Hunger of Hadar - what's your experience?

[Asmerv]

I am musing on potentially playing an Aberrant Mind sorcerer soon, potentially building around Hunger of Hadar but I'm worried I'll come away disappointed.

I was planning a single level of warlock to get eldritch blast, flavor it as a telekinetic push and grab repelling blast (we get a free feat)

What have your experiences been with this spell? It's big, difficult terrain, and imposes the blinded condition and feels like it would be powerful with repelling blast, but I can also see a Fireball just being a faster solution to the same kinds of problems.

Also, is there a definitive answer to whether Darkvision can see into the area or not?

[Kylar0990]

I am musing on potentially playing an Aberrant Mind sorcerer soon, potentially building around Hunger of Hadar but I'm worried I'll come away disappointed.

I was planning a single level of warlock to get eldritch blast, flavor it as a telekinetic push and grab repelling blast (we get a free feat)

What have your experiences been with this spell? It's big, difficult terrain, and imposes the blinded condition and feels like it would be powerful with repelling blast, but I can also see a Fireball just being a faster solution to the same kinds of problems.

Also, is there a definitive answer to whether Darkvision can see into the area or not?

Darkvision doesn't let you see through magical darkness. Anyone fully in the area of effect is Blinded so darkvision wouldn't matter.

The damage is weaker than it should be for a 3rd level spell. The area being difficult terrain and anyone in the area being blinded should keep them their longer than I've seen any DM run it though.

[anthon]

I am musing on potentially playing an Aberrant Mind sorcerer soon, potentially building around Hunger of Hadar but I'm worried I'll come away disappointed.

I was planning a single level of warlock to get eldritch blast, flavor it as a telekinetic push and grab repelling blast (we get a free feat)

What have your experiences been with this spell? It's big, difficult terrain, and imposes the blinded condition and feels like it would be powerful with repelling blast, but I can also see a Fireball just being a faster solution to the same kinds of problems.

Also, is there a definitive answer to whether Darkvision can see into the area or not?

we used this spell early on during the time when there were few supplements. It was amazingly good. With a little work, and terain changes, the targets can get lost and suffer serious trauma or death. It depends entirely on how it's presented. If you just describe what the spell does in terms of presenting it as an event without context of an attack spell, there's no logical reason to assume you aren't being attacked by horrible monsters like illithids or evards black tentacles. if the terrain previous to the spell was already complex, like with tables, short spacer walls, big pots and so on, you can get the impression you've been transported to some completely other place, or get lost through the "difficult terrain".

Damage wise, if a creature is stuck in the AOE, it's possible for them to take the full damage. For example, a 20 ft radius is 40 ft diameter. A lot of dungeon rooms are smaller than that, and have big lock doors, or easily caved in ceiling sections. Or simply wizard locked doors, or barracaded entrances. Stick a Thorny Druid spell near the escape edges for instance. But that damage can thus rise to 40d6 cold/acid. Most creatures are resistant to fire, not cold/acid, and especially not acid. That's 60-120 clean damage for everyone trapped inside screaming.

Ive seen it used to somewhat less effect, and used it myself in other games, but in all cases, it was significantly more horrible than fireball for its victims. Swimming creatures can be particularly addled by it because they might try swimming in 3D dimensions and get confused by the tentacles.


this spell gets my respect.

[Asmerv]

Darkvision doesn't let you see through magical darkness. Anyone fully in the area of effect is Blinded so darkvision wouldn't matter.

I realize that if you're in the space of the spell you're Blinded, period. I'm wondering if can see the creatures inside the spell when I'm outside of it if I have Darkvision. I've seen it argued both ways: some say that since there's no specific language that blocks Darkvision like in the Darkness spell, you can. Others say that since it's blackness and not darkness you cannot see anything inside.


The damage is weaker than it should be for a 3rd level spell. The area being difficult terrain and anyone in the area being blinded should keep them their longer than I've seen any DM run it though.

Interesting. As in you'd expect creatures who are blinded and in difficult terrain to be disoriented, but DMs have them run through full movement? I worried that would happen.


snip

This sounds pretty cool. I do see a mirror to what Kylar0990 said though: If the DM 'roleplays' creatures suddenly being in complete darkness being assaulted by tentacles and hearing terrible noises it can be very good, but if they just move+dash to the nearest edge (they shouldn't even know where it begins or ends tbh) it's worse.

[Yakk]

Someone with 30' of movement must dash to get out.

So you trade your action and a 3rd level spell for 2d6 damage and their action, or 4d6 +sa e against 2d6 and a round of blindness/darkness.

This only works on a few creatures tightly packed unless you have geometry on your side; then it works much better.

Your DM can make it infinitely better; enemies getting lost or paniced. They can do that with most spells as well, so I w9uldn't rely on it.

Note that creatures in the darkness have no idea where it ends. So them running to the closest edge is unrealistic.

As action denial it isn't bad, and you can sometimes encounters by barracading someone in a room with it or whatever.

[Sirdar]

I love the flavor of HoH but I have not been able to cast it a lot myself (yet).

Is it possible to center the spell on a moving object, like the enemy’s spell focus, magic sword or suspenders?

[Avonar]

It's a great spell for a party with abilities to move enemies. Between the Abberrant Mind's telekinetic pushes and my fighter's grapples, we got a lot of use out of that thing.

We ended up killing a boss by grapping her and just holding her in the HoH until she died.

[Valmark]

Imo it's mostly good for it's rider then for the damage- 4d6 (if it starts AND ends its turn there) on a Concentration AoE capable of friendly fire is... Meh.

Great to cast in a room and close the door like someone else suggested, though. Or if you can push them inside.


Darkvision doesn't let you see through magical darkness. Anyone fully in the area of effect is Blinded so darkvision wouldn't matter.

The damage is weaker than it should be for a 3rd level spell. The area being difficult terrain and anyone in the area being blinded should keep them their longer than I've seen any DM run it though.
That's true only if the spell says that- magical darkness by itself has no special property, so Darkvision could in theory work from outside to inside.

That said, up to the DM wether the 'blackness' is actually 'darkness'.

I love the flavor of HoH but I have not been able to cast it a lot myself (yet).

Is it possible to center the spell on a moving object, like the enemy’s spell focus, magic sword or suspenders?

Unfortunately no, it's cast on a point within range.

[MrStabby]

Its... ok.

I mean it does enough to be OK and sometimes it can be fantastic. It can be worth the spell slot but I find it tends to not really be worth the cost in terms of spells known... but if you get it for free, give it a go.

It does tend to shine in dungeons though where you can use walls and corners of rooms to limit escape angles.

Part of the problem is that there are just so many great level 3 control spells - hypnotic pattern, fear etc. And also great damage spells like fireball. Whether it is control or damage you need there is likely a better spell to cast.

That said, at high levels when you can use it just to shut down some enemies, even for a round, it can get a lot better. Blindness can be pretty evil and using a non-top-level spell slot to get its benefits, even for a turn is actually pretty good, like Ottos Dance.

[stoutstien]

Warlock spells that don't scale just irk me.

HoH is okay for the level(s) it comes online and it always has the anti light utility and flavor is a 10/10.

[Asmerv]

I agree about scaling. It confuses me to this day. Why would you design a class who's core mechanic is automatic upcasting, then design a unique and iconic spell for it that doesn't scale at all?

Fortunately it doesn't matter as much for Aberrant Mind as I don't think you can upcast if using sorcery points.

Suppose I could check in with the DM about blackness. It would significantly up the effectiveness if the party can hit those inside with advantage vs not being able to see in at all.

The problem I've been running into thinking through is basically what MrStabby described. If I want control there are better options. If I want damage there are better options. HoH is a little bit of everything but not great at any one thing: offers some control, some damage, some area denial. Guess we will see whether the flavor and the combined elements make it fun to cast or if I will wish I cast something else half the time.

[Gecks]

I've only seen it used a few times, hasn't been hugely effective, but hasn't been bad, and since the group I play with isn't super optimized, the caster had plenty of fun using it.

I think the type of campaign (lots of cramped dungeons vs. tons of battles in a wide-open field) would make a difference, and party composition could be a huge factor- if you are in a party with lot of controllers or tactical fighters with the ability to move, stun, or slow enemies to keep them in the area of affect turn over turn, HoH becomes way better. If you are in a party focused purely on high damage output, HoH is often going to shield enemies from more damage than it causes as archers need to shoot into the darkened area at disadvantage and brawlers will have to give up multi-attacking and ready an action to take a single swing when the monsters come out of the area of effect.

I do think HoH is a good sorcerer spell in general, since it is a swiss army knife that can do damage, provide battlefield control, and provide cover (by breaking line of sight viathe darkness effect). I would do a little planning with the other players before making it the focus of my build, though.

[Chaosmancer]

I see enough people have talked about the problems, so I'll highlight some of my more recent experiences.

Which was that a player would cast the spell and the DM would hang his head in frustration.

Damage at the start, means you can hit people you cast it on, damage at the end might get them again or get people who try to run through. Darkness provides cover, difficult terrain slows them down. It is, as some people have said, a little bit of everything.

And, we had a while there, I don't remember the exact lay outs of the dungeon, but the DM couldn't move enough to get out, and they ended up taking two rounds of full damage. Which is fireball, plus darkness preventing them from attacking us, and was two rounds of lock down on the enemy.

So, I'd say when it fires on all cylinders, it is devastating. Enemies can't even run completely through it, since it is a 40 ft diameter, so dashing still gets them stuck inside for 4d6 damage, and a lost turn. And if you have Devil's Sight and can see through it to knock them back another 20 ft with repelling blast? You can mess up someone's day.

But, if you cast it and everyone gets out and you only get that initial 2d6 damage? Then it does feel crappy.

[Tanarii]

It should be pretty deadly ... but 5e doesn't handle being totally unable to see very well. The rules are far too lenient in that regard, since the rules philosophy is not (generally) to have entirely debilitating effects. That makes spells like Hunger of Hadar (or even Darkness) far less dangerous in open terrain.

[Yakk]

That said, up to the DM wether the 'blackness' is actually 'darkness'.
It says no light can penetrate it. No light means darkness.

Maybe people outside with darkvision can see in however....

[MrStabby]

It says no light can penetrate it. No light means darkness.

Maybe people outside with darkvision can see in however....

Yeah, I think people with darkvision can see in, but those inside are blined so they cannot see out.