Suggestions for Celestial Warlock spell choices?

[thorr-kan]

Background: I'm theory-crafting a character for fun. Variant human with Magic Initiate (Bard) feat, going to be a Charisma caster (but never a bard), Entertainer background (coulda been a bard, but never will be). I solicited opinions on spell choices (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?624716-Suggestions-for-bardic-Magic-Initiate-choices). I settled on:
Message - discreet and untappable comms are always good.
Vicious Mockery - damage is minor, but usually a non-resisted type, and gives minor battlefield control; plus unique to bards.
Heroism - minor buff, unique to the bardic and paladin list, scales with casting stat.

I've decided to start the character as a Celestial Warlock. He's going Pact of the Tome eventually. I'm looking for variety, usefulness over multiple levels, and uniqueness to this Warlock's spell list. He gets Light (utility) and Sacred Flame (attack). What cantrips and 1st-level spells would you choose?

[Quietus]

I suggest... Suggestion!

[GentlemanVoodoo]

On general advice, can't go wrong with Spare the Dying especially if your doing celestial patron. Even with going as a Tome pact, you can still use it in combination with Find Familiar (casted as a ritual). Very useful in stabilizing allies from a distance.

[KorvinStarmast]

I went Celestial, Tome, and when I got my book at level 3 I took Find Familiar. One of the best choices I made.
You could, for example, summon a parrot when you entertain, and something else when you are out adventuring.
Now that the spell Slow is on the bard's list (added in Tasha's) I'd make sure to pick that up at level 5 (3rd level spell) because it is so good as a support spell. It also offers the target disadvantage against your Sacred Flame cantrip save.

[samcifer]

If you want a consistent damage option I'd suggest Flaming Sphere. The damage might not be great, but so long as the enemies lack Evasion you can at least do a little damage to them for multiple rounds.

[cZak]

To me, spell selection is dependent on role
My Celestial Tome-lock was chiefly a support for our group; dwarf EK, 1/2ling storm barb & 1/2elf Valor bard

I was yanking (Thorn whip) & throw'n (Repel blast) enemies all over the field

Limiting enemy movement w Flaming sphere or even Misty visions.
Hunger of Hadar wasn't popular, I think because of the creep factor more than the AoE. I was itching to use Sickening radiance, but the campaign died before

Healing light is kind of minor, but you get so many throw'n one out as a Bonus is a bonus



I went Celestial, Tome, and when I got my book at level 3 I took Find Familiar. One of the best choices I made.
You could, for example, summon a parrot when you entertain, and something else when you are out adventuring.

This is a phenomenal boost. For yourself or your teammates.

[ImproperJustice]

As a Warlock your always casting at full power, so less need for low level spells unless they upcast really well.

As far as Tome choices go:

Guidance is always good. An extra 1d4 on skill checks is almost always Handy.

Mold Earth and Shape Water are both outstanding utility spells for exploration, or even combat applications. Since you have combat already covered with EB, these can really help out in other areas.


Some of my favorite all purpose spells:

The new Summons: last an hour, you get upcast versions, versatile. Lots of value for a Warlock.

Fly: As it upcasts you target more allies. Dragon fights get easier when the Barbarian and Paladin take to the skies while you hunker down and EB from a distance.

Invisibility: Again, upcasting means you target more folks. Very handy.

Misty Step: never leave home without it. Get out of prone or grapples free. Get a better position, escape walls, traps, and gaps. Love, love this spell.

Magic Circle: You won’t use this all the time. But it’s ok, as a Warlock you can have a tidy pile of niche spells.
Need to open a creepy tomb, know that Strahd is on his way. Put down a circle. Against the right enemy it’s like a budget wall of force and benefits everybody together. Bonus points if a Paladin is in the circle.

If your starting out, Cause Fear is handy.

[Randel]

I went Celestial, Tome, and when I got my book at level 3 I took Find Familiar. One of the best choices I made.
You could, for example, summon a parrot when you entertain, and something else when you are out adventuring.

Find Familiar is particularly good when paired with Spare the Dying since you can deliver touch spells through your familiar and your base familiar can have trouble surviving if enemies decide to start targeting it directly. Having a parrot, dove, or other little bird fly around the battlefield stabilizing party members (or even stabilizing enemies if you want to take some opponents alive) shouldn't attract too much attention from your enemies.

Actually, you could probably have your familiar perch on an allies shoulder and deliver touch spells through it like cure wounds or buffs in combat.

Mold Earth is an amazing utility spell from an in-universe perspective since it's basically like having a backhoe or other large piece of excavating machinery you can use at-will. Use it to dig ditches, dug under walls, dig up treasure, bury treasure, dig up corpses, bury corpses, if an enemy drops a weapon onto the ground you can wave your hand and have the ground open up to bury it 5-feet below the surface, etc. It could be thematic for a celestial warlock to take some time to bury all the dead enemies your party kills during their adventure. Just find a spot on the ground, excavate a 5-food grave, gently dump in the body, fill it back in, say a prayer for them, etc.

[thorr-kan]

Getting back to this...

Folks, thanks for the feedback. Real life has overtaken my theory crafting, and I been invited to a Zoom 5E Al-Qadim short campaign, set in the third-party City of Brass supplement. We're starting at third-level.

Since I'm fairly new to 5E and I have no idea about the other PCs, I thought I'd keep building on the current concept. I'd like to flow back into AQ fully, but I don't have the materials yet. So I'm going Warlock 2/Sorcerer 1. Yes, I lose the third level warlock Pact, but I'm going for versatility in the face of the unknown.

Race is V. Human w/Magical Initiate (Bard), as discussed above: Message, Vicious Mockery, and Heroism.
Background is Entertainer.
Class 1 is Celestial Warlock 2: Eldritch Blast, Light, Minor Illusion, Sacred Flame, Charm Person, Expeditious Retreat, Guiding Bolt; Healing Light; Agonizing Blast, Beguiling Influence.
Class 2 is Divine Soul Sorcerer 1: Guidance, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, Resistance, Healing Word, Fog Cloud, Protection from Good & Evil; Favored by the Gods.
Proficiencies end up: Acrobatics, Arcana, Deception, Medicine, Performance, Persuasion, Religion; Disguise Kit, Flute; Light Armor, Simple Weapons.

I think I've got utility caster and jack-off-all-trades covered. I can blast, I've got coms, I have some buffs, I have some defenses, I have some battlefield control, I can heal, I've got some knowledge, I have some social skills, I can range and melee in a pinch, I have some physical skills. I cannot scout, I'm not a survivalist, and I cannot stealth.

I think I'm good.

[Man_Over_Game]

I will say that level 3 is a major jump for Warlocks, more so than almost any other class, due to the fact that they can cast their level 2 spells, twice, each Short Rest (which is a major difference compared to level 1 spells), as well as the added utility of the level 3 Pact Boon.

Also, hate to be that guy, but an Invocation spent on 2 skill proficiencies is a bit of a waste, as there is a high chance that it will be redundant with the party's capabilities. It's generally best to specialize into things that are unique, as those extremes can be dialed back for a similar effect if you need a more general-purpose check.

For instance, Mask of Many Faces lets you change how you look at-will. Combined with a decent Charisma score, you don't need proficiency in Persuasion or Deception when you can just make yourself look more attractive, make yourself the sex they'd feel most comfortable with, use Prestidigitation to smell alluring. With the right setup, you'd get Advantage instead of that +2 bonus compared to someone without your talents, and that is comparable without being limited to just the basic uses of Persuasion and Deception.

It doesn't have to be Mask of Many Faces. You could instead be able to talk to animals all the time, or be able to read any text in the world. For Beguiling Influence to be comparable, I'd say it'd need to grant at least one of those skills Expertise.

And if you can't do without those skills, a single level into Rogue is pretty much all you need for most of the skill bonuses Rogues get. Some of those invocations are worth more than the features some builds get with a single level.

[EDIT] There is proof that BI is weaker than intended, thinking about it. Warlock Invocations can now be earned as feats. There's also the Skilled Feat that says "You gain proficiency in any combination of three skills or tools of your choice." If Invocations = Feats, but BI < Skilled, either Skilled is too good or Beguiling Influence is too weak, and not too many people take Skilled.

[ZRN]

Background: I'm theory-crafting a character for fun. Variant human with Magic Initiate (Bard) feat, going to be a Charisma caster (but never a bard), Entertainer background (coulda been a bard, but never will be).

Not your specific question, I feel like mechanically, either Shadow Touched or Fey Touched might be better than Magic Initiate, since you get to actually learn the new spells and cast them with your spell slots (plus you get another +1 Charisma). Fey Touched with Dissonant Whispers is good, for example.

[thorr-kan]

Also, hate to be that guy, but an Invocation spent on 2 skill proficiencies is a bit of a waste, as there is a high chance that it will be redundant with the party's capabilities. It's generally best to specialize into things that are unique, as those extremes can be dialed back for a similar effect if you need a more general-purpose check.

For instance, Mask of Many Faces lets you change how you look at-will. Combined with a decent Charisma score, you don't need proficiency in Persuasion or Deception when you can just make yourself look more attractive, make yourself the sex they'd feel most comfortable with, use Prestidigitation to smell alluring. With the right setup, you'd get Advantage instead of that +2 bonus compared to someone without your talents, and that is comparable without being limited to just the basic uses of Persuasion and Deception.

It doesn't have to be Mask of Many Faces. You could instead be able to talk to animals all the time, or be able to read any text in the world. For Beguiling Influence to be comparable, I'd say it'd need to grant at least one of those skills Expertise.

And if you can't do without those skills, a single level into Rogue is pretty much all you need for most of the skill bonuses Rogues get. Some of those invocations are worth more than the features some builds get with a single level.

[EDIT] There is proof that BI is weaker than intended, thinking about it. Warlock Invocations can now be earned as feats. There's also the Skilled Feat that says "You gain proficiency in any combination of three skills or tools of your choice." If Invocations = Feats, but BI < Skilled, either Skilled is too good or Beguiling Influence is too weak, and not too many people take Skilled.
35 years of playing my PCs has shown me versatility over specialization is both more fun and more useful. Somebody's gotta be able to pick up the slack when the specialists fail. Cross-training is a thing for a reason. Plus proficiency means I'm not using magic to overtly influence someone, leading to problems later.

ETA: That being said, if this wasn't a one-shot set a 3rd level, I'd totally be taking Warlock 3 before Sorcerer 1. But for this one-shot, I wanted the increased spell versatility.


Not your specific question, I feel like mechanically, either Shadow Touched or Fey Touched might be better than Magic Initiate, since you get to actually learn the new spells and cast them with your spell slots (plus you get another +1 Charisma). Fey Touched with Dissonant Whispers is good, for example.
Magical Initiate gives me more spells, that are independent of my sponsor. If we ever get at cross purposes, I'll need any edge I can get.