Filling in for a rogue as an artificer

[Greywander]

I'm joining a group to play through Dragon Heist (no spoilers, please) and it looks like we don't have a rogue. My character is going to be an Artillerist artificer, so I automatically get proficiency in thieves' tools. I'll also get tool expertise at 6th level, but it sounds like Dragon Heist only runs to 5th level anyway, though we might continue into the followup adventure after that. Aside from taking proficiency in Stealth and Sleight of Hand, what else can I do to fill a rogue's shoes for my party, particularly with a measly 14 DEX?

I should mention we do have a wizard, so we might rely on their familiar for scouting.

I was also thinking of taking proficiency with a forgery kit for my background. For my second tool, I was debating between a disguise kit or an herbalism kit; I know the disguise kit will fit the rogue role better, I'm just not sure it's needed or that the herbalism kit won't also be useful.

[heavyfuel]

The main niche for the Rogue is detecting and disarming traps. Sleight of Hand is usually more character dependant than role dependant. There's no such thing as a "pickpocket" role.

Grab Investigation, which is Int based, to search for traps - some DMs use Perception, so maybe that instead - and then use your Thieves' Tool Kit (TTK) proficiency to disarm them. Most DMs call for for Dex based TTK check, but I've seen DMs allowing Int based TTK use.

The other niche for the Rogue is scouting with Stealth. However, with 14 Dex and no expertise, my best suggestion is to just use the Familiar for it.

In combat, Rogues are usually single target damage dealers and skirmishes, being able to use Cunning Action to be as slippery as possible. But you're an Artificer, so fight like one, don't try to fight like a Rogue.

[Naanomi]

Can you TcoE-style switch your stat boosts around? A Goblin Armorer can be quite the stealthy bugger if you build that way

[Mjolnirbear]

I've built a thief with an alchemist before. It has all the tools you need for wall-climbing, fooling guards, opening locks, manipulating traps, and even invoking a blessing from Lady Luck.

But for a party, a rogue mostly brings mobility and single-target damage. You can use your Elixir of Speed for mobility, but damage wise you're more in the back with pompoms (or God-Wizarding, per Treantmonk's Guide).

[Greywander]

Grab Investigation, which is Int based, to search for traps - some DMs use Perception, so maybe that instead
My understanding is that Perception is to see the thing, Investigation is to know what the thing is. Different DMs will run it differently of course. I was planning to take Investigation anyway, because I like being the guy who knows stuff, but I'm hoping to grab a more flavorful skill for my last one. Perception is effective, but less interesting than some of the other options.


In combat, Rogues are usually single target damage dealers and skirmishes, being able to use Cunning Action to be as slippery as possible. But you're an Artificer, so fight like one, don't try to fight like a Rogue.
Indeed, I'm just talking about out of combat stuff. Someone's got to disarm the traps and unlock the doors, and maybe pick a pocket or two, or plant evidence on someone.


Can you TcoE-style switch your stat boosts around? A Goblin Armorer can be quite the stealthy bugger if you build that way
I could, but I've already settled on a halfling Artillerist. The DM is letting us all take a free feat at 1st level, so I'm taking Bountiful Luck to better serve a support role. The original intent was to build a support character, hence halfling + Bountiful Luck, as well as artificer. Artillerist gets me the protector turret, which will help a lot in combat.

I think we still have one player who has yet to say what they're playing as, so we'll see. We also have a bard, so there might be some opportunity for them to take on some of the roguish stuff as well.

[Kane0]

Prof in the right skills and tools should be fine, and you're already a halfling. You could take a different feat if you really want, like Skulker or skill expert. Maybe even tandem tactician or something if you have access to UA.

[stoutstien]

Artificer can fill most roles pretty well and they can match rogues in sneaky lock picky information gathering even with a lower dex thanks to infusions like cloak of elven kind, lantern of reviling, gloves of thievery, and so on. Flash of genius is also nice for roll protection as well.

Befor level 5 the difference isn't really noticable to begin with. Proficiency is enough to be relevant.

[Aett_Thorn]

I have an Elf Artificer in the same campaign, and am subbing as the Rogue in that as well, so I can safely say that so far I've been mainly able to fill my role fairly well. For infusions, I took Repeating Shot because I found a cool pistol, then Wand of Secrets and Rope of Climbing for two of my others. With these, I can hep find any secret doors that my Perception might miss, or be able to help us all climb up to higher areas in a pinch. Infusions just add so much flexibility, I've found, that it's hard to NOT be able to find a way to fit in your theme on an Artificer.

[Damon_Tor]

I have an Elf Artificer in the same campaign, and am subbing as the Rogue in that as well, so I can safely say that so far I've been mainly able to fill my role fairly well. For infusions, I took Repeating Shot because I found a cool pistol, then Wand of Secrets and Rope of Climbing for two of my others. With these, I can hep find any secret doors that my Perception might miss, or be able to help us all climb up to higher areas in a pinch. Infusions just add so much flexibility, I've found, that it's hard to NOT be able to find a way to fit in your theme on an Artificer.

Heh, cheesing infinite uses out of that pistol is a great idea. The campaign limits it's utility by limiting your ammo, but the artificer has a great solution, doesn't he?

[diplomancer]

I'm joining a group to play through Dragon Heist (no spoilers, please) and it looks like we don't have a rogue. My character is going to be an Artillerist artificer, so I automatically get proficiency in thieves' tools. I'll also get tool expertise at 6th level, but it sounds like Dragon Heist only runs to 5th level anyway, though we might continue into the followup adventure after that. Aside from taking proficiency in Stealth and Sleight of Hand, what else can I do to fill a rogue's shoes for my party, particularly with a measly 14 DEX?

I should mention we do have a wizard, so we might rely on their familiar for scouting.

I was also thinking of taking proficiency with a forgery kit for my background. For my second tool, I was debating between a disguise kit or an herbalism kit; I know the disguise kit will fit the rogue role better, I'm just not sure it's needed or that the herbalism kit won't also be useful.

Your difference from the Rogue at levels 1-3 at lockpicking/disarming traps is a whooping -1 IF the DM makes those a dex check. At levels 4-5 it's -2, and after that you surpass him. Don't worry about it for locks/traps, and leave the scouting to the familiar.

Sleight of Hands is more a "Rogue flavor" thing than a party role; sure, get it if you want and think it's fun, but it's not mandatory. Better if your DM is the type to request sleight of hands checks to disguise somatic components.

[stoutstien]

Heh, cheesing infinite uses out of that pistol is a great idea. The campaign limits it's utility by limiting your ammo, but the artificer has a great solution, doesn't he?

Not really cheesy. The DM is probably well aware of the artificer's ability to use firearms and make the repeating infusion so they looked at it and decided that it's fine or they would of just swapped them out for the standard drow handbow.

[Aett_Thorn]

Not really cheesy. The DM is probably well aware of the artificer's ability to use firearms and make the repeating infusion so they looked at it and decided that it's fine or they would of just swapped them out for the standard drow handbow.

Yeah, the only "cheese" thing I did with it was we did a side one-shot quest where we were under water, but with repeating shot I could still use it there.

[stoutstien]

Yeah, the only "cheese" thing I did with it was we did a side one-shot quest where we were under water, but with repeating shot I could still use it there.

Aye. cheesy would be spinning all your time crafting smoke powder and firearms and starting an armed coup

[Greywander]

Artificer can fill most roles pretty well and they can match rogues in sneaky lock picky information gathering even with a lower dex thanks to infusions like cloak of elven kind, lantern of reviling, gloves of thievery, and so on. Flash of genius is also nice for roll protection as well.

Befor level 5 the difference isn't really noticable to begin with. Proficiency is enough to be relevant.
Yeah, you're probably right. For levels 1-5 the difference would be minor. And really, a 14 or 16 with proficiency is probably enough to be competent, it's just nice to be able to go beyond competent and into superhuman. When it comes to ability checks, nothing really competes with Reliable Talent, especially if you also have expertise, but if it was strictly necessary then no one but rogues would ever make ability checks. And besides, while we always want to succeed, sometimes an occasional failed check can be more interesting. Flash of Genius is also a nice failsafe if it's a roll we really don't want to fail. All in all, it's definitely not as good as a rogue, but it should be sufficient for most cases.

[Rfkannen]

I honestly wound up filling the role of a rogue fantastically as an artillerist artificer without even trying. You got thieves tools profiencies, just get stealth and perception and you are set!

if you REALLY want to go thievy, you can take skill expert stealth, that is just fun!

Go herbalism and take the disguise self spell.

But yeah, in some ways artificers fill the out of combat roll of a rogue better than a rogue does!