Fireball attack roll

[RNightstalker]

So in the spell description it says a ranged touch attack roll is required to aim through an arrow slit. My question to the playground is this: what would you put the AC at? Base 10 plus size modifier, probably Diminutive? Talk to me Goose!

[Biggus]

I'd say either diminutive or fine depending on the type of arrow slit, but yes otherwise that's correct.

Personally I'd be inclined to increase the effective AC if you were trying to hit it at a great distance (for comparison, ray spells don't have range increments but most are close range, none are long range AFAIK) but RAW it's only 14 or 18 even if it's 1000ft away.

[RNightstalker]

I'd say either diminutive or fine depending on the type of arrow slit, but yes otherwise that's correct.

Personally I'd be inclined to increase the effective AC if you were trying to hit it at a great distance (for comparison, ray spells don't have range increments but most are close range, none are long range AFAIK) but RAW it's only 14 or 18 even if it's 1000ft away.

You make a great point. I'd probably treat it like a longbow range increment, either that or the per level bonus of 40 ft.

[Clementx]

Immobile, unattended objects have an AC of 3 + size mod. The walls of an arrow slit give +8 AC to the space behind them and are close to 6in wide > Fine (+8 size to AC) , so 3+8=11 would be appropriate.

[Saintheart]

So in the spell description it says a ranged touch attack roll is required to aim through an arrow slit. My question to the playground is this: what would you put the AC at? Base 10 plus size modifier, probably Diminutive? Talk to me Goose!

*csssht* Rolling a random dice to shoot an explosive pea through an arrow dice is not a good idea, Maverick *csssht*

[Biggus]

You make a great point. I'd probably treat it like a longbow range increment, either that or the per level bonus of 40 ft.

I'd probably treat it as a heavy crossbow (range increment 120ft). Aiming a ray is clearly intended to be easier than a bow, so using the longest range increment of any weapon seems fair.


Immobile, unattended objects have an AC of 3 + size mod. The walls of an arrow slit give +8 AC to the space behind them and are close to 6in wide > Fine (+8 size to AC) , so 3+8=11 would be appropriate.

Good point, I suppose it would be counted as an inanimate object.

[Segev]

*csssht* Rolling a random dice to shoot an explosive pea through an arrow dice is not a good idea, Maverick *csssht*

When has that ever stopped adventurers?

And maybe the cost of failure is no worse than the cost of not trying; the "Godzilla threshold" is a thing.

[InvisibleBison]

*csssht* Rolling a random dice to shoot an explosive pea through an arrow dice is not a good idea, Maverick *csssht*

Unless there's someone or something you don't want to explode within 20 feet of the arrow slit, it can't go that badly. You'll probably even do damage to your target - after all, if he's shooting arrows at you he's probably within 20 feet of the arrow slit, and as a spread, fireball can definitely pass through an arrow slit.

[RNightstalker]

*csssht* Rolling a random dice to shoot an explosive pea through an arrow dice is not a good idea, Maverick *csssht*

Only if one of the good guys is standing next to it.

[Saintheart]

FOR CRYING OUT LOUD PEOPLE I HAD TO COME UP WITH GOOSE'S REPLY TO MAVERICK WITH VERY LITTLE TIME AND ON A VERY LIMITED BUDGET, I'LL GET AROUND TO ISSUING ERRATA WHEN I CAN. :smallbiggrin:

[Thunder999]

Generally spells with attack rolls don't have ranged increments at all, the range is just the range of the spell.

[Yael]

Does this mean that if I'm targeting a diminutive hole with my fireball, I get to hold the charge of the spell?

This post, blue stands for sarcasm.

[Segev]

Does this mean that if I'm targeting a diminutive hole with my fireball, I get to hold the charge of the spell?

This post, blue stands for sarcasm.

Nothing's stopping you from holding the bead. It'll still explode at the same time it normally would, though.

[RNightstalker]

FOR CRYING OUT LOUD PEOPLE I HAD TO COME UP WITH GOOSE'S REPLY TO MAVERICK WITH VERY LITTLE TIME AND ON A VERY LIMITED BUDGET, I'LL GET AROUND TO ISSUING ERRATA WHEN I CAN. :smallbiggrin:

Please forgive me, I totally missed that one. I wasn't awake yet and even went back to bed for a few hours afterwards...I was wondering what the "csssht" thing was for lol...yeah I really wasn't awake.


Generally spells with attack rolls don't have ranged increments at all, the range is just the range of the spell.

It almost defeats the purpose of requiring a roll.

[Segev]

It almost defeats the purpose of requiring a roll.

Fireball doesn't generally require one, either. This is specifically for an unusual circumstance that the spell calls out as a rare case that might nevertheless come up (likely because it did in Gary Gygax's game when he ran it for the first player to have the spell).

[Saintheart]

Please forgive me, I totally missed that one. I wasn't awake yet and even went back to bed for a few hours afterwards...I was wondering what the "csssht" thing was for lol...yeah I really wasn't awake.

You are forgiven, but you'll have to go through administrative punishment:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNR_HofJ_Fs

:smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:

[Zerryzerry]

I always aim my fireballs at guys.
I aim at a intersection, but i first move to a place where the line of effect pass throught the real target and i specifically tell the Dm i throw it with the intent to hit the guy.
We make a ranged touch attack rolls at -4 vs the target AC. If it hits, the fireball explodes on one of the two intersections in front of his square (the one on the side of my char) but he does not get the reflex safe (while everyone else does). If I miss, we roll like a splash weapons to see where it explodes (with a d10, 1-8 explodes around, 9-10 in the intended target).

[Crake]

Unless there's someone or something you don't want to explode within 20 feet of the arrow slit, it can't go that badly. You'll probably even do damage to your target - after all, if he's shooting arrows at you he's probably within 20 feet of the arrow slit, and as a spread, fireball can definitely pass through an arrow slit.

Depends on how big the slit is. Even a spread requires line of effect, and line of effect for spells requires at least a 1 foot squared opening.

[King of Nowhere]

Depends on how big the slit is. Even a spread requires line of effect, and line of effect for spells requires at least a 1 foot squared opening.
Let's not take this stuff too literally, though. Clearly it means the fireball is not supposed to spread through a keyhole.
But taking it to the extreme, i once saw a guy arguing that a 25 cm slit would protect him from incoming spells while still allowing him to attack out...

[InvisibleBison]

Depends on how big the slit is. Even a spread requires line of effect, and line of effect for spells requires at least a 1 foot squared opening.

I did some research, and it turns out (https://czasopisma.marszalek.com.pl/images/pliki/aoto/6/aoto602.pdf) that most arrow slits were at least that large.

[Quertus]

Immobile, unattended objects have an AC of 3 + size mod. The walls of an arrow slit give +8 AC to the space behind them and are close to 6in wide > Fine (+8 size to AC) , so 3+8=11 would be appropriate.

I knew it much be something like that - citation?


Unless there's someone or something you don't want to explode within 20 feet of the arrow slit, it can't go that badly. You'll probably even do damage to your target - after all, if he's shooting arrows at you he's probably within 20 feet of the arrow slit, and as a spread, fireball can definitely pass through an arrow slit.

At the very least, they'll get a cover bonus to their save if it explodes on the other side right? (or was that only a 3.0 thing?)


Depends on how big the slit is. Even a spread requires line of effect, and line of effect for spells requires at least a 1 foot squared opening.

Oh, fun with D&D physics! My sword, arrows, and Flaming peas can get through this hole, but fire cannot! Bwahahaha!

[RNightstalker]

Depends on how big the slit is. Even a spread requires line of effect, and line of effect for spells requires at least a 1 foot squared opening.


Let's not take this stuff too literally, though. Clearly it means the fireball is not supposed to spread through a keyhole.
But taking it to the extreme, i once saw a guy arguing that a 25 cm slit would protect him from incoming spells while still allowing him to attack out...


I did some research, and it turns out (https://czasopisma.marszalek.com.pl/images/pliki/aoto/6/aoto602.pdf) that most arrow slits were at least that large.



Oh, fun with D&D physics! My sword, arrows, and Flaming peas can get through this hole, but fire cannot! Bwahahaha!

Let's remember the point of the attack roll isn't if the fire will hit someone through an arrow slit, it's for the bead that explodes into the fireball to make it through the arrow slit and explode around the targets on the other side...missing means the bead doesn't make it through and has a premature detonation. I don't like the base AC of 3 + diminutive size modifier, but I can't think of a point/source to argue something higher.

[Clementx]

I knew it much be something like that - citation?
...
At the very least, they'll get a cover bonus to their save if it explodes on the other side right?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#smashinganObject

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm#cover
+4 Reflex and Improved Evasion if it hits the wall.

[SirNibbles]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#smashinganObject

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm#cover
+4 Reflex and Improved Evasion if it hits the wall.

"Cover grants you a +2 bonus on Reflex saves against attacks that originate or burst out from a point on the other side of the cover from you. Note that spread effects can extend around corners and thus negate this cover bonus."

Emphasis mine, from the source you linked.

"An otherwise solid barrier with a hole of at least 1 square foot through it doesn’t block a spell’s line of effect. Such an opening means that the 5-foot length of wall containing the hole is no longer considered a barrier for the purpose of a spell’s line of effect. - Rules Compendium, page 80

As long as the hole is big enough for the effect to go through, there should be no cover bonus.