Shapechange updated to have the polymorph subschool - common knowledge?

[Aharon]

While going through the Rules Compendium, I just noticed that it revised Shapechange so it now has the polymorph subschool - was this widely known?
It effects a lot of high-op stuff relying on shapechange, since this way, it disallows casting when in an assumed form.

[Darg]

It depends on how you read the text about spell text taking priority. Other polymorph spells are neutered because of the subschool, but alter self has specific text that removes any neutering. One can say that because the statblock has been swapped there is nothing to "retain," but no one likes being nerfed. I generally have the non-hostile polymorph spells follow the rules of polymorph, whether I use the subschool as priority or not.

[Zanos]

It doesn't do much, because of this:

Unless otherwise noted in the spell’s description, the target of a polymorph spell takes on all the statistics and special abilities of an average member of the assumed form in place of its own except as follows.

Your class and level, hit points, alignment, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses all remain the same. You retain all supernatural and spell-like special attacks and qualities of your normal form, except for those requiring a body part that the new form does not have (such as a mouth for a breath weapon or eyes for a gaze attack)...
You keep all extraordinary special attacks and qualities derived from class levels, but you lose any from your normal form that are not derived from class levels...
You retain any spellcasting ability you had in your original form, but the new form must be able to speak intelligibly (that is, speak a language) to use verbal components and must have limbs capable of fine manipulation to use somatic or material components.
So because Polymorph sub-school spells cause you to lose class features, but Alter Self which is inherited by the other 'original' polymorphing spells gets an explicit exemption in its own text, it doesn't matter.

[Crake]

Yeah, adding the polymorph subschool to the phb spells doesn't actually change their function in any way, because their text is already explicit about what you gain/lose, and it takes precedence over the rules set by the subschool. That is intentional.

[Gruftzwerg]

While going through the Rules Compendium, I just noticed that it revised Shapechange so it now has the polymorph subschool - was this widely known?
It effects a lot of high-op stuff relying on shapechange, since this way, it disallows casting when in an assumed form.

What do you mean it has now the polymorph subschool? I don't see any reason/indicator why it should?

[hamishspence]

It is a spell that "functions like polymorph, except..." and differences are described:

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shapechange.htm

Why wouldn't it have the polymorph subschool, once that subschool is introduced?

[Gruftzwerg]

It is a spell that "functions like polymorph, except..." and differences are described:

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shapechange.htm

Why wouldn't it have the polymorph subschool, once that subschool is introduced?

What Crake said:


Spells That Have Come Before

For the purpose of adjudicating effects that apply to polymorph spells, any spell whose effect is based on either alter self or polymorph should be considered to have the polymorph subschool. However, note that the spells' existing rules text takes priority over that of the subschool. Alter self, for instance, does not change the target's ability scores (unlike normal for spells of the polymorph subschool).
The existing older spells are already explicit about what you gain and lose and thus leaves no room for the subschool to make any changes.

[Aharon]

Thank you, I hadn't remembered that some previous spells were excluded!

[hamishspence]

The existing older spells are already explicit about what you gain and lose and thus leaves no room for the subschool to make any changes.

True - but that doesn't change the fact that the spells are of the subschool, even if it may make no mechanical difference.

[Gruftzwerg]

True - but that doesn't change the fact that the spells are of the subschool, even if it may make no mechanical difference.

also true^^