UA: Folk of the Feywild

[Crucius]

https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthedarcana/folk_feywild

*Where is jaappleton when you need him most? :P*

[ProsecutorGodot]

I understand that grid based movement and combat are a variant rule but I already dislike Rabbit Hop on principle of it being nearly unusable at a table that uses those variants. Feywild Hobgoblin is probably better in all respects than the standard unless you really need the armor and weapon proficiency on a caster.

Feywild is weird, I don't have a lot of personal knowledge of it. Looks interesting, though the volatility (in terms of how drastically they change if they see print) of recent UA has steered our table away from allowing it.

[jaappleton]

https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthedarcana/folk_feywild

*Where is jaappleton when you need him most? :P*

You rang?

I was picking up my kids from daycare when this dropped.

Anyone still doubt my Feywild book proclamation?

EDIT: I gave the UA a skim, I’ll read it more in depth a bit later.

I’m not too terribly keen on any of those particular races. Shocked Fairy aren’t Tiny (or am I thinking of Pixies?), but aside from that, no big issues (but everyone knows I’m very much pro-player regarding balance, so take that with a shot of penicillin). I don’t particularly like the Hobgoblins here, I very much prefer Volo’s. Rabbitfolk make excellent Rogues. Cue the anthro art!

[micahaphone]

huh, neat. According to a guy on reddit who got his candlekeep mysteries order early, there's some higher CR fey stuff in that book. Nice to see more fey stuff coming.



they all get floating +2/+1 or +1/+1/+1, wow. Could make a great monk or paladin.

The fairy is size small, so they're colossal fairies. but they can shrink to fit through a 1 inch gap?

fey hobgoblin is interesting, getting a PB uses of a super-help bonus action, can make a super helper divine soul sorc with that. It gets points with me for being interestingly different from the volo's hobgoblin.

Owlfolk? and faeries? all the flying player races I guess.


Oh man, rabbitfolk can ignore the ****ty jump rules, that's so great!

[Amnestic]

Two flying races.

Not sure how I feel about that.

[jaappleton]

Two flying races.

Not sure how I feel about that.

We already have Aaracokra and Winged Tiefling for awhile now. Just more options to say no to if they’re not your thing.

Fey Origin, IMO, is a huge trap. “Oh I’m not Humanoid, so I can’t be targeted by Hold Person!”

Yeah but you’re susceptible to Turn the Faithless, Protection from Evil and Good, etc.

[Lord Vukodlak]

You rang?

I was picking up my kids from daycare when this dropped.

Anyone still doubt my Feywild book proclamation?

EDIT: I gave the UA a skim, I’ll read it more in depth a bit later.

I’m not too terribly keen on any of those particular races. Shocked Fairy aren’t Tiny (or am I thinking of Pixies?), but aside from that, no big issues (but everyone knows I’m very much pro-player regarding balance, so take that with a shot of penicillin). I don’t particularly like the Hobgoblins here, I very much prefer Volo’s. Rabbitfolk make excellent Rogues. Cue the anthro art!

Tiny raises some issues, small characters have weapon limitations what do you think tiny would do?

Rabbitfolk swashbucklers, dex, charisma and prof to initiative.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Yeah, an Archfey in one adventure gets statted up. Read somewhere that there's like less than 50 Fey creatures throughout the 5e monster books, so more is definitely good.

Now if only wizards would get around to writing the fey blood sorcerer.

[king_steve]

None of the new race options are dual type, so I wonder if that means they gave up on that after the Gothic Lineages UA? Not sure, we'll have to see when Van Richten's guide is out.

I'm kinda surprised the Fairy doesn't have Fey Ancestry.

I also think the Hobgoblin of the Feywild looks a bit over tuned. The bonus action helps + additional effects and Fortune of the Many? That feels like a bit much to me.

[x3n0n]

Is Hobgoblin 3rd level as silly as it looks?


Starting at 3rd level, choose one of the options below each time you take the Help action, whether as a bonus action or an action:

Hospitality. You and the target of your Help action each gain a number of temporary hit points equal to 1d6 plus your proficiency bonus.

Even between combats, "you want a hand with that Perception check?"
With your familiar?

(Not to mention the BA Help during combat; there it seems to be working as designed.)
Seems like better than Fiendish Vigor starting at 3rd level.

[P. G. Macer]

I’m still not thrilled that WotC is still sticking to the free-floating ASIs as the default from now on, but I will say that I enjoy the races themselves far more than the Gothic Lineages! I’m also glad that WotC has ditched the dual-creature-types again; I guess the feedback on their unintuitive mechanisms paid off.

I’m also interested in that WotC is experimenting with flying races again. The last time they did was with the Avariel/Winged Elf, which never made it to actual publication, unlike the Sea Elf and Shader-Kai from the same article, which made it to Mordenkainen’s Tome of Foes. Another interesting thing about the flight here is that the flying speed is explicitly equal to the race’s walking speed, because the Aarakocra had wildly divergent speeds. While Sage Advice clarified that boosts to general movement speed boost alternate movement speeds too—so things like the Monk’s Unarmored Movement, the Barbarian’s Fast Movement, and the Tasha’s Ranger’s Roving from Deft Explorer, but not the Glory Paladin’s Aura of Alacrity—but I suspect they changed it to avoid confusion and/or cheese, and to allow things like Aura of Alacrity to be compatible.

I will say that I’m a little peeved that they came out with Owlfolk a day or two after I theorized an Aarakocra Gloom Stalker build designed to be reflavored as an owl-person. :smallyuk:

[ATHATH]

Oh, come on, they made fairies Small with the ability to squeeze through tiny gaps instead of just making them Tiny? I can sort of get why they're so hesitant to add Large races, but I thought that that was because they WotC was worried that they wouldn't be able to fully participate in more tightly constrained dungeons. Tiny races (that can fly, no less!) shouldn't run into those issues, and they certainly wouldn't break dungeon designs/dungeon flows more than a Small race that can always squeeze through 1 inch wide gaps would. Isn't UA supposed to be taking risks and testing the waters on stuff like Tiny races?

But hey, at least fairies are full Fey like satyrs are (IIRC).

[Millstone85]

Shocked Fairy aren’t Tiny (or am I thinking of Pixies?)Me too. I had headcanoned that "fairies" was a collective name for Tiny fey like pixies, sprites and quicklings.

[ProsecutorGodot]

Is Hobgoblin 3rd level as silly as it looks?



Even between combats, "you want a hand with that Perception check?"
With your familiar?

(Not to mention the BA Help during combat; there it seems to be working as designed.)
Seems like better than Fiendish Vigor starting at 3rd level.

It does require for your DM to rule that it's a check that you actually can aid them on. The most prevalent situation that I know of, in the case of a familiar making a perception check, involves them being flying which puts them far away from where anyone could actually offer help.

[Kane0]

Wow, fairies and rabbits are good.

[Amnestic]

Guessing the faeries being small instead of tiny is because of square-sharing concerns?

[Luccan]

This would be the third way to be a bird person in 5e.

The flight mechanics for both Fairy and Owlfolk imply a lot that isn't stated in entries Winged Tiefling or Aarakocra, IIRC, and probably should be if they aren't.

I don't like the Fey hobs, they definitely seem overtuned and generally better than regular hobgoblins. Also not fond of how it explicitly calls out Bugbears and Goblins also being from the Feywild and then doesn't give us subraces for those either (I assume that will happen if this goes forward, but. Also also, I don't think I like D&D goblins being fey in the first place.

[P. G. Macer]

Another thing I just realized is that Wizards re-added skill proficiencies to races after eschewing the very idea of it going forward in the GL UA; it’s also worth noting that they seem to be even possibly backtracking from Tasha’s itself with this, as the skills in question (the owl folk’s Silent Feathers and the Rabbitfolk’s Leporine Senses) are based off anatomy and biology, rather than culture. It’s still weird that the example of skill-swapping they used in Tasha’s was the Elf’s Keen Senses, given that it is pretty much the only racial skill that can be justified as biological, along with the Tabaxi’s Cat’s Talent. In fact, Perception and Stealth are in my opinion the skills for which it is easiest to justify as biological rather than cultural.

[Lord Vukodlak]

None of the new race options are dual type, so I wonder if that means they gave up on that after the Gothic Lineages UA? Not sure, we'll have to see when Van Richten's guide is out.

I'm kinda surprised the Fairy doesn't have Fey Ancestry.


It’s not ancestry you are a fey. Having fey ancestry seems to give you resistances for charm but most fey in monster manuals have no such bonuses.
Of course having a non-humanoid type makes you immune to several spells and even monster abilities.

[jaappleton]

I don't like the Fey hobs,

I swear to Moradin that I initially read this as,

“I don’t like the Fey hobos”

[Gyor]

Two flying races.

Not sure how I feel about that.

They just made Aacrokcra Adventure League legal for the first time and last season they made the Winged Tieflings and Winged Aasimar were legal.

That tells me that they now feel that concerns over races that can fly at level 1 were overblown that they don't mess up adventures in practice, which honestly I agree with.

[Luccan]

I swear to Moradin that I initially read this as,

“I don’t like the Fey hobos”

Lol. Feygrants just seemed harsher

I dunno, I'll give this a closer look after work. I find the rabbitfolk interesting, has that been done in previous editions? D&D usually seems to stick with cats, birds, reptiles, and amphibians for it's beastfolk.

[Carpe Gonzo]

I like these. At least conceptually. I like the idea of fey hobgoblins -- explains their hatred of elves more naturally. Also makes me want to re-imagine dwarfs being related to giants (and gaining the giants' elemental thing they have going on). I think the fey hobgoblins might need their own name though like how fey elves are now eladrin.

The small fairy that can shrink squeeze through one-inch gaps is a clever solution. I still prefer my homebrew solution for tiny-sized player pixies but it is more complex of a solution than what WotC would want to have to deal with.

I like how rabbitfolk can choose to be either small or medium. I think their hop ability should probably just be "you constantly have the benefits of the jump spell." This gives you the equivalent of a ring of jumping without letting it stack. Alternatively it could be something like "you can disengage as part of your move." Getting +1d12 to movement every turn just sounds like a hastle.

[x3n0n]

It does require for your DM to rule that it's a check that you actually can aid them on. The most prevalent situation that I know of, in the case of a familiar making a perception check, involves them being flying which puts them far away from where anyone could actually offer help.

Fair; I think it's plenty good enough when you're just helping your party member so both of you get free THP on demand (outside combat-like scenarios, so that action economy isn't a concern).
As I mentioned, I think this is working as designed if "Hospitality" only activated with the special bonus action, and maybe even to taking the Help action *in combat*.

[ATHATH]

I'm personally fine with the extra flying races; aarakocra will still have their niche as being a race with a really fast flying speed.

Feywild!Hobgoblins look like they'd make killer Mastermind Rogues, which I personally think is fine. The temporary HP thing should probably only last, like, one round, though, to prevent it from becoming Inspiring Leader+. And, uh, it should be noted that while Saving Face was a 1/short rest ability, Fortune from the Many is a proficiency bonus/long rest ability, which is a bit concerning. That should probably be toned down to being a 1/short rest ability to match Saving Face, because it's kinda looking scarily like a level 1, self-only Aura of Protection right now. On the other hand, if both of those two abilities get nerfed, I kind of feel like Volo's hobgoblins would become the nearly strictly superior version, due to getting medium armor proficiency.

A rabbitfolk Lore Bard with the Alert feat can get a dummy high bonus to their initiative score (although rabbitfolk sadly don't get the Jack of All Trades bonus to initiative), which I think is pretty funny/not a bad thing. If you want to go all the way, you can throw in Lucky too to reroll your lower intiative rolls and/or a War Wizard 2 dip to get +INT to initiative.

I like owlfolk getting Detect Magic as a ritual, that's cool. Would it be gamebreaking for them to just get always-on or at-will (single action casting time) Detect Magic, though, possibly without even needing concentration for it? Eh, maybe, especially considering that they're already a flying species. Perhaps always-on Detect Magic could be given to a grounded species or something, then.

I also like that these racial spells can be cast using your spell slots; that's really nice to have if you want to lean into your species's capabilities as a significant part of your character concept.

[Gyor]

Something I realized is spells and potions that increase your size don't change any other racial feature then your size, so a Fairy Rune Knight who is huge size can still squeeze thru a 1 inch hole LMFAO. If its fluff is that it magically temporarily alters its size to fit, that is amusing, but makes sense no matter its current size then.


Also the only setting mentioned in this is the Forgotten Realms, just as Undead Pact UA foreshadowed Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft.


The only D&D settings that have major ties to the Feywild are the Forgotten Realms and Nerath,the rest predate the Feywild and weren't updated to include it unlike FR, or have their own seperate Fairy Realm (Eberron).


Is this somekind of Feywild Setting Book, a part of a FR book, or a Monster Book Volo's Guide to Monsters Style. I just don't know.


Honestly I thought the rumoured Feywild book was supposed to an Adventure and those generally don't include major player facing options, with Tyranny of Dragons Genasi playable race being the only exception, which was never repeated.


If this has the same turn around as they Gothic Lineages, then it could be for a July release.


Of course it could be in say a FR setting book and still have a tie in adventure set in the Feywild later in September.


I'm just not sure what to make of it.


I do like this feywild influenced Hobgoblin better then Volo's, volo's was boring, although I'll note this Hobgoblin is still humaniod, not fey, only the Fairy is Fey.

[Carpe Gonzo]

Kind of surprised there's no kitsune. Oh well, DMsGuild has plenty of 'em.

[Gyor]

Lol. Feygrants just seemed harsher

I dunno, I'll give this a closer look after work. I find the rabbitfolk interesting, has that been done in previous editions? D&D usually seems to stick with cats, birds, reptiles, and amphibians for it's beastfolk.

No Owlfolk, Fairy, and Rabbitfolk as playable races are new to D&D, although Pixies were playable in 4e.

[Telwar]

Another thing I just realized is that Wizards re-added skill proficiencies to races after eschewing the very idea of it going forward in the GL UA; it’s also worth noting that they seem to be even possibly backtracking from Tasha’s itself with this, as the skills in question (the owl folk’s Silent Feathers and the Rabbitfolk’s Leporine Senses) are based off anatomy and biology, rather than culture. It’s still weird that the example of skill-swapping they used in Tasha’s was the Elf’s Keen Senses, given that it is pretty much the only racial skill that can be justified as biological, along with the Tabaxi’s Cat’s Talent. In fact, Perception and Stealth are in my opinion the skills for which it is easiest to justify as biological rather than cultural.

Huh. Yeah, that's a little funny. I expect some hoo-ha about "well these are kinda fey types and LOOK OVER THERE!"


They just made Aacrokcra Adventure League legal for the first time and last season they made the Winged Tieflings and Winged Aasimar were legal.

That tells me that they now feel that concerns over races that can fly at level 1 were overblown that they don't mess up adventures in practice, which honestly I agree with.

I'm assuming they're going to pare down the owlfolk, since that gets probably more utility out of its flight than the aarakocra. It's shorter, but more explicitly matched to walking speed, and has a reaction to avoid fall damage. And instead of a natural weapon, they get darkvision and stealth proficiency, and detect magic as a ritual and/or spell known.

[jaappleton]

No Owlfolk, Fairy, and Rabbitfolk as playable races are new to D&D, although Pixies were playable in 4e.

Well.... Not entirely correct. But partly correct.

4E had the Hengeyokai. A rather obscure race, they were half humanoid, half animals. And they could be a huge variety of animals, each with different benefits. Sparrows could fly, some could burrow, etc. They could become full animals, being little bunnies or crows, etc. as well as assume a hybrid form.

Their splash art was a rabbitfolk, actually.

It wasn’t rabbitfolk specifically, but rabbitfolk certainly fell under their umbrella.

[verbatim]

90 feet of darkvision on the Owl without sunlight sensitivity is neat.

I like the idea of letting players choose between small and medium for certain races (rabbitfolk/owlfolk), hopefully we see more of that going forward.

[jas61292]

These are... interesting.

Not a big fan of races not having a set size. That just seems awkward. It would be one thing to have subraces that determine size, but just not having a set one at all feels off.

And I'm still not a fan of race based flight, as I really think it messes with things until high levels.

Also, as has been mentioned, the rabbitfolk ability to get 1d12 extra feet of movement just feels weird. If you want them to be able to move faster, just give them a speed of 35 or 40. If you want them to be good at jumping, say that their jump distance calculation is different than the standard. Either or both of those things would be fine. But as is it is weird and messes with anyone that does grid based play without any particularly good reason.

Beyond that though, I like these. Despite my dislike of flight, Owlfolk in particular are of interest to me. I have always liked owls, and I like how they both captured the essence of them with the great darkvision and stealth, while also folding in Detect Magic in a way that makes them feel wise and perceptive, but without being too overbearing, as it might be if they just had it always on.

Finally, while I'm still not a fan of the direction they have chosen regarding racial ASIs, I will say that I at least find their wording about it here to be less.... irritating. It neither tries to paste over the past, nor does it seem to imply that a rule deemed optional is now standard. It may very well be that this is how it will always be in the future, but at least it doesn't feel like they are being duplicitous like it did in the last UA.

[Gyor]

Well.... Not entirely correct. But partly correct.

4E had the Hengeyokai. A rather obscure race, they were half humanoid, half animals. And they could be a huge variety of animals, each with different benefits. Sparrows could fly, some could burrow, etc. They could become full animals, being little bunnies or crows, etc. as well as assume a hybrid form.

Their splash art was a rabbitfolk, actually.

It wasn’t rabbitfolk specifically, but rabbitfolk certainly fell under their umbrella.

Good point, but the Rabbitfolk and Owlfolk don't seem to be Hengeyokai, they appear to be their own races, they aren't shapeshifters that can pass as human. These races seem to fit better in Alice in Wonderland then the Hengeyokai who fit in Japanese mythology/folklore.

The only none shapeshifting Rabbit themed race WotC has is the ones for Kamigawa, but Kamigawa don't have Owlfolk, and Strixhaven will have Owlfolk, but not Rabbitfolk (at least based on the art so far, but could be wrong).

So these appear to be completely new D&D races. Faeries always previously seemed to be overarching catagory of creatures in D&D, so Faeries as race is new, seperate from Nixies, Pixies, and Sprites. I think like Rabbitfolk and Owlfolk they should have medium options.

Do you think they would put this into a Feywild Adventure Book?

[J-H]

Boring.

The loss of racial ASIs hurts with loss of flavor or giving a hint towards what sort of roles a species will gravitate to. Hobgoblin is the most powerful, I think.

Not interested in seeing any of these at my table. Solid "meh" plus not something that will fit easily into most settings.
Definitely going to skip whatever book these are from.

[Wizard_Lizard]

Well... time to make some fairies...

[MaxWilson]

Boring.

The loss of racial ASIs hurts with loss of flavor or giving a hint towards what sort of roles a species will gravitate to. Hobgoblin is the most powerful, I think.

Not interested in seeing any of these at my table. Solid "meh" plus not something that will fit easily into most settings.
Definitely going to skip whatever book these are from.

: (

I feel the same. 5E apparently jumped the shark with Tasha's Cauldron of Everything.

[Gyor]

Boring.

The loss of racial ASIs hurts with loss of flavor or giving a hint towards what sort of roles a species will gravitate to. Hobgoblin is the most powerful, I think.

Not interested in seeing any of these at my table. Solid "meh" plus not something that will fit easily into most settings.
Definitely going to skip whatever book these are from.

Honestly they'd really only fit into the Forgotten Realms, Nerath, or with variant lore, Eberron. No other setting has major links in its lore to the Feywild (or Eberron equivilant).

[Gyor]

: (

I feel the same. 5E apparently jumped the shark with Tasha's Cauldron of Everything.

Like I've been saying Tasha's is a minor edition change, as far as I'm concerned its the fourth core book. Their is two 5e eras, pre Tasha, and post Tasha.

I personally love these races, but they really need more lore to back them up, to help show how they fit into the Feywild/Forgotten Realms.

[P. G. Macer]

: (

I feel the same. 5E apparently jumped the shark with Tasha's Cauldron of Everything.

Thirded on the racial ASI issue. While I liked the racial traits this UA did include, those they didn’t still stand out to me.

[Dork_Forge]

I know it's appropriate for setting books, but this still gives me the feeling of 'more races, really?'

Race bloat has been huge in 5e, and this latest bout will just be a significant creep up in power:

-Put your ASIs where you want them and dice them up how you like. Flavourless and powerful, divorced of the Tasha's rules specifically so it makes it harder to say no reallocation when it's part of the race itself.

-All of these small races with 30ft movement just bug me, it was one thing when it was the monstrous races, but common.

-Yes we already have flying races, no the ability to fly in and of itself isn't a problem, doubling the amount of options to do so doesn't make sense imo though. The only thing that really screams flight when I think of fae are pixies, tbh I never though Feywild=birdfolk

-Adding prof mod to initiative, really? That's going to lead to a stupid modifier quick, a Swashbuckler bunny with Alert and a +3 Cha will be up to a +12 at 10th level, with plenty of space to go higher. Nevermind the Gloomstalkers, War Wizards, Chronurgists and people under the effects of a Twilight Cleric's Vigilant Blessing or a Watcher Paladin's aura. The game didn't need nor benefits from this.

-Hobgoblin in general feels like too much, super buffing help action as well as Fey Ancestry and a reworded Saving Face? You could just walk around spamming Help with both action and bonus action and be a fully effective support character without any class features.

Not a fan, and we still didn't get Hedgehog folk, bah. Bah!

[Zhorn]

bleh, more free floating ASI garbage.
will review the rest later.

[Dragonsonthemap]

This is continuing the odd trend of hobgoblins feeling like what humans should be, to me.

I think that the hobgoblins need a bit of rebalancing and I'm not the happiest with racial skill proficiencies coming back - it just feels like there's far more interesting ways to convey that flavor. I principle I'm a fan of these, however, and will probably try to work them into a setting.

[Grey Watcher]

Given the fluff as all about how the feywild is super unpredictable and therefore fey creatures are all super-duper-extra unique, moveable ability scores make perfect sense here*, even if you're sticking with fixed ability scores for the traditional races.

For me, what sticks out is that we had Powerful Build as a pseudo-Large size for PCs. Now we have pseudo-Tiny size PCs with Fey passage.

Also interesting to note that there are apparently no gear or encumbrance restrictions on Flight anymore. As much as I love me some visuals like a Dragonborn in armor flying, no strings attached flight from Level 1 feels like a bit much.

*Admittedly, I don't really understand the problem with moveable ability scores in the first place, as it always seemed to me to be a pretty trivial change. So there's almost certainly some bias in my reading here. But that's all way off-topic anyway.

[P. G. Macer]

Given the fluff as all about how the feywild is super unpredictable and therefore fey creatures are all super-duper-extra unique, moveable ability scores make perfect sense here*, even if you're sticking with fixed ability scores for the traditional races.

For me, what sticks out is that we had Powerful Build as a pseudo-Large size for PCs. Now we have pseudo-Tiny size PCs with Fey passage.

Also interesting to note that there are apparently no gear or encumbrance restrictions on Flight anymore. As much as I love me some visuals like a Dragonborn in armor flying, no strings attached flight from Level 1 feels like a bit much.

*Admittedly, I don't really understand the problem with moveable ability scores in the first place, as it always seemed to me to be a pretty trivial change. So there's almost certainly some bias in my reading here. But that's all way off-topic anyway.

You raise a good point about the lack of restrictions on flight. Normally, I’d just chalk it up to something that’s added later in the design process, but the one flying race we’ve seen in UA, the unpublished Winged Elf/Avariel, did in fact have armor and encumbrance restrictions on it in the UA article. I’m going to give Wizards of the Coast the benefit of the doubt and say they simply forgot, and should the flying races here see publication, they will have armor and encumbrance restrictions added. It does feel sloppy, though.

[ProsecutorGodot]

I’m going to give Wizards of the Coast the benefit of the doubt and say they simply forgot, and should the flying races here see publication, they will have armor and encumbrance restrictions added. It does feel sloppy, though.

Unlikely that they forgot, considering the Fairy goes out of its way to specify that the flight is magical and isn't even reliant on the use of their (possibly nonexistent) wings.

Vulnerable to an Anti-Magic Zone though.

[jaappleton]

we still didn't get Hedgehog folk, bah. Bah!

You never will, they’d all have 400ft movement speed and only come in blue.

Anyways.

To everyone going on about the free floating ASIs:
I get it. I understand the frustration.

However, I’m sorry to be the one to outright state it so matter of factly: They are not moving away from this. They just aren’t.

What I think would be a nice middle ground, going forward, is to state something along the lines of, “The Rabbitfolk are often particularly fast and wise”. You get an inclination of what their ASIs would be, without WOTC having to actually go through the process of handling it the old way.

Tasha’s marked the beginning of 5.5E. It’s just what it is.

And it’s far from the first edition to do so. They changed from 3.0 to 3.X because.... Well, original 3.0 was flat out screwed up in numerous ways. It was. Math just wasn’t right.

In 4th edition... Well, look, that had its own set of problems (I know, I played it for years). But at one point every race got a third ASI option. Eladrin, for example, could be +Dex and +Int or +Cha, you got to choose. I’m a bit surprised that WOTC didn’t go this route instead of the free floating ASIs, but the fact is, they didn’t.

Heck, I thought they would have let you swap well before they went for floating. Want your Hill Dwarf to be +2 Wis and +1 Con? I never thought they’d go floating stats with this edition.

They went for the free floating ASI and they aren’t backing down from that one. I know many lament it. I understand why. I do wish they’d at least give an inkling of “Yeah they’re usually +2 ____ & +1 ____” for those that prefer it the other way. Or even if they didn’t want to flat out give the numbers +2 and +1, or whatever, just give some inclination in the description so it’s inferred, and the people who want it could go from there.

Alas... I don’t know what to say. Wish I had better news for the “I want the old stat method” crowd. Sorry.

[Jerrykhor]

Interesting note on Hobgoblins: Hospitality can be used to give free Temp HP or Speed, as long as the Help action is not using a Bonus Action. That seems pretty powerful for a racial. Also there seems to be no limit on the buffs a target can receive, so it can potentially receive all 3 buffs as long as the Hobgoblin has the time to use 3 Help actions.

[Tanarii]

I won't buy any more 5e products that contain incomplete races without fixed ASIs. It's that simple and I'll tell them that in the feedback.

[Valmark]

Interesting note on Hobgoblins: Hospitality can be used to give free Temp HP or Speed, as long as the Help action is not using a Bonus Action. That seems pretty powerful for a racial. Also there seems to be no limit on the buffs a target can receive, so it can potentially receive all 3 buffs as long as the Hobgoblin has the time to use 3 Help actions.

It works on bonus actions too- essentially they give/gain a free minor buff (or debuff in case of Spite) every time they Help. Given how often Help is used (in my experience) this isn't very good outside of specific situations.

Spite being an exception- if you're fighting an enemy whose damage comes from few big attacks then disadvantage on one of them gets way better, and that's not too situational.

[Luccan]

Wow, just took a closer look at hobgoblin. So, they get the one unique feature of the original, but better, on top of everything else? I really hope this thing doesn't get printed even close to as is, that's completely ridiculous. I can't see this not replacing the original hobgoblin for any character.

Edit: Oh, yeah. No restrictions on weight or armor for the flight ability either. Both Owlfolk and Fairy get more features than Winged Tiefling and Aarakocra. I'm thrilled they're not worried about flight anymore, I just hope this doesn't turn into another instance of the designers realizing they messed up and then refusing to go back to fix their previous mistakes. It probably will be, but I hope not. I assume they're going to standardize the "you can cast racial spells with spell slots" thing, which I think should have been the case from the beginning. Proficiency to initiative is really good, but I actually think Rabbitfolk is kind of boring. Definitely gives me the "I'm not rabbiting my way through adventures, so why am I a rabbit?" feeling. Other than Perception, all your features are geared toward combat.

[Jerrykhor]

It works on bonus actions too- essentially they give/gain a free minor buff (or debuff in case of Spite) every time they Help. Given how often Help is used (in my experience) this isn't very good outside of specific situations.

Spite being an exception- if you're fighting an enemy whose damage comes from few big attacks then disadvantage on one of them gets way better, and that's not too situational.

The bonus action Help only has number of uses = proficiency bonus, so its not spammable.

[MaxWilson]

You never will, they’d all have 400ft movement speed and only come in blue.

Anyways.

To everyone going on about the free floating ASIs:
I get it. I understand the frustration.

However, I’m sorry to be the one to outright state it so matter of factly: They are not moving away from this. They just aren’t.

What I think would be a nice middle ground, going forward, is to state something along the lines of, “The Rabbitfolk are often particularly fast and wise”. You get an inclination of what their ASIs would be, without WOTC having to actually go through the process of handling it the old way.

Tasha’s marked the beginning of 5.5E. It’s just what it is.

And it’s far from the first edition to do so. They changed from 3.0 to 3.X because.... Well, original 3.0 was flat out screwed up in numerous ways. It was. Math just wasn’t right.

In 4th edition... Well, look, that had its own set of problems (I know, I played it for years). But at one point every race got a third ASI option. Eladrin, for example, could be +Dex and +Int or +Cha, you got to choose. I’m a bit surprised that WOTC didn’t go this route instead of the free floating ASIs, but the fact is, they didn’t.

Heck, I thought they would have let you swap well before they went for floating. Want your Hill Dwarf to be +2 Wis and +1 Con? I never thought they’d go floating stats with this edition.

They went for the free floating ASI and they aren’t backing down from that one. I know many lament it. I understand why. I do wish they’d at least give an inkling of “Yeah they’re usually +2 ____ & +1 ____” for those that prefer it the other way. Or even if they didn’t want to flat out give the numbers +2 and +1, or whatever, just give some inclination in the description so it’s inferred, and the people who want it could go from there.

Alas... I don’t know what to say. Wish I had better news for the “I want the old stat method” crowd. Sorry.

But, WotC doesn't own this forum, and they're not the only makers of 5E material, let alone D&D material. It's still relevant for us to say "I don't like this."


I won't buy any more 5e products that contain incomplete races without fixed ASIs. It's that simple and I'll tell them that in the feedback.

For me it's not that simple. As in, I object to the bloat and power creep as well as the insipid design principles. Even if they said Fairies get +2 to Cha and +1 to Dex I probably still wouldn't be interested, just as I rather regret buying Tasha's because the subclasses and magic items and feats and options in it do not seem like an improvement. It's not just about the refusal to commit to ASIs, it's about product quality, as perceived by me the disappointed consumer.

However. There's lots of other things in life to invest in.

[Dork_Forge]

You never will, they’d all have 400ft movement speed and only come in blue.

...That speed wouldn't be far off


Anyways.

To everyone going on about the free floating ASIs:
I get it. I understand the frustration.

However, I’m sorry to be the one to outright state it so matter of factly: They are not moving away from this. They just aren’t.

What I think would be a nice middle ground, going forward, is to state something along the lines of, “The Rabbitfolk are often particularly fast and wise”. You get an inclination of what their ASIs would be, without WOTC having to actually go through the process of handling it the old way.

Tasha’s marked the beginning of 5.5E. It’s just what it is.

And it’s far from the first edition to do so. They changed from 3.0 to 3.X because.... Well, original 3.0 was flat out screwed up in numerous ways. It was. Math just wasn’t right.

In 4th edition... Well, look, that had its own set of problems (I know, I played it for years). But at one point every race got a third ASI option. Eladrin, for example, could be +Dex and +Int or +Cha, you got to choose. I’m a bit surprised that WOTC didn’t go this route instead of the free floating ASIs, but the fact is, they didn’t.

Heck, I thought they would have let you swap well before they went for floating. Want your Hill Dwarf to be +2 Wis and +1 Con? I never thought they’d go floating stats with this edition.

They went for the free floating ASI and they aren’t backing down from that one. I know many lament it. I understand why. I do wish they’d at least give an inkling of “Yeah they’re usually +2 ____ & +1 ____” for those that prefer it the other way. Or even if they didn’t want to flat out give the numbers +2 and +1, or whatever, just give some inclination in the description so it’s inferred, and the people who want it could go from there.

Alas... I don’t know what to say. Wish I had better news for the “I want the old stat method” crowd. Sorry.

Isn't the big difference here that they openly acknowledged and rebranded as 3.5? This hasn't been a rebranding at all, it's just an abrupt change of direction in the middle of an edition. Honestly I'd feel better about the whole thing is they owned up and said it's 5.5.

The racial powercreep isn't okay regardless though.


Interesting note on Hobgoblins: Hospitality can be used to give free Temp HP or Speed, as long as the Help action is not using a Bonus Action. That seems pretty powerful for a racial. Also there seems to be no limit on the buffs a target can receive, so it can potentially receive all 3 buffs as long as the Hobgoblin has the time to use 3 Help actions.

You can impart those benefits with either a bonus action or standard action, so you could be handing out benefits twice a turn.

Major red flags here are:

-There's absolutely nothing stopping that ability applying to a Mastermind Rogue, at will, ranged buffing

-The temp hp doesn't have a time limit, so will last until you long rest. So you can help with a skill check and be more prepared for combat? It makes no sense thematically or balance wise

-The benefits are at will at all, prof bonus per long rest would have been adequate and powerful enough


I think these easily compete for the most powerful races, not the top slot perhaps, but clearly superior than most.

[whateew]

I won't buy any more 5e products that contain incomplete races without fixed ASIs. It's that simple and I'll tell them that in the feedback.

Why not? Fixed ASIs surely don't mean a race is incomplete, they can successfully characterise a race as having excellent warriors or brilliant mages without fixed ASIs, and could easily fail to give them meaningful characteristics despite having ASIs. Personally, I really like the new direction.

[ProsecutorGodot]

But, WotC doesn't own this forum, and they're not the only makers of 5E material, let alone D&D material. It's still relevant for us to say "I don't like this."

It seems more productive to focus on creating community material that addresses the issue (for those who perceive it as one) because if Tasha's has indicated anything (which it has done so strongly) it's that this is going to stay and no amount of feedback will change it.

Of course, there is still the opportunity that enough pushback will see some concessions made, at least suggesting a "standard array" seems worthwhile even if floating bonuses will become the norm. We've got until May before the Ravenloft book sees print and cements these changes as the standard with Gothic Lineages.

[MinimanMidget]

Am I the only one who finds this whole "X uses per short/long rest" thing kind of unbearable? Ever since, like, Xanathar's, it feels like every new class feature is its own resource pool, and we're seeing it more and more in racial features, too.

I get that they didn't mostly didn't create unified resources in the first place, and when they did they got them horribly wrong (ki points), but every time a session doesn't end on a long rest the next one inevitably has a bunch of "how many times did you use your [whatever] last session?"

[Ogun]

I like the Hobgoblin leaning into the traditional folklore of a helpful fey.
I love the rabbitfolk, I agree that the jump mechanics should be much simpler.

[MaxWilson]

It seems more productive to focus on creating community material that addresses the issue (for those who perceive it as one) because if Tasha's has indicated anything (which it has done so strongly) it's that this is going to stay and no amount of feedback will change it.


I don't know if the material has to be community-created per se, but I am grateful to whoever pointed me to Cthulhu Mythos for 5E (https://petersengames.com/the-games-shop/cthulhu-mythos-for-5e-pdf/) because whatever disappointment I had over Tasha's is more than made up for by this thing. I'm eager to try some high-level Malazan-style intrigue adventures using this material (with backup PCs starting off at first level but leveling up offscreen), because I think the game balance might actually work! E.g. a 20th level Barbarian is not inferior to a minionmancer when it comes to repelling a manifestation of Hastur or Cthulhu.

So anyway, I'd love to keep on having discussions and recommending stuff that is useful to everybody including those who do or don't use Tasha's, but I'm not sure that community-created content is needful. There's some great stuff already out there.

[Lavaeolus]

Something someone pointed out to me: since Fairy Flight is explicitly not tied to your actual wings, it probably would continue to work as a Wild Shaped Druid. Flying bear, ho.

[Gyor]

...That speed wouldn't be far off



Isn't the big difference here that they openly acknowledged and rebranded as 3.5? This hasn't been a rebranding at all, it's just an abrupt change of direction in the middle of an edition. Honestly I'd feel better about the whole thing is they owned up and said it's 5.5.

The racial powercreep isn't okay regardless though.



You can impart those benefits with either a bonus action or standard action, so you could be handing out benefits twice a turn.

Major red flags here are:

-There's absolutely nothing stopping that ability applying to a Mastermind Rogue, at will, ranged buffing

-The temp hp doesn't have a time limit, so will last until you long rest. So you can help with a skill check and be more prepared for combat? It makes no sense thematically or balance wise

-The benefits are at will at all, prof bonus per long rest would have been adequate and powerful enough


I think these easily compete for the most powerful races, not the top slot perhaps, but clearly superior than most.

They usually don't directly call out and name minor edition changes, 3.5e being the exception, because they want to emphasis compatibility with previous material. Major edition changes are the ones that get emphasized.

They never admitted the Essentials line was the beginning of a major edition change for 4e for example.

[whateew]

Something someone pointed out to me: since Fairy Flight is explicitly not tied to your actual wings, it probably would continue to work as a Wild Shaped Druid. Flying bear, ho.

This is a big deal! A moon druid fairy is a major menace (perhaps fitting the fairy schtick!), but I don't ever see any DM allowing this practically - then again, without ranged attacks perhaps this isn't too busted?

[MaxWilson]

Something someone pointed out to me: since Fairy Flight is explicitly not tied to your actual wings, it probably would continue to work as a Wild Shaped Druid. Flying bear, ho.

Just keep thinking those happy thoughts about honey!

Flying Giant Octopus might be even more interesting, since (1) it makes you faster, which is normally an issue for giant octopuses, and (2) grapple enemies and then drop them for falling damage + prone.

[ProsecutorGodot]

So anyway, I'd love to keep on having discussions and recommending stuff that is useful to everybody including those who do or don't use Tasha's, but I'm not sure that community-created content is needful. There's some great stuff already out there.

"Community created" was probably a poor choice of phrasing. Third party is something I had intended to be included in that tag, the 5E supplement you mention here is exactly what I'm talking about as far as having a community fill a perceived gap in content.

5E already had "madness" and "horror" but someone (rightfully so, considering the barebones implementation by default) decided that could use some expansion.

It goes all the way from the top (creating entire new mechanics, monsters or player options) all the way to the bottom, suggesting and using your own racial ability scores in place of the ones offered by WotC. The game actively encourages you to fix what you don't like.

[werescythe]

Out of the four races, I like Owlfolk (I just really like it). I kind of like the concept of the Rabbitfolk, but I will admit that the jump is weird.

Feywild Hobgoblin seems unnecessary and the Fairy is just... weird. :smallconfused:

[diplomancer]

Boring.

The loss of racial ASIs hurts with loss of flavor or giving a hint towards what sort of roles a species will gravitate to. Hobgoblin is the most powerful, I think.

One thing I just realized about this; it's very unfriendly to newbies (to be honest, I feel like this about racial bloat in general, but this new optional yet mandatory rule makes it worse); though it doesn't work for ALL races, the traditional ASIs helped them to races whose abilities were synergistic to some classes; the best example here is the half-orc. Now, when they are creating a character, they have to, after deciding on their class, consider ALL the racial options (and there are way too many of them).

Just do your job of giving ASIs and then tell players they can move it around, for goodness sake!



Also, as has been mentioned, the rabbitfolk ability to get 1d12 extra feet of movement just feels weird. If you want them to be able to move faster, just give them a speed of 35 or 40. If you want them to be good at jumping, say that their jump distance calculation is different than the standard. Either or both of those things would be fine. But as is it is weird and messes with anyone that does grid based play without any particularly good reason.

There are "quick and dirty" ways to try to adjust it to a grid; 1d3 squares if you are feeling generous, 1d3-1 squares if you aren't (with 1d12' on a grid, you have a 1/3 chance of not moving a square at all, a 1/4 chance of moving 2, and a 5/12 chance of moving 1; 1d3-1 is close enough to that, it just increases by 1/12 your chance of moving 2 squares, while decreasing by 1/12 your chance of moving only 1).

I'd be generous; using a racial ability that does nothing at all 1/3 of the time is no fun. Maybe just 1d2?



The racial powercreep isn't okay regardless though.



You can impart those benefits with either a bonus action or standard action, so you could be handing out benefits twice a turn.

Major red flags here are:

-There's absolutely nothing stopping that ability applying to a Mastermind Rogue, at will, ranged buffing

-The temp hp doesn't have a time limit, so will last until you long rest. So you can help with a skill check and be more prepared for combat? It makes no sense thematically or balance wise

-The benefits are at will at all, prof bonus per long rest would have been adequate and powerful enough


I think these easily compete for the most powerful races, not the top slot perhaps, but clearly superior than most.

I agree that the Fey Gift 3rd level ability needs a nerf, and I'm sure it will be; just make it work only in tandem with the regular BA Fey Gift that's limited by proficiency bonus and it should be fine.

As to whether these are the most powerful races... they are very good, but there's some novelty bias there; we've been used by now to powerful abilities that other races confer, and so the new ones feel more powerful, I believe.

[Dork_Forge]

They usually don't directly call out and name minor edition changes, 3.5e being the exception, because they want to emphasis compatibility with previous material. Major edition changes are the ones that get emphasized.

They never admitted the Essentials line was the beginning of a major edition change for 4e for example.

I can understand the logic behind that, but it feels very.. well not good.

Tasha's has effectively created a breaking point that will be colloquially known as 5.5e, but for those that aren't aware, they're going to stumble into a minefield of unevenly balanced content. Nevermind the ethos changes like racial stat changes, proficiency moving, and multiclassing-lite feats.

With the race bloat ever increasing (it's understandable, they crammed too many race options into previous products and now have nowhere but up with setting releases) and the idea of pre Tasha's balancing apparently a concept lost to the winds of time, 5e is going to get very messy in the next couple years with the increased pace of books. The stupid thing is there was absolutely no reason for it to get to this point.

[Valmark]

There are "quick and dirty" ways to try to adjust it to a grid; 1d3 squares if you are feeling generous, 1d3-1 squares if you aren't (with 1d12' on a grid, you have a 1/3 chance of not moving a square at all, a 1/4 chance of moving 2, and a 5/12 chance of moving 1; 1d3-1 is close enough to that, it just increases by 1/12 your chance of moving 2 squares, while decreasing by 1/12 your chance of moving only 1).

I'd be generous; using a racial ability that does nothing at all 1/3 of the time is no fun.



Grids do have a rule already in place- if you can get into a square with even just 1 foot you are considered to be part of that square. So 1-5 will be one square, 6-10 will be two squares, 11-12 will be three (I could be misremembering it).

Yes, it's basically a slightly worst version of 1d3 squares.

EDIT: I guess with a DM that cares about the exact position within a square it might be a problem, but I'm not sure anybody does that.

All of this? It's me being an idiot.

[diplomancer]

Grids do have a rule already in place- if you can get into a square with even just 1 foot you are considered to be part of that square. So 1-5 will be one square, 6-10 will be two squares, 11-12 will be three (I could be misremembering it).

Yes, it's basically a slightly worst version of 1d3 squares.

EDIT: I guess with a DM that cares about the exact position within a square it might be a problem, but I'm not sure anybody does that.

All of this? It's me being an idiot.

Haha, don't mind, I almost made the same mistake, quoting the PHB and everything; right before I pressed the submit reply button, I reread what I was quoting myself and realized the rules say "one square left" and not "one foot left". Maybe some old text had it as foot?

[Amnestic]

they're going to stumble into a minefield of unevenly balanced content.

Thankfully 5e was perfectly balanced before Tasha's.

:)

[diplomancer]

Thankfully 5e was perfectly balanced before Tasha's.

:)

"It wasn't balanced before, so let's unbalance it even more"
Doesn't look like a structurally sound design principle to me.

To be fair, I think Tasha DID balance better some things, like the buffs to Rangers and Monks, or Investment of the Chain Master as a way to balance the improved familiars; but I'd say the overall effect of Tasha's was further unbalancing.

One other problem with the now-ubiquitous moving ASIs; with the "traditional" races, a DM who dislikes moving ASIs can simply say "no" to the variant rule of moving ASIs; though they might ban races for setting or balance reasons, there were no races that he'd have to ban on general principle; for all these new races, these are the choices those DMs have:

1- "bite the bullet" and allow them as they are (after all, even in core there are races with moveable ASIs, like V. Humans and Half-Elves);

2- homebrew some fixed ASIs for them; not too difficult (I'd suggest +2Dex, choice of +1 Int or +1 Cha for Fairies, +2 Wis, +1 Dex for Owlfolk, +1 Con,+1 Int,+1 Cha for Hobgoblins, and +2 Dex, +1 Con for Rabbitfolk¹) but annoying and, as Tanarii has mentioned, feels like the published races are "incomplete";

3- not allowing the races in the first place.

I fear number 3 will be the choice for most of those DMs.

Edit: ¹ why Con for rabbitfolks? Because rabbits, Wink, Wink, Nudge, Nudge, say no more

[MoiMagnus]

Why not? Fixed ASIs surely don't mean a race is incomplete, they can successfully characterise a race as having excellent warriors or brilliant mages without fixed ASIs, and could easily fail to give them meaningful characteristics despite having ASIs. Personally, I really like the new direction.

I guess it's a "vote with your wallet". Even if the new content is still playable and interesting, 5e is its current state is fully playable and doesn't absolutely need new content. There is no reason to continue giving money to a company when you don't need its product and disagree with the direction it takes.

I'm personally fine with this new direction. But on the other hand, races are the thing I care the least in D&D (I'm probably more interested by additional backgrounds than by additional races, and as I am writing this message I am unable to remember the race of one of my PC teammate despite the fact that we played weekly for a semester), so I guess "I don't care" would be more accurate.

[Amnestic]

"It wasn't balanced before, so let's unbalance it even more"
Doesn't look like to me a structurally sound design principle.

Good job that's not what I said!

Anyway, tired of the flexible ASIs argument, gonna move on, no one's convincing anyone.

Fey type on fairies is probably a net gain for early levels, not so sure about later tiers.
Taken from this reddit post (https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/5rgw5f/spells_by_affected_creature_types/) they're vulnerable to the following:


Detect Evil and Good (1st level)

Dispel Evil and Good (5th level)

Divine Word (7th level)

Forbiddance (6th level)

Hallow (5th level)

Magic Circle (3rd level)

Planar Binding (5th level)

Protection from Evil and Good (1st level)

Of these, only Protection from E+G is going to be a likely issue in tiers 1+2, and it probably won't crop up all that much given its narrow application, concentration requirement and how most of your party are probably still humanoids. Notably most of the spells that affect fey especially are more long term things - forbiddance, hallow, and magic circle aren't 'combat' spells. Dispel Evil and Good (and Banishment, not listed) are potential problems though, since they effectively split the party.

Meanwhile they get immunity to:

Animate Dead (3rd level)

Calm Emotions (2nd level)

Charm Person (1st level)

Create Undead (3rd level)

Crown of Madness (2nd level)

Dominate Person (5th level)

Hold Person (2nd level)

Magic Jar (6th level)

Reincarnate (5th level)

Simulacrum (7th level)


Hold+Charm Person more likely to show up early on, and though I don't think reincarnate immunity is going to be a problem usually it's something to bear in mind. It does mean you can't Wish+Simulacrum yourself, but I consider that a net gain for DM's everywhere.

Edit: Because rabbitfolk get prof bonus to Initiative, they can combine it with Rogue 11's reliable talent


By 11th level, you have refined your chosen skills until they approach perfection. Whenever you make an ability check that lets you add your Proficiency Bonus, you can treat a d20 roll of 9 or lower as a 10.

Meaning you've got a floor of 10+Dexmod+Prof bonus. At 11, that's going to be 19 minimum assuming you kept up with your Dex ASIs.

Might be some interesting synergy with Assassin since they can now guarantee 'rolling' well?

[diplomancer]

Edit: Because rabbitfolk get prof bonus to Initiative, they can combine it with Rogue 11's reliable talent



Meaning you've got a floor of 10+Dexmod+Prof bonus. At 11, that's going to be 19 minimum assuming you kept up with your Dex ASIs.

Might be some interesting synergy with Assassin since they can now guarantee 'rolling' well?

It's clunky; but it's possible that rabbitfolk, when published, may come with some sort of disclaimer "you are not considered proficient in initiative for any interaction with other abilities, like Reliable Talent"; though it might be more elegant, if that's the intent, to have that as "official" Sage Advice, as RAI instead of rules text, as RAW.
I'd probably not apply it to Reliable Talent nor have it stack with Jack-of-All-Trades; it's good enough on its own without being buffed by class feature interactions

[Lord Vukodlak]

Meanwhile they get immunity to:

Animate Dead (3rd level)

Calm Emotions (2nd level)

Charm Person (1st level)

Create Undead (3rd level)

Crown of Madness (2nd level)

Dominate Person (5th level)

Hold Person (2nd level)

Magic Jar (6th level)

Reincarnate (5th level)

Simulacrum (7th level)



Also a vampires charm as it only effects humanoids, and you can’t contract lycanthropy.
There are probably other monsters with abilities that specify humanoid too.

[Sception]

Re ASIs: I didn't hate fixed ASIs, but as much as they could help characterize the kind of roles & classes a race is good at, too often they ran exactly counter to that and worked against the lore. Forest Gnome Druids and Rangers, Shadar-Kai Hexblades and Shadow Sorcerers, Drow Clerics and Wizards, there were just so many examples of races whose lore implied they should be good at particular things but that were completely undercut by their fixed ASIs that I honestly can't help but prefer the post-Tasha paradigm.


As for these races?

Lore/Concept wise, I like them.

The feywild seems like a good setting for various anthropomorphic animal-folk, and owl & rabbits feel like particularly good fits. I'd like to see mouse, dog, & hedgehog folk as well, and would like to see some of the other animal folk like aarakocra and tabaxi re-imagined with more faewild ties similar to the hobgoblins, even if it doesn't come with rules changes. Speaking of...

I like the idea of connecting hobgoblins and goblinoids in general more closely to fey and the feywild. It implies a fairytale storybook tone that is an appropriate fit for goblins, it's closer to their mythological roots, and it gives them a character more distinct from other generic monster people in D&D like kobolds & orcs. I hope they do goblins & bugbears the same way. I also like that they removed the armor proficiency. Racial armor proficiencies have been awkward since day one of 5e - due to the redundancy of equipment proficiencies they make the races with such proficiencies worse choices for exactly the classes they should be most associated with, and the problem gets far more, well, problematic, with post-Tasha's floating ASIs. Revising existing races to remove armor proficiencies should be a priority.

Playable fairy is a concept players want to see, but implementation is always so awkward, and remains awkward here.


getting into implementation...

All of these races feel a bit overtuned, but that's fairly typical of UA content and I expect they'll be toned down in various ways if and when they see print. They're not ~too~ overtuned, though, so hopefully they don't get nerfed into the ground. And yeah, the hobgoblin does too much, the rabbit's not-in-multiples-of-5' bonus movement is obnoxious, and small fairies are awkward in ways that undercut the desired fantasy of playing them (much as medium centaurs and loxodons are from the other direction), though they aren't necessarily any more awkward than previous incarnations of the concept, like late 4e's pixie race.

All in all, a nice starting point, and I'd be happy to play or run games for characters of these races provided they see a bit of refinement and slight tuning down (not heavy nerfs!) in their final print form.

[Amnestic]

It's clunky; but it's possible that rabbitfolk, when published, may come with some sort of disclaimer "you are not considered proficient in initiative for any interaction with other abilities, like Reliable Talent"; though it might be more elegant, if that's the intent, to have that as "official" Sage Advice, as RAI instead of rules text, as RAW.
I'd probably not apply it to Reliable Talent nor have it stack with Jack-of-All-Trades; it's good enough on its own without being buffed by class feature interactions

I dunno, I think even with the pseudo-guaranteed high initiative an assassin rabbitfolk is only going to be "okay" rather than "good".

I don't see the necessity in carving out an exception when there's other class features that give an initiative boost (War Wizard, Chrono-Wizard, Swashbuckler). Yeah, rabbitfolk rogue interactign with reliable talent is unusual, but I can't really see anything breaking from it.

Of course going swashbuckler would give you 10+Dex+Cha+Prof as a minimum (which probably works out to about ~22 at level 11 at a guess?) which is pretty funny, but swashbucklers can't capitalise on super high initiative as well as assassinos can. The only edge case I can see for that really being useful is that you guarantee an action before a Lair Action takes place (since those always occur at Initiative 20).


Also a vampires charm as it only effects humanoids, and you can’t contract lycanthropy.
There are probably other monsters with abilities that specify humanoid too.

Also good points.

[diplomancer]

One general point; I do like these races more than those in the previous UA; they just seem more interesting in general.

But I also think that they are a bit, well, out-of-place; though this might be my inner grognard speaking.

At least now it's possible to have an all-animal party; that might be fun for a shortish campaign.

[Xervous]

One general point; I do like these races more than those in the previous UA; they just seem more interesting in general.

But I also think that they are a bit, well, out-of-place; though this might be my inner grognard speaking.

At least now it's possible to have an all-animal party; that might be fun for a shortish campaign.

Well it is fey after all, tricksy tree buggering boogeymen what steal your firstborn or feast upon your emotions. I’d surely hope that doesn’t feel normal!

[StoneSeraph]

3- not allowing the races in the first place.

I fear number 3 will be the choice for most of those DMs.

Not sure why that's a "fear" - I suspect you're correct. That's how it's going to be for my primary campaign, as well as a few other tables I know of. Plenty of races are already disallowed; at this point WotC is just adding more to the pile.


One general point; I do like these races more than those in the previous UA; they just seem more interesting in general.

But I also think that they are a bit, well, out-of-place; though this might be my inner grognard speaking.

At least now it's possible to have an all-animal party; that might be fun for a shortish campaign.

Agreed. Both this and the last UA make for decent "wacky one-shot" material. I would've used some of this for an Adventures in Wonderland one-shot I ran a few years ago, and the previous UA will likely feature in a Halloween excursion this year. Beyond that, these options don't survive power word no.

[diplomancer]

Not sure why that's a "fear" - I suspect you're correct. That's how it's going to be for my primary campaign, as well as a few other tables I know of. Plenty of races are already disallowed; at this point WotC is just adding more to the pile.

It's a "fear" (not a strong one, mind you, but still) because, though these particular races are already heavily campaign-dependent, some future races might well not be, specially racial choices for the classic settings to come; and if they are all like this, they are under risk of being banned, even when somewhat appropriate, because of the variable ASIs and not because of off-taste fluff for a particular campaign.

And that'd be a shame.

[Sception]

I would have liked to see Dromites here, from the 3.5 expanded psionics handbook. Dromites were cute as heck, & imo would have been a great fit for transplant to the feywild.

[Hael]

This is definitely better than the undead pass. They’re all a bit standard and overturned compared to eg winged Tieflings, but the fixes and tunings necessary seems obvious and within striking distance.

The Fey Hobgoblin is the most problematic bc of the help action, but even that doesn’t seem too bad. One could remove one or two of the other features and it would be roughly acceptable.

[StoneSeraph]

It's a "fear" (not a strong one, mind you, but still) because, though these particular races are already heavily campaign-dependent, some future races might well not be, specially racial choices for the classic settings to come; and if they are all like this, they are under risk of being banned, even when somewhat appropriate, because of the variable ASIs and not because of off-taste fluff for a particular campaign.

And that'd be a shame.

Ah, gotcha. Thank you for the clarification. It's fortunate that the material of the past two UA's (and a sizable chunk of TCE) has been mostly "off-taste fluff" (for my setting, anyway), but if it fits a setting or a one-shot, then I'd at least consider looking at the mechanics to see if it's tuned right before allowing it.

[Willie the Duck]

No Owlfolk, Fairy, and Rabbitfolk as playable races are new to D&D, although Pixies were playable in 4e.

Well.... Not entirely correct. But partly correct.
4E had the Hengeyokai. A rather obscure race, they were half humanoid, half animals. And they could be a huge variety of animals, each with different benefits. Sparrows could fly, some could burrow, etc. They could become full animals, being little bunnies or crows, etc. as well as assume a hybrid form.

Good point, but the Rabbitfolk and Owlfolk don't seem to be Hengeyokai, they appear to be their own races, they aren't shapeshifters that can pass as human. These races seem to fit better in Alice in Wonderland then the Hengeyokai who fit in Japanese mythology/folklore.

Fey-inspired owlfolk in D&D almost undoubtedly are harkening back to Hsiao, a race of sentient owls with divine spellcasting introduced (as monsters) in the Master Set of Frank Mentzer's BECMI edition of basic/classic D&D, and given PC stats in the Creature Crucible supplement PC1:Tall Tales of the Wee Folk. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_Tales_of_the_Wee_Folk) According to Mentzer, the name came from Xiao (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xiao_%28mythology%29) from Chinese mythology (presumably more the 'a four-winged bird' part than the 'a long-armed ape' part or the misconstrued 'a flying monkey,' although the last one would have been fascinating to show up in D&D). Apparently they were supposed to work with druids, and that part stuck (and morphed into a pseduo-celtic vibe when they came out in PC1), while the Chinese influence faded.

[GooeyChewie]

Nothing in this UA really inspires me all that much. I've never been a big fan of playable fairies in D&D. The hobgoblin feel weird in a way I can't quite describe. The Owlfolk aren't bad, but I've already seen Aarakocra played with owl fluff, making them somewhat redundant. The Rabbitfolk I might use at some point to mimic Miyamoto Usagi (Kensei monk, probably), and that's about it. I won't relitigate the separation of ability score increases from race, except to say that I continue to find races less interesting without the fixed ASIs. Granted, I'm not terribly keen on Feywild in the first place, so it's hard to say which factors more into my lack of inspiration with these races. Either way, I'll probably skip getting the Feywild book.

[rlc]

I like that they’re trying new things.
I’m not sure how the best way to tune the hobgoblin is, but I can definitely see them just giving the rabbit folk a +1d4 to initiate, rather than proficiency.
The fairy and owl dude both seem fine.

[verbatim]

It's clunky; but it's possible that rabbitfolk, when published, may come with some sort of disclaimer "you are not considered proficient in initiative for any interaction with other abilities, like Reliable Talent"; though it might be more elegant, if that's the intent, to have that as "official" Sage Advice, as RAI instead of rules text, as RAW.
I'd probably not apply it to Reliable Talent nor have it stack with Jack-of-All-Trades; it's good enough on its own without being buffed by class feature interactions

Jack-of-All-Trades says you can add half your proficiency bonus, rounded down, to any ability check you make that doesn't already include your proficiency bonus. Since you are adding your proficiency bonus to initiative with Hare-Trigger I think RAW Jack-of-All-Trades wouldn't apply.

[Gyor]

Fey-inspired owlfolk in D&D almost undoubtedly are harkening back to Hsiao, a race of sentient owls with divine spellcasting introduced (as monsters) in the Master Set of Frank Mentzer's BECMI edition of basic/classic D&D, and given PC stats in the Creature Crucible supplement PC1:Tall Tales of the Wee Folk. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_Tales_of_the_Wee_Folk) According to Mentzer, the name came from Xiao (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xiao_%28mythology%29) from Chinese mythology (presumably more the 'a four-winged bird' part than the 'a long-armed ape' part or the misconstrued 'a flying monkey,' although the last one would have been fascinating to show up in D&D). Apparently they were supposed to work with druids, and that part stuck (and morphed into a pseduo-celtic vibe when they came out in PC1), while the Chinese influence faded.

Hsiao aren't humaniods, they straight up Owls, no arms and hands.

And Rabbitfolk aren't a Mystara race at all to my knowledge.

[diplomancer]

Jack-of-All-Trades says you can add half your proficiency bonus, rounded down, to any ability check you make that doesn't already include your proficiency bonus.. Since you are adding your proficiency bonus to initiative with Hare-Trigger I think RAW Jack-of-All-Trades wouldn't apply.

It's logically impossible to write an ability that provides a bonus, of any nature, to an ability check, that doesn't stack either with Jack-of-all-Trades or with Reliable Talent.

So maybe they might as well let it stack with Reliable Talent, since it's a higher level ability.

[StoneSeraph]

I also wish that the designers were a little more creative in their races. Mythology, "half" stuff, and anthropomorphic creatures seem to be the bulk of it. Where's the new stuff? Feels almost like lazy homebrew to me at this point. Not to mention a lot of other games do anthropomorphic animals a lot better than D&D, especially nowadays. Just like VGRtR and the horror genre, D&D keeps trotting out overdone niche stuff. I certainly hope if this is for a Feywild setting book a lot more will be included in the way of races and not so kidified. For the second year in a row I see myself playing a lot less 5e. Not a bad thing I suppose.

You say "lazy homebrew", I say "focus-group tested, corporate-approved"; none of the past two UA's come across as "I play D&D on the regular", but instead as "I've heard my friends talk about D&D, and I just got done reading Dracula and Alice's Adventures in Wonderland for a class".

These UA's are like WotC hosting a potluck but only serving a store-bought vegetable tray and a bag of potato chips, expecting everyone else to fill out the table. Sure, it's food, but the host has the resources on hand to really go all-out and chooses instead to bring the most soulless, sanitized, and safe options possible for fear of offending anyone's tastes.

[Willie the Duck]

Hsiao aren't humaniods, they straight up Owls, no arms and hands.
I know. I imagine talking animals is a playability issue that the 5e designers don't want to tackle. Regardless, I think that these owlfolk are allusions to, not direct ports of, Hsiao.


And Rabbitfolk aren't a Mystara race at all to my knowledge.
I didn't mention rabbitfolk.

[Gyor]

The big question for me is, are UA: Subclasses 5 and UA: Feywild Folk intended for the same book?

If so then its either a FR Campaign Setting Book or a VGTM style book although those don't normally contain subclasses, I think the former is more likely.

If they are unrelated, these new races could be in a Feywild adventure book or a Feywild Boxset aimed at casual and young players, like Stranger Things Boxset and Essentials box set.

As for the races, I love all of them.

[Gyor]

I know. I imagine talking animals is a playability issue that the 5e designers don't want to tackle. Regardless, I think that these owlfolk are allusions to, not direct ports of, Hsiao.


I didn't mention rabbitfolk.

True. I assumed your point was that this UA was intended for a Mystara product, I should not have assumed that.

[KorvinStarmast]

We already have Aaracokra and Winged Tiefling for awhile now. Just more options to say no to if they’re not your thing.
We don't need more flying races, to be sure, but since we do have them owl (meh) and Fairy (my only dislike is 'small' for that one) are logical additions.

Fey Origin, IMO, is a huge trap. “Oh I’m not Humanoid, so I can’t be targeted by Hold Person!”

Yeah but you’re susceptible to Turn the Faithless, Protection from Evil and Good, etc. Yep.

None of the new race options are dual type, so I wonder if that means they gave up on that after the Gothic Lineages UA? I hope so.

I’m still not thrilled that WotC is still sticking to the free-floating ASIs as the default from now on, vHuman and Half elf are the precedents from PHB.

Solid "meh" plus not something that will fit easily into most settings. Fey hobbo is the only one I'll allow at my tables, but I think it needs to turn down one notch on the power, I'll add details later.

I know it's appropriate for setting books, but this still gives me the feeling of 'more races, really?' +1.


-Adding prof mod to initiative, really?
Yeah, that's not fair to the whole rest of the other books. Breaking their own framework for ... what reason?

I won't buy any more 5e products that contain incomplete races without fixed ASIs. It's that simple and I'll tell them that in the feedback. I am guessing that you found vHuman and Half Elf tolerable, or is vHuman not an option at your tables?

Flying Giant Octopus might be even more interesting, since (1) it makes you faster, which is normally an issue for giant octopuses, and (2) grapple enemies and then drop them for falling damage + prone. And my saltmarsh players would love to do that. Druid, level 6, Shepherd. :smallbiggrin:

"It wasn't balanced before, so let's unbalance it even more"
Doesn't look like a structurally sound design principle to me. aye, but they can tone it down after UA trial run, eh?

Also a vampires charm as it only effects humanoids, and you can’t contract lycanthropy.
There are probably other monsters with abilities that specify humanoid too. Hmm, breaking from PC are humanoid has a lot of ripple effects. Did the devs really think this through?

Creature types are a tag/keyword; did they search their documents for all instances before doing this? The Gothic UA suggests that the answer is 'probably not'

EDIT:
OK, about Hobgob of Feywild.
It's a bit OP so I suggest that they Lose the Fey Gift. It is written like a class feature. Just lose it, and the race is fine.

Fey Gift. You can use this trait to take the Help action as a bonus action, and you can do so a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus. You regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest. Starting at 3rd level, choose one of the options below each time you take the Help action, whether as a bonus action or an action:

Also. Too Fiddly

I do like that Fortune from Many scales with Proficiency Bonus; it is much nicer than Halfling's luck. That feature alone makes for a decent racial unique feature; may be a bit of power creep, but it's not gross. Fey Gift? Nah, just excise it and this race strikes me as solid. (I'll run it through detect balance later on and see how it scores).

[Luccan]

I do like that Fortune from Many scales with Proficiency Bonus; it is much nicer than Halfling's luck. That feature alone makes for a decent racial unique feature; may be a bit of power creep, but it's not gross. Fey Gift? Nah, just excise it and this race strikes me as solid. (I'll run it through detect balance later on and see how it scores).

Fortune of Many is just the original Hobgoblin feature with a different name and more uses per day. Assuming they boost Saving Face to match, you're choosing between weapons and light armor or Fey Ancestry, which seems more balanced between the two

[Segev]

Oh, come on, they made fairies Small with the ability to squeeze through tiny gaps instead of just making them Tiny? I can sort of get why they're so hesitant to add Large races, but I thought that that was because they WotC was worried that they wouldn't be able to fully participate in more tightly constrained dungeons. Tiny races (that can fly, no less!) shouldn't run into those issues, and they certainly wouldn't break dungeon designs/dungeon flows more than a Small race that can always squeeze through 1 inch wide gaps would. Isn't UA supposed to be taking risks and testing the waters on stuff like Tiny races?

But hey, at least fairies are full Fey like satyrs are (IIRC).Yeah, that's lame. It doesn't make a lot of sense, and is ill-explained as to how exactly it works. Are they shrinking momentarily? Sure, I suppose they could ,but why only when they pass through keyholes?


I don't like the Fey hobs, they definitely seem overtuned and generally better than regular hobgoblins. Also not fond of how it explicitly calls out Bugbears and Goblins also being from the Feywild and then doesn't give us subraces for those either (I assume that will happen if this goes forward, but. Also also, I don't think I like D&D goblins being fey in the first place.

"They're descended from fey," doesn't work very well with existing 5e Hobgoblin lore. This would be better served by being named a different bump-in-the-night-faerie name. Maybe "bogle" or "bogey" or even "boogeyman."

[kore]

Oh man, rabbitfolk can ignore the ****ty jump rules, that's so great!


I don't see this as being the case. It allows one to "hop" for 1d12 feet after walking at least 5 feet. This does not augment any attempt to jump. Presumably one would have to hop then land then jump. Regardless, this is not ignoring jump rules.

Additionally, it's quite clunky itself when dealing with grids. I'd trade the 1d12 for a flat extra 5 feet of movement and the ability to jump my remaining movement after a minimum 5 feet of walking. Shoot, don't even add the extra 5 feet of movement.

[Waterdeep Merch]

Yeah, that's lame. It doesn't make a lot of sense, and is ill-explained as to how exactly it works. Are they shrinking momentarily? Sure, I suppose they could ,but why only when they pass through keyholes?


Even weirder, because it's not explicitly a physical feature as-written, wild shaped fairy druids should still be able to do it. Imagine a tyrannosaurus rex entering through a key hole.

[KorvinStarmast]

I know. I imagine talking animals is a playability issue that the 5e designers don't want to tackle. Given the mess they made of Kenku, I think that's good. :smallyuk:

Even weirder, because it's not explicitly a physical feature as-written, wild shaped fairy druids should still be able to do it. Imagine a tyrannosaurus rex entering through a key hole. Can a druid wild shape into T Rex? No, CR too high. :smallcool: But that is a hilarious visual you just offered. :smallsmile:

[Amnestic]

Even weirder, because it's not explicitly a physical feature as-written, wild shaped fairy druids should still be able to do it. Imagine a tyrannosaurus rex entering through a key hole.

Sounds like something a magical flying fey-creature could do to me yeah.

[GooeyChewie]

Wait, a shape-shifted Fairy retains its ability to fly and squeeze through 1-inch spaces? Suddenly I fear heffalumps and woozles will make their way to D&D tables.

[Waterdeep Merch]

Can a druid wild shape into T Rex? No, CR too high. :smallcool: But that is a hilarious visual you just offered. :smallsmile:

Ah, you're right. But a brontosaurus is eventually possible, and it's even weirder. You could even pull some shenanigans by going under a door, slapping someone with your mighty brontosaurus stomp attack (20 foot range!), then walking back under that same door.

[MaxWilson]

Fey type on fairies is probably a net gain for early levels, not so sure about later tiers.
Taken from this reddit post (https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/5rgw5f/spells_by_affected_creature_types/) they're vulnerable to the following:


Detect Evil and Good (1st level)

Dispel Evil and Good (5th level)

Divine Word (7th level)

Forbiddance (6th level)

Hallow (5th level)

Magic Circle (3rd level)

Planar Binding (5th level)

Protection from Evil and Good (1st level)

Of these, only Protection from E+G is going to be a likely issue in tiers 1+2, and it probably won't crop up all that much given its narrow application, concentration requirement and how most of your party are probably still humanoids. Notably most of the spells that affect fey especially are more long term things - forbiddance, hallow, and magic circle aren't 'combat' spells. Dispel Evil and Good (and Banishment, not listed) are potential problems though, since they effectively split the party.

Meanwhile they get immunity to:

Animate Dead (3rd level)

Calm Emotions (2nd level)

Charm Person (1st level)

Create Undead (3rd level)

Crown of Madness (2nd level)

Dominate Person (5th level)

Hold Person (2nd level)

Magic Jar (6th level)

Reincarnate (5th level)

Simulacrum (7th level)



They're also immune to a ton of humanoid-targeting monster abilities, e.g. Gloomweaver Burden of Time (disadvantage on saving throws to beasts and non-Shadar Kai humanoids within 10'), Ghost Possession, Kalaraq Quori Mind Seed and Possession, Vampire Charm, Soul Momger Weight of Ages (20' speed reduction), etc.

[JoeJ]

Even weirder, because it's not explicitly a physical feature as-written, wild shaped fairy druids should still be able to do it. Imagine a tyrannosaurus rex entering through a key hole.

I would never allow fey PCs because I think fairies should be mysterious, alien, and creepy AF, which you really can't do as a PC race. However, I am now inspired to give this particular ability to bugbears (which are fey creatures in my world).

[MaxWilson]

I know. I imagine talking animals is a playability issue that the 5e designers don't want to tackle.

For those interested in playing animals, Sandy Peterson's Cthulhu Mythos for 5E (" [url=https://www.nobleknight.com/P/2147762758/Sandy-Petersens-Cthulhu-Mythos?CATARGETID=520006920000023272&CADevice=m&gclid=Cj0KCQiAv6yCBhCLARIsABqJTjbuO-fq5TNcp6LXs8Q8AUi05ytDY6ViD6RYVM_48laG0JdSDwfBZpsa Ag3QEALw_wcB) has Dreamlands cats as a playable race, including Earth, Saturn, Jupiter, and Martian varieties. It's pretty well-balanced IMO, not boring and not OP unless the Nine Lives stuff is a really big deal for you (e.g. maybe in solo play).

The conceit is that all cats are sapient when they are asleep (inhabiting the Dreamlands) and can choose retain sapience when they return from the Dreamlands to the waking world.

[Waterdeep Merch]

I would never allow fey PCs because I think fairies should be mysterious, alien, and creepy AF, which you really can't do as a PC race. However, I am now inspired to give this particular ability to bugbears (which are fey creatures in my world).

I like to have my players build their characters alongside each other and me so that I can properly coordinate the world with who they are. Someone playing a fairy from day one is going to be less of a problem than someone suddenly trying to play one later after I've established the lore in-game. Once the expectations are set, I'm loath to rescind them.

I've already let my players know that like all fliers, they'll be allowed or banned on a case by case basis depending on how badly flight screws with the campaign in question. One of them is already asking about the owlfolk. I think these are overtuned overall (except maybe for the rabbitfolk, which seems a bit weak instead), so I'd rather hold out for an official book regardless. I'll probably acquiesce for our long-running West Marches game with the understanding that they're so rare that they're unlikely to ever even see a second owlfolk, ever. I don't want to rebuild the world suddenly based on a player's whim, it's an irritating waste of time. I've had to make this point to the player in question more than once, sadly.

[KorvinStarmast]

You could even pull some shenanigans by going under a door, slapping someone with your mighty brontosaurus stomp attack (20 foot range!), then walking back under that same door. Hilarity Ensues! :smallbiggrin:


For those interested in playing animals, Sandy Peterson's Cthulhu Mythos for 5E (" [url=https://www.nobleknight.com/P/2147762758/Sandy-Petersens-Cthulhu-Mythos?CATARGETID=520006920000023272&CADevice=m&gclid=Cj0KCQiAv6yCBhCLARIsABqJTjbuO-fq5TNcp6LXs8Q8AUi05ytDY6ViD6RYVM_48laG0JdSDwfBZpsa Ag3QEALw_wcB) has Dreamlands cats as a playable race, A few months back I read a ton of Lovecraft and he has a few stories with those sapient cats/dream stuff. (Man, talk about turgid prose ...)

[Evaar]

Just not very inspiring.

I love Fey stuff. Half-animal races aren't what I think of, especially since we already have Shifters, Tabaxi, Aarakocra, Kenku, and more options for people who want to explores those fantasies. Hobgoblins come close, but I never thought of D&D goblins as Fey. And it's mostly just... hobgoblins as we have them, with one change.

I would've hoped for more varied options actually considering some of the Fey lore in D&D and in the world. Stuff like what Changeling: The Lost did -- https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Seeming_(CTL)

Quicklings? Darklings? Boggarts? Redcaps? What kinds of fey are in the Gloaming Court? The Summer Court? Where are the knights of the Prince of Fools? Does being a seelie Fey make you physically different from an unseelie? These are just things from the Monster Manual and the Archfey Warlock patron, I'm not even proposing new lore.

Fairy is a gimme. The rest should go back to the drawing board, imo. This just seems uninspired and, frankly, if not lazy then timid. If they don't have any great ideas, get Keith Baker on the phone for a few minutes and then start over.

And I don't even mind the floating ASIs. I want a story. This is supposed to be about the Fey, story personified.

[Joe the Rat]

Personally I preferred the dual typing, though it more often than not created more issues for the player (Vulnerable to Hold Person AND Magic Circle; Healing magics NOT working because undead / constructs are specified as an exclusion).

Fairy isn't just the Wee Folk - they've got a whole gamut. If they'd specified Pixie or Sprite, I'd be more fussed about the larger options, but here you have 'generic fey, which are pretty damn unique as per the nature of a fantastical being of the feywild." I'd personally like to see subtypes, possibly even just dividing between Small (flies) and Medium (..something else. I'd do Fey Step, but they've spammed that pretty hard with the Elves and Eladrin).

Squeezing through a one inch gap: Is beyond the standard tiny fey, so I'm not buying the idea that they are eating their cake by making Fairies small with a squeeze rule (and ignoring the Medium fairies altogether). This is a unique, more magical ability.
How do they do it? They Pixielate

I'm not digging the Hobgoblin-as-fey-race. You'd be better off introducing it as a subtype. Hobgoblin: Legionborn and Hobgoblin: Feyblood. I like the idea of Hospitality, but that's a weird race to pin it on. A decent theming for Saving Face and help actions, but it's too isolated without the broader Rules of Hospitality for all fey.

I am indifferent to the beastials, save that the rabbit will be messy on a grid (unless you make a table: 1-2 = no bonus, 3-7 = 1 square, 8-12 = 2 square)



On the Attribute bonuses: Making them freefloating as default, and changing all pre-existing cases to "Typical attribute bonus" should be fine. The entire spiel of the Tasha model is that PCs are unusual. It shouldn't be an issue to establish a "usual" to vary from.

[micahaphone]

I don't see this as being the case. It allows one to "hop" for 1d12 feet after walking at least 5 feet. This does not augment any attempt to jump. Presumably one would have to hop then land then jump. Regardless, this is not ignoring jump rules.

Additionally, it's quite clunky itself when dealing with grids. I'd trade the 1d12 for a flat extra 5 feet of movement and the ability to jump my remaining movement after a minimum 5 feet of walking. Shoot, don't even add the extra 5 feet of movement.

Kore you are completely correct however I am just happy to see an exception to the terrible RAW about running out of remaining movement while mid air

---
And I'm not sure that floating ASIs make the game more difficult for new players, the default char gen process already has players assigning rolled or standard array scores to where it's good for the class they play, and the class descriptions suggest where to put your highest 2 or 3 scores.

[Segev]

I would never allow fey PCs because I think fairies should be mysterious, alien, and creepy AF, which you really can't do as a PC race.

You might like the Raksha/Fair Folk from Exalted, then.

Even PCable ones can be made pretty spooky/creepy if the player wants to play them that way.

[Evaar]

These UA's are like WotC hosting a potluck but only serving a store-bought vegetable tray and a bag of potato chips, expecting everyone else to fill out the table.

This bit specifically sums up how I feel about these options - without getting into speculation as to why they ended up like this.

It raises the question - if this is all they're going to offer, why don't I just make the options myself and save the money on the book?

[KorvinStarmast]

Fortune of Many is just the original Hobgoblin feature with a different name and more uses per day. Assuming they boost Saving Face to match, you're choosing between weapons and light armor or Fey Ancestry, which seems more balanced between the two Armor and weapons proficiency come with classes, there is little need to append them to races although I understand why that has been done. I'd be happy to see that also dispensed with, particularly armor.

Assuming they boost Saving Face to match, I'd rather that they did not, and I just saw another suggestion up there for "boogey man" or "bogey" ... might not be a bad idea to adjust the race name along those lines to prevent confusion about hobgoblins. Heck, call them boggles - wait, there's a monster with that name already, right? (Volo's).

OK, here is my suggestion: Fobgoblins! :smallbiggrin:
(With the obvious proficiency in thieves tools, eh?)key fob ...

Or Faebgoblins?
Faeglins?

[diplomancer]

Kore you are completely correct however I am just happy to see an exception to the terrible RAW about running out of remaining movement while mid air

---
And I'm not sure that floating ASIs make the game more difficult for new players, the default char gen process already has players assigning rolled or standard array scores to where it's good for the class they play, and the class descriptions suggest where to put your highest 2 or 3 scores.

Fixed ASIs help new players by limiting options.

[micahaphone]

Fixed ASIs help new players by limiting options.

Is that a good thing though? I feel like new players are the most likely to choose a less optimal race/class bonus. Like following the phb, a newbie might see dragonborn and think they're incredibly cool, then think that ranger is cool. Should a DM step in and say "don't do that, it's a sub optimal combination"? I don't want to quash a new player's ideas but I also don't want them to feel like they're lagging behind the rest of the party later in the campaign.

5E doesn't really have trap options, but this is probably the closest thing to it.

[Luccan]

I'd rather that they did not


Why? It's literally the same feature with a different name. They just need to give Saving Face an equal number of uses per day and it will be completely identical mechanically.

[jas61292]

Is that a good thing though? I feel like new players are the most likely to choose a less optimal race/class bonus. Like following the phb, a newbie might see dragonborn and think they're incredibly cool, then think that ranger is cool. Should a DM step in and say "don't do that, it's a sub optimal combination"? I don't want to quash a new player's ideas but I also don't want them to feel like they're lagging behind the rest of the party later in the campaign.

5E doesn't really have trap options, but this is probably the closest thing to it.

Really, this is just a different mindset. Some people see that situation and want to step in because a Dragonborn Ranger is not a "optimal" choice. They will be worse at hitting things in combat, and casting their spells, as well as worse at Stealth and Perception, which are two important things that Rangers are particularly suited for.

Other people see that situation and think it is great that someone is choosing without caring about the optimal choice. They might even think its cool that someone might see the Dragonborn's Charisma bonus and decide to have their ranger be good at Persuasion or Intimidation, rather than simply picking Stealth and Perception like every other ranger they have ever played with.

I don't think either way is wrong. But when you have a new player, if floating ASIs is the only option, there is a good chance that instead of thinking "oh, this race I like gets a Charisma bonus? That's cool. How can I use this?," they would instead think "oh, I get to pick? I don't know what I should pick. Hey, what is the most powerful choice?." Its not that they are intentionally choosing not to do Charisma because it is not the most optimal. It is that they have no reason to suspect that they are subverting norms for the sake of power.

Seeing what a race is "supposed" to be like can lead to inspiration on how to play them, even if you do use floating ASIs and want to subvert those expectations.

[micahaphone]

Really, this is just a different mindset. Some people see that situation and want to step in because a Dragonborn Ranger is not a "optimal" choice. They will be worse at hitting things in combat, and casting their spells, as well as worse at Stealth and Perception, which are two important things that Rangers are particularly suited for.

Other people see that situation and think it is great that someone is choosing without caring about the optimal choice. They might even think its cool that someone might see the Dragonborn's Charisma bonus and decide to have their ranger be good at Persuasion or Intimidation, rather than simply picking Stealth and Perception like every other ranger they have ever played with.

I don't think either way is wrong. But when you have a new player, if floating ASIs is the only option, there is a good chance that instead of thinking "oh, this race I like gets a Charisma bonus? That's cool. How can I use this?," they would instead think "oh, I get to pick? I don't know what I should pick. Hey, what is the most powerful choice?." Its not that they are intentionally choosing not to do Charisma because it is not the most optimal. It is that they have no reason to suspect that they are subverting norms for the sake of power.

Seeing what a race is "supposed" to be like can lead to inspiration on how to play them, even if you do use floating ASIs and want to subvert those expectations.



This is very true, I would just be concerned if one player is on the subvert / nonstandard mindset but others are on a more typical build. The ranger with extra strength and charisma might not get to make use of those nonstandard points if their party mates play as a barbarian and a warlock. It's not fun being the second best at everything.

[JoeJ]

This is very true, I would just be concerned if one player is on the subvert / nonstandard mindset but others are on a more typical build. The ranger with extra strength and charisma might not get to make use of those nonstandard points if their party mates play as a barbarian and a warlock. It's not fun being the second best at everything.

Which is one of the reasons I never allow players to bring characters that they've already made to the game. Creating characters together is a major part of Session 0.

[diplomancer]

Is that a good thing though? I feel like new players are the most likely to choose a less optimal race/class bonus. Like following the phb, a newbie might see dragonborn and think they're incredibly cool, then think that ranger is cool. Should a DM step in and say "don't do that, it's a sub optimal combination"? I don't want to quash a new player's ideas but I also don't want them to feel like they're lagging behind the rest of the party later in the campaign.

5E doesn't really have trap options, but this is probably the closest thing to it.

I think it's simple enough, even for newbies, to check the Racial ASIs and the Quick Build guidelines to choose races that work well with the class they want to play. If necessary, all is needed is for more experienced players to give this very piece of advice.

How I'd help a newbie build a minimally effective character, before:
Step 1: read the short class description given at the beginning of the Class chapter of the PHB, and ask "which one of those would you like to play"?
Step 2: Read the quick build section, and make a note of the suggested order of ability scores
Step 3: choose a race, with those ability scores in mind.

No need to read up on dozens of races.

[x3n0n]

Seeing what a race is "supposed" to be like can lead to inspiration on how to play them, even if you do use floating ASIs and want to subvert those expectations.

Just here to agree. I wish that anything that is intended as a real "race" would come with defined recommended/default ASIs, and then the table can decide whether they can be overridden.
(I'd generally prefer to play with the floating ASIs most of the time, but there's real information to be gained by having the defaults documented.)

[micahaphone]

I think it's simple enough, even for newbies, to check the Racial ASIs and the Quick Build guidelines to choose races that work well with the class they want to play. If necessary, all is needed is for more experienced players to give this very piece of advice.

How I'd help a newbie build a minimally effective character, before:
Step 1: read the short class description given at the beginning of the Class chapter of the PHB, and ask "which one of those would you like to play"?
Step 2: Read the quick build section, and make a note of the suggested order of ability scores
Step 3: choose a race, with those ability scores in mind.

No need to read up on dozens of races.

I wish the PHB followed your steps rather than "race then class". Class certainly matters a lot more than race

[Damon_Tor]

Fey type
Did they give up on the dual typing? Good.


Skill proficiency
But I thought those were cultural? Shouldn't we figure out which real-ethnicity Owlmen are supposed to represent so we know what ethnic group WotC believes are inherently sneaky?

[diplomancer]

I wish the PHB followed your steps rather than "race then class". Class certainly matters a lot more than race

Yeah, Race then Class has a "chronological" sense, but is really weird to the way the game works; and then they break the chronological sense by putting background after class...

[Zevox]

Neat. I'm certainly more likely to play these races than the ones from the last UA, personally, though I do have my quibbles.

The Fairy I kind of struggle to wrap my head around it being small instead of tiny. When I think of fairies/pixies/etc, the mental image is always a lot smaller than even a Halfling. I just can't picture one of them that size and have it feel right.

Hobgoblins I also just can't picture as fey-related, even though I know that mythologically that's where the name at least originally comes from. Too much association between goblinoids and Tolkien-style Orcs in my mind, I'm afraid. That one's admittedly all just on me, though.

Owlfolk I strangely mostly find myself wishing they were described as having wings attached to their arms rather than sprouting from their back. Feels more appropriate to me for some reason.

Rabbitfolk I'm pretty fine with, aside from that "roll a d12, jump that many feet" thing being awkward. Mechanically they seem like they may be a touch powerful with free proficiency in both initiative and perception, but hey, two of these races get a free flying speed, so pretty much everything here is on the powerful side in one way or another, and nothing strikes me as game-breaking.

[rlc]

I think it's simple enough, even for newbies, to check the Racial ASIs and the Quick Build guidelines to choose races that work well with the class they want to play. If necessary, all is needed is for more experienced players to give this very piece of advice.

How I'd help a newbie build a minimally effective character, before:
Step 1: read the short class description given at the beginning of the Class chapter of the PHB, and ask "which one of those would you like to play"?
Step 2: Read the quick build section, and make a note of the suggested order of ability scores
Step 3: choose a race, with those ability scores in mind.

No need to read up on dozens of races.

It’s easy to do, but some players don’t do it. I knew a guy who made a paladin with a higher wisdom than charisma and said that he made his character with zero guidance, when all he had to do was look at a guide or just ask for help.

[Luccan]

I get that the rabbitfolk hop is weird for grids, but a DM can potentially rule on that. It would be nice if it fit the grid system more naturally, but whatever. What I don't understand is why they don't have an ability that augments their actual jumps. You can barely get over a flat 10 Str jump if you're lucky and the only other advantage is that you only have to move 5 feet to do it. When is this ability ever going to come up outside combat? That's gonna be my main feedback other than my gripes with the Hobgoblin, the rabbitfolk is geared way too much towards combat and doesn't come across as very rabbit-like outside of that.

[rlc]

I wouldn’t be surprised if rabbitfolk actually end up getting the standing leap ability that some monsters get (and a smaller bonus to initiative)

[Tanarii]

I am guessing that you found vHuman and Half Elf tolerable, or is vHuman not an option at your tables?
Vuman were not a thing at my tables except in one shots. And I'm not a big fan of the half-elf floating bonuses.

[diplomancer]

It’s easy to do, but some players don’t do it. I knew a guy who made a paladin with a higher wisdom than charisma and said that he made his character with zero guidance, when all he had to do was look at a guide or just ask for help.

I guess he didn't even check the Quick Build section, much less the class abilities. Some players simply don't bother learning how their characters work; not much to do about that, my steps 1-3 are for the newbies who DO bother. Class guides are a good community resource, but they are not necessary to be minimally effective.

Still, I guess it could be worse; he could have only glanced at the Class table and thought the main scores for Paladins are Wisdom and Charisma...

[Ettina]

I am guessing that you found vHuman and Half Elf tolerable, or is vHuman not an option at your tables?

Humans in D&D lore are explicitly supposed to be unusually versatile, and half elves are part human.

I think only unusually versatile races should have floating ASIs by default.

[rlc]

Humans in D&D lore are explicitly supposed to be unusually versatile, and half elves are part human.

I think only unusually versatile races should have floating ASIs by default.

But that goes back to the point that adventurers are special and versatile and blah blah blah

[diplomancer]

But that goes back to the point that adventurers are special and versatile and blah blah blah

Which MIGHT be an argument for allowing ASIs that vary from the norm, but it's not an argument to not HAVE a norm in the first place.

I dislike the rule; but maybe at least the new races could come with some newbie friendly guidance of "this race works better with this sort of classes".

[GooeyChewie]

But that goes back to the point that adventurers are special and versatile and blah blah blah

I always figured the fact that adventurers are special is why adventurers have a 27 point buy instead of a 12 point buy (the number needed to get all your ability scores to 10, before racial ability score increases).

[PhantomSoul]

Which MIGHT be an argument for allowing ASIs that vary from the norm, but it's not an argument to not HAVE a norm in the first place.


Eh, you're still of your starting species, so it's variation added to your racial ASIs that seem more like "oh hey you're ~special~ and were destined to be an adventurer", like GooeyChewie says:


I always figured the fact that adventurers are special is why adventurers have a 27 point buy instead of a 12 point buy (the number needed to get all your ability scores to 10, before racial ability score increases).

[Gyor]

Which MIGHT be an argument for allowing ASIs that vary from the norm, but it's not an argument to not HAVE a norm in the first place.

I dislike the rule; but maybe at least the new races could come with some newbie friendly guidance of "this race works better with this sort of classes".

Wouldn't the norm be established by monster and NPC stats, PCs are abnormal after all.

[Tanarii]

Yeah, Race then Class has a "chronological" sense, but is really weird to the way the game works; and then they break the chronological sense by putting background after class...
It isn't the way most new to the game players think though. They'll almost always put more importance on race over class.

Plus there's a traditional order to the PHB for D&D since AD&D: Ability scores, Race, Class, Equipment, Spells. And later combat added in there somewhere. IiRC the DMG also follows a traditional order of sorts.

[Darthnazrael]

Now I kinda wanna team up with someone to play a pair of Feyhob Mastermind Rogues that just Help each other.

[diplomancer]

It isn't the way most new to the game players think though. They'll almost always put more importance on race over class.

Plus there's a traditional order to the PHB for D&D since AD&D: Ability scores, Race, Class, Equipment, Spells. And later combat added in there somewhere. IiRC the DMG also follows a traditional order of sorts.

I'm not so sure on what you've said about new players, and suppose that it depends a lot on how the game is described to the new player, is it "you can be an elf, or a dwarf, or a gnome, etc." or "you can be a warrior, or a wizard, or a rogue, etc."?

For my personal experience, when I started playing (BECMI) there were no races, only classes, even if some classes were races, so for me it's always been natural to think of class first. And when I started playing 2nd edition, with all the racial/class restrictions, my choice of race was always constrained by which class (or, more often, multi-class) I wanted to play.

In my most recent campaign, there's only one new player, and his character just died today, horribly mangled by Guard Drakes; both a sad moment and a rite of passage. He's now mulling over what his new character will be, and I know for a fact that he's more concerned about what class will best fit the party than what race he will be.

[Darthnazrael]

I'm not so sure on what you've said about new players, and suppose that it depends a lot on how the game is described to the new player, is it "you can be an elf, or a dwarf, or a gnome, etc." or "you can be a warrior, or a wizard, or a rogue, etc."?

For my personal experience, when I started playing (BECMI) there were no races, only classes, even if some classes were races, so for me it's always been natural to think of class first. And when I started playing 2nd edition, with all the racial/class restrictions, my choice of race was always constrained by which class (or, more often, multi-class) I wanted to play.

In my most recent campaign, there's only one new player, and his character just died today, horribly mangled by Guard Drakes; both a sad moment and a rite of passage. He's now mulling over what his new character will be, and I know for a fact that he's more concerned about what class will best fit the party than what race he will be.

Yeah, I started in 3.5, but since Classes are what you do, I've almost always looked at that first.

[Gyor]

Alot of folks think the Feywild Hobgoblin is a stand in for Boggart, but in D&D Boggarts fly, Fey Hobgoblins doesn't.

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Nachtur

If they rename the Feywild Hobgoblin, they will likely call it a Nachtur, after the Gobliniod Feywild Kingdom in the Forgotten Realms.

[Elves]

Free-floating ASIs are redundant. If you don't want races to get specific ASIs, get rid of them wholesale. No point even moving them to class.

[Luccan]

Free-floating ASIs are redundant. If you don't want races to get specific ASIs, get rid of them wholesale. No point even moving them to class.

That actually would require more effort than just saying "don't use racial ASIs anymore in 5e". I wouldn't be surprised if they're gone next edition, but the math in 5e expects some boosts to your beginning stats. Removing them entirely right now when it can be patched over with floating ASIs until next edition probably doesn't seem worth it.

[Lord Raziere]

That actually would require more effort than just saying "don't use racial ASIs anymore in 5e". I wouldn't be surprised if they're gone next edition, but the math in 5e expects some boosts to your beginning stats. Removing them entirely right now when it can be patched over with floating ASIs until next edition probably doesn't seem worth it.

Yeah, next edition if they want to keep the stat boosts around, they'll probably just put something like "add +2/+1 to your character at character creation to any stats you desire" in and not bother putting in separate bonuses for each race. saves text, time and so on.

[MaxWilson]

Yeah, next edition if they want to keep the stat boosts around, they'll probably just put something like "add +2/+1 to your character at character creation to any stats you desire" in and not bother putting in separate bonuses for each race. saves text, time and so on.

Or just skip that step entirely and increase the point buy budget, for those who play with point buy.

[Yakmala]

Rabbitfolk are by far my favorite.

At first, I was thinking Rabbitfolk Swashbuckler, because the goodness is obvious.

But then it hit me... Rabbitfolk Samurai = Usagi Yojimbo. And now I need to make this happen!

[Elves]

Yeah, next edition if they want to keep the stat boosts around, they'll probably just put something like "add +2/+1 to your character at character creation to any stats you desire" in and not bother putting in separate bonuses for each race. saves text, time and so on.

Free choice is completely redundant with "choose the stats you want from point buy/order your rolled stats as you want". Once it's free choice there's no use for it.

What they at one point apparently considered is set class ASIs, to even further safety-proof it for new players. But if their vision for the future is to double down even further on the training wheels, it's lame.

[Gyor]

It occurs to me that the whole Feywild part of the title might actually be a red harring, like the Hellenistic races UA was (the races originally were for Ravnica which outside of Creature types is not a Hellenistic setting at all).

Think about it, only 1 race is actual Fey, the rest fit just as easily in the Prime Material Plane as they do in the Feywild.

Perhaps Goblins and Bugbears weren't in this article because folks are more satisfied with their race features, Hobgoblins had very underwhelming features compared to the other two.

I mean most of the fluff really had nothing to do with the Feywild. The Hobgoblin part gave a rationalization for it being part of the "Feywild" UA, but then talked about Forgotten Realms Prime Material Plane Hobgoblins in connection to the Racial Features.

3 of the 4 races are humaniods. They could have made rabbitfolk and Owlfolk fey just as easily and folks would have had no issue with it, but they didn't.

[Clistenes]

I wonder why they didn't give the Fairy race the option of being Medium too... They are very heterogeneous in appearance, anyways...

[P. G. Macer]

I wonder why they didn't give the Fairy race the option of being Medium too... They are very heterogeneous in appearance, anyways...

I’m pretty sure it’s because the UA fairies are supposed to resemble pixies and/or sprites, which are Tiny, but WotC chickened out of trying to devise mechanics for Tiny PC races, just like they did with Large PC races (See: Centaurs and every race with the Powerful Build trait except orcs). Having a Medium creature be able to squeeze through 1-inch spaces is probably too much even for them, too.

[Clistenes]

Having a Medium creature be able to squeeze through 1-inch spaces is probably too much even for them, too.

About as dumb as having a Small creature able to do so... I mean, I can see a foot-tall pixie squeezing their way through an one inch gap, but not a three feet tall halfling-sized fairy... just how small would their heads have to be...?

They should just have given them a different, more believable trait, like Darkvision...

[BerzerkerUnit]

About as dumb as having a Small creature able to do so... I mean, I can see a foot-tall pixie squeezing their way through an one inch gap, but not a three foot tall halfling-sized fairy... just how small would their heads have to be...?

They should just have given them a different, more believable trait, like Darkvision...

I think the idea is that when you slip through those spaces you're shrinking to the fairy light/tinkerbell size and then expanding back when you have the room.

[Chaosmancer]

You know, I can't wait for 1 or 2 years from now, when a new unearthed arcana is released and I don't need to read through all the moaning and groaning about how Tasha's made everything boring and DnD is terrible now.

It will be because of some new book, but at least it won't be Tasha's anymore.

Meanwhile, these threads do still give me something interesting occassionally. Like:



Edit: Because rabbitfolk get prof bonus to Initiative, they can combine it with Rogue 11's reliable talent



Meaning you've got a floor of 10+Dexmod+Prof bonus. At 11, that's going to be 19 minimum assuming you kept up with your Dex ASIs.

Might be some interesting synergy with Assassin since they can now guarantee 'rolling' well?

And this, this is really cool. I like this.


I also like the idea of Fairie flying Octopus Druid. That was also awesome.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for the rest, a lot of agreement at least. The Rabbitfolk jump is too fiddly, and I want them to have something to increase their jumping. The owls are cool but I'm not sold on a third bird race either. Don't really care about flight, never been a problem.

I don't think the Hobgoblin ability is too powerful, but it is something to dig into. I do love the change the "Save Face" because this is a far better version of that ability, both in mechanics and in lore implementation. I'm stealing that no matter what.


And I'm excited for Fey Wild, but I hope it gives us a lot more on realms and monsters and powerful Archfey, because those are things I really need for my games.

[Gyor]

I wonder why they didn't give the Fairy race the option of being Medium too... They are very heterogeneous in appearance, anyways...

I plan on suggesting they add the choice of size to Fairies too when they do the Survey.

[Gyor]

I’m pretty sure it’s because the UA fairies are supposed to resemble pixies and/or sprites, which are Tiny, but WotC chickened out of trying to devise mechanics for Tiny PC races, just like they did with Large PC races (See: Centaurs and every race with the Powerful Build trait except orcs). Having a Medium creature be able to squeeze through 1-inch spaces is probably too much even for them, too.

The ability only makes sense either way if its magically size shifting, because the ability still works if your enlarged or a Rune Knight.

[Gyor]

I think the idea is that when you slip through those spaces you're shrinking to the fairy light/tinkerbell size and then expanding back when you have the room.

This makes sense to me too.

[Lord Vukodlak]

I plan on suggesting they add the choice of size to Fairies too when they do the Survey.
Tiny has a lot of compilations to add just for a race. Space/Reach is different then for medium or small characters and if small sized characters have limited weapon usage you can only imagine that being magnified for tiny.


The ability only makes sense either way if its magically size shifting, because the ability still works if your enlarged or a Rune Knight.
What if instead of bones you were supported by a series of fluid filled bladders.

This makes sense to me too.
So you know if you hit the little " mark at the bottom of a post you can multi-quote in a single post

[Gyor]

Tiny has a lot of compilations to add just for a race. Space/Reach is different then for medium or small characters and if small sized characters have limited weapon usage you can only imagine that being magnified for tiny.


What if instead of bones you were supported by a series of fluid filled bladders.

So you know if you hit the little " mark at the bottom of a post you can multi-quote in a single post

I don't like using multiqoutes, I find them chaotic and harder to respond to.

[micahaphone]

Might want to edit your posts into one post afterwards then, because there's enforced forum rules against posting multiple times in a row. They are enforced, trust me!

[Gyor]

Might want to edit your posts into one post afterwards then, because there's enforced forum rules against posting multiple times in a row. They are enforced, trust me!

Thanks, I didn't realize, I will compile in the future.

[rlc]

Tiny has a lot of compilations to add just for a race. Space/Reach is different then for medium or small characters and if small sized characters have limited weapon usage you can only imagine that being magnified for tiny.



There are, of course, several different variations of home brew rules floating around on the internet, but I don’t think it’s really worth it to go through all of that trouble.

[Gyor]

Faerie=Feywild and Faerun is named after Faerie.

[Clistenes]

I think something like Tasha's custom built characters would work well for Fey... You could create a small flying character with Nimble and a bonus cantrip or a Satyr-like character with a a strength bonus, Darkvision and 35 ft movement...

[P. G. Macer]

The survey for the UA is now up: https://survey.alchemer.com/s3/6235890/D-D-UA-Survey-55-Folk-of-the-Feywild

(This thread’s most recent post is less than 45 days old, so I’m pretty sure posting here doesn’t run afoul of the Forum Rules)

[Segev]

I took the survey. Nutshell is that I recommended they at least give suggested racial stat mods (so people not using Tasha's optional rules aren't compelled to), that they make the fairy actually change size or be tiny rather than weirdly randomly shrink iff they're passing through a keyhole, and that they gear mechanics to be useful on a grid/theater of the mind rather than on a minis table with ruler measurements. At the very least, give a suggested adaptation for handling it on the grid.

Also, animal-people don't say "fey" to me, unless they're more magical shapeshifter-types or otherwise have Inuyasha-style youkai powers. And finally, D&D goblinoids are not fey. Call the "fey hobgoblin" something else and don't make it tied to the hobgoblin as it exists in D&D. The lore just doesn't support it.

[Amnestic]

Filled it in.

Only real complaint was rabbit hop's mechanics

Also asked for fey goblins+bugbears. If we're getting hobs we should complete the goblinoid trio.

[Zevox]

The survey for the UA is now up: https://survey.alchemer.com/s3/6235890/D-D-UA-Survey-55-Folk-of-the-Feywild

(This thread’s most recent post is less than 45 days old, so I’m pretty sure posting here doesn’t run afoul of the Forum Rules)
Filled it - mostly positive, just stressed the weirdness of how they handled the Fairy's size + Fey Passage, and the Rabbitfolk's Hop ability on a grid. Oh, and that the Fey Hobgoblin probably should have a time limit on those temp hp it can pass out.

[Dienekes]

Mostly agreed with Segev. Pointed out that looking at that stateblock I would not have thought that was a hobgoblin, even when I did notice that was Saving Face with a different name.

Really just reading it, it felt more like what would be the case if someone was trying to represent the Gentleman With the Thistledown Hair as a race rather than anything like a hobgoblin. Like I get the desire to make Hobgoblins, the supposedly trained martial race have a reason why they would actually take a martial class. But this seems to have lost all the flavor of a hobgoblin on the way to doing that. But that is a hard target to get.

The hop thing also got a mention.

I am confused why they clearly are trying to go with the Tasha's character creation method, but keep giving the races skills that are meant to represent a natural part of the race. That doesn't work anymore.

And the Large Fae that can get through tiny cracks, issue. It's weird. You'd think in a supplement where they can create weird races that the GM must opt in to allowing, they'd be willing to try out some more weird things. Like making the race actually Tiny Size, or even actually Large size. They already give flying at level 1 now, and that is far more game disrupting than Large size is.

[Yakmala]

Filled out the survey. My key suggestions and comments were:


Change Fairy name to Feyfolk. The vast majority of people picture faeries and tiny creatures.
Ditch Fey Passage. You increase the size of faeries to small and then let them squeeze through cracks like an ooze? Just replace it with Misty Step or some Misty Step variation like Eladrins have.
The biggest problem with Fey Hobgoblins is how much worse Volo's Hobgoblins fare in comparison.
Fey Hobgoblin is the best thing to ever happen to the Mastermind sub-class. Unless you have a different race in mind for roleplay reasons, you would be nuts to pick anything other than Fey Hobgoblin for a Mastermind.
Owlfolk Magic Sight seems under-powered. Just let them have it at will like the Warlock Invocation.
Loved playtesting Rabbitfolk. I played a Rabbitfolk War Wizard with the Alert feat. At level 5, they had +14 to their initiative!
Rabbit Hop in current form is overly-complex and unreliable. Replace it with either a bonus to movement or a bonus action leap that doesn't provoke AOO.

[Joe the Rat]

Thanks for the notice, P. G..

Mostly echoing the sentiments here. I did make an appeal to at least note what a "typical" member of a species might have in terms of attribute assignments. "Dwarves often have exceptional Constitution" for example. Something I'd wish I'd thought of was to suggest rearranging the statblocks to define the physical features and cultural features. That would let you declare 'natural trait' proficiencies separate from learned proficiencies (Elf Perception vs. Elf Weapons Training, for example). But I am one for splitting hairs.

A funny thing - I don't remember if it was here or on the Foocebake where I'd conflated the Fairy and Owlfolk sizes, but I actually rather liked the result, even with the squeezing. Especially with the squeezing. (Sluagh Sidhe! Sláinte!) But I also suggested revisiting Slim Build for Kobolds from the 3.5 RotD Enhanced - you count as Tiny for squeezing purposes.

[Telwar]

I suggested if they want to have physiological bonuses, instead of representing as skill proficiencies, instead either give them a bonus die or expertise.

I also suggested changing the hobgoblin to "Hobb" or something to avoid confusion.

[Evaar]

I submitted mostly negative feedback. Fey are my favorite, and I felt this really is a missed opportunity.

I commented on the mechanics issues - like are we actually considering balance implications of typing a character as Fey, what happens if a Fairy Ancients Paladin uses the Turn the Faithless ability, what if a Fairy Rune Knight uses Giant's Might and is Enlarged and then tries to fit through a keyhole, how does rabbit jump 12 feet on a grid, etc.

But my main issue is the flavor. Fairy is fine, that's a gimme, you can't not do it.

Hobgoblins have never, as far as I know, been suggested to have any connection to the Fey prior to this. I went looking and couldn't find anything. If they did, why don't they have the Fey Ancestry trait? Elves have it, despite Mordenkainen's specifying that they aren't actually Feywild natives but instead immigrated there as a middle step between Arvandor and the Material Plane. Half-Elves get it, despite being half human. So why wouldn't Hobgoblins and other goblinoids, who apparently actually are native Fey who simply crossed over into the Material Plane? Well because it's a retcon. Does this need to be hobgoblins? Change the name to something else, but keep the focus on "reciprocity" because that's an interesting theme for a Fey.

Owlfolk, as noted, we already have bird people. But my bigger problem here is that it's just an owl person who can cast Detect Magic. It does nothing to explore what an owl represents in the Feywild. Fey are about themes, archetypes, symbology. Owls mean lots of things. Wisdom, death, omens, or even foolishness in some cultures. So those themes should be amplified in the Feywild. If it's just an owl person, you forgot to do Fey. It might as well be another Prime Material race. Give it traits that explore the themes you're choosing.

Similar for Rabbitfolk. First, drop the goofball puns like "Hare Trigger." Racial traits should evoke story; that kind of thing just breaks immersion and encourages either a goofy read of the character or a strictly mechanical read. Second, what do Rabbitfolk represent in the Feywild? Are they prey? Are they lucky? Are they tricksters? Are they hard workers? Are they hedonists? What fabled archetype do they represent, and how do their traits illustrate that? What we have here is just a small collection of puns and mechanics without flavor beyond "what if rabbit, but person."

I told them to go look at Changeling: The Lost or read anything Keith Baker has written about Thelanis, then consider what it is we're trying to accomplish with this set of options. What makes the Feywild different from anything else, and how do we express that in flavor and mechanics? If they can't come up with a good answer to that, maybe it's not a project they should do.

[Amnestic]

what happens if a Fairy Ancients Paladin uses the Turn the Faithless ability,

They Turn themself, same as Satyr Ancients Paladins do. If you use an AoE ability on yourself, you can suffer from it. That's something people would have to take in mind when building the character.


what if a Fairy Rune Knight uses Giant's Might and is Enlarged and then tries to fit through a keyhole,

It uses the squeeze rules:



Squeezing into a Smaller Space
A creature can squeeze through a space that is large enough for a creature one size smaller than it. Thus, a Large creature can squeeze through a passage that's only 5 feet wide. While squeezing through a space, a creature must spend 1 extra foot for every foot it moves there, and it has disadvantage on attack rolls and Dexterity saving throws. Attack rolls against the creature have advantage while it's in the smaller space.

With the added caveat that Fairy's specific ability lets it squeeze through even smaller areas than simple the space for "a creature one size smaller than it." Not sure where the confusion is.

[Evaar]

They Turn themself, same as Satyr Ancients Paladins do. If you use an AoE ability on yourself, you can suffer from it. That's something people would have to take in mind when building the character.

My point is that it's dumb that a Fairy is mechanically disincentivized from playing a subclass that is explicitly referred to as a "Fey Knight" in its flavor text.


Sometimes called fey knights, green knights, or horned knights

They should consider things like that when designing mechanics. Do the mechanics enable story, or run counter to it? This can be resolved with an additional trait like "Rite of Invitation: If you or an ally uses an effect that targets all Fey in an area, the user of that effect may choose to allow you to automatically succeed on your saving throws against that effect."



With the added caveat that Fairy's specific ability lets it squeeze through even smaller areas than simple the space for "a creature one size smaller than it." Not sure where the confusion is.

The confusion is this enables a creature of Huge size to squeeze through a keyhole. If that's intentional, fine, but then provide some flavor to explain what it looks like other than some eldritch flesh horror liquifying and pouring itself through a sealed door. That would be a perfectly fine description for some races, but I don't think it's their intent here.

[Renduaz]

I'm stunned that nobody is talking about how overpowered the Fairy is. I can't imagine WOTC ever bringing it into official play as is.

First of all, the flying is already a massive boost for any race that has it. Posters keep saying 'flying races already exist', actually they only exist with caveats as I suspect the Feywild races would. Aarakocra has a section encouraging DM's to veto it if they want becsuse it can be OP and is presented as an optional inclusion, and Winged Tieflings are likewise Variant races with a caveat for DM permission.

But the real offender is Fey Passage. Do people actually grasp the implications of being able to end your combat turns inside door or floor cracks or objects openings? Or the implications for dungeon delving and infiltration? This is the same ability that A level 14 Aberrant Mind Sorcerer gains with Revelation In Flesh.

Except at level 1. Permamently, for free. Non-magical, can't even be stopped by anti-magic. If it makes it as an official races, it instantly becomes 10x times as broken as Yuan-ti Pureblood.

[Waterdeep Merch]

I'm stunned that nobody is talking about how overpowered the Fairy is. I can't imagine WOTC ever bringing it into official play as is.

First of all, the flying is already a massive boost for any race that has it. Posters keep saying 'flying races already exist', actually they only exist with caveats as I suspect the Feywild races would. Aarakocra has a section encouraging DM's to veto it if they want becsuse it can be OP and is presented as an optional inclusion, and Winged Tieflings are likewise Variant races with a caveat for DM permission.

But the real offender is Fey Passage. Do people actually grasp the implications of being able to end your combat turns inside door or flopr cracks or objects openings. Or the implocations for dungeon delving and infiltration? This is the same ability that A level 14 Aberrant Mind Sorcerer gains with Revelation In Flesh.

Except at level 1. Permamently, for free. Non-magical, can't even be stopped by anti-magic. If it makes it as an official races, it instantly becomes 10x times as broken as Yuan-ti Pureblood.

Oh, my group noticed immediately, and it's a major reason this UA is verboten. We specifically noticed a certain tactic related to those old memes involving Thanos and Ant Man. Get yourself a bottle of air and you can reliably attack an enemy in melee while benefiting from full cover.

Make sure you can cast prestidigitation afterwards.

[Man_Over_Game]

Is Hobgoblin 3rd level as silly as it looks?



Even between combats, "you want a hand with that Perception check?"
With your familiar?

(Not to mention the BA Help during combat; there it seems to be working as designed.)
Seems like better than Fiendish Vigor starting at 3rd level.

Probably just missed. I'd personally just change it to having them last until the start of your next turn.


Also, these are all basically the same with some minor changes. "Here's some random Mobility/Skill/Support features that work well on a Rogue". Like, all of these are amazing on Rogues.

[Amnestic]

Do people actually grasp the implications of being able to end your combat turns inside door or floor cracks or objects openings?

...that you have disadvantage on attack rolls/dex saves while squeezing and enemies have advantage on attack rolls against you? Because that's what the rules are for it.

[Valmark]

I'm stunned that nobody is talking about how overpowered the Fairy is. I can't imagine WOTC ever bringing it into official play as is.

First of all, the flying is already a massive boost for any race that has it. Posters keep saying 'flying races already exist', actually they only exist with caveats as I suspect the Feywild races would. Aarakocra has a section encouraging DM's to veto it if they want becsuse it can be OP and is presented as an optional inclusion, and Winged Tieflings are likewise Variant races with a caveat for DM permission.

But the real offender is Fey Passage. Do people actually grasp the implications of being able to end your combat turns inside door or floor cracks or objects openings? Or the implications for dungeon delving and infiltration? This is the same ability that A level 14 Aberrant Mind Sorcerer gains with Revelation In Flesh.

Except at level 1. Permamently, for free. Non-magical, can't even be stopped by anti-magic. If it makes it as an official races, it instantly becomes 10x times as broken as Yuan-ti Pureblood.
It's one third of one of the benefits Revelation In Flesh gives- while good you're overestimating Fey Passage a bit.

True on the fly speed, although I've never felt like it was much of an issue- it's not hard for a DM to devise encounters with ranged/flying/terrain threats.

Oh, my group noticed immediately, and it's a major reason this UA is verboten. We specifically noticed a certain tactic related to those old memes involving Thanos and Ant Man. Get yourself a bottle of air and you can reliably attack an enemy in melee while benefiting from full cover.

Make sure you can cast prestidigitation afterwards.

I don't think that'd work assuming it's what I'm thinking- Fey Passage doesn't work between creatures. nevermind, double checked the wording. Now I'm wondering if it'd be an acrobatics check.

Though I think it'd be narrower then 1 inch.

[Waterdeep Merch]

I don't think that'd work assuming it's what I'm thinking- Fey Passage doesn't work between creatures. nevermind, double checked the wording. Now I'm wondering if it'd be an acrobatics check.

Though I think it'd be narrower then 1 inch.

2.5 inch diameter on the average human. You could assume larger creatures like ogres or dragons would be quite roomy.

There's also a horrible surprise attack in here, requiring one medium-sized player and the rest all fairies. The bad guys will never know what hit them.

No, really, they're not going to guess that's why you're walking funny.

[Amnestic]

Can't willingly end your turn in another creature's space (in both senses of the word, I think), for better or worse...

[Valmark]

Can't willingly end your turn in another creature's space (in both senses of the word, I think), for better or worse...

Right, there was that.

But what if a PC sits on the other before getting dressed?

(I'm joking but one of my groups is crazy enough that this would come up)

[Renduaz]

...that you have disadvantage on attack rolls/dex saves while squeezing and enemies have advantage on attack rolls against you? Because that's what the rules are for it.

What attack rolls? What dex saves? If you can get inside 1 inch spaces, you can easily find total cover and be untargetable in most situations, and emerge only on your own turns. Also, you never address how much crazy utility it has outside of combat.



It's one third of one of the benefits Revelation In Flesh gives- while good you're overestimating Fey Passage a bit.

True on the fly speed, although I've never felt like it was much of an issue- it's not hard for a DM to devise encounters with ranged/flying/terrain threats.


I don't think that'd work assuming it's what I'm thinking- Fey Passage doesn't work between creatures. nevermind, double checked the wording. Now I'm wondering if it'd be an acrobatics check.

Though I think it'd be narrower then 1 inch.

Its one-third and its a damn good one which is worthy of a level 14 magical ability lasting 10 minutes. One of those thirds is also a plain flying speed, which you get natively as a fairy, so that's already two-thirds.

[Waterdeep Merch]

Can't willingly end your turn in another creature's space (in both senses of the word, I think), for better or worse...

This would solve it, but I know exactly what kind of blowback I'd get for trying to enforce this rule versus just banning the UA. Or telling them upfront not to do those specific things. Players don't like purely gamist reasons for being disallowed from doing something that should theoretically be possible, after all. Even if it was a gamist thing that gave them that possibility in the first place (I never claimed it was fair blowback).

[Valmark]

Its one-third and its a damn good one which is wortht of a level 14 magical ability lasting 10 minutes. One of those thirds is also a plain flying speed, which you get natively as a fairy, so that's already two-thirds.

Sorry, you misunderstood me. I meant that Fey Passage is weaker then the equivalent part of RIP- Fey Passage leaves you Squeezing (RIP doesn't) and also doesn't allow you to escape grapples and nonmagical restraints (RIP does).

If you want to compare the fairy's flying speed to RIP then the latter also gives you the ability to hover so the fairy's flying is weaker there (and should since it's a racial feature compared to a T3 class).

The 'one third' was referred to comparing Fay Passage to one specific benefit of the four RIP gives you, not comparing Fay Passage+fly speed to all of RIP (In which case it'd be much less then one third).

[Amnestic]

What attack rolls? What dex saves? If you can get inside 1 inch spaces, you can easily find total cover and be untargetable in most situations, and emerge only on your own turns. Also, you never address how much crazy utility it has outside of combat.

It's useful but also very much reliant on the gaps being there in the first place, so yeah, don't really see an issue.

I expect both its combat and out of combat utility will be "cool, but not used as much as expected". It's not like characters couldn't already access being super tiny (Druid wildshape to Spider or spider familiar, for instance). Fairies can squeeze through the tiny spot without resources, but they're not gonna be as good at going undetected as a druid-spider is so...evens out I guess?

[Renduaz]

Can't willingly end your turn in another creature's space (in both senses of the word, I think), for better or worse...


This would solve it, but I know exactly what kind of blowback I'd get for trying to enforce this rule versus just banning the UA. Or telling them upfront not to do those specific things. Players don't like purely gamist reasons for being disallowed from doing something that should theoretically be possible, after all. Even if it was a gamist thing that gave them that possibility in the first place (I never claimed it was fair blowback).

1. You can't willingly end your move as part of a movement in a creature's space. Big difference than 'turn'.
2. A creature's Space is defined as the space needed by a creature to fight effectively, which is typically the spatial space around the creature in its square. Being inside a creature doesn't hamper that, hence why its possible to be Swallowed by creatures witho7t hindering their effectiveness. You can also climb on top of bigger creatures by grappling.


Sorry, you misunderstood me. I meant that Fey Passage is weaker then the equivalent part of RIP- Fey Passage leaves you Squeezing (RIP doesn't) and also doesn't allow you to escape grapples and nonmagical restraints (RIP does).

If you want to compare the fairy's flying speed to RIP then the latter also gives you the ability to hover so the fairy's flying is weaker there (and should since it's a racial feature compared to a T3 class).

The 'one third' was referred to comparing Fay Passage to one specific benefit of the four RIP gives you, not comparing Fay Passage+fly speed to all of RIP (In which case it'd be much less then one third).

But these are all mostly minor gripes. Why would I care about being squeezed, usually I don't intend to, and wouldn't be able to attack from a twisting floor crack or keyhole or furniture p9ece anyway. My biggest benefit is either hiding there permanently or attaxking from outside, and moving back inside, rinse and repeat. And when it comes to utility, its likewise irrelevant.

Flying versus hover flying is also very situational and mostly cosmetic unless a very specific condition or action is applied, and total cover usually shields us from it anyway.

Fey Passage is completely broken as a level 1 permanent trait.

[Renduaz]

It's useful but also very much reliant on the gaps being there in the first place, so yeah, don't really see an issue.

I expect both its combat and out of combat utility will be "cool, but not used as much as expected". It's not like characters couldn't already access being super tiny (Druid wildshape to Spider or spider familiar, for instance). Fairies can squeeze through the tiny spot without resources, but they're not gonna be as good at going undetected as a druid-spider is so...evens out I guess?

50% or more of module battle maps and dungeons or areas have terrain or clutter with conceivable gaps. Only places like perfectly smooth halls or open ground and the like do not. But I, or the party, could always bring my 'gaps' with me, especially if I'm a Creation Bard or something. An iron or adamantine box, the party's bag, a spare suit of armor, you can hide in anything.

Not used as much as expected out of combat? In what kind of scenario is it *not* useful to move around like a fly? Undetected? Good thing our perma-passage is not a concentration and we can do stuff like cast Invisibility as we please. Also, a Wildshape's Tiny-sized spider can't squeeze through 1 inch by RAW, it has the same size as a Weasel, even if a some species do not. It is more like a Tarantula. though a DM could make a ruling I guess.

More importantly, Wildshape other than being a very limited class specific resource also changes your HP and attributes and prevents you from spellcasting on the spot.I doubt any analogy is going to change the broken status here.

[Amnestic]

Not used as much as expected out of combat? In what kind of scenario is it *not* useful to move around like a fly?

You're not moving around "like a fly" though. You're only able to squeeze through squeezable situations. As soon as you exit that, you're back to Small size. So you can hide under a doorframe, sure, but the second you pop out it's back to normal.

I'm not saying it's bad/useless, I just don't think it's incredibly overpowered/gamebreaking.

[Evaar]

If you want to compare the fairy's flying speed to RIP then the latter also gives you the ability to hover so the fairy's flying is weaker there (and should since it's a racial feature compared to a T3 class).

The fairy can hover, too.

[Renduaz]

You're not moving around "like a fly" though. You're only able to squeeze through squeezable situations. As soon as you exit that, you're back to Small size. So you can hide under a doorframe, sure, but the second you pop out it's back to normal.

I'm not saying it's bad/useless, I just don't think it's incredibly overpowered/gamebreaking.

When I say moving around like a fly, I mean having the accessibility of one. Get through the sewer grate bars at will, squeeze all the way through a hollow tube, move through spaces inside the walls, get past an otherwise impossible ravine or cave passage. Hide inside a drawer or jewelery box as soon as you need to. Hide inside objects carried into a lair, squeeze out of bindings and chains.The possibilities are endless.

Its 'useful' as part of high-level temporary class abilities and spells. It is completely broken as a level 1 permanent trait granted just by race.

[Valmark]

The fairy can hover, too.

Uh, that's true. Probably misremembered- I forgot the part about wings too on a second check.

[Waterdeep Merch]

Seriously, compare the fairy to the aarakocra. The one that is banned from most tables for being overpowered, including AL. Who has flight with much stricter limitations (a lot faster, though), two extra languages, and a natural weapon and that's it.

Only the speed and ability to use heavy weapons without penalty are better than the fairy. A fairy, meanwhile, can stay suspended in the air (for keep-away purposes, often better than being faster), can wear medium and heavy armors and still fly (plate+shield with longsword is a viable and profitable build. Grab Mobile at 4, enjoy unrestricted tanking), is faster on the ground if forced to walk (which is more unlikely thanks to the specific ruling on flight vis a vis usability of wings), can do that insane squeeze thing to get to places few others can, and also gets a free cantrip and first level spell.

Overtuned is an understatement.

[rlc]

Rabbitfolk was my favorite on here, and I said that they should either get the initiative roll proficiency and either standing leap or even that one ability where they can jump three times their speed, or a smaller bonus to initiative if they’re going to keep the other abilities.
Owlfolk, I think should be able to communicate with owls/giant owls, but I guess that’s a language they can choose as part of their background

[Luccan]

Rabbitfolk was my favorite on here, and I said that they should either get the initiative roll proficiency and either standing leap or even that one ability where they can jump three times their speed, or a smaller bonus to initiative if they’re going to keep the other abilities.
Owlfolk, I think should be able to communicate with owls/giant owls, but I guess that’s a language they can choose as part of their background

Giant owls do have their own language, but I don't think you can use it to speak to regular owls.

I made my complaints with the Fey Hobs and Rabbitfolk clear, but I also said the Owlfolk doesn't do enough to make itself substantially different from an owl-themed Aarcokra, unless I really want Detect Magic for some reason. I also said Owl and Rabbit folk don't seem to have a strong place in the world. They're from the Feywild and that's basically it. I know they can't do too much fluff in a UA, but I couldn't even tell why the designers wanted them or thought they should be written up.