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View Full Version : Would a Paladin or Bard be the best fit for this party?



minute
2021-03-08, 02:08 AM
The party consists of a dex-based fighter (no shield IIRC), swashbuckler rogue, abjuration wizard, druid.

Obviously there's only one character capable of healing in the entire party, and that's the druid (who also seems to favor damage more than healing/support). There's also only one character with a decent charisma score, and nobody has a strength above like 12. For these reasons, I'm leaning towards a Paladin, but playing a full caster is always fun so Bard is also an option. Either way, I want to be able to provide some support/healing when needed. I know that I want to play a charisma-based class just because they're fun.

If I went with Bard, I'd go Lore Bard and probably take Counterspell and Revivify at level 6, just so there'd always be at least 2 of us in the party who can cast one of those spells. I'd lean very, very heavily into the support/utility side of the Bard; I wouldn't care about damage at all and would focus entirely on setting my allies up for success. Bardic Inspiration is obviously a fantastic feature, and the wide array of Bard spells would allow me to pick and choose whichever spells our party seems to be lacking. Expertise and Jack of All Trades would also make me virtually good at everything which would be fun. However, a Bard would have much lower AC and HP than a Paladin, and like I said, would deal virtually no damage.

If I went with Paladin, I'm leaning towards a Vengeance Paladin. I want to be able to run into the frontlines and tank a bunch of hits so that my allies don't have to. With the Vengeance subclass specifically, I could single out one guy from the very beginning, hit him with a Vow of Enmity and Compelled Duel, and let my party take care of everyone else. The Redemption Paladin is also a very intriguing choice if I wanted to focus more on support/defense, but I truly have no idea how I would play a Redemption Paladin. Our group is very roleplay-heavy, and just like most other groups, we're a chaotic bunch who don't always make the most morally sound decisions. I've been trying to think of a way to create a Redemption Paladin who isn't just a stick in the mud, but I'm having some trouble fleshing those ideas out. Anyway, playing a Paladin would obviously give us one more frontline fighter, as well as somebody who's capable of healing and throwing out spells like Bless or Shield of Faith if need be. It'd introduce some "divine magic" into the group as well, which would be fun both in a mechanical and roleplay sense. And of course Aura of Protection is amazing.

Whatever the case may be, as I said before, my group is very roleplay-heavy, so super uber optimized characters aren't really my goal here. I'm a veteran of the game and while I like playing optimized and effective characters, roleplay is my favorite part of the game. Playing a compelling character is more important to me than playing a min/maxed one. Regardless, I'd say that I'm leaning towards a Paladin (I have what I think is a very unique character concept for one), but I'm interested to hear what you guys think!

Hannibal78
2021-03-08, 03:23 AM
I had a College of Whispers Bard, who was on the task, to get any healing method, magical or non magical, what he can, without to worrying to much about the method what he was using. He was chaotic good.
So in my toolkit there was always the healing option, also to support the "cause" when it was in my interest (if you are in a group and to stay alive, you can justify a lot of thing what will be in your best interest :P). If you want more melee fight, i am sure, you can manage it with some optimalization, or if you want ranged go for it.

Now here come the Psychic Blades: If you want, you can use your bardic inspiration to cause more dmg. 3d6 till lvl 5 which is decent, but you will come realy online from lvl 5 when the bardic inspiration will refresh after every short rest, and your dmg will 5d6.

From lvl 6 the Mantle of Whispers was insanely usefull in multiply occasion. Free disguise self who you just killed recently, the general knowledge what that person knew! That option is way stronger what the general speak with the dead spell can offer. And you can use that for free one time after every short rest.

From lvl 14 the Shadow Lore can be also extremly strong.

Of course if you dont want to kill, you dont have to, still you will have your bard kit to deal with the living. I think also, that a College of Whispers can give you the opportunity to play any kind of bard still, what you want to play, cuz they like to maskarade themself from other College.

diplomancer
2021-03-08, 03:56 AM
If the dex fighter is going no shield, I assume he will be an archer.

At first glance, I'd say Paladin, but both Swashbuckler and Abjurer are quite tanky in melee- abjurer even more so if he can get his hands on Armor of Agathys, which he should try to do; if the Druid's going Moon, you have yet another tank.

For that reason, I'd say either choice is fine, but I'd suggest different subclasses for what you are trying to do:
a) If paladin: Vengeance is only a good tank if there's only one BBEG, and even then Compelled Duel is something any Paladin can do. I'd suggest Conqueror (the best Paladin tank from level 7), or, if you find the fluff icky, maybe try Crown-in general, not the best subclass, but still a decent tank.
b) if Bard, though I love Lore, I think Valor might be a better fit. As the party has a Rogue, you can let him be the main skillmonkey; both the proficiencies of Valor as well as the improved Bardic Inspiration will help this party more, I believe. If you DO go Lore, I'd leave the Counterspelling to the Abjurer. Counterspell is great, but 2 counterspells are only needed if you are fighting several casters OR if you are counterspelling the counterspell of the counterspell; and both of these are too situational, so it's probably better to focus your reaction on Cutting Words.

Waterdeep Merch
2021-03-08, 01:04 PM
What sort of campaign is it? If it's heavy on the undead, fiends, or evil in general, paladin no contest. If it's much more urban with few fights and a greater emphasis on social activities, bard absolutely.

If there's a lot of adventuring and you can expect a lot of fights, I'd lean paladin for the sturdiness. If there's a lot of adventuring and you can expect a lot of traps and puzzles, I'd lean bard for their plethora of ways to interact with them.

If this is a game with a lot of interesting moral quandaries, a paladin is a useful ensemble cast member, a viewpoint that isn't covered by the other players. If this is a game where the party operates more like a tight knit gang, a bard is going to slot in more effectively without pestering the darker members of the crew.

Figure out what kind of story you're in, then choose the character that best suits it. If they haven't told you anything yet, ask your DM for some details. We DM's love talking about our settings at length. You'll get brownie points just for asking.

firelistener
2021-03-08, 05:26 PM
It sounds to me like you know your stuff really well, so you'd probably rock it either way. Being a good party member is way more about how you strategize and cooperate than picking the right class. That said, I would suggest paladin purely because you seem to want to play that more. If you're really wanting to ham up the support and charisma skills though, I think bard might work out better since they have way more options and resources for that stuff.

Nidgit
2021-03-08, 07:48 PM
I'd lean Bard for two reasons. Bard is a more efficient healer than Paladin, which you'll want with only one other character with healing available. Bard is also a lot more versatile in play style meaning that you can change your role to fit better once you know how the druid and fighter are playing, particularly if you're starting before Level 3.

The real question is, though, why not both? Bard/Paladin is a fantastic multiclass that's a little less damage-optimized than infamous Sorcadin of Padlock but makes for fantastic and sturdy frontline support with still great nova damage. Best of both worlds, really.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2021-03-08, 09:20 PM
Order Cleric 1/ Lore Bard, vHuman for Shield Master, put expertise in athletics, stick to heavy armor. You get tons of great low level spells that only have a verbal component, so grapple and shove prone a dangerous opponent every fight. When you cast a 1st level or higher spell that targets the rogue, he can make a reaction attack that can be a second sneak attack each turn.

KorvinStarmast
2021-03-09, 11:44 AM
The party consists of a dex-based fighter (no shield IIRC), swashbuckler rogue, abjuration wizard, druid. For me, the answer would be paladin.
You already have two full casters and a skills expert.
Having a second dedicated martial/fighter rounds out the party's roles and needs nicely.
Paladin, Oath of Vengeance, fills that role very well.

Nefariis
2021-03-11, 01:44 PM
As others have said, I would go Paladin 6 (Vengeance) or Paladin 8 (Ancients)

You con definitely mix some fun into it though, go Hex 1, 2, or 3 for some flavor which is awesome thematically with vengeance paladin (literally sold your soul for vengeance) - and as a bonus, short rest smites and CHA to hit and damage.

Normally I'm a big fan of mixing Lore into anything, but if your team already has skills covered, then I don't think you can beat Paladin Auras for completing a team party.

Albert
2021-03-11, 06:43 PM
Having played both I'd say Paladin for the following reasons:

1. I'm not sure how tanky your Druid and Dex Fighter are, but at first glance I'd say the biggest weakness in the party is frontline. A Bard will be able to stun and whatnot, but against powerful foes with legendary saves and condition immunities Bards can be pretty unreliable. Meanwhile, the Paladin will be a fantastic frontline anchor in tough fights like this.

2. Fighter, Swashbuckler Rogue and Vengeance Paladin sounds like a truly terrifying DPR machine. Especially when backed up by the utility/versatility of the spellcasters, I don't think there is much that can withstand you guys. I shudder to imagine what Action Surge, Sneak Attack, Divine Smites, Spike Growth and Fireball all raining down in the same turn look like.

Also, let me say from personal experience that the Vengeance Paladin's ability to charge and kill the most powerful foe on the battlefield can be a (literal) godsend to the party. Let the Rogue, Fighter and Druid defend the backline from minions if they must. It is your privilege to annihilate the behemoth.

3. You've still got healing and charisma covered. Maybe not as much as a Bard, but it might not matter. You'll kill things much faster and take less damage overall, plus Paladins still get access to stuff like Bless, Cure Wounds, and Shield of Faith if they really want it. Also, the Paladin Aura is a great passive buff for your fellow front liners. Eventually you'll get fear immunity and you're already proficient in Wis Saves which is something this party lacks.

Now all that being said, I think the only problem would be stealth. Your party will likely have to figure out how to get you past guards and whatnot. Still, your charismatic and honorable affect will likely help.