters in party.

[Havlock]

FWIW, I think bless is a SOLID choice. The paladin/warlock MC in my current game basically only uses their warlock slots for bless and Faerie fire. Nobody in the party every complained about being blessed. Even better if you have rogues or GWM characters in party.

The rest of the party composition is still TBD but if I know my table, and I think I do, we'll probably have a rogue and a GWM and a sharpshooter lol.

Thanks everyone. Great feedback all around

[Mikal]

May be late to the party but gift of alacrity from Wildemounte would be great.
8 hour duration, adds 1d8 to Init which Paladins aren’t usually great at.

And you’d be able to provide it to others as well

[Garimeth]

The rest of the party composition is still TBD but if I know my table, and I think I do, we'll probably have a rogue and a GWM and a sharpshooter lol.

Thanks everyone. Great feedback all around

Dude that's a great comp for Blessing. The spell greatly reduces the penalty of the GSM and SS (and gives save bonuses) and the rogue missing a sneak attack tanks their DPR, and just feels bad.