Wizard cares about his apprentice, unique?

[aglondier]

Years ago, I played a FR campaign that lasted well into the epic range. My wizard had many apprentices over the years, and ensured that each of them was prepared and equipped to survive those first few levels out on their own.

Levels 1 to 4 are a bad time for wizards, few hit points, poor defences, relatively weak dps, and a very small pool of power.

To fix this for my apprentices, I commissioned combat robes (+1 AC, 0% spell failure), and gave them a "wand" that cast a lesser magic missile (auto hit for 1d3) once per round.

Now, I know that starting funds for wizards is limited, but what kind of things could you come up with to have your wizard characters master "gift" you to adventure with at 1st level.

[Quertus]

"Familiarity" with (summoned, Simulacra of, etc) every creature.

Adventure with them for those first few levels.

Unless WBL is a physical law of the universe, let them borrow that random loot that you were just going to sell anyway. ("Your last task is to take these items to market for me. Be back with the gold / this item I want to trade them for within a year.")

A casting (manifestation) of Psionic Contingency or Contingent Teleport or whatever else is fundamentally "free", set to trigger when they would otherwise die.

Two castings of PaO.

(Mostly) not what you were looking for, but… just felt like pointing out how very strangely hated most apprentices must be, given how many ways their masters could have better prepared them.

[aglondier]

(Mostly) not what you were looking for, but… just felt like pointing out how very strangely hated most apprentices must be, given how many ways their masters could have better prepared them.

It kinda feels like that...

"Right, you've got your spellbook..."

"With the measly two first circle spells you allowed me to copy."

"You've got your trusty staff..."

"The long stick I found on the side of the road."

"Yes, your wizard's hat and robes..."

"My sleeping cap and bathrobe."

"Looks like you're all set...now bugger off."

[MoiMagnus]

(Mostly) not what you were looking for, but… just felt like pointing out how very strangely hated most apprentices must be, given how many ways their masters could have better prepared them.

To be fair, that's the case for a good half of the classes. Wizard/Cleric/Druid/etc, all of those classes have in their lore the existence of an underlying institution (mentorship, church, etc) that should probably guide you, protect you from danger, and give you some significant material advantages, up until you reach mid level.

I mean, obviously, you can have a tragic backstory of your master being killed by the BG, or you could be running away from your abusive master, etc. But starting your adventure at level 1 without being supervised and helped by more experienced character should probably be the exception in-universe (but PCs are always exceptional, for good and bad). The average wizard apprentice is probably still travelling in company of his master up until level 5 or something.

[Glimbur]

Back in my day, we had to adventure ourselves! I killed a goblin with a rusty knife and I was grateful for the opportunity! Not like you kids these days with your "can I have a scroll of extended Mage Armor" and "where could I find just a small adventure?" We looked at the map, found where it said Here Be Dragons, and we went there!

[Jazath]

Back in my day, we had to adventure ourselves! I killed a goblin with a rusty knife and I was grateful for the opportunity! Not like you kids these days with your "can I have a scroll of extended Mage Armor" and "where could I find just a small adventure?" We looked at the map, found where it said Here Be Dragons, and we went there!

Hard to find old fashioned values like that anymore..... :smalltongue:

Anyway, all of these sound really swell.

I would also throw in there some spellbooks with handy and necessary spells for survival, depending on if you have the resources for such a thing. Which I'm sure he does.

[Kelb_Panthera]

It kinda feels like that...

"Right, you've got your spellbook..."

"With the measly two first circle spells you allowed me to copy."

"You've got your trusty staff..."

"The long stick I found on the side of the road."

"Yes, your wizard's hat and robes..."

"My sleeping cap and bathrobe."

"Looks like you're all set...now bugger off."

"Look here you ungrateful little... *sigh*

That book is worth hundreds of gold pieces. Your farmer father would have had to work his whole life to be able to afford it for you. A staff is better than being completely unarmed and I told you you'd be be better served by a light crossbow and a dagger until you got better at magic.

And it's not my responsibility to dress you. I was being polite, ya little wierdo. Put some breeches on for Boccob's sake.

*Begins muttering to self* I swear... ya spend a couple -years- giving tutelage to these entitled little buggers and do you get a 'thank you master?' No. You get 'don't you have any more free stuff for me?" *indistinguishable grumbling continues*"

Seriously though. That spell book with only 3 or 4 first level spells also has 30+ cantrips in it and represents the single greatest monetary value of -any- class' starting equipment by a long-shot, save the archivist's equivalent prayer book. Even the fighter's generous starting gold pales in comparison. It's enough that if you want to start at 1st level as a wizard that -doesn't- have a master you have to come up with an extraordinary explanation for how you got something that can be traded for a nice house in the city. You could cheese your WBL pretty hard by starting as a wizard then retraining to some other class and selling off that spellbook. At even half its value it'll put you -way- ahead of the curve for a level 2 character.

From a meta perspective, it feels kinda small. In-world, though, it's a stupdendous amount of value to be handing over to someone that's very likely to just go and get himself stabbed to death by a goblin.

[Silent Alarm]

I believe it would entirely depend on the origins and finances of the Wizard in question and even then, most couldn't or wouldn't invest too much into their apprentices beyond what they reasonably believe they could handle and furthermore, the type of relationship between the master and apprentice.

For example, the Apprentice feat in the DMG2 allows a Spellcaster to scribe spells from their master's spellbook at no cost beside the cost of actually scribing them (100 gp per level of the spell). Normally this access could be viewed as a reasonable reward for apprenticeship and a shortcut to learning any advanced spells the mentor may hold that you might want further down the line, which is entirely DMs fiat. However then there is the roleplaying dynamic of a mentor. Does your mentor like you? Does your mentor actively want to keep you alive? Is your mentor wealthy enough, resourceful enough, to be able to expend resources on an apprentice who might just be there to cut and run on their life's work? It depends.

I like to reference Complete Arcane on this one.


As with any art requiring extensive amounts of training and considerable time to master, the knowledge of magic is often passed from one generation to the next by means of a long apprenticeship. The master–apprentice relationship is a time-honored tradition among arcane spellcasters. As with any more mundane vocation, the challenges of arcane apprenticeship begin with finding an experienced mage with an interest in teaching. While few arcanists feel any obligation to take on the task of instructing a neophyte in the ways of magic, most mages (even evil ones) feel at least a vague sense of duty to the arcane arts themselves, and they understand the wisdom of passing on some of their own learning to those who will follow them. At the same time, even the most willing masters feel entitled to seek some compensation for taking on an apprentice, from the mundane (payment in gold to train the daughter of a wealthy merchant) to the influential (gifts of office or property for mentoring the child of a local lord) to the sinister (the complete and abject servitude of an apprentice from a family otherwise too poor to pay). Evil mages in particular often command the allegiance of their apprentices for years after their formal training ends. While neutral mages usually place less onerous conditions on the teaching of their lore, most will at least ensure that their costs and time are adequately covered while the apprentice in question works hard to earn his keep. Only the most charitable of good mages considers mentoring an apprentice for free. Even after a relationship is established, the quality of instruction can vary widely from master to master, and, as many hopeful mages have learned, the most powerful wizards and masters alike engage in deep arcane studies, sharing with each other many of their own special insights into rare bits of arcana or spellcraft.

Magical training is expensive. Often parcels of land, large payouts and rewards that could reasonably fill out an adventurer's wealth by level are easily on the table for training someone in magic. If they can pay of course. This of course is not subject to magic being more accessible in your campaign setting ranging anywhere from simply walking down the street to pick up a spellbook like a starter deck of your favorite TCG, to being the subject of an entire questline. If learning magic is simple, then I see no reason why your standard Wizard's adventuring kit might include a collection of all 1st level and 0th level spells in the PHB they can make use of as well as a robe that grants them a +1 to AC, a hat with a +2 bonus to spellcraft, and a wand of "minor missile".

Personally? A character I am running at the moment has the Mentor feat, and he gave his Apprentice (an NPC that is now following us) a couple of masterwork tools of Spellcraft, a starting spellbook with a few additional spells, gave them a wand of magic missile I bought for them, and a schema of shield. They are easily starting out better than my own character ever could dream of.

[Crake]

Y'all acting like every mage that ever taught another mage had to have been at the end of an extensive adventuring career? 20th level mages don't apprentice level 1 mages, they apprentice 15th-16th level mages, preparing them for 9th level spells. The people apprenticing those 1st level fledgeling mages are likely only 3rd or 4th level mages themselves, if we're talking a relatively magic-infused society where such a heirarchy could reasonably exist. The spells in that 1st level mage's book likely represent a significant portion of their master's own repertoire, and the remaining spells are ones that "you aren't ready for my young apprentice (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouAreNotReady)".

If you are indeed getting mentored by a 20th level mage, or even a 10th level mage, then you're probably not starting your adventuring career at level 1.

[Quertus]

Y'all acting like every mage that ever taught another mage had to have been at the end of an extensive adventuring career? 20th level mages don't apprentice level 1 mages, they apprentice 15th-16th level mages, preparing them for 9th level spells. The people apprenticing those 1st level fledgeling mages are likely only 3rd or 4th level mages themselves, if we're talking a relatively magic-infused society where such a heirarchy could reasonably exist. The spells in that 1st level mage's book likely represent a significant portion of their master's own repertoire, and the remaining spells are ones that "you aren't ready for my young apprentice (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouAreNotReady)".

If you are indeed getting mentored by a 20th level mage, or even a 10th level mage, then you're probably not starting your adventuring career at level 1.

I've clearly been doing it wrong all these years.

Note to self: get me some young and impressionable groupies much earlier in my career.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Since physical items can be copied without too much trouble for someone with a mind and power to do so (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?246396-Another-Addition-To-The-Tippyverse), just give them a full-body makeover (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?177889-Brainstorm-for-Psionic-Tricks-Tactics-and-Combos-Handbook&p=23285432&viewfull=1#post23285432), along with a nice Boccob's book filled with all your 0-3rd level spells known, a ring of wizardry I, some nice miss chances (based on different reasons for said miss chances, so they'd stack), an acorn of far travel from a tree with sources of regeneration, fast healing, and the heal spell (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?546179-Un-Hallow-that-Stacks), a necklace of adaptation, a +1 metalline/morphing/sizing/warning/eager shuriken with a stacked weapon crystal (including the ghost touch one), a +1 morphing/sizing shuriken turned into a poison ring and enhanced as a planar ring gate (cursed to only work for allies of the wizard) paired with one in the wizard's genesis sanctum, and a ring of superior invisibility/telekinesis/sustenance combo. Oh, and a belt of magnificence +6.

Should be good to go, after that.

[Crake]

I've clearly been doing it wrong all these years.

Note to self: get me some young and impressionable groupies much earlier in my career.

I mean, leadership is available as early as level 6 :smalltongue:

[aglondier]

Yes...I could see an older wizard investing that kind of resources in his apprentice...

I was more looking for ideas that could fall within the 100 or so gp average starting cash for a wizard character that would greatly improve their survival rate...

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Yes...I could see an older wizard investing that kind of resources in his apprentice...

I was more looking for ideas that could fall within the 100 or so gp average starting cash for a wizard character that would greatly improve their survival rate...Well, if all the items I mentioned are technically free (because he had them already, and he obviously had all that stuff set up beforehand, because it's free money; why wouldn't he?), I mean...

[aglondier]

Well, if all the items I mentioned are technically free (because he had them already, and he obviously had all that stuff set up beforehand, because it's free money; why wouldn't he?), I mean...

So, you are honestly saying that you, as a GM, would approve a first level starting character having all that gear. Really.

...

[MaxiDuRaritry]

So, you are honestly saying that you, as a GM, would approve a first level starting character having all that gear. Really.

...Well, I'd tell the player(s) that they would be facing stronger challenges to compensate, of course. But if this were real life and I was the high level caster with apprentices that I cared about? I'd be outfitting the heck out of them.

[Crake]

Well, I'd tell the player(s) that they would be facing stronger challenges to compensate, of course. But if this were real life and I was the high level caster with apprentices that I cared about? I'd be outfitting the heck out of them.

Why would you not just also train them up to be more competent than 1st level spells then, aka, start at a higher level?

[Quertus]

So, you are honestly saying that you, as a GM, would approve a first level starting character having all that gear. Really.

...

Why not?


Why would you not just also train them up to be more competent than 1st level spells then, aka, start at a higher level?

Because my Divinations say that they'll learn faster going out and slaying goblins :smallbiggrin:

[Vizzerdrix]

Yes...I could see an older wizard investing that kind of resources in his apprentice...

I was more looking for ideas that could fall within the 100 or so gp average starting cash for a wizard character that would greatly improve their survival rate...

Hmm... eggshell grenades, shapesand, acid flasks, and a masterwork gnome calculus are things I would give my apprentice. Alchemicals preform very nicely up to about level 5 or 6, and that loadout covers tactical withdraws, non combat problems, and decent ranged attacks(don't bother getting training with the GC. You are at a -3 yes, but that is against touch AC so isn't a big deal).

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Why would you not just also train them up to be more competent than 1st level spells then, aka, start at a higher level?That wouldn't be terribly difficult, given that you can go from level 1 to epic in a week or so -- or a few minutes if you've got a high level caster on your side.

But maybe it's the fact that large amounts of unearned power tends to go to people's heads, leading to individuals going full Karen.

NEVER go full Karen!

[Jack_Simth]

Apparently not entirely unique, as Pathfinder's got an item that includes "It is frequently given as a gift to apprentice spellcasters upon completing their tutelage" in the description: The Staff of Minor Arcana (https://aonprd.com/MagicStavesDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Staff%20of%20Mino r%20Arcana). There's also a Divine Version (https://aonprd.com/MagicStavesDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Staff%20of%20Bles sed%20Relief).

[Calthropstu]

Ha. I'd loan my apprentice a rod of wonder and say "good luck lad!"

I'd then planar bind an invisible stalker to keep him alive. He'd get 3 free get out of death free cards.

If he tried to sell the rod, the stalker would steal it and bring it back to me and be dismissed. After three times of getting him out of dire trouble, he'd steal back the rod and return it to me. If the apprentice returns the rod before a year, the stalker is dismissed (getting a bonus for not needing the stalker to save them.)

I have more important things to do than waltz around low level quests. And if the lad can't make it on his own, then it's better off he perish quickly, bdfore he accumulates power to be stolen by fiends or the like.

[Firebug]

Permanency: Resistance. +1 resistance bonus for 500 xp isn't a bad deal, especially if you have some way to get that XP back.
Permanency: Animate Objects for a defender of some sort. Maybe do the whole Fantasia wizard's broom thing. This is much more expensive though at 3k xp.

Slightly less Core and more expensive(running off this permanency list (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=4544.0)):
Permanency: Girallon's Blessing + Fuse Arms. 3k xp, but effectively +8 or more to the Strength of the Apprentice. Why be a wizard at low levels when you can hit like a barbarian?
Permanency: Major Resistance, only 1k xp but +3 resistance bonus. Superior Resistance is 2.5k xp for +6, which is higher than a cloak...
And of course, research other spells for Permanency... Like maybe a weakened form of Mage Armor, Magic Vestment, False Life, etc.

Not sure about 3.5 (I think eternal wands were a thing?), but Pathfinder has a pretty good quarterstaff for low level wizards, Quarterstaff of Entwined Serpents (https://aonprd.com/MagicWeaponsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Quarterstaff%20o f%20Entwined%20Serpents). 5,050 gp, at-will CL 3 magic missile and you count as having Eschew Materials when holding it. It's also a +1 weapon. Pathfinder has unlimited cantrips, so its less important that you can blast all day from an item. You could probably adapt that to your 'lesser magic missile' fairly easily. Or just houserule cantrips to be at-will... though Cure Minor Wounds likely needs to be modified. In my world(with unlimited cantrips), Cure Minor Wounds is a minute cast-time and can only heal you up to 50%.

Speaking of Healing, make sure they have a Healer's Belt (http://dnd.arkalseif.info/items/magic-item-compendium--73/healing-belt--500/index.html) for 750gp. Being able to heal 6d8 over a day is very useful low level.

[Maat Mons]

Actually, I've been thinking lately about the idea of higher-level adventurers giving things to lower-level adventurers. The scenario I was imagining was more along the lines of a younger relative, than an apprentice. And I wasn't thinking about any class in particular.

The first thing that came to mind was a Handy Haversack. Great for low-Strength characters who want to be prepared for every eventuality. I'm pretty sure we have a handbook around here on filling a Handy Haversack with useful items.

The second two things to come to mind were Everlasting Rations and Everfull Mug. This was an extension of the Haversack, in my mind. More space in your bag of tricks if said bag doesn't also have to contain a bunch of food and water for your journey.

The next thing that came to mind was the ever-popular Wand of Cure Light Wounds. Though that's kind of only appropriate to characters that can actually use it. And it would be more a gift for an adventuring party as a whole. Not just one individual. I mean, you can give it to one individual, but the charges are going to wind up being spent on everyone in the party.

So, naturally, this lead me to Healing Belt. The healing item that everyone can use. It's an appropriate gift for anyone. And even if they use charges on allies, well it's not "used up" in any permanent way. So they still have the gift you gave them. And that's the important thing with gift giving. Making sure that the recipient thinks about how awesome and generous you are every time they look at the gift.

I briefly considered full plate, for warrior-types. It's definitely something they'll be wishing they had, at least for those first few levels. But everyone always sells their old armor. So it lacks the permanence that makes for a good gift. If you wanted there to be any chance they'll keep it forever, you'd need to make it out of whatever material they think is most awesome. And if that material doesn't make the item inherently masterwork, throw that in too.

That was where my mind left off on my thought experiment before I stumbled into this thread. Looking through MIC, and trying to keep each item below 3,000 gp, some more possibilities are: Anklet of Translocation, Crystal of Adaptation, Enduring Amulet, Everburning Torch, Everlasting Feedbag, Hand of the Mage, Magic Bedroll, Restful Crystal, and Sending Stones.

Okay, now that I've done my tabula rasa response, time to actually read the thread.

Edit:

Okay, so you're looking for the player character to be the recipient of these gifts, at the start of his career. I was thinking more like the player character is the one doing the giving, and after he's gotten to higher level, when the things I listed aren't a big expense for him.

I'd argue that some of the things I listed would be perfectly balance for the DM to let players start with, in a addition to their normal starting wealth. Handy Haversack, Everlasting Rations, and Everfull Mug definitely fall into this category. But in the interests of fairness, if one player is allowed such boons, the other players should be given something of similar value.

The Wand of Cure Light Wounds would be fair to give to just one party member. As I said before, even if only one person is technically the owner of the wan, it's going to benefit everyone. In a way, it's just saving the DM from having to carefully place healing items in the first adventure the group shares.

As far as just buying something with your starting gold, and fluffing it as a gift from your master? Nothing, really. Anything cheap enough to fit within your budget won't have anything more than sentimental value on very short order. If you want to have a narrative of being well-served in the long term by some useful boon from your mentor, you'll need DM buy-in.