AT spells

[T2334]

I’m getting close to making it to a level 7 AT. Want to gauge what spells are recommended. I currently have:
(1st level)
Find Familiar (Love the Owl and the sneak attacks/advantage helper)
Puppet
Tashas hideous laughter
Silent image

I barely use spells aside from making sure my familiar is always around- still new and don’t think of how to utilize the silent image component. For level 2 I’m thinking shadow blade and invisibility- more utility and not as much save throws as my DC is average. Let me know what you all think!

[Ir0ns0ul]

Shadow Blade and Invisibility are great spells, but both require your Concentration.

I advise you to get Shadow Blade to increase your offense, remembering that in Dim light you attack with advantage, therefore granting SA damage, and Mirror Image as your second spell choice. This will improve your defense big time and at level 8 you can get Sentinel for an amazing combination of off-turn attacks!

[Chronic]

I always see people recommending find familiar for the help action and always wonder why people think it a valid and reliable option. In my games, both as gm and players, the life expectancy of a familiar that take an active part in combat is usually 1 turn. Someone distracted by a bird rushing him is gonna beat the living f... out of him. And considering find familiar as a material cost, you gonna be a broke caster early game.

Sentinel as a feat is so-so, it's nice when it proc, but it doesn't proc that much, using an asi for an additional sneak attack every 3 turn or so on average is a big cost.

[Tanarii]

Hold Person, Invisibilty, and Suggestion.

Don't forget you can trade up spells. So for example if you're not using Tasha's Hideous Laughter Silent Image much, trade it up. Disadvantage is you have fewer 2nd level slots than 1st, so overloading on 2nd level spells isn't always the best idea. But if you're increasing options for specific situations, and you're not using a lower level spell anyway, go for it.


I always see people recommending find familiar for the help action and always wonder why people think it a valid and reliable option. In my games, both as gm and players, the life expectancy of a familiar that take an active part in combat is usually 1 turn. Someone distracted by a bird rushing him is gonna beat the living f... out of him. And considering find familiar as a material cost, you gonna be a broke caster early game.
Agreed. But most DMs allow the Help action to still provide advantage even if the creature that used it moves away, and Owls have Flyby and 60ft movement. That makes them harder to kill when used for this tactic.

Probably they should have been given Flyby Attack, not blanket immunity to OAs when flying.

[Chronic]

True the owl is better at it than other familiar, but if something squishy provide a source of advantage every turn, fly by or no, it's still going down if the enemy is an intelligent one. Considering that most of the encounter I design or face as a player as mixed range of attack, it would still go down every fight. But it might be a DM related thing and be valid in some games.

[Sandeman]

The Owl might be in danger if there are enemies with ranged attacks. But hey, it costs only 10gp to resummon it. So unless you abuse it in every fight, you should be fine.

[diplomancer]

The Owl might be in danger if there are enemies with ranged attacks. But hey, it costs only 10gp to resummon it. So unless you abuse it in every fight, you should be fine.

Even with ranged attacks, Owl can easily get total cover. It's the Ready action that's the danger, but this requires a somewhat smarter monster (and even then might not be worth it, specially if they have Multiattack; it's a considerable sacrifice in damage output in that case).

[da newt]

Blur is nice too. Shadow Blade is great if you are a melee rogue. Invisibility is handy for surprise or out of combat. I enjoy spider climb (but that's a personal bias). Sometimes Shield or Absorb Elements can save the day. Misty Step and Darkness can also be very handy.


(some of these a lvl8 suggestions due to school)

[greenstone]

Even with ranged attacks, Owl can easily get total cover. It's the Ready action that's the danger, but this requires a somewhat smarter monster (and even then might not be worth it, specially if they have Multiattack; it's a considerable sacrifice in damage output in that case).

It might still be worth it, to get rid of an annoying creature and to really annoy the mage.

As an aside, a creature might be able to use Multiattack as a Readied Action. Multiattack cannot be used with Opportunity Attacks (Monster Manual, Introduction) but nothing in the rules says it can't work with Ready (compared to the PC feature Extra Attack, which explicity says "on your turn"). I know that JC tweeted "A creature is meant to use Multiattack only on its turn, not on someone else's." but there is nothing in the rules that says that. I guess "expect table variation" applies here.

[Chronic]

I agree there is no reason by raw to prevent someone to ready a multi attack , it's still one action.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

Shadow Blade and Invisibility are great spells, but both require your Concentration.

I advise you to get Shadow Blade to increase your offense, remembering that in Dim light you attack with advantage, therefore granting SA damage, and Mirror Image as your second spell choice. This will improve your defense big time and at level 8 you can get Sentinel for an amazing combination of off-turn attacks!

Our AT who has also just reached 7th is going the Mirror Image + Sentinel route, so we'll see how it works out. I'm thinking he will be getting a lot of extra reaction attacks with the combo. He has a decent magic weapon and the Familiar, so Shadow Blade would be a marginal improvement for a rare 2nd level slot.

[Tanarii]

Our AT who has also just reached 7th is going the Mirror Image + Sentinel route, so we'll see how it works out. I'm thinking he will be getting a lot of extra reaction attacks with the combo.
Oh wow, that's some serious cheese,

[da newt]

Huh - I never realized that Mirror Image / Sentinel would work, but RAW it would because Sentinel states "target" but does not require the target to be a creature. Totally legit cheese for off turn sneak attack. Damn ...



Sentinel:
When a creature within 5' of you makes an attack against a target other than you (and that target doesn't have this feat), you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against the attacking creature.

[Tanarii]

Huh - I never realized that Mirror Image / Sentinel would work, but RAW it would because Sentinel states "target" but does not require the target to be a creature. Totally legit cheese for off turn sneak attack. Damn ...

It's not just Sentinel, Mirror Image is terribly written all over.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

Oh wow, that's some serious cheese,

You think? I suppose it's a matter of opinion. To me it's the sort of thing the AT is built to do, so I don't really have an issue with it. Certain multiclass combinations (usually 1 level dips) are the things I'm starting to cringe at when people come to my table with them.

[HPisBS]

I’m getting close to making it to a level 7 AT. Want to gauge what spells are recommended. I currently have:
(1st level)
Find Familiar (Love the Owl and the sneak attacks/advantage helper)
Puppet
Tashas hideous laughter
Silent image

I barely use spells aside from making sure my familiar is always around- still new and don’t think of how to utilize the silent image component. For level 2 I’m thinking shadow blade and invisibility- more utility and not as much save throws as my DC is average. Let me know what you all think!

Do you prefer melee or ranged combat? If melee, Shadow Blade would probably see good use. If not, I'd strongly consider Phantasmal Force.

And either way, Shield, Blur, and Mirror Image are always good defensive spells to have.