Would allowing to progress prc's to "epic" before epic levels break anything?

[H_H_F_F]

Assume we're limited to 10 level PRC's, like usual when progressing into epic, and no epic feats or anything. Just allowing to keep leveling beyond 10. It would obviously make theurging more potent, but probably still suboptimal in the end. Besides that, I don't forsee it causing issues. Thoughts?

[Darg]

Full casting non-theurge PrCs are already broken. Extending classes out another 3-5 levels really aren't changing much other than allowing the player to perform their roles to the same effectiveness prior to ending the PrC. A lot of the time it is going to be weaker than simply getting a different PrC except for special cases like theurge classes and those aren't particularly more powerful, but they do increase the amount of resources to burn which can be good or bad depending on how the game is run.

[Troacctid]

If you take out the epic feats, most of them will probably be fine. There might be a few exceptions, but I'm sure they'll be pretty easy to spot, so just vet the choices beforehand and I don't think you'll have any problems.

[Unavenger]

My first thought is that if you're extrapolating existing class feature progressions (in fact, you don't even have to do this for things that don't explicitly have a per-level progression), Hellfire Warlock could give you a nasty surprise... but if 12d6 bonus fire damage at level 15 or 22d6 bonus fire damage at level 20 is breaking your campaign then a competent spellcaster probably also is. None of the actually written-out epic progressions seems remotely gamebreaking, on the other hand.

[Darg]

My first thought is that if you're extrapolating existing class feature progressions (in fact, you don't even have to do this for things that don't explicitly have a per-level progression), Hellfire Warlock could give you a nasty surprise... but if 12d6 bonus fire damage at level 15 or 22d6 bonus fire damage at level 20 is breaking your campaign then a competent spellcaster probably also is. None of the actually written-out epic progressions seems remotely gamebreaking, on the other hand.

Any non-full 10 level progression PrCs aren't supposed to have an epic progression.

It's one of the biggest reasons for uncanny trickster and legacy champion to not improve hellfire warlock.

[hamishspence]

At least one book lists a character with more levels than they should have though. Underdark has a character with 6 levels in Archmage - the ruler of Deep Imaskar.

[Darg]

At least one book lists a character with more levels than they should have though. Underdark has a character with 6 levels in Archmage - the ruler of Deep Imaskar.

3.0 archmage + 3.5 archmage?

[Quertus]

Epic levels in Arcane Archer granting +6 or +7 arrows? Clearly broken.

I agree that, in general, you're going to be stronger taking levels in a different prestige class (so long as you remove the bonus epic feats).

Theurge classes are actually usually *terrible* in Epic, as they *alternate* granting spells. You're better off advancing the *base* class(es) at that point.

[Darg]

Epic levels in Arcane Archer granting +6 or +7 arrows? Clearly broken.

I agree that, in general, you're going to be stronger taking levels in a different prestige class (so long as you remove the bonus epic feats).

Theurge classes are actually usually *terrible* in Epic, as they *alternate* granting spells. You're better off advancing the *base* class(es) at that point.

There is no explanation for epic mystic theurge being terrible and it violates the guidelines presented for epic progression. Other theurge classes don't have to follow the mystic theurge's example.

[Troacctid]

Theurge classes are actually usually *terrible* in Epic, as they *alternate* granting spells. You're better off advancing the *base* class(es) at that point.
Only if you're not interested in bonus epic feats.

[hamishspence]

3.0 archmage + 3.5 archmage?

Underdark was an early 3.5 book. And the 3.0 version of archmage only had 5 levels too.

[redking]

No. No problem at all.

Personally I hate the epic progressions of the 10 level prestige classes, which are nothing more than an afterthought. If you follow the rule that only 10 level PrCs are to be extended and you do not provide epic feats before 21st character level, there will be no issues whatsoever.

[Biggus]

Only if you're not interested in bonus epic feats.

Epic Mystic Thuerge only grants a bonus feat 1 every 6 levels, so depending on what the base classes are you might still be better off with those.

[Particle_Man]

Maybe the save DC of some abilities that are dependant on class level might get unbalanced?

[Darg]

Epic Mystic Thuerge only grants a bonus feat 1 every 6 levels, so depending on what the base classes are you might still be better off with those.

I find ignoring epic mystic theurge and going with full spell/caster level progression and epic feats every 3 levels works just fine. You already have alternating progression beyond 9th thanks to feats being required to provide epic spell progression and caster level is too important to have halved for no reason.