Is this player in the wrong campaign?

[Atarax]

I'm running a campaign that mimics old school dnd. Xp comes a lot slower because there is a large dungeon with many monsters. We've been playing once a month skipping December (holidays) for about five years. Probably 10x a year. So leveling up happens pretty rarely. Just messaged a player saying I'm really excited about their sorcerer getting access to 2nd level spells. I rarely ever message them. Response was "didn't even remember I had to level up".

I see that almost like "super excited about our plans this weekend" getting "forgot we were even hanging out". Even if it's true, (I could understand how this could happen, I guess) I almost feel like answering my excitement with "meh" is sort of making a statement.

P.S. Please don't advise me "talk to your players". I'm asking here to hear how other DM's would interpret this. Thanks!

[Remuko]

I'm running a campaign that mimics old school dnd. Xp comes a lot slower because there is a large dungeon with many monsters. We've been playing once a month skipping December (holidays) for about five years. Probably 10x a year. So leveling up happens pretty rarely. Just messaged a player saying I'm really excited about their sorcerer getting access to 2nd level spells. I rarely ever message them. Response was "didn't even remember I had to level up".

I see that almost like "super excited about our plans this weekend" getting "forgot we were even hanging out". Even if it's true, (I could understand how this could happen, I guess) I almost feel like answering my excitement with "meh" is sort of making a statement.

P.S. Please don't advise me "talk to your players". I'm asking here to hear how other DM's would interpret this. Thanks!

forgetting to level up, imo is a very normal thing, especially since you guys seem to play so rarely and level up even more rarely. i know people who play weekly and level up maybe once a month or more and they still forget. i think youre reading way too much into it.

[Fizban]

If they've been playing for five years with nothing but 1st level spells, they've been playing for five years with nothing but 1st level spells, all 2-3 of them that they have. As a Sorcerer they don't get 2nd level spells- they get second level spell, as in one. Not a wizard to salivate over all the scrolls and spellbooks they could totally loot if they found them, not a cleric or druid with a responsibility to understand an entire list of dozens of spells suddenly unlocked all at once. A sorcerer, with one new spell.

If it is acceptable in any way for any of your players to have forgotten about leveling up, which by your admission that it's rare suggests you are aware is a likely occurrence, then there is no special shame in the sorcerer's player forgetting to level up just because they're a spellcaster and you expect them to be giddy about finally getting a new spell. Would you question the fighter if you said you were excited about their new feat and they'd forgot it was finally time to level up? A low-level sorcerer has pretty much exactly the same number of options- actually even less options than a human fighter (1st level feat, human bonus, fighter bonus, fighter 2 bonus, fighter 4 bonus, that's 5 feats, vs the sorcerer's 3 first level spells, unless cantrips in your game are amazing).

You can play a slow game but at a maximum of 3 levels over 5 years, can you really blame them for not thinking about leveling up?


Furthermore, if the answer of what spell they're going to take was not already abundantly obvious due to the character's personality (in which case leveling up will take all of 30 seconds to update flat numbers and write the name of the spell), then having exactly one new spell for the next year and half of gameplay, is the epitome of inspiration for decision paralysis.

[H_H_F_F]

Don't worry. No one stays in a 5 year campaign if they're not having fun.

Not all players are mechanically minded. My players aren't super mechanically minded, but they ask "did we level up?" pretty much after every session (we're playing with milestones, which usually come around every 3-6 sessions.) They're doing that because it's a semi-regular dopamine hit. Your players get this experience less than once a year, so it'll only be on their mind if they're very mechanically minded - and such players would probably be far more likely to get bored or frustrated with a campaign in which mechanical change is so rare.

Your player is having fun. They don't care about the same things you do. To take your analogy, it's more like a friend of mine asking me if I'm excited about the Sushi we're making saturday. I'm not - I forgot we were making sushi. I'm just excited about hanging out with them.

[Max Caysey]

I'm running a campaign that mimics old school dnd. Xp comes a lot slower because there is a large dungeon with many monsters. We've been playing once a month skipping December (holidays) for about five years. Probably 10x a year. So leveling up happens pretty rarely. Just messaged a player saying I'm really excited about their sorcerer getting access to 2nd level spells. I rarely ever message them. Response was "didn't even remember I had to level up".

I see that almost like "super excited about our plans this weekend" getting "forgot we were even hanging out". Even if it's true, (I could understand how this could happen, I guess) I almost feel like answering my excitement with "meh" is sort of making a statement.

P.S. Please don't advise me "talk to your players". I'm asking here to hear how other DM's would interpret this. Thanks!

So let me get this straight, you guys have had 50 sessions and yes are only level 3??? That blows my mind! I am fully aware that there is no right or wrong way to play, but I can’t imagine anyone playing an RPG, who does not want progression at a faster rate than this...

With that out of the way, my interpretation would be that the player does not care about leveling up, possible because the player had given up on the whole concept of the game progressing, or simple don’t care about the character... or maybe you provide so fulfilling narrative and story that advancing in level, is not important... but that’s not classic DND, that’s vampire or Cthulhu IMO. I have personally never met a DM like that, so I would tend to believe the former!

[Quertus]

So, in another 35 years, you might finally reach epic?

[MoiMagnus]

If you manage to keep players interested with a D&D game that slow in term of level up, chances are that you are your sessions are interesting enough by themselves for level up to be fully unnecessary. The fun in your campaign seems to be in playing, not in progressing. As such, I'm not surprised that a player might not care about changes like having access to new spells, as it will probably not make the session "better", just slightly different.

Especially if they already played D&D at mid or high level, in which case unlocking 2nd level spell is still "not that big of a deal" for them (the jump from 2nd level to 3rd level is already much more significant).

[Fizban]

So let me get this straight, you guys have had 50 sessions and yes are only level 3???
At 13.3 encounters of equal level per level, and they're hitting level 4, that's a little less than one encounter per session. Considering how difficult I've found it to get my groups where half the players considered themselves gung-ho gamers, to finish even two encounters per session in 3-4 hours. . . it's not actually that surprising. Throw in an occasional roleplaying session that doesn't end up having a combat, and there you are.

[Atarax]

If they've been playing for five years with nothing but 1st level spells, they've been playing for five years with nothing but 1st level spells, all 2-3 of them that they have. As a Sorcerer they don't get 2nd level spells- they get second level spell, as in one. Not a wizard to salivate over all the scrolls and spellbooks they could totally loot if they found them, not a cleric or druid with a responsibility to understand an entire list of dozens of spells suddenly unlocked all at once. A sorcerer, with one new spell.

If it is acceptable in any way for any of your players to have forgotten about leveling up, which by your admission that it's rare suggests you are aware is a likely occurrence, then there is no special shame in the sorcerer's player forgetting to level up just because they're a spellcaster and you expect them to be giddy about finally getting a new spell. Would you question the fighter if you said you were excited about their new feat and they'd forgot it was finally time to level up? A low-level sorcerer has pretty much exactly the same number of options- actually even less options than a human fighter (1st level feat, human bonus, fighter bonus, fighter 2 bonus, fighter 4 bonus, that's 5 feats, vs the sorcerer's 3 first level spells, unless cantrips in your game are amazing).

You can play a slow game but at a maximum of 3 levels over 5 years, can you really blame them for not thinking about leveling up?


Furthermore, if the answer of what spell they're going to take was not already abundantly obvious due to the character's personality (in which case leveling up will take all of 30 seconds to update flat numbers and write the name of the spell), then having exactly one new spell for the next year and half of gameplay, is the epitome of inspiration for decision paralysis.

I didn't ask who was to blame. And if you're looking at me for the slowness of level progression, look again. I'd LOVE to play more often. I oversimplified the situation by calling it 10x a year for 5 years. Really, it's been longer with some years having only 4 sessions. Then I said I was done for a year or more because of the fact that they were so busy. Then they told me they were less busy and they'd like to play again. We've played 31 sessions. When I started this module (The Lost City of Barakus which halves XP to create a 1e feel), we had agreed to play every other week. Also, it's now a 6 person party. By all accounts, this is a good adventure. I mean, it won an Ennie.

[Atarax]

At 13.3 encounters of equal level per level, and they're hitting level 4, that's a little less than one encounter per session. Considering how difficult I've found it to get my groups where half the players considered themselves gung-ho gamers, to finish even two encounters per session in 3-4 hours. . . it's not actually that surprising. Throw in an occasional roleplaying session that doesn't end up having a combat, and there you are.

I simplified things by saying 10x a year for five years. It's been since 2014 and it's actually been less than 10x a year. Plus we stopped for a full year and a half in there. We have played exactly 31 sessions. They (a 6 member party) have gained just over 6,000 xp each. As suggested in the module, I have halved all xp earned to keep things balanced for an old school feel.

[Elkad]

At 13.3 encounters of equal level per level...

Which is insanely fast compared to earlier editions.

I slow my groups down as well.

I've used half xp a lot. Current game is even worse.

[KillianHawkeye]

forgetting to level up, imo is a very normal thing, especially since you guys seem to play so rarely and level up even more rarely. i know people who play weekly and level up maybe once a month or more and they still forget. i think youre reading way too much into it.

I agree with Remuko 100%. I often forget to level up if I don't do it right away after the game session, and I play on a regular basis.

[NotInventedHere]

As a DM currently running a once-a-week campaign, my players forget about levelling up *constantly*. Even when there have been several messages in the group chat explicitly reminding them to pick their level-up stuff between sessions. People are just like that a lot of the time. Especially these days. We're all a bit overwhelmed and a bit burnt out.

[Zanos]

I'll just throw my hat in the ring that even in weekly games I love sometimes I forget to level up because it just slips my mind.

I will add that if a game only ran once a month and i had been playing it for five years and hadn't leveled up, it wouldn't be for me. Character progression is one of the things I enjoy. And I don't really understand how playing in a large dungeon with a lot of monsters results in a slower leveling rate. If anything I would think that would make combat frequent. Maybe that isn't a problem for your players, but if he's been playing your game for five years I doubt it bothers him.

[Atarax]

I'll just throw my hat in the ring that even in weekly games I love sometimes I forget to level up because it just slips my mind.

I will add that if a game only ran once a month and i had been playing it for five years and hadn't leveled up, it wouldn't be for me. Character progression is one of the things I enjoy. And I don't really understand how playing in a large dungeon with a lot of monsters results in a slower leveling rate. If anything I would think that would make combat frequent. Maybe that isn't a problem for your players, but if he's been playing your game for five years I doubt it bothers him.

Fair enough. If you have a large enough dungeon level of baddies, the players will level up before they've cleared it. Especially with side quests back in and around town. So the module cuts xp in half to maintain scope and to emulate older editions.

[Atarax]

So, in another 35 years, you might finally reach epic?

Dice willing. Also, I should probably quit smoking and stop eating like a frat boy so I'll be around.

[Atarax]

So let me get this straight, you guys have had 50 sessions and yes are only level 3??? That blows my mind! I am fully aware that there is no right or wrong way to play, but I can’t imagine anyone playing an RPG, who does not want progression at a faster rate than this...

With that out of the way, my interpretation would be that the player does not care about leveling up, possible because the player had given up on the whole concept of the game progressing, or simple don’t care about the character... or maybe you provide so fulfilling narrative and story that advancing in level, is not important... but that’s not classic DND, that’s vampire or Cthulhu IMO. I have personally never met a DM like that, so I would tend to believe the former!

It's a long story. We've actually only played 31 sessions. It's a sandbox with lots of side quests and a big, multi-level dungeon. They've spent a lot of time around the city doing low xp stuff. Old editions weren't slower to level? Not sure I buy that. I've read lots of stories about 2e campaigns where groups spent decades getting to level 20.

[Particle_Man]

Also, without getting into details, the player might have been distracted by non-gaming events that have happened in the past year or so.

[Atarax]

Also, without getting into details, the player might have been distracted by non-gaming events that have happened in the past year or so.

Couldn't possibly be. 2020 was such a normal, peaceful year lol

[Max Caysey]

I simplified things by saying 10x a year for five years. It's been since 2014 and it's actually been less than 10x a year. Plus we stopped for a full year and a half in there. We have played exactly 31 sessions. They (a 6 member party) have gained just over 6,000 xp each. As suggested in the module, I have halved all xp earned to keep things balanced for an old school feel.

200 exp per session that’s nothing. So they spend 3-4 hours killing a few goblins? Do they never fights level appropriate monsters? Something tells me your calculating their exp wrong..... 200 exp we usually get per creature we kill...gaining about 1k per session.

If you guys have fun great! I’m just really surprised by the way you guys play. Maybe you could tell some more about what characters were in the party, what they face, how the play? What module you play, why you don’t give the quest exp etc... It would be super interesting! 😊

Edit: Found the module! Have you remembered to increase the amount of enemies? The module The Lost City of Barakus, is designed for 4 characters, if you don’t increase the number of enemies they don’t get the correct amount of exp... the module itself reduces exp because a large dungeon levels characters fast... also the module says the 50% exp reduction is optional... you could just give them normal exp!

Edit 2: the wererat warren encounter alone yields 7650 exp before reduction. With reduction that’s still 956 exp... per character (for a 4 man team). You being 6 should result in you increasing the number of enemies by 50%, so as to yield the same amount of challenge and exp as if you have been 4.

As I’ve said there’s no wrong or right way to play, I’m just genuinely interested/ surprised 😊

[Faily]

In other games I've played in/run that only have a few sessions a year (one would have us meeting only once a year maybe but then people would sleep over and we'd do a two-day intense gameplay weekend), XP rewards have usually been more frequent and bigger so that players can actually see progression and growth in their character.

If everyone's fine with a slow progression, and the player just legit forgot because as others point out it's something that can easily slip someone's mind (and I've seen it happen too, even without 2020's situation), then I wouldn't worry too much about it.

But if the players feel that they'll have to play for 10 years just to get a sniff at their first Feat beyond starting-level or a new spell level, and that it is also making them having less fun, then you might need to consider changing things up a bit. But again, if everyone's fine with it and having a good time, then I don't see a need to worry.