Lich's Phylactery in a BOH

[Porksound]

Here's one for the DM's out there...

Playing 5E

Group dropped a lich to zero hit points.

Then they found his phylactery and, unsure of how to destroy it and worried that he'd regenerate soon, they threw the phylactery into a bag of holding assuming he'd regenerate and be therefore contained.
I'm figuring that since Lich's must "prepare" their spells, and this Lich was a Wizard when he was a person, without his spell books he's got no plane shift abilities that would allow him to escape the bag... also, if/when they reach in and pull him out, he's not going to have spells to combat them with.

I already rolled the d10 for regeneration and they have two days.

Can anyone think of anything I'm not thinking of regarding what might happen when he regenerates?

He's not going to rip open the bag because he's smart enough to know that doing so would destroy him and his phylactery. The group is joking (for now) about using him as a daily experience generator... lol

Weirdness abounds!

[MaxWilson]

Here's one for the DM's out there...

Playing 5E

Group dropped a lich to zero hit points.

Then they found his phylactery and, unsure of how to destroy it and worried that he'd regenerate soon, they threw the phylactery into a bag of holding assuming he'd regenerate and be therefore contained.
I'm figuring that since Lich's must "prepare" their spells, and this Lich was a Wizard when he was a person, without his spell books he's got no plane shift abilities that would allow him to escape the bag... also, if/when they reach in and pull him out, he's not going to have spells to combat them with.

I already rolled the d10 for regeneration and they have two days.

Can anyone think of anything I'm not thinking of regarding what might happen when he regenerates?

He's not going to rip open the bag because he's smart enough to know that doing so would destroy him and his phylactery. The group is joking (for now) about using him as a daily experience generator... lol

Weirdness abounds!

"Dying" doesn't erase the spells you already have memorized, so it isn't true that the lich will have no spells when he regenerates.

If the lich had any brains at all, he would already have Wish memorized when he was killed, so he can just Wish (Demiplane) to get access to a demiplane where he's got extra spell books/etc. stored.

MM liches have no brains as written so they prepare useless stuff like Power Word: Kill, but the MM fully authorizes you to change those spells and you should. Even something simple like Wish (Druid's Grove) can wildly alter the character of a fight, and that's what 9th level spells are for. Temporarily killing a single PC with Power Word: Kill will not do that.

In fact, even MM liches have access to Plane Shift in their default spell list, so he shouldn't be stuck in the bag.

Anyway, even if he doesn't have Wish or Plane Shift anything like it, he can still fight back when the bag is opened, but I think his main priority is going to be getting away and hiding his phylactery somewhere safer than before. He might try bargaining with them ("I will tell you how to find a great magical treasure, long lost to my people, if you let me go free"), and if that doesn't work he might just try Dimension Door (which is in the MM lich stat block), before or after paralyzing one of the PCs with his legendary action.

[Porksound]

"Dying" doesn't erase the spells you already have memorized, so it isn't true that the lich will have no spells when he regenerates.

If the lich had any brains at all, he would already have Wish memorized when he was killed, so he can just Wish (Demiplane) to get access to a demiplane where he's got extra spell books/etc. stored.

MM liches have no brains as written so they prepare useless stuff like Power Word: Kill, but the MM fully authorizes you to change those spells and you should. Even something simple like Wish (Druid's Grove) can wildly alter the character of a fight, and that's what 9th level spells are for. Temporarily killing a single PC with Power Word: Kill will not do that.

"Dying" doesn't erase the spells you already have memorized, so it isn't true that the lich will have no spells when he regenerates."

This is precisely the sort of thing I was looking for... I could just make it so... but is there anything to back this up in the lore? I'm not seeing anything anywhere that establishes this.

Thanks for the feedback!

[MaxWilson]

"Dying" doesn't erase the spells you already have memorized, so it isn't true that the lich will have no spells when he regenerates."

This is precisely the sort of thing I was looking for... I could just make it so... but is there anything to back this up in the lore? I'm not seeing anything anywhere that establishes this.

Thanks for the feedback!

Well, it's the same rule as for PCs--none of the effects of death (in 5E, as opposed to AD&D) is to wipe your mind clean of prepared spells.

In AD&D, even if you just go down to 0 HP, you lose all of your spells and are basically useless for fighting and spellcasting until you get some bed rest, after your brush with death. In 5E, one Revivify pops you back up to 1 HP and you can go right back to fighting/casting.

[Unoriginal]

As others have said, the Lich would still have the spell they had when they died.

Also, you don't need planar travel spells to get out of a Bag of Holding.

"If the bag is overloaded, pierced, or torn, it ruptures and is destroyed, and its contents are scattered in the Astral Plane"

In other words, the Lich can just pierce or tear it from the inside, then enjoy a small Astral trip.

[Porksound]

Well, it's the same rule as for PCs--none of the effects of death (in 5E, as opposed to AD&D) is to wipe your mind clean of prepared spells.

In AD&D, even if you just go down to 0 HP, you lose all of your spells and are basically useless for fighting and spellcasting until you get some bed rest, after your brush with death. In 5E, one Revivify pops you back up to 1 HP and you can go right back to fighting/casting.

I have thirty of years of D&D under my belt but only one year of 5e... I'm glad I asked this question!

THANKS!

[MaxWilson]

I have thirty of years of D&D under my belt but only one year of 5e... I'm glad I asked this question!

THANKS!

Note: if your group is okay with sticking to the AD&D way, I would recommend sticking to it. The 5E way trivializes death more than I think is healthy for the game. If you use an AD&D-inspired rule variant, e.g. lose any memorized/prepared spells and all spell slots, and take -4 on all attack rolls/saves/ability checks until you've had four long rests (per the Raise Dead spell description), it will be bad for the lich and good for the players so they will probably be okay with it, but make sure they know that the same rules will apply to them.

[Samayu]

Every morning you regain all spell slots, and a wizard can change up their spells if they have access to their spellbooks. I can see where it would be a game changer to your players to start implementing this rule!

[Sigreid]

Even if he didn't remember his spells, a lich only has to get to the edge of the BoH space and tear a hole in it to get out.

[DwarfFighter]

So, the other day one of the PCs decided to pick up a pair of dormant Mummies and put them in his bag of holding. At the end of a rather fierce encounter they found some more treasure and decided to add that into the bag of holding. I ruled that the character stowing the items was suddenly pulled into the bag by two pairs of mummy hands. It was a complete surprise for the players and a great extra encounter.

The part is now more particular about the Undead they dump into their bag of holding.