Sword of the arcane order build help

[cartejos]

Ranger 5/Wizard 1/Ranger +1/Geomancer 10/Ruathar 3

This was my idea so far
Illumian for Bonus to CL and either bonus to dex checks (initiative) or Naenkrau for bonuses to DCs

ACFs:
Ranger: Mystic Ranger, Shooting Star, Wild Shape
Wizard: Generalist with Eidetic Casting

Feat selection was looking like Zen Archery, Enhanced power sigils, sword of the arcane order, and natural spell

Im open for other prestige class options or feats, this was just a rough idea, no specific role in mind as the party is pretty well covered in all of their bases leaving me open for a fun build. Cheese has been deemed okay with DM permission. They usually allow cheese that will help pull a build together but doesnt bring the game into TO territory

[ThanatosZero]

Before you go with this sort of build, ask your DM if he allows a properly edited version of SotAO.
The original had zero clarifications, like the question, if wizard spells prepared on Paladin/Ranger spellslots are cast as either divine or arcane spells or if the feat makes the paladins/rangers to arcane casters.

Also ACF and variant classes can give away their class features only once. A Mystic Ranger already forsakes their animal companion, therefore they cannot give it away a second time to attain wild shape.

Now without further addo, the revised feat.


Sword of the Arcane Order V2.0
[General]
Members of your military order have a special connection with arcane magic.

Prerequisite
Paladin 4th of Azuth or Mystra, or ranger 4th of Mystra; member of the Knights of the Mystic Fire (see page 102), the Order of the Shooting Star (see Knights of the Mystic Fire, page 102), or the Swords of the High One (see page 104),

Benefit
You can use your paladin and ranger spell slots to prepare wizard spells and are cast as arcane spells (you still suffer arcane spell failure). You must have a minimum Intelligence score of 10 + the spell's level to prepare it, and the save DC of the spell is equal to 10 + your Int modifi er (as if you were a wizard).

These wizard spells can be taken either from your spellbook (if you have one) or from another character's spellbook (though in the latter case you must decipher the writing in the book and succeed on a Spellcraft check to prepare the spell, just as a wizard using a borrowed spellbook; see Wizard Spells and Borrowed Spellbooks, page 178 of the Player's Handbook, for details).

If you also have levels in wizard, your wizard caster level and arcane spells prepared in is treated as the sum of your wizard, paladin, and ranger class levels. Otherwise your caster level for arcane spells is equal to your paladin and ranger levels. Also, the paladin and ranger classes with this feat are now treated as arcane casters.

If a Paladin/Ranger with this feat takes a prestige class, which advances arcane spellcasting classes, it also advances their spells per day and their caster levels for divine spells as normal as in Paladin/Ranger. The caster level for arcane spells is advanced fully by Paladin/Ranger levels plus the arcane caster spellcasting progression granted by the prestige class.

Special
Azuth has a paladin order called the Swords of the High One. Mystra has a paladin order called the Knights of the Mystic Fire and a closely allied group of rangers called the Order of the Shooting Star. Members of all three of these groups can select this feat as long as they are at least 4th level in their respective order's primary class.

Also here one of my old builds on discord for character optimization. It containx a metamagic feat from dragon magazine issue 325.
It converts prepared spells to either arcane by a divine caster or to divine by a arcane caster for the price of -1 reduced caster level. Also for to obtain the feat, you must be able to cast divine and arcane spells, meaning that one has to multiclass.


32pb human

Mystic Ranger 1/Wizard 1/Mystic Ranger +2 (3)/Shooting Star (Mystic Ranger) +1 (4)/Mystic Ranger +8 (13)/Arcane Hierophant 7

Str: 14
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 14 -> 16
Wis: 14 -> 17
Cha: 10

1. Mystic Ranger (Exotic Weapon Profiency: Chain, Combat Expertise)
2. Wizard
3. Mystic Ranger (Combat Style: Two Weapon Combat, Alternate Source Spell)
4. Shooting Star (Mystic Ranger) (+1 INT)
5. Mystic Ranger
6. Mystic Ranger (Sword of Arcane Order)
7. Mystic Ranger
8. Mystic Ranger (+1 WIS)
9. Mystic Ranger (Improved Trip)
10. Mystic Ranger
11. Mystic Ranger
12. Mystic Ranger (+1 INT, feat)
13. Mystic Ranger
14. Mystic Ranger
15. Arcane Hierophant (feat)
16. Arcane Hierophant (+1 WIS)
17. Arcane Hierophant
18. Arcane Hierophant (feat)
19. Arcane Hierophant
20. Arcane Hierophant (+1 WIS)

BAB 17 (with Fractional rules BAB 18), 19/20 Mystic Ranger spellcasting, 7/20 Wizard Spellcasting and Wizard CL 20.

[Darg]

Arcane spellcasting failure chance is tied to being an arcane caster according to the PHB. Making ranger and paladin give up a major benefit just to cast a few spells at half caster levels is petty.

To the OP, because mystic ranger doesn't remove the half caster levels I suggest taking shooting star substitution level at level 4 for the extra +3 caster levels. If you improve your wizard levels through your PrCs you get to increase the caster level of your ranger side by the same amount even though it won't help your spell slots.

[ThanatosZero]

Arcane spellcasting failure chance is tied to being an arcane caster according to the PHB. Making ranger and paladin give up a major benefit just to cast a few spells at half caster levels is petty.

Not as a Mystic Ranger though, their CL isn't halved.
Also Wizard levels increase CL as a whole, when the Shooting Star/Mystic Fire Knight substitution levels are chosen.

Shooting Star (Ranger) or Mystic Fire Knight (Paladin) 12/Wizard 8
With Practiced Spellcaster on the half-casting side we have CL 20 and Wizard side CL 20.

[liquidformat]

A Mystic Ranger already forsakes their animal companion, therefore they cannot give it away a second time to attain wild shape.
Please read ACFs before commenting on them the wild shape ranger variant (Predator (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger)) replaces combat style, improved combat style, and combat style master. It leaves animal companion alone...

Also here one of my old builds on discord for character optimization. It containx a metamagic feat from dragon magazine issue 325.
It converts prepared spells to either arcane by a divine caster or to divine by a arcane caster for the price of -1 reduced caster level. Also for to obtain the feat, you must be able to cast divine and arcane spells, meaning that one has to multiclass.
Going into Arcane Hierophant is a great choice for the Ranger/wizard build, however, you must be a bamboo spirit Folk in order to enter since Trackless Step is a prereq for AH.

I like the following build:
Bamboo Spirit Folk Combat Immediate Magic Conjurer 1/Predator Shooting Star Mystic Ranger 5/Beastmaster 1/Arcane Hierophant 10
Fetas: Lvl 1 Knowledge Devotion (arcane), Improved Initiative (Combat Wiz), Lvl 3 Skill Focus (Handle Animal), Lvl 6 Sword of the Arcane Order, Lvl 9 Nature Spell, Lvl 12 , Lvl 15 , Lvl 18
Possible Feats: Nemesis, Darkstalker, Martial Study, Martial Stance, Shadow Blade, Companion Spellbond, Natural Bond, Spell Focus (Conjuration), Augment Summoning

[QUOTE=Darg;24948852]Arcane spellcasting failure chance is tied to being an arcane caster according to the PHB. Making ranger and paladin give up a major benefit just to cast a few spells at half caster levels is petty.

To the OP, because mystic ranger doesn't remove the half caster levels I suggest taking shooting star substitution level at level 4 for the extra +3 caster levels. If you improve your wizard levels through your PrCs you get to increase the caster level of your ranger side by the same amount even though it won't help your spell slots.
Even if you don't ever cast any wizard spells taking SotAO is worth it if you are taking shooting star or mystic fire ACLs. SotAO makes your arcane caster level you wizard level + ranger/paladin level; the improved casting ability of shooting star/mystic fire makes your caster level half your ranger (paladin) level + your arcane caster level +2. So by having both your ranger caster level = 1.5*ranger level + any actual wizard/arcane prc levels +2. even if you just went mystic ranger 19/wizard 1 that puts your ranger cl at 29 and arcane cl at 20

[ThanatosZero]

Please read ACFs before commenting on them the wild shape ranger variant (Predator (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger)) replaces combat style, improved combat style, and combat style master. It leaves animal companion alone...

Thank you for correcting me. Sometimes one's own memory plays tricks on one.

[Anthrowhale]

My understanding is that the concept here is something like "shapeshifting gish". Since Mystic Ranger spellcasting advancement is tepid at the higher levels, you might consider topping off with either Nature's Warrior or Warshaper and Practiced Spellcaster.

One concern with the build is BAB---you are losing 5 in total which will make actually hitting with all the natural weapons more difficult.

If you want a more powerful build, then something like:
Bard 1/Mystic Ranger (Shooting Star) 9/Sublime Chord 1/Fochlucan Lyrist 9 would give you BAB+18 with B 1/MR 18/SC 10 spell access and B 11/MR 17/SC 11 caster level which could be increased to B 15/MR 21/SC 15 via Practiced Spellcaster[Sublime Chord]. The feat 'Able Learner' or using of the retraining rules at every level will assist substantially in heavy skill prereqs for Fochlucan Lyrist.

[Gorthawar]

Thank you for correcting me. Sometimes one's own memory plays tricks on one.

Whilst the predator acf keeps the animal companion the shooting star lvl 4 substitution level actually does trade it away.

[Darg]

Not as a Mystic Ranger though, their CL isn't halved.
Also Wizard levels increase CL as a whole, when the Shooting Star/Mystic Fire Knight substitution levels are chosen.

Shooting Star (Ranger) or Mystic Fire Knight (Paladin) 12/Wizard 8
With Practiced Spellcaster on the half-casting side we have CL 20 and Wizard side CL 20.

Where does it say that? The class entry relies on the original Ranger features including the Ranger spells feature which states they get spells at half level. Is it simply because it is a variant class and the Ranger spellcasting class feature only mentions ranger level instead of mystic ranger level? If so, rogue variants can't use sneak attack.


Whilst the predator acf keeps the animal companion the shooting star lvl 4 substitution level actually does trade it away.

Predator is a variant class and can't be combined with Mystic ranger.

[ThanatosZero]

Where does it say that? The class entry relies on the original Ranger features including the Ranger spells feature which states they get spells at half level. Is it simply because it is a variant class and the Ranger spellcasting class feature only mentions ranger level instead of mystic ranger level? If so, rogue variants can't use sneak attack.
See Dragon#335 page 105.
Under class features, it never states that it has a caster level equal their Mystic Ranger levels. However both the fluff and the description strongly imply, that it is the case.
The strongest evidence however is found on the table for the Mystic Ranger.
It showcases two 0th level spells at level 1.

The PHB 1 says the following to Rangers at page 48.
Through 3rd level, a ranger has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, his caster level is one-half his ranger level.
A normal Ranger gains spellslots at level 4. The Mystic Ranger gains them at the start of their career.
Also all half-caster classes lack 0th level spellslots, while Bards and Duskblades have them with full CL.


Going into Arcane Hierophant is a great choice for the Ranger/wizard build, however, you must be a bamboo spirit Folk in order to enter since Trackless Step is a prereq for AH.

Another option for gaining Trackless Step, besides of magic items, is the Holt Warden prestige class from Complete Champion (see page 84).
It has Medium BAB, d6 HD, 4 skillpoints per level, good fortitude and will saves,
full spellcasting progression and access to Trackless Stepp at level 3, with Woodland Stride at level 2. And if Woodland Stride was already gained, you get a +10 bonus to your land speed.

It requires is being able to cast 3rd level divine spells and the spells from the Plant Domain, Entangle, Barkskin and Plant Growth, which all Rangers and Druids can cast. In addition 8 ranks in knowledge natur and 4 ranks in survival. The last special requirement is being accepted as a new Holt Warden and being a apprentice of a holt warden with 5 and more levels in the prestige class.

[liquidformat]

Predator is a variant class and can't be combined with Mystic ranger.
You are wrong a mystic ranger is still a ranger it isn't a whole new independent and separate class in and of itself. The only requirement that Predator has beyond being a ranger is removing Combat style, improved combat style, and combat style mastery. It doesn't even tie these features to a specific level (unlike Substitution Levels) it simply removes them and replaces them with Wild shape (as druid; Small or Medium animals only), and fast movement (as barbarian). Since Mystic ranger does have combat style progression it is, as a ranger, free to trade them away even if it is gaining them at a different level from the standard ranger.
Nowhere in any source does it say a variant class is a completely new class independent of the class it is a variant of.

See Dragon#335 page 105.
Under class features, it never states that it has a caster level equal their Mystic Ranger levels. However both the fluff and the description strongly imply, that it is the case.
The strongest evidence however is found on the table for the Mystic Ranger.
It showcases two 0th level spells at level 1.

The PHB 1 says the following to Rangers at page 48.
Through 3rd level, a ranger has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, his caster level is one-half his ranger level.
A normal Ranger gains spellslots at level 4. The Mystic Ranger gains them at the start of their career.
Also all half-caster classes lack 0th level spellslots, while Bards and Duskblades have them with full CL.



Another option for gaining Trackless Step, besides of magic items, is the Holt Warden prestige class from Complete Champion (see page 84).
It has Medium BAB, d6 HD, 4 skillpoints per level, good fortitude and will saves,
full spellcasting progression and access to Trackless Stepp at level 3, with Woodland Stride at level 2. And if Woodland Stride was already gained, you get a +10 bonus to your land speed.

It requires is being able to cast 3rd level divine spells and the spells from the Plant Domain, Entangle, Barkskin and Plant Growth, which all Rangers and Druids can cast. In addition 8 ranks in knowledge natur and 4 ranks in survival. The last special requirement is being accepted as a new Holt Warden and being a apprentice of a holt warden with 5 and more levels in the prestige class.
By RAW you still have CL as half your ranger level with min 1, sure RAI it makes sense your CL should be your ranger level but as stated that isn't the case.

Not as a Mystic Ranger though, their CL isn't halved.
Also Wizard levels increase CL as a whole, when the Shooting Star/Mystic Fire Knight substitution levels are chosen.

Shooting Star (Ranger) or Mystic Fire Knight (Paladin) 12/Wizard 8
With Practiced Spellcaster on the half-casting side we have CL 20 and Wizard side CL 20.
So shooting star and mystic fire knight give improved Spellcasting (CL = Ranger/paladin level/2+ arcane CL+ 2) Practiced Spellcaster give +4, in this case it is best to choose Practiced Spellcaster (wizard) which would be a total wizard CL = 12, ranger/paladin CL = 6+12+2 =20 .

If we use SotAO instead of Practiced Spellcaster Wizard caster level (Ranger/paladin level + wizard level) =12+8 = 20, paladin/ranger CL = 6 + 20 + 2 = 28. Note if Practiced Spellcaster isn't worth taking if you take SotAO with Shooting Star (Ranger) or Mystic Fire Knight (Paladin) since it specifically states 'This can't increase your caster level beyond your HD' so unless you dip another class/prc that looses caster levels it is pointless.

[Darg]

You are wrong a mystic ranger is still a ranger it isn't a whole new independent and separate class in and of itself. The only requirement that Predator has beyond being a ranger is removing Combat style, improved combat style, and combat style mastery. It doesn't even tie these features to a specific level (unlike Substitution Levels) it simply removes them and replaces them with Wild shape (as druid; Small or Medium animals only), and fast movement (as barbarian). Since Mystic ranger does have combat style progression it is, as a ranger, free to trade them away even if it is gaining them at a different level from the standard ranger.
Nowhere in any source does it say a variant class is a completely new class independent of the class it is a variant of.

You are supposed to treat them as separate classes and not combine the features.


Multiclassing And Variant Classes

Multiclassing between variants of the same class is a tricky subject. In cases where a single class offers a variety of paths (such as the totem barbarian or the monk fighting styles), the easiest solution is simply to bar multiclassing between different versions of the same class (just as a character can't multiclass between different versions of specialist wizards). For variants that are wholly separate from the character class—such as the bardic sage or the urban ranger—multiclassing, even into multiple variants of the same class, is probably okay. Identical class features should stack if gained from multiple versions of the same class (except for spellcasting, which is always separate).

In any case, only the first version of a favored class is treated as favored; a halfling rogue/wizard who later begins gaining levels in the wilderness rogue variant class can't treat both the rogue and wilderness rogue classes as favored, only the class gained first (in this case, rogue). Under no circumstances does spellcasting ability from multiple classes (even variants of the same class) stack. A character with levels of bard and levels of bardic sage has two separate caster levels and two separate sets of spells per day, even though the classes are very similar.

Combining the variants together would be like combining the features of a barbarian/fighter multiclass without multiclassing.

[ThanatosZero]

By RAW you still have CL as half your ranger level with min 1, sure RAI it makes sense your CL should be your ranger level but as stated that isn't the case.

We have to thank Erik Seligman for this vague description.

[Darg]

We have to thank Erik Seligman for this vague description.

I think half caster level is completely stupid as a concept for classes that already suffer late AND half progression. The only thing they get as compensation is full BAB. Who knew +1-5 BAB was worth so much.

In my games half caster level is not a thing, but it is a house rule so not every game I play follows that.

[liquidformat]

You are supposed to treat them as separate classes and not combine the features.



Combining the variants together would be like combining the features of a barbarian/fighter multiclass without multiclassing.

I am not convinced, it doesn't even address combining multiple variants together, whether they are class feature varriants, level substitutions, or class feature variants...

[Darg]

I am not convinced, it doesn't even address combining multiple variants together, whether they are class feature varriants, level substitutions, or class feature variants...

You have variant classes, alternate class features, and substitution levels. Variant classes are the class, but with different statistics. The point of a variant class is to make whole scale changes. They generally change class skills and overhaul class features and progression. What you are giving up in trade is the base class. You can't give up the base class twice. If you could, why not simply be a Mystic Ranger/Planewalker Ranger/Predator/Urban Ranger/Warrior Ranger/Wild Defender all in one?

Alternate class features trade one or several features for another. Pretty straight forward there. If you already gave it up, then you can't give it up again.

Substitution levels trade level ups and all the benefits it brings for a level up with different benefits.

[ThanatosZero]

As the PHB says, the Ranger lacks Caster levels from Level 1 up to 3. Because the author Erik missed out to clarify, his Mystic Ranger has at level 3 no caster level, but two 0th and two 1st level spells!

I strongly feel, that it was always his intention that a level in Mystic Ranger equals a full caster level.