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King of Nowhere
2021-03-08, 06:19 PM
I have a nation devoted to the death god nerull, and they practice human sacrifice on a large scale. the notes i have on it say that the nation is mostly isolated and frowned upon, because they are not exactly the kind of people who inspire trust. nonetheless, it is powerful and prosperous, because their god uses the power from their sacrifices to boost them.
now it seems the campaign may focus a bit more on this nation, and i need to figure out, what exactly is nerull giving those people for the sacrifices?

the book of vile darkness has some rules for sacrifices and boons, but they are all related to the priest and perhaps a small group of people. there is virtually no long term stuff that would help a nation be powerful and prosperous. i would like to extend a similar mechanic to a nationwide level.
but! gods cannot intervene directly in the material plane in my campaign, and they have limited power. the boons can't be something exaggerated
the obvious candidates don't seem to fit well.
- increased agricultural yields: there are already spells doing that, and they require no sacrifices. "yes, but it increases even above that" seems kinda lame.
- good weather: the nation size and power level means they already have enough clerics and druids to cast control weather that they can at least mitigate the worst effect of extreme weather without sacrifices
- good trade: would be nice, if i could come up with a reasonable way for a god's boon to grant that
- pay for magic items: my world is high magic, items are quite commonplace, and the sacrifice rules don't grant enough benefits to be worth the hassle.
- good natural resources: this is viable, i can see a god's power manipulating the earth's crust to bring more valuable materials to their nations. there is a bit of a matter of scale, in that it seems an energy intensive process. but i can use that.
- higher intelligence/ability to level up for the whole population: i definitely want to explain them getting high leveled power boosts for their sacrifices, as the power of a nation is strongly tied to the high level characters it can muster. but it kinda seems too good a boon. workable, though

looking for more ideas, any suggestion?

OldTrees1
2021-03-08, 06:31 PM
The population has been immune to disease for some time now.
The population has a longer life expectancy for some reason.
Infant mortality rates are near 0.

They believe the rites to Nerull God of Death are related.

Nerull isn't quite the Grim Reaper, so they can't just negate death on a wide scale. But Necromancy is the power over death, including reinforcing the body to stave off death.

InvisibleBison
2021-03-08, 07:58 PM
In return for these sacrifices, Nerull grants everyone in the nation a one-time stay on death. The first time any citizen of the country (or however you want to define the beneficiaries) would die, they instead don't die, and recover from whatever should have killed them. Each person can only benefit from this once in their life, and if the sacrifices ever aren't performed at the appropriate time and in the appropriate fashion, the benefit is lost - which means that anyone who's been saved by the boon immediately dies.

One Step Two
2021-03-08, 08:22 PM
In return for these sacrifices, Nerull grants everyone in the nation a one-time stay on death. The first time any citizen of the country (or however you want to define the beneficiaries) would die, they instead don't die, and recover from whatever should have killed them. Each person can only benefit from this once in their life, and if the sacrifices ever aren't performed at the appropriate time and in the appropriate fashion, the benefit is lost - which means that anyone who's been saved by the boon immediately dies.

That's actually a pretty good double edged sword, it prevents would-be heroes preventing the ritual sacrifice, as it would mean the deaths of unknown numbers of people.

Another boon could be that people could access perfect communion with those that have passed, able to access the memories and wisdom of the long-dead. Meant to allow people to speak with their ancestors and loved ones who have passed. And also allow Nerull to continually manipulate the living.

NigelWalmsley
2021-03-08, 08:59 PM
You could have it power something like the Arcane Order's Spellpool. The sacrifices don't so much go "to Nerull" as they go a pool of mystical energy he administers. When the nation's spellcasters call upon it, he feeds it back allowing them to cast greater numbers of spells or more powerful ones. You could also tie that into more personal ritual sacrifice rites that work for individual casters.

Maybe Nerull maintains some kind of permanent spell effects over the kingdom (Deathwatch and Death Ward would be thematic fits, though they might not be useful enough to be worth it).

Perhaps the point of the ritual is that the people sacrificed come back as some kind of undead guardians, and whatever effects the ritual produces can be relatively minor as they're essentially positive side effects.


- pay for magic items: my world is high magic, items are quite commonplace, and the sacrifice rules don't grant enough benefits to be worth the hassle.

I mean, you could always improve them. If you're going to homebrew something, I don't see why you can't homebrew a better rate for this. Alternatively, you could have it be used to empower vasty artifacts of mighty power. Killing a bunch of people to get a +4 sword is kind of a crap deal, but if it gets you a sword that can spread fear across an entire enemy army and empower its wielder with the power of death itself, maybe that's worth it.


- higher intelligence/ability to level up for the whole population: i definitely want to explain them getting high leveled power boosts for their sacrifices, as the power of a nation is strongly tied to the high level characters it can muster. but it kinda seems too good a boon. workable, though

Doesn't have to just be intelligence. Increased physical strength, slower aging, resistance to disease, faster recovery from wounds. The idea of bloodline blessings you get from human sacrifice has potential, as does empowering individuals.

False God
2021-03-08, 09:17 PM
Nerull is a god of death, so his boons should be related to that. The nation already has enough powerful magic users to cover all the non-death related stuff.

They sacrifice a lot of people right? Well that means a lot of dead bodies. But that's a Death God's bread and butter. The Death Nation commands grand armies of the undead (it's one reason why people don't mess with them). Nerull's influence insures these troops are more loyal, more durable, and self-rebuilding or something. Necromancers of the land can command more undead than usual, and the nation has an absolute abundance of corpses.

If the power of the gods is limited in direct influence, then to keep from upsetting the balance and playing with other gods domains, Nerull simply makes the Death Nation better at all things death related.

Maybe the Death Nation is working towards an end-goal and so they resemble something like the Necrons. They use death magic to power unspeakable killing machines, enormous flesh golems even "upgrade" themselves with the end goal of becoming Nerull's ultimate army.

It may sound dull that "the Death Nation that worships the Death God is good at Death Stuff", but it is simple, is it relevant to Nerulls domains, is in line with the interests of the nation. Do more of what they're good at.

Quertus
2021-03-08, 11:42 PM
Nerull is a god of death, so his boons should be related to that.

Should they? The sacrifices themselves seem pretty death-themed; do sacrifices to demons usually produce demon-themed results?

Still, imagine if crows, locusts, and viruses all died inside the sacrificial area - and came back as undead versions of themselves, working *for* the nation rather than draining its resources.

Imagine if citizens who painted / tattooed the mark of Nerull upon themselves stayed conscious to -10 HP, didn't die until -30, and never bled to death. Also didn't starve to death.

For a crazy twist, what if the sacrifices were all volunteers, and their deaths empowered their bloodlines with boons (like undead levels of productivity)… and allowed them to possess said bloodlines. So, a tireless workforce… any member of which could suddenly bust out high level skills and abilities.

What if the nation is built upon the body of a dead goddess (of, say, nature and kindness). Hey body is naturally bountiful, and these sacrifices are to keep her asleep?

These sacrifices are actually just a beacon - something else is sending "good vibes" to the targeted area; Nerull is simply taking the credit.

Nifft
2021-03-09, 12:35 PM
I have a nation devoted to the death god nerull, and they practice human sacrifice on a large scale. the notes i have on it say that the nation is mostly isolated and frowned upon, because they are not exactly the kind of people who inspire trust. nonetheless, it is powerful and prosperous, because their god uses the power from their sacrifices to boost them.
now it seems the campaign may focus a bit more on this nation, and i need to figure out, what exactly is nerull giving those people for the sacrifices?

First off, I want to note how well your username and your thread title go together:

https://i.imgur.com/Hl2U2Ac.png


Now, some thoughts on the topic:

Nerull is a god of death and undeath. His gifts might be related to undeath. For example, to deaden the celebrants against feelings of mortality -- not actual health, just the ability to "work through" sickness and pain.

This would gird their soldiers against fatigue and morale failures, and allow laborers to work longer & under worse conditions without as much complaint.

Sure, some would die, but people die anyway.


Next idea: Posthumous Corvée System. You owe your lord 1/3 of your lifetime labor, but you don't have to pay it while you're still alive. Death and taxes, in that order.

Life feels prosperous for the living because you're doing less forced labor.

The eternal undead bondage thing is a future concern.

Berenger
2021-03-09, 01:02 PM
Nerull is a god of death and undeath. His gifts might be related to undeath. For example, to deaden the celebrants against feelings of mortality -- not actual health, just the ability to "work through" sickness and pain.

This would gird their soldiers against fatigue and morale failures, and allow laborers to work longer & under worse conditions without as much complaint.

Sure, some would die, but people die anyway.

Maybe divine favour could be represented by giving every citizen in good standing with the state religion (earned by paying the tithe used to organize the sacrifces, attending a certain ceremony and receiving a non-permanent mark on your forehead and / or daily prayers) a free regional feat, in this case Tireless (https://dndtools.net/feats/players-guide-to-faerun--22/tireless--2925/)? It would be equally useful for hard labour (harvest season) and military needs (forced marches, sustained fighting).

King of Nowhere
2021-03-09, 05:02 PM
well, lots of great ideas here, and of a reasonable power level. it will be hard picking.
just a couple of things i should mention



Next idea: Posthumous Corvée System. You owe your lord 1/3 of your lifetime labor, but you don't have to pay it while you're still alive. Death and taxes, in that order.

Life feels prosperous for the living because you're doing less forced labor.

The eternal undead bondage thing is a future concern.
that's already fairly common in my world. i follow the "there's nothing inherently bad with undead" school of thought, and so undead laborers are used by everyone. half the reason the world is high magic is that they free up a lot of people from menial works, allowing them to take more advanced specializations



They sacrifice a lot of people right? Well that means a lot of dead bodies. But that's a Death God's bread and butter. The Death Nation commands grand armies of the undead (it's one reason why people don't mess with them). Nerull's influence insures these troops are more loyal, more durable, and self-rebuilding or something. Necromancers of the land can command more undead than usual, and the nation has an absolute abundance of corpses.

similarly, undead armies are also a thing used by everyone, though constructs are generally preferred.

the fact that everyone already uses undead is the reason i didn't immediately go for the obvious approach of giving them undeath boons.

then again, the idea that nerull's undead would simply be stronger or have some special ability has a certain merit



It may sound dull that "the Death Nation that worships the Death God is good at Death Stuff"
it is dull; but then, "the Death Nation that worships the Death God is good at needlework" just doesn't sound right :smallbiggrin:

Nifft
2021-03-09, 05:14 PM
that's already fairly common in my world. i follow the "there's nothing inherently bad with undead" school of thought, and so undead laborers are used by everyone. half the reason the world is high magic is that they free up a lot of people from menial works, allowing them to take more advanced specializations


similarly, undead armies are also a thing used by everyone, though constructs are generally preferred.

the fact that everyone already uses undead is the reason i didn't immediately go for the obvious approach of giving them undeath boons.

then again, the idea that nerull's undead would simply be stronger or have some special ability has a certain merit

Okay, in that case perhaps Nerull's domain gives his favored nation freedom from the sorts of problems which usually accompany mass necromancy.

Ghosts, ghouls, ghasts, specters, focused non-terminal repeating phantasm, class 5 full roaming vapors, allips, and so on are simply not found in the wilds of Nerullotopia.

The priesthood claims their sacrificial rites appease all ancestors and set them to rest; in truth, the spontaneously created undead are enslaved, and sent to spy on or disrupt other lands.

Undeath is their business, and it's delivered free.

NigelWalmsley
2021-03-09, 05:42 PM
it is dull; but then, "the Death Nation that worships the Death God is good at needlework" just doesn't sound right :smallbiggrin:

The key is to find a way to make "good at Death magic" interesting. Perhaps something that doesn't, at first glance, seem like it's "Death magic" at all.

erikun
2021-03-09, 06:32 PM
The most obvious boon for a pro-Nerull society would be becoming undead. What's better than becoming one of Nerull's chosen, complete with immortality and no fears of injury or illness? I'm thinking that a ritual to become a low-level undead while retaining the person's intelligence would probably be the case. An awakened zombie or awakened skeleton, probably with some sort of natural rebuke/turn resistance. And since Nerull likes this society, the person's mind and soul are retained during the "awakening". (Normal use of the ritual would just kill the character and make an animated undead, thus giving a real benefit to the citizenry.)

Of course, the process is probably not cheap or common. Rulers of the nation, or local areas, are the ones who pick who goes through the ritual. It enforces support of the national hierarchy along with faith towards Nerull's power. Perhaps there are even other rituals, allowing the basic awakened undead to be crafted into a greater undead type at a later date.
(Or maybe those who desire greater power just stay alive longer, pursuing a stronger advantage.)

As for the sacrificed, their bodies can just be raised as simple undead. Another aspect could be that national leaders can simply utter commands and have the skeletons/zombies of such sacrifices obey. No rebuke undead or special ability required. It is another gift of Nerull, showing the kingdom as his favored and the sway he gives those who are loyal towards it.

OldTrees1
2021-03-09, 07:17 PM
The key is to find a way to make "good at Death magic" interesting. Perhaps something that doesn't, at first glance, seem like it's "Death magic" at all.

Like healing, longevity, survival, agriculture, peace.

J-H
2021-03-09, 11:32 PM
Battle Meditation: Soldiers can grant each other advantage on an attack as a reaction or BA. ALL of their soldiers can do this.

Nerull's Blessing: All loyal citizens of the nation are permanently under the effects of Bless. Possibly expand the +1d4 to include applying to skill checks.

More to Grow, More to Die: People and animals are substantially healthier and more fertile. Twins and triplets are the norm, and miscarriages are way down. Demographics is destiny, and the future belongs to those who show up.

Deathless Army: 50,000 sacrifices means 50,000 undead waiting underground for war.

Enhancement: All loyal citizens have +2 to all 6 base statistics. This is huge.

Magitech: Access to magic items not commonly available otherwise. My current game has the Aztec-ish people using flying boats powered by sacrificed humanoid hearts. The boats only work during the daytime because their main deity is a sun god (and for game balance reasons). The hearts run out of power after 120 days, so there's continuous demand for more.

Magic Potency: Thanks to some pool, symbol, or linkage, spellcasters can cast 1 (or PB/2) spells per day as though they are two levels higher than the spell slot being consumed. You may have to invent some rules for what happens when an 11th level Dispel hits a magically flying ship; I'd probably treat it like something closer to Disjunction. They'll have especially potent healing and counterspelling and a few other things, too.

Diamond Soul: Everyone's proficient in all saves.

noob
2021-03-10, 01:52 PM
By sacrificing creatures that have excessive lifespans (ex: undead, dragons, elves) Nerull grants more leeway in resurrecting the citizens of that nation provided it is temporary (basically Nerull otherwise have an huge tendency to refuse letting his clerics resurrect the dead).

sktarq
2021-03-10, 02:44 PM
Firstly agriculture: A whole new ballgame in bonuses to go along with normal yield boosting spells. Kill those pests, weeds, and fungal infections. Stay the hands of death on the crops themselves....and hey presto you have a second level of boost to the system. This could well compound on the normal spells. Say goodbye from famines and the like.

Second. Stay the hands of death for now. In accepting the role of death in your future Nerull doesn't have to make the point now. And thus things like aging, disease (esp infant mortality), and wound infection

Possibly even things like needing less food, water, and sleep....the idea that much of your food intake and sleep go to maintaining life/pushing back death for a while longer. The sacrifices mean that that death doesn't push as hard and thus needs less food/sleep to push back. Thus the nations armies need less of a logistical trail, can march longer, etc. Plus work hours can be extended a couple hours for everyone without biting into social/cultural/personal time and that increases the economic output per person per annum significantly. Even more so with a lack of childchare hours wasted on infant mortality, less sick-time, etc plus more people on the specialized high value work from undead labour and low agricultural labour force would all work together on this too.

Wizard_Lizard
2021-03-10, 03:22 PM
it is dull; but then, "the Death Nation that worships the Death God is good at needlework" just doesn't sound right :smallbiggrin:

All worship the death god... Granny Wilkins!

GrayDeath
2021-03-10, 07:16 PM
Most things have already been said, but another thing would be: No lsot Knowledge.
Literally. If someone who is an insanely good Architect would die, he gets to be an intelligent undead instead, and continue granting the Nation the best Buiuldings (TM).

Same with any source of Knowledge, really.

Additionally, every living member that shows enough Intelligence gets a full fledged Education in ther chosen field (Class) for a mere 5 years of living or 50 years of dead service to the State. (given that the multi use of most udnead as Teachers, Workforce, Soldiers and what not is a given).

And finally, dont forget the immense lack of internal conflict/mental problems when you can simply go to the Necromancer next Door and Speak with dead with your freshly died grandma who sadly passed away 2 days before youa rrived to be there.

I for one, would vastly enjoy not having to be afraid to suddenly lose ,loved ones.
And who klnows, if you are rich enough/important enough, she/he might come back in a fitting undead form (now of course any cleric can do expensive ressurections, but the recipients are still fragile, if you can be sure to be araound AS LONG AS NERUL WISHES, I would expect all willing citizens to LOVE that COuntry.

And everyone else to provide excellent Sacrifices.

quinron
2021-03-14, 12:14 PM
Next idea: Posthumous Corvée System. You owe your lord 1/3 of your lifetime labor, but you don't have to pay it while you're still alive. Death and taxes, in that order.

This got me. I'm going to have to wedge this into the world I'm building.