Can you get upcasted spell effects from Psionic Sorcery?

[ATHATH]

If you use the 6th level Aberrant Sorcerer feature to spend 4 sorcery points to cast Hold Person as a 4th level spell, can you actually target additional humanoids with it, or can you not because you didn't actually spend a spell slot to cast it?


Beginning at 6th level, when you cast any spell of 1st level or higher from your Psionic Spells feature, you can cast it by expending a spell slot as normal or by spending a number of sorcery points equal to the spell's level. ...

... At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd level or higher, you can target one additional humanoid for each slot level above 2nd. The humanoids must be within 30 feet of each other when you target them.

[MaxWilson]

Hmmm. You're right, upcasting appears to be illegal. Too bad. Doesn't affect much but affects some things.

[stoutstien]

By my initial reading the feature does allow up casting because spells are determined equally by their description and the slot used. magic missile cast from a second level spell slot is considered a second level spell.

Part of the reasoning was based on the fact you can choose to use a spell slot or SP was explicitly stated in the feature which would be redundant unless they were trying to imply that one could determine the spell and level cast before deciding to use the slot or SPs.

Good question.

[ATHATH]

By my initial reading the feature does allow up casting because spells are determined equally by their description and the slot used. magic missile cast from a second level spell slot is considered a second level spell.

Part of the reasoning was based on the fact you can choose to use a spell slot or SP was explicitly stated in the feature which would be redundant unless they were trying to imply that one could determine the spell and level cast before deciding to use the slot or SPs.

Good question.
There is also this section of the Sage Advice Compendium (https://media.wizards.com/2019/dnd/downloads/SA-Compendium.pdf) to consider:


Spell Level
What level is a spell if you cast it without a spell slot?
Such a spell is cast at its lowest possible level, which is the
level that appears near the top of its description. Unless you
have a special ability that says otherwise, the only way to
increase the level of a spell is to expend a higher-level spell
slot when you cast it.
Here are some examples:
• The warlock’s Chains of Carceri feature lets a warlock
cast hold monster without using a spell slot. That casting
of hold monster is, therefore, 5th level, which is the lowest
possible level for that spell.
• The warlock’s Thief of Five Fates feature lets a warlock
cast bane using a spell slot, which means the spell is 1st
level or higher, depending on the slot that the warlock
expends to cast it.
• The monk’s Disciple of the Elements feature lets the
monk spend ki points, rather than a spell slot, to increase
the level of a spell.
This rule is true for player characters and monsters alike,
which is why the innate spellcasters in the Monster Manual
must cast an innate spell at its lowest possible level.

[ATHATH]

As an additional question: If an Aberrant Sorcerer uses all of their 4th level and 5th level spell slots for the day, can they still cast Summon Aberration using Psychic Sorcery? In other words, do you need to have a spell slot available to start casting a spell on your Psionic Spells list so that you can substitute sorcery points for its spell slot cost (and pseudo-Still it) using Psychic Sorcery?

[Valmark]

I do believe you can upcast it- normally if you upcast a spell you need to use a slot, that lets you use sorcery points instead of slots so you could upcast from them.

Not commenting on the SAC- on one side those aren't actual rules, on the other it's not even correct in some parts. Hardly trustworthy.


As an additional question: If an Aberrant Sorcerer uses all of their 4th level and 5th level spell slots for the day, can they still cast Summon Aberration using Psychic Sorcery? In other words, do you need to have a spell slot available to start casting a spell on your Psionic Spells list so that you can substitute sorcery points for its spell slot cost (and pseudo-Still it) using Psychic Sorcery?

Seems to me that you don't- if you use Psychic Sorcery to cast a spell from sorcery points you're not using a slot so wether you do have a slot available is irrilevant.

[ATHATH]

Also, can you replace a spell in your Psionic Spells list at the same level you gain access to it? Can you do that at level 1?


Starting at 1st level, you learn additional spells when you reach certain levels in this class, as shown on the Psionic Spells table. Each of these spells counts as a sorcerer spell for you, but it doesn't count against the number of sorcerer spells you know.

Whenever you gain a sorcerer level, you can replace one spell you gained from this feature with another spell of the same level. The new spell must be a divination or an enchantment spell from the sorcerer, warlock, or wizard spell list.

[Valmark]

Also, can you replace a spell in your Psionic Spells list at the same level you gain access to it? Can you do that at level 1?

Seems to me that it's a yes for the first. I guess the latter depends on wether the DM rules that you're "gaining" your 1st level or not (I would say yes, but dunno).

[Kane0]

I’d allow it