Smallest humanoid

[daremetoidareyo]

You get the idea. What the smallest humanoid?

Here’s my zero research starting point: slight build kobold. It’s tiny sometimes

[RaiKirah]

You get the idea. What the smallest humanoid?

Here’s my zero research starting point: slight build kobold. It’s tiny sometimes

Zero research addendum; slight build kobold with Hidden Talent (Compression). It's Diminutive sometimes.

[Biggus]

Forest gnomes are about the same height as kobolds but are lighter according the Races of Faerun p.53 and Races of the Dragon p.39 respectively. I don't know where slight build or Hidden Talent (Compression) are from so I don't know if forest gnomes are eligible for them.

[Particle_Man]

Is age a consideration? Perhaps a child who somehow takes levels in a class that stops the physical clock will stay half the size of their adult versions?

[hamishspence]

The Hidden Talent feat is on page 67 of the Expanded Psionic Handbook. It can only be taken at first level, but grants a 1st Level power, and the power points needed to use it. Compression is a 1st level power:

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/compression.htm

Slight Build, however, is kobold-only:

http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a

It does not actually make you 1 size smaller - it just allows you to treat yourself as 1 size smaller for certain specific things.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

At level 7 (or lower, with Overchannel, some psionic arcanist gloves, and a few other options), a slight build kobold psychic warrior with compression can make himself Diminutive and count as Fine for the aforementioned "certain things."

[daremetoidareyo]

Sparrow hengeyokai with compression can be smaller than fine in sparrow form

[Vaern]

What are the criteria we're looking at for "smallest humanoid" here?
I'm going to assume something that's really small and leaves you with your full character build available to play around with - no feats, no class levels, no major investments into equipment.
Zero-research starting point: Slight build kobold with Draconic Rite of Passage (reduce person).

More or less the same idea as the slight build kobold with Hidden Talent (compression), except the Draconic Rite of Passage is an option given to all kobolds (per Races of the Dragon) which doesn't require a feat investment and can be taken at any time rather than only at 1st level. You gain a 1st level sorcerer spell as a 1/day SLA, with CL equal to your character level.

Hidden Talent only gives you ML 1 and 2 power points, which will let you reduce your size for 2 minutes/day, while Draconic Rite of Passage gives you a scaling 1 minute/character level which overall makes it a more powerful option in the long run. Hidden Talent (compression) can make you smaller if you dedicate your build, or a large part thereof, to psionics in order to gain the ML and PP necessary to augment it, but then you're smaller as a result of your class's abilities rather than simply by nature of being a kobold.

[daremetoidareyo]

What are the criteria we're looking at for "smallest humanoid" here?
I'm going to assume something that's really small and leaves you with your full character build available to play around with - no feats, no class levels, no major investments into equipment.
Zero-research starting point: Slight build kobold with Draconic Rite of Passage (reduce person).

More or less the same idea as the slight build kobold with Hidden Talent (compression), except the Draconic Rite of Passage is an option given to all kobolds (per Races of the Dragon) which doesn't require a feat investment and can be taken at any time rather than only at 1st level. You gain a 1st level sorcerer spell as a 1/day SLA, with CL equal to your character level.

Hidden Talent only gives you ML 1 and 2 power points, which will let you reduce your size for 2 minutes/day, while Draconic Rite of Passage gives you a scaling 1 minute/character level which overall makes it a more powerful option in the long run. Hidden Talent (compression) can make you smaller if you dedicate your build, or a large part thereof, to psionics in order to gain the ML and PP necessary to augment it, but then you're smaller as a result of your class's abilities rather than simply by nature of being a kobold.

Mostly I want to see what the smallest printed thing that’s considered a humanoid is. Maybe there’s something wierd from the archive or something.

[Zaq]

Half-giant with Human Heritage and stacked return to nature--


printed

--never mind.

[ShurikVch]

Should they be playable? Or not necessary?
Because if not - then Incarnated Construct Dustform Shimmerling Swarm (Monster Manual III) would be Fine Humanoid (swarm)

But if you need smallest unaltered printed Humanoid - then Mite (https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Mite) from Dangerous Denizens is Tiny

[Telonius]

Hmm... is there any way to change a creature's type from Construct to Humanoid? I'm thinking something like, bake a Gingerbread Man cookie, cast Awaken Construct, and you have a Fine creature. Possibly Polymorph Any Object after that?

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Hmm... is there any way to change a creature's type from Construct to Humanoid? I'm thinking something like, bake a Gingerbread Man cookie, cast Awaken Construct, and you have a Fine creature. Possibly Polymorph Any Object after that?

The Incarnate Construct template (which can be applied via the incarnate construct spell, IIRC). Large and bigger constructs become giants; anything else becomes a humanoid.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Add the titan bloodline onto the above kobolds or whatever, and wield a Huge mallet while being the size of a frog.

[ShurikVch]

Hmm... is there any way to change a creature's type from Construct to Humanoid?
Incarnate Construct spell (Savage Species): permanently turns human-like Construct into Humanoid (or Giant, if larger than Medium). Incarnated Construct lose all natural attacks, feats, SA and SQ, but may keep certain amount of natural AC (up to +3, or +9 - if larger than Medium) and fly speed (if wings), and gain ability scores (+3 to all lower than 3, nonabilities are 4d6 drop lowest).

EDIT: Ninjas... :smallsigh:

[liquidformat]

Sparrow hengeyokai with compression can be smaller than fine in sparrow form

I believe this doesn't work as compression/reduce person do not stack with sparrow form as they are both size altering abilities...


Should they be playable? Or not necessary?
Because if not - then Incarnated Construct Dustform Shimmerling Swarm (Monster Manual III) would be Fine Humanoid (swarm)

But if you need smallest unaltered printed Humanoid - then Mite (https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Mite) from Dangerous Denizens is Tiny
According to that article on Mites they are Fey and not humanoid.

[ShurikVch]

According to that article on Mites they are Fey and not humanoid.
The "Fey" is 5E info; all 3.X mentions describing them as Humanoids

[JNAProductions]

I believe this doesn't work as compression/reduce person do not stack with sparrow form as they are both size altering abilities...

That seems odd-one is a form change, and the other is a size change. I don't know my 3.5 RAW super well, so that could be true, but it just seems counterintuitive to me.

[ShurikVch]

I believe this doesn't work as compression/reduce person do not stack with sparrow form as they are both size altering abilities...
No, it doesn't work by completely other reason: in 1st-party 3.X, there wasn't size smaller than Fine: thus, even subatomic particles are, technically, Fine-sized objects
Some 3rd-party sources have, IIRR, "Fine-", "Fine--", etc - but it's 1) 3rd-party, and 2) I don't remember which book it may be

[hamishspence]

D20 Munchkin has "Itsy-Bitsy" for anything too small to be visible to the naked eye.

[smetzger]

D20 Munchkin has "Itsy-Bitsy" for anything too small to be visible to the naked eye.

Probably only used for spiders though.

[hamishspence]

Probably only used for spiders though.Heh. Actually it was for "The Mighty Germ" in the first Munchkin MM book.

"Most itsy-bitsy critters are microscopic - one the size of a speck of dust would be positively obese. If you can see an itsy-bitsy monster, it's not small enough."

In the second book, there was "Cooties" and "Dire Cooties".

[liquidformat]

The "Fey" is 5E info; all 3.X mentions describing them as Humanoids
Where are you seeing that? Nowhere in the article you referenced does it talk about 3.X and after a quick google only other place I am finding anything on Mites is pathfinder which has them as a small fey...

That seems odd-one is a form change, and the other is a size change. I don't know my 3.5 RAW super well, so that could be true, but it just seems counterintuitive to me.
I will have to look when I get home but I am pretty sure this is the reason why druids can't use size changing magic affects while wild shaped. But it does make sense since a lot of form changes are also changing size already.

No, it doesn't work by completely other reason: in 1st-party 3.X, there wasn't size smaller than Fine: thus, even subatomic particles are, technically, Fine-sized objects
Some 3rd-party sources have, IIRR, "Fine-", "Fine--", etc - but it's 1) 3rd-party, and 2) I don't remember which book it may be
good point I wasn't paying attention to the fact that it was already fine just stacking size changes...

[ShurikVch]

Where are you seeing that? Nowhere in the article you referenced does it talk about 3.X and after a quick google only other place I am finding anything on Mites is pathfinder which has them as a small fey...
In the Dangerous Denizens: The Monsters of Tellene
Also, they are Humanoids in the Tome of Horrors (but that book lacks the D&D logo, and Mites there are Small-sized)