noncombat uses for undead minionmancy

[SangoProduction]

One of my DMs suddenly bestowed my ghost channeler with the ability to raise undead. Neat. I don't really want to use them in combat though, between the short duration, and... well... I just generally don't incredibly like being a minionmancer. Even when it's not slowing down the game, which getting an additional turn at least does to some degree, it's just not particularly enjoyable.

So anyway, I've got this tool in my belt. I call it a skeleton key.

In all seriousness, what good uses are there to raising undead for non-combat, but still adventuring-based purposes.

[Batcathat]

You could have them take the lead (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0857.html) in dangerous areas, hopefully tripping traps and wasting the surprise of ambushes.

[ShurikVch]

You can command them to dig
This way, you may prepare a pit trap, produce your own entrance/exit, collapse some structures, drain/flood areas, etc...

[Elkad]

Without knowing what the duration is, hard to say.

Guard duty? Sorting the dragon loot pile? Rowing your galley?

[aglondier]

Don't bother with humanoid skeletons...undead beasts of burden are ridiculously cost effective...

[Zanos]

Travel? An undead horse can run all day and night, so horse skeleton with a base movespeed of 60 can travel 4x the speed of a living horse at 24 miles per hour for as many hours per day as the rider can endure. If you travel for 24 hours in a day you can move 12x the distance of someone who isn't pushing a living horse beyond 8 hours a day.

Other than that, undead are good for manipulating any objects you don't want to touch, testing out funny magic items, etc. Same reason you might use a robot to do something in meatspace.

[Delta_tea]

If you can get a hold of a smart ghost like undead, they can cruise through walls and tell where the hidden doors are.

[Esprit15]

While remaining adventurer specific? Mounts. Forget riding a horse - riding a horse for long periods sucks, especially when they’re running. Kill something bigger, strap a carriage to their back, and travel in style. Or barring that, hauling your gear, even if it’s just to hold your bag of holding.

If you manage to acquire a base of operations, skeletons can make a decent upkeep staff for the most menial jobs and cut down on maintenance costs.

As was mentioned, they make good trap detectors. Even better if you can kill a rogue and make them into something intelligent, like a bone creature.

Anything that requires just brute force, you can almost literally throw bodies at it.

[Segev]

If you have access to Libris Morris material, haunt shift can make your undead possess objects. Now you have an animated wagon.

[SangoProduction]

Sorry for neglecting to respond. Was a crazy week.

The duration is only a minute per level. And only raises skeletons or zombies.

I do have a shadow-like minion that I'm using for scouting ahead. But it doesn't have trapfinding so...yeah, let alone disable device.
Probably want to use zombies for actually triggering the traps.

[Segev]

Sorry for neglecting to respond. Was a crazy week.

The duration is only a minute per level. And only raises skeletons or zombies.

I do have a shadow-like minion that I'm using for scouting ahead. But it doesn't have trapfinding so...yeah, let alone disable device.
Probably want to use zombies for actually triggering the traps.

How often can you use it? That will affect how badly the minute/level duration limits you.

[SangoProduction]

How often can you use it? That will affect how badly the minute/level duration limits you.

Upwards of 4 times per day. During any one scene/event, the minute / level duration is essentially the whole scene. Save for particularly long dungeon crawls.

[aglondier]

I run an Against the Undead campaign every so often, and one of my favourite early gimmicks is to have the necromancer lord's apprentices craft amulets that allow any wearer to animate and control up to a dozen or so undead and infuse them with a single profession or craft skill. They sell these to merchants, village mayors, craft masters, and mercenary captains. Earning them an income while corrupting low level leaders around the countryside.
A typical first encounter would be a mining camp running 24/7, the workers are all dead, undead, and the mine owner is raking in the money since he no longer has to pay for food, wages, or wait for men to sleep. All he had to do was kill all his workers. Que the PCs.

[Segev]

I run an Against the Undead campaign every so often, and one of my favourite early gimmicks is to have the necromancer lord's apprentices craft amulets that allow any wearer to animate and control up to a dozen or so undead and infuse them with a single profession or craft skill. They sell these to merchants, village mayors, craft masters, and mercenary captains. Earning them an income while corrupting low level leaders around the countryside.
A typical first encounter would be a mining camp running 24/7, the workers are all dead, undead, and the mine owner is raking in the money since he no longer has to pay for food, wages, or wait for men to sleep. All he had to do was kill all his workers. Que the PCs.

While I get that you're setting up a villain here, I feel the need to point out that this mine owner could have just visited a battlefield or a graveyard and animated the already dead for this purpose, no murder required.

[Elkad]

But then the former workers are outside, waving their silly signs and parading their starving children around.
Plus all that digging.

[Segev]

But then the former workers are outside, waving their silly signs and parading their starving children around.
Plus all that digging.

Dig up one, animate it, and make it do the next one. Animate that one, have them work together, etc.

I mean, heck, in the mining case, they'd better know how to dig decently well!

Offer the former workers the same wages you're paying the undead, and the same safety conditions, and see if they're still willing to do the job. :smalltongue:

[SangoProduction]

Dig up one, animate it, and make it do the next one. Animate that one, have them work together, etc.

I mean, heck, in the mining case, they'd better know how to dig decently well!

Offer the former workers the same wages you're paying the undead, and the same safety conditions, and see if they're still willing to do the job. :smalltongue:

I do believe that was sarcasm that I detected in the comment you responded to, indicating that they did agree with you, but wanted to be humorous.

But yes, much better to use the already-dead than the "I don't want to be"-dead.

That then raises the question of laws in a world where necromancy is actually a thing....but that may be more than slightly off topic, and worthy of its own thread.

[aglondier]

It varies. Depends on the gullibility of the amulet bearer, and whether he has the Int/Wis to figure things out for himself. The apprentice necromancers definitely have an agenda, and want their clients to bugger things up.
A clever mine boss would keep a loyal cadre of workers topside while the graveyard-sourced undead worked tirelessly down in the mine. Profits and less work.
A clever merc captain would stick full plate on his undead, muffled with cloth, and set them as tireless sentries, with orders to shuffle posts every few hours to hide their numbers. Again, his loyal people would be appreciative of the extra time they have and the extra cut of profits.
A clever merchant would animate beasts of burden to haul his goods tirelessly, night and day, along the trade routes. Just having to hire extra shifts of drivers and guards, a cost that would be more than made up by not having to feed his beasts and by getting his goods moved faster.

[Falontani]

Manual Labor - Undead, with a small amount of intelligent supervisors.
Beast of Burdon - Undead, full stop.
Dangerous area maintenance - Undead. You need someone to do (maybe not in most DND games) underwater welding? Intelligent Undead. You need someone to change the lightbulb at the top of a lighthouse, mindless undead.

So long story short, any time that exhaustion, speed, or loss of life is a major factor, undead suits your need.

Now for some hilarious ideas!

Take a cow. Bring it to a butcher. While removing as little flesh as possible, turn the cow into a large amount of jerky. Smoked, Salted, whatever you want, jerky. You want this cow to be turned into the longest lasting jerky you can manage. Turn the cow's skin into leather (barding for the cow). Cover the jerky. Animate the cow. Occasionally cast Purify Food/Water on the cow. Hello Jerky Cow.

Skeletons and zombies can be made from any creature that has a skeleton. Octopi beaks are bone. Sounds like a skeleton to me. Giant Octopus Skeleton is just a beak. It did not lose any of the natural attacks of the base creature.

Destruction Retribution is a feat that requires corpsecrafter. When an undead animated by you is slain, it blows up dealing negative energy damage. Any creature with a skeleton can become a zombie or a skeleton. Exoskeleton sounds like a skeleton, and who isn't going to let you animate the Huge Monstrous Spider. Well use the reasoning to animate flies. 25 GP per HD of undead to be created. We have a few options, 1, flies have 1/10th a HD, so you only need 2.5 GP of Black Onyx to animate a fly; or even if it is 25 GP per fly it isn't a terrible deal. 1 fly blows up dealing 1d6 negative damage to all creatures within 10 ft, ref save DC 15 for half. So effectively you are purchasing alchemist fire that deals negative energy damage in a 10 ft radius for 25 GP, or 2.5 GP, depending on your DMs ruling.
A swarm of Fine creatures consists of 10,000 creatures. For 25,000 GP you can have yourself a swarm of Destruction Retribution flies. If it blows up it deals 10kd6, with 10k reflex saves for half of a d6. Anything without death ward, immunity, or improved evasion is dying if you blow that up next to them, and any undead allies you have in range are full healed! (or ya know, just convince your DM to allow you to animate a swarm of creatures as a single creature with the swarm HD to avoid that problem, and you get yourself a swarm, which is potent all by itself to the right enemies!)