Need help with a gestalt character

[Dayaz]

So I'm going into a gestalt game at lvl 6 and need help. We can only prestige and multiclass on one side of the gestalt. Stand scare array.

My non-multiclass side is Dragonflies Adept.

For the other side, I kind of want to either be some form of necromancer or some form of mind ender type build. Looking for either help with those suggestions or any alternates.

[smasher0404]

So for Necromancy, I'd definitely recommend taking a look at the Necromancer Handbook (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?444597-The-Necromancer-Handbook). If you are aiming for the more minion-mancy side of Necromancy, the typical class recommendations are Cleric or Dread Necromancer (Heroes of Horror). I'd also personally recommend possibly taking a look at the Death Master class (Dragon Magazine Compendium) if that is from an allowed source.

Pros/Cons of Each:
Cleric
Pros
Widest Spell List
Domain Access
Spontaneous Channeling to heal your Undead

Cons
Heavy Armor proficiency clashes with your ability to use Invocations on your Dragonfire Adept Side
Requires specific Domain choices for Command Undead and Control Undead

Dread Necromancer
Pros
Unlimited Healing for you (assuming Tomb-Tainted) and your Undead Minions via Charnel Touch
Massively increased Animate Dead pool at 8th level from Undead Mastery.
Actual Class Features.
Free Lichdom if the game reaches level 20.
Advanced Learning can cherry pick Necromancy spells from the Cleric and Sorc/Wiz lists

Cons
Lack of access to Desecrate
Animate Dead is a 4th level spell (so won't be online until 8th level)
Spontaneous Caster (learns new Spell Levels 1 level later)

Death Master
Pros
Earliest Access to Animate Dead and Create Undead (Level 2 spell and Level 5 spell respectively)
Disposable free Undead Minion (If your Undead Minion feature is destroyed, you get a new one within 24 hours until Death Master 9 when it comes back within an hour).
Free Lichdom at level 20 that explicitly ignores the type requirement.

Cons
Narrowest Spell List
Strictest Alignment Requirements (Must be Evil)

[Gruftzwerg]

I would suggest to maybe pick something else than necromancer. The reason is, you are already a caster. Further you already have your breath where you wanna spend your actions (almost) every turn. Thus, picking a class with better action economy synergy would be better here imho.

Bard:
Imho the bard would be a much better choice for the other side. Has also CHA as mainstat and bard songs are nice. With 6 lvls of Bard you also get Suggestion (for your mind bender theme). Later you can either dip a single level or go full Mind Bender. the first level gives you Telepathy, which lets you pick the Mind Sight feat. The remaining lvls (if you take em) give you more mind control abilities.

At lvl 3 pick Draconic Aura: Vigor
This gives you an aura that gives fast healing for up to half of max HP. The effect increases with character level.
And since bard has access to healing spells, you could become a good healer in downtimes, while using your breath mainly for fights.

[vasilidor]

actually, necromancy offers a nice path into minionmancy. or just an alternative for when "breath fire(or other energy type) on it" is not a valid strategy. now if you have a way to not roast your own minions with your own fire, even better.

[NigelWalmsley]

I would suggest to maybe pick something else than necromancer. The reason is, you are already a caster. Further you already have your breath where you wanna spend your actions (almost) every turn. Thus, picking a class with better action economy synergy would be better here imho.

I disagree. The whole "active class, passive class" dynamic is overrated in typical discussions about Gestalt. The bigger issue is making sure your classes cover each other's weaknesses. And (Dread) Necromancer + DFA actually does that reasonably well. It's true that both spells and Breath Weapons take actions, but the fact that they have different resource management restrictions means they still have synergy. The fact that you have a Breath Weapon to fall back on allows you to be more aggressive with your spells. And the fact that you can choose a Breath Weapon your undead minions are immune to allows you to breath into melee combat with impunity.

[Nifft]

So I'm going into a gestalt game at lvl 6 and need help. We can only prestige and multiclass on one side of the gestalt. Stand scare array.

My non-multiclass side is Dragonflies Adept.

For the other side, I kind of want to either be some form of necromancer or some form of mind ender type build. Looking for either help with those suggestions or any alternates. Here's a decent Necromancer or Mind-Bender, if you don't mind being non-good:

Dragonfire Adept 20 // Sorcerer 5 / Fiend-Blooded 10 (Heroes of Horror) / (capstone 5)

The Fiend-Blooded PrC gets you bonus spells from off-list in Enchantment or Necromancy (or Illusion but that's irrelevant to you), which looks like it allows you to pick up Animate Dead (from the Cleric list) and Suggestion (from the Bard list) as lower-level spells. Ask your DM if it's okay to pick spells from other lists even though those spells are also on your own list. It's a pretty decent way to start animating corpses as an Arcane spellcaster, which isn't usually efficient.

The Fiendish Companion feature of Fiend-Blooded makes it seem like the class intends to improve your Familiar, so keep your Familiar if it does so (ask your DM) -- if not, trade away your Familiar for an alternate class feature.

Usually it's annoying to qualify for Fiend-Blooded on time, but Dragonfire Adept gives you all Knowledge skills as class skills so you're uniquely well-positioned.


For the capstone:

- Abjurant Champion (C.Mage) makes you more able to survive close combat, and advances spellcasting.

- Earth Dreamer (Races of Stone) is flavorful and strong, but might not fit this character.

- Demonwrecker Arcane (Expedition to the Demonweb Pits) might fit your flavor if you're going for the Hellboy route (fiend who face-stomps other fiends).

- Tainted Scholar (Heroes of Horror) is suitable in flavor. Talk to your DM.

- Mindbender 1 / Fatespinner 4 (both from C.Arc) is potent, but might not be flavor-compatible, though Fiends do often possess Telepathy.


Regarding spells: as a Dragonfire Adept // Sorcerer, you can take spells from Draconomicon which buff your breath weapon. The first level one sucks (ignore Dazzling Breath), but the 3rd level one is solid (Blinding Breath), and they get better from there -- Dispelling Breath is great, for example.



As a build, assuming Human...

Level 1: DFA 1 // Sorc 1


Feats: Dragontouched (bonus from DFA), Entangling Exhalation (Races of the Dragon), Eschew Materials (human bonus, prereq)

Invocation: Endure Exposure

Spells: Touch of Fatigue, Prestidigitation, (other cantrips), Charm Person, Power Word: Pain (Races of the Dragon)

Level 2: DFA 2 // Sorc 2


Breath Effect: Cold

Level 3: DFA 3 // Sorc 3


Feat: Blood Calls to Blood (Heroes of Horror, prereq)

Invocation: Magical Insight if nobody else can identify magic items, or Beguiling Influence if you expect social encounters

Spell: Hypnotism if you're doing social encounters, Benign Transposition (Spell Compendium) for combat

Level 4: DFA 4 // Sorc 4


Spell: Detect Thoughts for social competence, Kelgore's Grave Mist (PHB2) for some combat necromancy

Level 5: DFA 5 // Sorc 5


Breath Effect: Slow

Spells: Friendly Face (Races of Destiny) for a social bonus which stacks with Beguiling Influence, the other level 2 spell (above)

Level 6: DFA 6 // Fiend-Blooded 1


Feat: If you can take a Bloodline feat (from Dragon Compendium), this is a good place to do so. You'll get a bunch of bonus spells, which is your main weakness as a Sorcerer. Other notable feats at this level include Leadership (again ask your DM), Draconic Aura (from Dragon Magic), Obtain Familiar (C.Arc) if you traded yours away and want one now, and Versatile Spellcaster (Races of the Dragon) to get more from your lower-level slots.

Invocation: Humanoid Form, this is Alter Self except at-will, this is a disguise and a self-buff

Spell: Vampiric Drain if you expect to regret being in melee, Mind Poison (Spell Compendium) for a thematic debuff, or for combat either Ray of Exhaustion or Blinding Breath (Draconomicon)

Level 7: DFA 7 // Fiend-Blooded 2


This is where your Fiend-Blooded starts to pay off. You get Fiendish Sorcery to hopefully obtain either Animate Dead as a level 3 spell or Suggestion as a level 2 spell.

Your other spells can fit into whatever your party lacks: Slow for crowd-control, or Haste if you have a lot of martial allies who need to attack more, or even Fireball if you routinely start encounters 400+ feet away (which is annoyingly outside of breath-weapon range).

[GrayDeath]

Well, as most seem to focus on the Necromancy, let me focus on the Mind (B?)Ending!

How about going full Beguiler for the second side?

If you can swing doing Templates and paying off LA "well", maybe add half Dragon/Dragonborn of Bahamut if the Alignment fits, or Unseelie Fae for additional fun (more breath Weapons, and Flight, or SLA`s).

Will the result be tremendously powerful?

Nope. But really really stylish, and youll always ahve either honeyed or Burning Words for your opposition. ^^