Knocking unconscious with rider damage

[Scarytincan]

Alright rules lawyers, what's the verdict on knocking something unconscious when there's rider damage involved in the melee attack (sneak attack, smite, hand of harm etc)? That still count as part of the melee attack and thus good to go? Or would that kill?

[Asisreo1]

Alright rules lawyers, what's the verdict on knocking something unconscious when there's rider damage involved in the melee attack (sneak attack, smite, hand of harm etc)? That still count as part of the melee attack and thus good to go? Or would that kill?
Its part of the melee attack so it wouldn't add additional death save failures.

Now, if it was an effect that does DoT on start of turn, it could be problem.

[Lupine]

I’d rule that it’s part of the weapon attack: paladin, for example deals additional, not separate damage.

However, consider where this comes up. 9/10 DMs, when a monster reachers 0hp, it insta-dies. So, for those DMs. This comes up only when hitting a player with rider damage, and only when hitting highly damaged players with rider damage. If you rule them as separate, you slap a player with 0hp and 1-2 failed death saves, depending on whether you do the rider first or not.
That’s really uncool. And the massive damage rules exist for a reason.

[Rev666]

As part of initial attack (sneak attack as example) then it all counts as one source.

Rider damage after initial attack (such as moving while under a booming blade) counts as new damage and can kill.

[Unoriginal]

As part of initial attack (sneak attack as example) then it all counts as one source.

Rider damage after initial attack (such as moving while under a booming blade) counts as new damage and can kill.

Sounds like how I would rule it, but what about damages which are part of the initial attack but depends on a saving throw?


Ex: 1d4 piercing damage + 2d6 poison damage if CON save DC 12 failed.

[x3n0n]

It seems like people are answering at least two different questions.

1. How many instances of damage are there (for the purposes of things like death saves and concentration saves)?
2. If a melee attack has more than one type of damage in the same instance, under what conditions you apply this text from the PHB?



Knocking a Creature Out
Sometimes an attacker wants to incapacitate a foe, rather than deal a killing blow. When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. The creature falls unconscious and is stable.

The text here suggests that the attacker can always choose to knock out as long as the damage was dealt as part of a melee attack.

(IMO, if you'd double its dice on a crit, it's one instance, and if that instance was a melee attack, you can choose to knock out.)

So, IMO:
Poison rider on a bite? One instance, melee attack: can choose to KO.
Shocking Grasp and Inflict Wounds? One instance, melee attack: can choose to KO.
Divine smite? One instance, melee attack: can choose to KO.
Green Flame Blade? Damage to first target is all one instance on a melee attack: can choose to KO. I don't think the neighbor damage qualifies.
Searing smite? Initial fire damage is part of the attack: can choose to KO. Fire damage on later turns: can't choose to KO with that damage.

[Unoriginal]

Searing smite? Initial fire damage is part of the attack: can choose to KO. Fire damage on later turns: can't choose to KO with that damage.

This makes me think of a Searing Smiter who KOs an enemy they want to keep alive, but then forgets to put out the fire before moving to the next foe.