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LumenPlacidum
2021-03-08, 03:36 PM
Barbarians who walk the path of the Rage Mage never do so as their entire milieu. This is a path that seizes a mage and draws them in. They begin to find that their spells become more powerful when they are angry and passionate about the outcome. They find that spells become locked in and uncontrollable while they are gripped by the throes of their own rage. This variety of mage gives up fine control to a certain extent in favor of raw blasts of power.

Augmented Spellcasting
When you reach 3rd level, you augment your fury with the ability to access magical power, although this subclass provides very little ability to control such power. Please note that this subclass does not offer a way around the stipulation that you cannot cast spells while Raging.

Spell Slots
The Rage Mage table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your spells of 1st level and higher. Note that the Rage Mage does not offer any spells known and, indeed, the class spell list doesn't have any spells in it. If you have access to known spells from another source, however, you may use these spell slots to cast spells that you know as per the normal spellcasting rules.

Spellcasting Ability
Your spellcasting ability for all spells becomes Constitution, no matter what it was before taking this subclass. For you, magical power flows from your own visceral emotions and grit. Magic is something you endure, rather than something you control. You use your Constitution whenever a spell refers to your spellcasting ability, no matter the source of the spell. In addition, you use your Constitution modifier when setting the saving throw DC for all spells you cast and when making an attack roll with one.

Spell save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Constitution modifier

Spell attack modifier = your proficiency bonus + your Constitution modifier

Multiclassing Note
If your table uses the multiclass optional rule, then a Rage Mage adds his or her full barbarian level to the level of other spellcasting classes in order to determine their spellcaster level to determine spell slots. Please note that all other Spellcasting features become modified to use your Constitution ability score in place of whatever ability score they had been using previously. For example, a 5th level barbarian / 3rd level wizard with the Rage Mage subclass has the spell slots of a 8th level spellcaster and uses their Constitution modifier as their spellcasting ability modifier for wizard spells, instead of
their Intelligence modifier. They don't get a choice in this.

Raw Power Smite
Starting at 3rd level, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack while raging, you can expend one spell slot to deal force damage to the target, in addition to the weapon's damage. The extra damage is 2d8 for a 1st-level spell slot, plus 1d8 for each spell level higher than 1st. Any recipient of this damage must succeed on a Strength saving throw against your spell save DC or be knocked prone and moved 10 feet directly away from you.

Body of Magic
Starting at 6th level, you can use your bonus action to spend a spell slot and regain 1d8 hit points per level of the spell slot spent in this way.

Blasts of Raw Power
Starting at 10th level, whenever you use your Raw Power Smite to deal additional damage to a creature with a melee weapon attack, you cause an explosion of raw, uncontrolled magical energy to burst forth from the target. Each creature within a 20 foot cone, which must be placed so as to include the creature against whom you used Raw Power Smite, must make a Dexterity saving throw against your spell save DC or also take the extra damage of your Raw Power Smite. A successful save halves the damage. The creature that already suffered the Raw Power Smite is not subject to the extra damage.

Locked Focus
Starting at 10th level, you may enter Rage while you are concentrating on a spell and not lose concentration on that spell. In fact, it becomes impossible to lose concentration on that spell, and the duration of the spell will be extended until the end of your Rage. For example, if you are under the effects of a Haste spell when you enter Rage, then the effects of Haste will persist throughout the entire Rage, with no need to make Constitution saving throws for concentration, and without regard to the duration of the Haste spell itself.

Eat Spell
Starting at 14th level, when you succeed on a saving throw against a spell that has a spell level, you can use your reaction to consume the energy of that spell. You gain an extra spell slot of the same spell level as the spell that you consumed. Any extra spell slots disappear at the end of a long rest.

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I just thought it would be interesting to have a spellcasting subclass for a non-spellcasting class that only provided spell slots and alternative ways to use spell slots. Probably it's not a great powergaming choice, but then again, with rage resistances and smites and full spell slot progression on the same extra-attack-granting class? Maybe it is! It's a supremely good crit-fisher. Maybe for that reason I should change it to saving throw damage with the smite-like effect and not have it be multiplied for a crit. It's hard to imagine how good a level 14 subclass capstone would have to be to justify taking 14 levels of this to make 6 levels of an actual casting class as potent as taking 20 in the caster class. What I have here is definitely not enough. Maybe making it so that the reaction just made you auto-eat the spell without a saving throw...

Garfunion
2021-03-09, 11:12 AM
I understand what you are trying to do but the Barbarian already has a magic oriented archetype (wild magic) and a “smite” oriented archetype (zealot).

LumenPlacidum
2021-03-09, 12:07 PM
I understand what you are trying to do but the Barbarian already has a magic oriented archetype (wild magic) and a “smite” oriented archetype (zealot).

Yeah, I don't deny that the wild magic barbarian is similar in theme to this. That said, I'm not sure that I agree with the idea that a zealot barbarian is "smite" oriented.

Perhaps it just feels bad that the magic-oriented barbarian subclass that exists is no help to a spellcasting character. Magic is leaking from their bodies, and yet their spells don't become stronger? It feels like a failure of vision to me. *shrug*

MrStabby
2021-03-09, 02:32 PM
So I could play an Eberron mark of warding dwarf, get armor of agathys added to the otherwise empty spell list and be able to cast it... which has damage resistance (to BPS anyway) whilst I am raging? This seems insane.

supercereal
2021-03-09, 02:34 PM
The concept is cool (I think that the Rage Mage was a prestige class in 3.5 and I always liked the idea), but the execution, sadly, makes no sense. As it is this subclass has no reason to exist on its own, but only as a 3rd level dip for any full spellcasting. The first 3 levels are a HUGE, you get:

-Full slot progession
-COS as spellcasting ability (this is bonkers! gigabroken)
-Divine smite
-Unarmored defense (you can max Cos and Dex for high AC and finesse weapon)
-Danger sense (bonus)

I suggest to rewrite the subclass to be more similar to the eldrith knight and arcane trickster, maybe giving the abilitiy to cast spell while raging but only Rage Mage spells.

LumenPlacidum
2021-03-09, 04:34 PM
It does not provide a way around the stipulation of not being able to cast spells while raging. The spellcasting interactions with raging are completely unchanged until level 10, and at level 10 it only provides the ability to keep concentration while raging.

If you splashed 1 level of barbarian with the mark of warding dwarf and progressed as a full caster, you would have almost that anyway...

I admit that I'm thinking of the class as an ingredient rather than something that stands well on its own.

Con as a casting stat is tantamount to saying "You're like a caster, but with more hitpoints." The lack of Con save proficiency just likely brings it up to the same level as a Sorcerer. Maybe such a character would not have to take further abilities to boost concentration. But again, until level 10, they couldn't rage and keep concentration anyway, and after level 10, during a rage their concentration can't be broken.

Hmm, the full casting and getting smite that early might be too little investment for that benefit, though. That's a good point. Maybe if I swapped the healing ability and the smite ability so you got heals at level 3 and smite at level 6? Spending 6 levels in Barbarian would put you three full spell levels behind in terms of spells known, and would prevent any caster from reaching level 9 spells.

The smites might still be too strong. Could go with d6 per spell level instead, or lower the spellcasting progression to half-caster. Or, i could go with a static amount of extra damage per level, so as not to provide too much synergy between the barbarian's natural ability to be terrifying with criticals and the powerful smiting.

MrStabby
2021-03-09, 08:28 PM
It does not provide a way around the stipulation of not being able to cast spells while raging. The spellcasting interactions with raging are completely unchanged until level 10, and at level 10 it only provides the ability to keep concentration while raging.

If you splashed 1 level of barbarian with the mark of warding dwarf and progressed as a full caster, you would have almost that anyway...

I admit that I'm thinking of the class as an ingredient rather than something that stands well on its own.

Con as a casting stat is tantamount to saying "You're like a caster, but with more hitpoints." The lack of Con save proficiency just likely brings it up to the same level as a Sorcerer. Maybe such a character would not have to take further abilities to boost concentration. But again, until level 10, they couldn't rage and keep concentration anyway, and after level 10, during a rage their concentration can't be broken.

Hmm, the full casting and getting smite that early might be too little investment for that benefit, though. That's a good point. Maybe if I swapped the healing ability and the smite ability so you got heals at level 3 and smite at level 6? Spending 6 levels in Barbarian would put you three full spell levels behind in terms of spells known, and would prevent any caster from reaching level 9 spells.

The smites might still be too strong. Could go with d6 per spell level instead, or lower the spellcasting progression to half-caster. Or, i could go with a static amount of extra damage per level, so as not to provide too much synergy between the barbarian's natural ability to be terrifying with criticals and the powerful smiting.

You smite like a paladin but with full spell slot progression. This alone should be ringing some alarm bells.

The thing is, for a Paladin, smiting is almost balanced as it means giving up on a major class feature (spellcasting) to use. You just throw this on as a bonus? Ok, so you need to be raging - so I guess that you need to hope that the really hard fights where you need to rage are those fights that also happen to be really hard so you need to smite... because if the hard fights are the same fights that are hard fights then you get to use both.


And Con as a cating stat is awesome and you seem to have missed an important detail here - Barbarians get proficiency in constitution saves. Starting with a level in barbarian and high con not only gets you max HP but also great concentration saves.


So a few ideas that might be concerning...
Cleric 5, Barbarian 1 - now your cleric gets to put up spirit guardians and wander round enemies with impunity thanks to epic concentration saves. More barbarian just upcasts spirit guardians and then at level 10 you are hitting with two attacks as well. Given how good spirit guardians is at being upcast you are not really even hindering your cleric progression much. If you ever find yourself in a day with more fights than you have level 3+ spell slots as a last resort you can rage ans wreck face that way instead.

Moon druid/barbarian - now the classic wildshape/rage combo doesnt even slow down spell slot progression.

Fiend pact/barbarian - so temp HP stacking with rage, armour of agathys to stack with rage and more spell slots to use with your lower level warlock spells.

Hexblade/barbarian - somewhat as above. you could build this a number of ways, but just adding wrathful smite and shield onto this as spells known is powerful enough. Given the interest paladins already have in adding some warlock levels for short rest recharging spell slots for smites it is clear that this is what we might euphemistically call Very Good.

LumenPlacidum
2021-03-09, 11:25 PM
So, to determine if the spellcasting progression for Smites is too much, I think one standard for comparison is to look at a progression that goes Paladin 2, and then Sorcerer on.

In terms of MADness and SADness, the Barbarian wins by a little bit. Both of these characters need Attack bonuses, HP, AC, and casting stat (although the barbarian might not need that so much, if they just plan on smiting a lot).

In terms of the order: Attacks, HP, AC, Casting, the sorcadin gets Str, Con, <nothing>, Cha and the barbarian gets Str, Con, Dex+Con, Con. All of those factors are important to the characters, although I think the barbarian comes out a little ahead, since they don't really need great AC with common damage resistance and ability to self-heal.

Each is doing what they're supposed to be doing for the sake of comparison by level 3.

At level 3:
The sorcadin has worse hitpoints. 2d10+1d6 plus what is probably +2 per level from Con yields 25 hitpoints. The barbarian definitely wins with 3d12 plus what is almost certainly +3 per level, for 34 hitpoints.

The sorcadin probably has better AC, with chain mail providing AC 16, and the barbarian probably prioritizing Str and Con over Dex, ending up with AC 15.

The barbarian, oddly, has more spell slots, having 4/2 to the sorcadin's 3/0.

The sorcadin has... well... spells. These could be as simple as providing +2 AC, really solidifying the AC advantage over the barbarian, or any of a number of other options providing greater flexibility.

Against an AC 18 foe, the sorcadin is probably only smiting on a crit. This provides an expected damage output of 5.8. If the sorcadin smites with every attack, then they expect 8.4 damage per turn.

Against an AC 18 foe, the barbarian is probably raging, reckless attacking, and smiting every time with a level 1 slot, saving the level 2 slots for crits. This provides 15.9 damage per round.

Unquestionably, the level 3 barbarian has a much stronger offense than the sorcadin. Its defense is questionably comparable. Higher HP, lower AC, advantage on attacks against him, but resistance to damage. The barbarian's attack is being significantly improved by advantage from Reckless Attack. If the sorcerer can also provide some way to get advantage on attacks, then they are going to bump a lot in damage.

At level 6:
The sorcadin has had an ASI. Common wisdom is frequently to make that a feat, like polearm master. The barbarian actually probably has the same priority. So, let's assume both of them take polearm master.

Sorcadin HP: 41.5, Barbarian HP: 62.5

Sorcadin has likely upgraded AC using Splint to get AC 17. The barbarian is still at 15.

Spell slots: The sorcadin has 4/3/2 and the barbarian 4/3/3.

The sorcadin has access to second level sorcerer spells, which likely give it a much more solid defense, with something like Blur, making hitting the sorcadin a rare affair (especially with Shield).

Against an AC 18 foe, the sorcadin has two attacks with polearm master, and still smites with a first level slot on crits. With this strategy, the sorcadin expects to output 8.5 damage per round. If it smites with second level spell slots on every attack (obviously, the third level ones are too valuable), then it will jump to 20.2 per turn.

Against the AC 18 foe, the barbarian has three attacks with advantage, and has no care for which spell slots are used, preferring to use the highest slots possible. So, we'll assume level 3 smites with each attack. This comes to 66.5 damage in a turn.

Now... while that the sorcerer is about to become a lot more powerful, I admit that 66.5 expected damage against an AC 18 foe at level 5 is ridiculous. The gain from the extra critical hit chance and extra dice is too much.

I think I need to drop the subclass to a half-caster.

That said, what does it look like when a level 20 version of this class just does the obvious thing and uses its highest level spells to smite?

It's at about 190-200 damage in that first turn against a AC 18 foe. This is very high, but as novas go it's not completely unheard of. It is, however, quite strong. Mind you, it uses a level 9, a level 8, and a level 7 spell slot all in one turn...

Nifft
2021-03-10, 01:29 AM
I think I need to drop the subclass to a half-caster.

Other classes which start casting at level 3 seem to be 1/3 casters (Arcane Trickster, Eldritch Knight).

In terms of Smite damage progression, I'd suggest keeping the spell-level portion low and adding more smite dice as the Barb levels up (so a Barb 3 / Sorc 17 doesn't out-perform a Barb 20 at Barbarianing).

You might even increase the die type with level. IMHO the goal should be to have level 1 slots feel satisfying when used to Smite at ever character level; and your level 4 slots should be a big deal.

tarak_666
2021-04-03, 01:15 PM
Raw Power Smite
Starting at 3rd level, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack while raging, you can expend one spell slot to deal force damage to the target, in addition to the weapon's damage. The extra damage is 2d8 for a 1st-level spell slot, plus 1d8 for each spell level higher than 1st. Any recipient of this damage must succeed on a Strength saving throw against your spell save DC or be knocked prone and moved 10 feet directly away from you.


I feel like this part steps on the paladin's toes a bit much. Might just be me though