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Theodoxus
2021-03-10, 11:39 PM
With all the discussion on races and the new custom lineage, I'm seriously considering culling the "classic" races from my games. As I've noted in other threads, there's very little reason disparate sentient species would co-exist long on the same planet without one wiping out all the rest through legitimate superiority. It happened in our own distant past with different hominid species.

So, with that, the Custom Lineage given to us in Tasha's is too narrow of scope for an entire table to use without player buy-in. So, I propose expanding it, allowing traits to be picked from a menu of choices. I used the ranking from https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?625780-Detect-Greater-Balance-%96-A-Critical-Review-of-5e-Race-Design&highlight=race+traits pulling the traits I thought would be best for my personal homebrew world, so I realize these could be a little contentious. But the Prime traits were those rated at 8 or more points. Major traits are 4 to 7 and Minor traits are less than 4. So obviously, within each category, there are arguably better or worse choices, but they're all relatively close to each other, at least according to thoroughlyS.

Anyway, here's what I came up with:

Custom Lineage
Instead of choosing one of the game's races for your character at 1st level, you can use the following traits to represent your character's lineage, giving you full control over how your character's origin shaped them:
Creature Type. You are a humanoid. You determine your appearance and whether you resemble any of your kin.
Size. You are Small or Medium (your choice).
Base Speed. Your base walking speed is 30 feet. (Can be modified by traits)
Ability Score Increase. One ability score of your choice increases by 2.
Prime Trait. You gain one trait of your choice from the Prime Trait list below.
Major Trait. You gain one trait of your choice from the Major Trait list below.
Minor Trait. You gain one trait of your choice from the Minor Trait list below.
Languages. You can speak, read, and write Common and one other language that you and your DM agree is appropriate for your character.


Prime Traits


1) Breath Weapon. As the Dragonborn ability.
2) Feat. You gain a feat of your choice for which you quality.
3) Fey Step. As the Eladrin ability.
4) Grovel, Cower and Beg. As the Kobold ability.
5) Natural Shell and Shell Defense. As the Tortle traits.
6) Nimble Escape. As the Goblin ability.
7) Pack Tactics. As the Kobold ability.
8) Saving Face. As the Hobgoblin ability.
9) Shapechanger. As the Changeling ability.
10) Stone's Endurance. As the Goliath ability.

In lieu of a Prime Trait you can pick 1 additional Major and Minor Traits or 2 additional Minor Traits instead.


Major Traits


1) Aggressive. As the Orc ability.
2) Armor Training. As the Mountain Dwarf trait.
3) Darkvision. 60' of Darkvision (can be taken twice for 120')
4) Feline Agility. As the Tabaxi ability.
5) Long-limbed. As the Bugbear trait.
6) Lucky. As the Halfling trait.
7) Major Natural Armor. Your AC is 13 + Dexterity modifier.
8) Naturally Stealthy. As the Lightfoot ability
9) Relentless Endurace. As the Half-orc ability
10) Toughness. As the Hill Dwarf trait.

In lieu of a Major Trait you can pick 2 additional Minor Traits .


Minor Traits


1) 20 ft climb speed. As the Tabaxi trait.
2) 25 ft move speed, but not reduced by heavy armor.
3) 35 ft move speed. As the Woof Elf trait.
4) Amphibious. As the Triton trait.
5) Cunning. As the Gnome trait.
6) Fey Ancestry. As the Elf trait.
7) Hold Breath. As the Tortle trait.
8) Mask of the Wild. As the Wood Elf trati.
9) Minor Natural Armor. Your AC is 12 + Dexterity modifier.
10) Nimbleness. As the Halfling trait.
11) Powerful Build. As the Goliath trait.
12) Resistance. Gain resistance to 1 energy type of choice.
13) Savage Attacks. As the Half-orc ability.
14) Silent Speech. As the Ghostwise Halfling ability.
15) Speak with small beasts. As the Forest Gnome ability.
16) Surprise Attack. As the Hobgoblin Bugbear ability.
17) Tinker. As the Rock Gnome ability.
18) Trance. As the Elf trait.
19) Weapon Proficiency. Choose up to 3 martial weapons.
20) Wizard Cantrip of choice. As the High Elf ability.

kingcheesepants
2021-03-11, 12:14 AM
I like this, it allows you to mix and match and make a cool character of your own. One nitpick, surprise attack is a Bugbear ability, Hobgoblins have light armor, 2 martial weapons and Saving Face (add a modifier to a failed ability check, saving throw, or attack roll, 1 per ally within 30 ft to a max of 5). I'd add that in as a possible Major Trait. I'd probably add in don't need to eat, sleep, or breath and magic can't put you to sleep (ala Warforged) as a possible Major Trait. Also resistance is a Minor Trait? That seems to be undervaluing resistance a bit.

Theodoxus
2021-03-11, 01:26 AM
I considered the warforged traits, but these are supposed to be inherited/genetic or learned traits and those didn't seem to fit the concept.

As for resistances, yeah, they're kinda all over the place depending on their rarity. But I didn't want to get too granular with the first past. I could see Poison and Fire being Minor and the rest Major.

Greywander
2021-03-11, 01:59 AM
I like the idea, though I'm less sure about the value given to some specific traits. I'll have to look over this more thoroughly later before I can give my feedback on that end.

I second adding in warforged traits. They're generally good at representing any kind of construct or undead type of character, and this is all about customization, right? Maybe you had a great grandparent who was a vampire, or you were critically injured and had your body rebuilt by a tinkerer. Regardless of how it's justified, it will enable more types of character concepts.

Dienekes
2021-03-11, 08:03 AM
Echoing Greywander here. Good idea, but I’m curious on some of your placements. Most of the things you have under Prime Traits don’t stack up to free Feat. And some really don’t stack up against the others.

Some of it is that I disagree with their placement on Detect Greater Balance. For example I really do not think the Dragonborn’s breath weapon is worth 7, it’s weaker than a 1st level spell at level 1 and by the time it scales up mobs generally have enough hit points that using it is unwarranted, getting it refreshed on Short Rest is nice at lower levels, but doesn’t matter at the point that you aren’t going to use it at all anyway. It’s one of the problems of labeling all spells of the same level the same score. Getting Burning Hands at level 5, a generic damage spell that is 4 levels out of date with the enemy’s health is not the same as say Charm Person or Comprehend Languages, spells that open up entirely new strategies to playing the game or something like Faerie Fire which has an effect that’s useful for most the game.

But yeah, quibbling over the exact placement of certain abilities aside, this is good work.

Willie the Duck
2021-03-11, 08:55 AM
Echoing Greywander here. Good idea, but I’m curious on some of your placements. Most of the things you have under Prime Traits don’t stack up to free Feat. And some really don’t stack up against the others.

Agree, but: I think that, unless one were willing to go in and either 1) re-tinker with exactly what each 'ability previously granted to races' gets you, or 2) hand out a bunch of tangentially related perks to try to get the lower-end abilities on-par with the upper ones, you aren't going to be able get perfect balance out of these things. I think this is the kind of thing that will only really work in the first place if you have players who will make choices based on creating coherent character concepts over optimization (which is not to say that further effort to balance the thing would be wasted).

KorvinStarmast
2021-03-11, 09:17 AM
Size. You are Small or Medium (your choice). Given your introductory structure of"wouldn't one race overwhelm the others as hominids did on Earth?" I recommend that you constrain the size to Medium. (For my money, keeping the small player races was a mistake in 5e - and I've played a lot of hobbits/halflings over the years).

Beyond that you illustrate some of what is wrong with the way races are constructed in D&D 5e.

Cleaner approach would be:
One +2 ASI (but honestly, 3 +1's, with the option to +2/+1 or be like like the Triton) seems to me a better customization approach)
One Skill Proficiency
One Major Trait
One Minor Trait
One language beyond common.
One Feature.
-This is where the spell problem arises with races like drow or eladrin-
NO leveled spells at all, none - save spells for PCs choosing classes who are spell casters -
except that one cantrip as a Feature choice would likely fit.

The question is: is the Half Orc's most excellent "get up at 1 HP when dropped to 0 HP" equivalent to one cantrip?
I am not sure how to measure that, but those are some thorny apples to bicycles comparisons.

Your idea isn't a bad one - thanks for the time and effort you put into that! - but I think it is too fiddly, and particularly this:
In lieu of a Major Trait you can pick 2 additional Minor Traits . and this

In lieu of a Prime Trait you can pick 1 additional Major and Minor Traits or 2 additional Minor Traits instead.
and
this Darkvision. 60' of Darkvision (can be taken twice for 120') Please don't.

I'd leave the feat option out: leave it for vHuman or the Tasha's custom race. That's the trough where the optimizers can go to feed. :smallcool:

Lose the "don't need to sleep" and "trance" and "don't need to eat or drink" stuff. Unless you rebuild what a rest does or doesn't do, those features are already a mess.

Theodoxus
2021-03-11, 09:30 AM
Given your introductory structure of"wouldn't one race overwhelm the others as hominids did on Earth?" I recommend that you constrain the size to Medium. (For my money, keeping the small player races was a mistake in 5e - and I've played a lot of hobbits/halflings over the years)

I tend to agree. The singular drawback I have to that is the probable backlash from little people not being represented. Since genetic dwarfism is a thing, I am willing to keep small stature in there. But if the community at large is ok with removing small sized humanoids, I'd be ok with it. The Kor are basically medium sized halflings (trait-wise), so there is precedent for granting "small sized boons" to medium sized creatures.

On the whole, I really appreciate the feedback. I'll revise the list over the weekend. If anyone has specific ideas (additions, deletions and moving of traits) I'd love to hear it!

KorvinStarmast
2021-03-11, 09:44 AM
I tend to agree. The singular drawback I have to that is the probable backlash from little people not being represented. Since genetic dwarfism is a thing, I am willing to keep small stature in there. But if the community at large is ok with removing small sized humanoids, I'd be ok with it. The Kor are basically medium sized halflings (trait-wise), so there is precedent for granting "small sized boons" to medium sized creatures.
Yeah, that's a fair point; pulling it out might create backlash for modest or less mechanical value.
(And there is plenty of love for halflings (Damn you, Peter Jackson! :smallfurious: ))

What was behind my thinking was how the game mechanics for PCs really are built around medium sized PCs.

On the whole, I really appreciate the feedback. I'll revise the list over the weekend. If anyone has specific ideas (additions, deletions and moving of traits) I'd love to hear it! I need to devote more time to give you better feedback. Maybe this weekend.

Amnestic
2021-03-11, 09:45 AM
Any consideration for 'negative' traits such as sunlight sensitivity?

KorvinStarmast
2021-03-11, 09:48 AM
Any consideration for 'negative' traits such as sunlight sensitivity? Please, let's not do that. That strikes me as the boo boo that "-2 to INT" Volo's created.
The base game doesn't have negative traits - except for the drow PCs sunlight sensitivity, and that very trait makes their "fit" into a party a mess for any campaign that isn't based underground. Mind you, OotA is a drow's sweet spot, campaign wise).

For my money, Theo is smart to not include it.

Nefariis
2021-03-11, 02:53 PM
I completely and whole heartedly dig this.

This is what I thought was going to be introduced in Tasha'a and I was extremely disappointed when it wasn't.

I am going to bookmark this thread and however this is hammered out, is what I am going to use in my future games.

Awesome work!

Nefariis
2021-03-11, 04:42 PM
this Darkvision. 60' of Darkvision (can be taken twice for 120')

I don't see any issue with this, it uses two abilities.


In lieu of [...] you can pick 2 additional [...]

I would keep this in the first draft to see how people try and break the system first - then depending on that maybe revise or remove.


2) Feat. You gain a feat of your choice for which you quality.

Maybe change this to a half feat without the ASI gain part - munchkins going to munch


1) Breath Weapon. As the Dragonborn ability.

Is probably not prime unless you use the Con number of times per short rest rule.


Size. You are Small or Medium (your choice).

Let people play small characters if they want too, it's not breaking


As a side note, I don't see the Naga's ability of Magic Resistance on the list (Prime) or Half-Elf Skill versatility(Major?), or human skill versatility (Minor?). I think being able to choose more skills would definitely appeal to basket weavers of the group.

Waterdeep Merch
2021-03-12, 02:55 PM
Ahh, here's that thing I wanted to do but was loathe to put in the necessary time and effort. I'm making a Sleight of Hand check on all of this.

nickl_2000
2021-03-12, 03:03 PM
Ahh, here's that thing I wanted to do but was loathe to put in the necessary time and effort. I'm making a Sleight of Hand check on all of this.

Dang, you announced that you were going to steal this and I still didn't even see you do it. You must have one crazy mod (or rolled really well).

Nefariis
2021-03-15, 08:08 PM
I'm going to bump this -

I would love for the OP of this thread to receive more feedback - and I believe this is how races in 6e should work.

Greywander
2021-03-15, 09:47 PM
and I believe this is how races in 6e should work.
I like it as a variant option, but I'm not sure I'd want all races to be built this way. I'd worried that races would feel cookie-cutter and massed produced, like they're basically all the same just with some labels swapped around. Designing races in a less rigid way allows you to do interesting things that you wouldn't be able to in a rigid system.

It might make sense for each racial trait to be given a point value, or a label like the ones used here (e.g. major, minor, etc.). You could use the prebuilt race as-is; you could, with DM permission, take a pre-built race and swap one trait for a different one of the same value or lower; or you could build a custom race choosing from all possible racial traits with a set budget for points or trait labels. This would give us the best of both worlds, with hand-crafted races designed by the devs to feel interesting and unique, while also having the option to cobble together something ourselves if we want to, or possibly to use the custom race rules to homebrew entirely new races rather than just customizing a single character.

Nifft
2021-03-15, 10:29 PM
In lieu of a Prime Trait you can pick 1 additional Major and Minor Traits or 2 additional Minor Traits instead.

If you picked "1 major and 1 minor", you could trade the major in for +2 minor, for a total of 3 minor.

Suggest you make the latter option 3 (or more) minor.

da newt
2021-03-16, 08:33 AM
I like the idea. Wouldn't it work just fine if you simplified to:

small or med humanoid, appearance as you wish
27 pt buy
+2 ASI
1 Feat
2 racial traits (any)
1 ability / tool / weapon proff
1 language


I think the biggest issue with your proposal is grouping traits by power, so why not eliminate it?

Or at least change it to only major and minor - I'm a KISS proponent.

Dienekes
2021-03-16, 08:38 AM
I like the idea. Wouldn't it work just fine if you simplified to:

small or med humanoid, appearance as you wish
27 pt buy
+2 ASI
1 Feat
2 racial traits (any)
1 ability / tool / weapon proff
1 language


I think the biggest issue with your proposal is grouping traits by power, so why not eliminate it?

Or at least change it to only major and minor - I'm a KISS proponent.

Doesn't two traits (any) just make the problem much much worse since they're all considered equal? Ain't no way Pack Tactics and Shapechanger is the equivalent to Tinker.

KorvinStarmast
2021-03-16, 08:40 AM
I like the idea. Wouldn't it work just fine if you simplified to:

small or med humanoid, appearance as you wish
27 pt buy
+2 ASI
1 Feat
2 racial traits (any)
1 ability / tool / weapon proff
1 language


I think the biggest issue with your proposal is grouping traits by power, so why not eliminate it?

Or at least change it to only major and minor - I'm a KISS proponent. This is very close to my proposed 'simplification' but I'd advocate for a 28 pt buy ... personal opinion... and I'd suggest that feats remain optional ... to each their own.

EggKookoo
2021-03-16, 09:31 AM
With all the discussion on races and the new custom lineage, I'm seriously considering culling the "classic" races from my games. As I've noted in other threads, there's very little reason disparate sentient species would co-exist long on the same planet without one wiping out all the rest through legitimate superiority. It happened in our own distant past with different hominid species.

I'm not convinced that's true, especially the more advanced the average tribe or subculture becomes. Empathy starts to rear its head as the populace becomes more cosmopolitan. Yes, it does appear there were multiple hominids running around tens and hundreds of thousands of years ago. We don't know that there was one dominant branch that somehow managed to kill all the rest off (especially with flint-knapping being the state of the art at the time). It's just as likely to have been some large-scale climate event or other similar thing. Or that we ended up merging, as we think now happened to a considerable degree with Neanderthals.

Cultural domination is another story...

TigerT20
2021-03-16, 10:01 AM
I'm not convinced that's true, especially the more advanced the average tribe or subculture becomes. Empathy starts to rear its head as the populace becomes more cosmopolitan. Yes, it does appear there were multiple hominids running around tens and hundreds of thousands of years ago. We don't know that there was one dominant branch that somehow managed to kill all the rest off (especially with flint-knapping being the state of the art at the time). It's just as likely to have been some large-scale climate event or other similar thing. Or that we ended up merging, as we think now happened to a considerable degree with Neanderthals.

Cultural domination is another story...

Never mind that in our world they were taking up the same environment, rather than one living in treehouses and the other inside mountains.

Nefariis
2021-03-16, 11:44 AM
I'd worried that races would feel cookie-cutter and massed produced, like they're basically all the same just with some labels swapped around

I think a system like this would do the complete opposite, right now every class is playing the same 2-3 races.

How many orc wizards have you seen?

This new system lets you create an orc with a custom ancestry - the only cookie cutter aspect would come from the lack of creativity in peoples' back story.

I think were I get hung up on our current system is that, not only are not all races created equal, but some races essentially bar you from going into a class - and sure you can go into the class, but you are always going to be slightly behind your peers. I think creative players that want to create an orc wizard, should be able to create an orc wizard and not get (albeit small) "penalized".

At the very least in 6e I think they should change the ASI's to +2/+1 in anything you want - I think that would go a long way to adding a lot of customization to the game.

but what I would like to see is something like -

small/medium
28 pt buy
+2 ASI
1 Prime Trait (or possibly just 1 Feat and roll a few of the Prime Traits into feats (Pack Tactics for example))
1 Major Trait
1 Minor Trait
2 skills
1 tool / weapon proficiency
1 language

And get rid of backgrounds completely - I appreciate that it helps some players in fleshing out their character's motivations, bonds, and flaws - but the fact there are less than 50 means that this is a major source of that "cookie cutter" feeling - in addition, all the backgrounds have been ranked in numerous locations (including on here) according to their benefits and so most people only are using a handful of the "better" ones anyways.

Griswold
2021-03-16, 12:00 PM
2) 25 ft move speed, but not reduced by heavy armor.
3) 35 ft move speed. As the Woof Elf trait.


Since the penalty for not having enough strength is a 10' speed penalty, 3 is just a better version of 2.
I'd make it just be 30 ft move speed, not penalized by heavy armor.

Catullus64
2021-03-16, 03:38 PM
While we're busy in the overhaul, can we just take the opportunity to excise player Darkvision from the game entirely? I know I'm far from the first to suggest this, but it really hampers the game. It's strong and consequence-free enough that it feels like a handicap to play without it rather than a boon to play with it, a problem that is exacerbated by how many different races have it. And when you do have it, it strips the drama and danger of night and darkness from the game, as well as the visibility/vision dilemma of using light sources. It also spoils and confuses any light-based atmosphere the DM tries to use.

The only reason it still makes sense in base 5e is that some races have it as an assumed part of their balance, but if you're throwing that out and going for a granular approach, where it is just another modular piece, I would argue there's no better time to chuck it.

Waterdeep Merch
2021-03-16, 04:03 PM
While we're busy in the overhaul, can we just take the opportunity to excise player Darkvision from the game entirely? I know I'm far from the first to suggest this, but it really hampers the game. It's strong and consequence-free enough that it feels like a handicap to play without it rather than a boon to play with it, a problem that is exacerbated by how many different races have it. And when you do have it, it strips the drama and danger of night and darkness from the game, as well as the visibility/vision dilemma of using light sources. It also spoils and confuses any light-based atmosphere the DM tries to use.

The only reason it still makes sense in base 5e is that some races have it as an assumed part of their balance, but if you're throwing that out and going for a granular approach, where it is just another modular piece, I would argue there's no better time to chuck it.

I've been looking at having levels of darkvision myself, which can easily be utilized here. I also like the idea that any degree of darkvision hampers your ability to see in brighter light, though this could have the unintended consequence of the party building around certain lighting levels so everyone meshes- either everyone gets the best darkvision possible and fights in the dark, or no one does to abuse monsters that have it themselves. I'm not sure how big of a problem that really is, but it's a likely outcome.

dmhelp
2021-03-16, 04:25 PM
While we're busy in the overhaul, can we just take the opportunity to excise player Darkvision from the game entirely? I know I'm far from the first to suggest this, but it really hampers the game. It's strong and consequence-free enough that it feels like a handicap to play without it rather than a boon to play with it, a problem that is exacerbated by how many different races have it. And when you do have it, it strips the drama and danger of night and darkness from the game, as well as the visibility/vision dilemma of using light sources. It also spoils and confuses any light-based atmosphere the DM tries to use.

The only reason it still makes sense in base 5e is that some races have it as an assumed part of their balance, but if you're throwing that out and going for a granular approach, where it is just another modular piece, I would argue there's no better time to chuck it.

You could just make the only dark vision that exists come with sunlight sensitivity. Maybe throw in the 120’ with it.

PhantomSoul
2021-03-16, 05:41 PM
I've been looking at having levels of darkvision myself, which can easily be utilized here. I also like the idea that any degree of darkvision hampers your ability to see in brighter light, though this could have the unintended consequence of the party building around certain lighting levels so everyone meshes- either everyone gets the best darkvision possible and fights in the dark, or no one does to abuse monsters that have it themselves. I'm not sure how big of a problem that really is, but it's a likely outcome.

Alternatively, it could mean that people want to diversify the party; some members will be more effective scouts in bright light, while others will be more useful when it's darker and/or not bright light. The party then has more potential for niches, strategy or collaboration. I could see the outcome depending a lot on the table (but I'd love for there to be better lighting effects).

Catullus64
2021-03-16, 05:53 PM
Alternatively, it could mean that people want to diversify the party; some members will be more effective scouts in bright light, while others will be more useful when it's darker and/or not bright light. The party then has more potential for niches, strategy or collaboration. I could see the outcome depending a lot on the table (but I'd love for there to be better lighting effects).

For me, I mostly want darkness to be a relevant antagonistic force and legitimate source of dread; if you want its advantages (stealth), you have to accept its dangers (sharply limited environmental awareness, scary things can sneak up on you). I don't want there to be a solution as dull as "be a member of the right race... sorry, lineage." I'd prefer that all characters have roughly human-level vision.

rlc
2021-03-16, 08:14 PM
I’m expecting them to do something similar to this in 6e, but with more lineages

Theodoxus
2021-03-16, 10:37 PM
So, I was thinking more on this, and I'll probably need to go back and add more traits, but I think as a baseline, you'd present three distinct Lineages. Humanoids, least fantastical in scope, forms the base for the other two Lineages. Fantastical, your classic Aasimar, Eladrin, Genasi, Tieflings (otherwise known as 'Outsiders' in prior editions). They can choose from Humanoid traits, or from their own, more magical ones. And finally, Constructs, which can incorporate any Humanoid or Fantastical trait, but has the limitations of being a Construct.

It's still pretty rough-draft-y, but it's getting closer to what I'd want to use.

Humanoid
Instead of choosing one of the game's races for your character at 1st level, you can use the following traits to represent your character's lineage, giving you full control over how your character's origin shaped them:
Creature Type. You are a humanoid. You determine your appearance and whether you resemble any of your kin.
Size. You are Medium
Base Speed. Your base walking speed is 30 feet. (Can be modified by traits)
Ability Score Increase. You have 3 ASI. You can increase one attribute by a maximum of 2.
Prime Trait. You gain one trait of your choice from the Prime Trait list below.
Major Trait. You gain one trait of your choice from the Major Trait list below.
Minor Trait. You gain one trait of your choice from the Minor Trait list below.
Languages. You can speak, read, and write Common and one other language that you and your DM agree is appropriate for your character.

Prime Traits
1) Feat
2) Nimble Escape
3) Saving Face
4) Stone’s Endurance

Major Traits
1) Aggressive
2) Armor Training
3) Feline Agility
4) Naturally Stealthy

Minor Traits
1) 20 ft climb speed
2) Hold Breath
3) Nimbleness
4) Powerful Build
5) Savage Attacks
6) Speed not reduced by heavy armor
7) Surprise Attack
8) Tinker
9) Weapon Proficiencies
10) Wizard cantrip


Fantastical
Instead of choosing one of the game's races for your character at 1st level, you can use the following traits to represent your character's lineage, giving you full control over how your character's origin shaped them:

Creature Type. You are a celestial, elemental, fey or fiend. You determine your appearance and whether you resemble any of your kin.
Size. You are Small or Medium (your choice at creation)
Base Speed. Your base walking speed is 30 feet. (Can be modified by traits)
Ability Score Increase. You have 3 ASI. You can increase one attribute by a maximum of 2.
Prime Trait. You gain one trait of your choice from the Prime Trait list below.
Major Trait. You gain one trait of your choice from the Major Trait list below.
Minor Trait. You gain one trait of your choice from the Minor Trait list below.
Languages. You can speak, read, and write Common and one other language that you and your DM agree is appropriate for your character.

Prime Traits
You can choose any Humanoid trait, or pick from below:
1) Breath Weapon. Usable as a bonus action, 1/SR
2) Fey Step.
3) Grovel, Cower and Beg.
4) Shapechanger.

Major Traits
You can choose any Humanoid trait, or pick from below:
1) Darkvision. 60' of Darkvision (can be taken twice for 120')
2) Long-limbed. As the Bugbear trait.
3) Lucky. As the Halfling trait.
4) Major Natural Armor. Your AC is 13 + Dexterity modifier.


Minor Traits
You can choose any Humanoid trait, or pick from below:
1) 35 ft move speed.
2) Amphibious.
3) Cunning.
4) Fey Ancestry.
5) Mask of the Wild.
6 Minor Resistance
7) Minor Natural Armor..
8) Silent Speech.
9) Speak with small beasts.
10) Trance.


Construct
Instead of choosing one of the game's races for your character at 1st level, you can use the following traits to represent your character's lineage, giving you full control over how your character's origin shaped them:
Creature Type. You are a Construct. You determine your appearance and whether you resemble any of your kin. You don’t need to eat, drink or sleep and you don’t suffer the effects of exhaustion due to lack of rest, and magic can’t put you to sleep.
Size. You are Small or Medium (your choice at creation).
Base Speed. Your base walking speed is 30 feet. (Can be modified by traits)
Ability Score Increase. You have 3 ASI. You can increase one attribute by a maximum of 2.
Prime Trait. You gain one trait of your choice from the Prime Trait list below.
Major Trait. You gain one trait of your choice from the Major Trait list below.
Minor Trait. You gain one trait of your choice from the Minor Trait list below.
Languages. You can speak, read, and write Common and one other language that you and your DM agree is appropriate for your character.

Prime Traits
You can choose any Humanoid or Fantastical trait, or pick from below:
1) AC is 17
2) Pack Tactics
3) Flight (non-winged flight equal to your base walking speed)

Major Traits
You can choose any Humanoid or Fantastical trait, or pick from below:
1) Relentless Endurance
2) Toughness
3) Major Resistance (pick one from Acid, Cold, Lightning, Necrotic, Radiant or Thunder)

Minor Traits
You can choose any Humanoid or Fantastical trait

TigerT20
2021-03-17, 06:26 AM
And get rid of backgrounds completely - I appreciate that it helps some players in fleshing out their character's motivations, bonds, and flaws - but the fact there are less than 50 means that this is a major source of that "cookie cutter" feeling - in addition, all the backgrounds have been ranked in numerous locations (including on here) according to their benefits and so most people only are using a handful of the "better" ones anyways.

Aren't backgrounds fully customisable? Do you mean background features?

rlc
2021-03-17, 06:52 AM
Aren't backgrounds fully customisable? Do you mean background features?

Yeah, I’m pretty sure that the choosing a background makes for less cookie cutter characters than in previous editions. They’re still going to exist, but there are at least more cutters.

Nefariis
2021-03-17, 12:40 PM
Aren't backgrounds fully customisable? Do you mean background features?

Yes, I mean the features mostly - some features are definitely better than others and that leads to GOLD backgrounds in guides, so everyone feels compelled to only play those few backgrounds. For 6e I would either like to see the skills, languages, tools rolled into race/lineage and starting class or, only a custom background option where you explain why you have 1-2 skills, 1-2 languages, 1 tool, etc - and then multiple d100 tables for bonds, flaws, traits, etc.

I really do like the flaws/traits, I think it helps players (especially new players) get into character easier - I just want to get rid of anything where 90% of players pick one of 5 options


While we're busy in the overhaul, can we just take the opportunity to excise player Darkvision from the game entirely?

I would love to get rid of darkvision!

Amnestic
2021-03-18, 05:12 PM
The only background feature I really rate as 'overpowered' is outlander for essentially deleting the need for rations unless you're in a barren wasteland.

I don't think any of the others ('cept the Ravnica ones for obvious reasons) warrant "must-haves"?