Assassination/spellcasting theme build. Help?

[Skygrassface]

I'm thinking of a theme for a character to get in with spells, assassinate his target with more...traditional means, and then getting out with spells.
I'm very open to suggestions

Starting at level 3, Dm is open for suggestion and non-game breaking homebrew.

[LudicSavant]

I'm thinking of a theme for a character to get in with spells, assassinate his target with more...traditional means, and then getting out with spells.
I'm very open to suggestions

Starting at level 3, Dm is open for suggestion and non-game breaking homebrew.

Last build I posted in my build thread (in my sig) fits that description. Uses spells to infiltrate, then stabs things to death before they get a turn. Notably, it also uses magical support to enable everyone else in the party to become a stealthy alpha-striker, too.

[Skygrassface]

Last build I posted in my build thread (in my sig) fits that description. Uses spells to infiltrate, then stabs things to death before they get a turn. Notably, it also uses magical support to enable everyone else in the party to become a stealthy alpha-striker, too.

I'll have to take a look, I'm guessing you mean the "cloudkill" build. Reading it now and it's pretty solid!

[LudicSavant]

I'll have to take a look, I'm guessing you mean the "cloudkill" build. Reading it now and it's pretty solid!

I mean the last one posted by me.

https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24941211&postcount=938

[OrganicEvil]

Ludic's build is good, but it relies on a mix of setting-specific material to work, and it takes a little while to come fully online. Additionally, it doesn't actually provide any sort of visual cover, just a raw Stealth bonus; that works well for ambushes, but can make infiltrating a fortified position much more difficult, since it doesn't matter how well you roll Stealth if you enter line of sight with any guards.

Based on my experience, the build you want is going to have five basic components:


Scouting capability. Almost nothing is more valuable in sneaking in somewhere than knowing the layout ahead of time, or if there are any guards waiting around the corner. Overwhelmingly, your best option here is find familiar. Arcane eye also works, but you get access to it much later and it's less useful for active scouting; it eats your concentration, and you're going to need that for Component #3, so while you can use it to get a layout ahead of time, it's less useful for telling you if there's a guard patrol up ahead as you're actually sneaking in. A spider familiar is nearly as unobtrusive and can be summoned completely silently, without taking your concentration, and can be used to actively scout. Both spells are good to have eventually, however.

A high Stealth roll. Obviously, none of this is going to do much good if you're getting spotted all the time. Pass without trace is obviously great for this, but again, it eats your concentration. Expertise and a high Dexterity will get you close, especially if you have some way of compensating for poor rolls, such as Reliable Talent or the Lucky feat.

A way to provide visual cover, in order to keep that high Stealth from breaking. Invisibility will be your go-to for this. Silent Image can also work to cover a large group if you're an Illusionist, since you don't need to speak to modify it. However, and Illusionist isn't going to meet our fourth criteria, which is...

The ability to fight well nonmagically once you reach your target.

An escape plan. This is where teleportation becomes valuable. Using it to get in can be problematic, as targeting can be difficult unless you've already done a fair amount of recon, and the spells you need don't really start coming online until at least 8th level. You probably don't want to put the main point of your build on hold until then, so you need another way in. As a way out when things go a bit sideways, though, dimension door is great, and teleport is even better.


So, to recap, here's everything we want, and all the ways we can get it:

Find familiar- Be a wizard, eldritch knight, arcane trickster, Chain warlock, or bard (preferably Lore), or take Magic Initiate (Wizard).
(Bonus: Arcane eye- Not essential, but nice to have. Be a wizard, eldritch knight, arcane trickster, Knowledge or Arcana cleric, or an artificer.)
Stealth expertise- Be a rogue or a bard, or take Skill Expert or Prodigy (which also requires human, half-elf, or half-orc).
On-demand non-concentration advantage on Stealth, or other low-roll mitigation- Be a rogue, Armorer artificer, or Diviniation or Chronurgy wizard, or take Lucky. Chain Warlock or another pet class might also work, depending on how permissive your DM is with the Help action.
Visual cover- Be a bard, wizard, eldritch knight, arcane trickster, warlock, sorcerer, artificer, or Grassland druid, or take Shadow Touched for invisibility. Illusionist wizards have additional options.
Fighting ability- We'll say this means either sneak attack, or at least two consistent attacks per round. Be any fighter, barbarian, paladin, monk, ranger, or rogue, or a Swords bard, Valor bard, Blade warlock, Armorer artificer, Battle Smith artificer, or Bladesinger wizard. Alternately, get hand crossbow proficiency from your race and take Crossbow Expert, or get the Two-Weapon fighting style, either through a feat or multiclassing.
Dimension door- Be a bard, sorcerer, warlock, wizard, Trickery cleric, or Vengeance paladin.


Looking at our shopping list of six core features, all but one can potentially be covered by feats. However, optimally we want to need as few of those as possible, in order to keep our abilities high and bring the build online quickly. Based on the one item we can't simply feat out, it seems we want to be a full caster--probably either a bard, wizard, or warlock. That means Lucky will likely have to be one of our feats, unless we go Divination or Chronurgy wizard. Bard makes up the different by obviating the need for Skill Expert, but it also requires us to go without a familiar unless we spend another feat or go Lore, in which case we don't get one until 6th level--and if we go Lore, that just adds another feat (crossbow expert) to the pile. Thus, we can eliminate bard from consideration.

So, at this point, we're looking at a wizard or a warlock. Because we want to take Skill Expert as early as possible, we need to be a Variant Human or use Custom Lineage; in either case, we can't get hand crossbow proficiency without multiclassing, which delays bringing the build online effectively. Meanwhile, dual wielding effectively costs us either two-to-three feats (Fighting Initiate and War Caster, and possibly Dual Wielder) or a multiclass dip. Thus, Bladesinger is our only option for multiple attacks and is thus our optimal choice. For race, Custom Lineage will let us begin with 18 Dexterity by taking Skill Expert as a 1st-level feat.

So, spelling it out:
1st level: Custom Lineage +2 Dex, Skill Expert +1 Dex and Stealth expertise. With point buy, you can start with STR 8/DEX 18/CON 14/INT 14/WIS 10/CHA 10. Take find familiar as a spell. For non-sneaky spells, you'll likely want to focus on utility and buffs for your party, since your save DC will be quite poor.
2nd level: Go Bladesinger.
3rd level: Take invisibility as a spell.
4th level: Take Lucky. You now have an effective +13 to Stealth, factoring in the benefits of a Lucky reroll, and can remain obscured up to an hour. You can use your familiar to scout while invisible. One level after starting the campaign, you're already highly capable at fulfilling the primary objective of your build, almost no waiting required.
5th level: Not much special here, but you do get 3rd level spells. That's always fun.
6th level: You get Extra Attack.
7th level: Take arcane eye and dimension door.
8th level: +2 DEX ASI. Your effective Stealth bonus is now +16 and only gets better from here.

At later levels, you may want to multi into fighter or rogue. The former opens up Crossbow Expert, the latter gives you sneak attack and other goodies. War Caster is potentially useful as a feat, but you don't need it as badly as most Bladesingers, since ideally you steer clear of fair fights. You should probably focus on raising your Int to a more respectable, wizardly level as well. Personally, I would take my remaining levels in rogue, spending my ASIs to boost INT.

I know it's not as flashy as a stunt build, but in my experience, something simple like this tends to be more fun in play, since it gets you to the playstyle you wanted faster. That said, the reason I included all my reasoning here is so that you can take whatever you wanted from it. These are just my observations based on what's worked for me in games before, do with them what you will.

[LudicSavant]

Additionally, it doesn't actually provide any sort of visual cover, just a raw Stealth bonus Huh? :smallconfused: Your examples of visual cover (invisibility and silent image) are both things that the build already has. It has disguise and social related infiltration abilities too.

And it’s both stealthy (Mark of Shadows + proficiency is stealthier than a typical level 1 Rogue), and effective in martial combat from level 1 onwards.

It also gets magical infiltration abilities extra early for a martial. It gets Minor Illusion at 1, Disguise Self and Silent Image at level 2, and Invisibility at level 3.

[OldTrees1]

And it’s both stealthy (Mark of Shadows + proficiency is stealthier than a typical level 1 Rogue), and effective in martial combat from level 1 onwards.

Hmm, makes me wonder about a Mark of Shadows Elf that becomes an Arcane Trickster and picks up the Fey-Touched feat.

Wait, you said

Mark of Shadow adds all of the following to the Paladin spell list, not a single one of which was already there:
1st disguise self, silent image
2nd darkness, pass without trace
3rd clairvoyance, major image
4th greater invisibility, hallucinatory terrain
5th mislead
Where can I find that rule so I can see if it applies to Arcane Trickster?

[LudicSavant]

Where can I find that rule so I can see if it applies to Arcane Trickster?

Eberron page 21.

It works for the Arcane Trickster, but cuts into their limited Spells Known (unlike for a Paladin).

[OldTrees1]

Eberron page 21.

It works better for the Paladin, because they just get the full list automatically, whereas the Arcane Trickster relies on very limited spells known.

Oh, Eberron: Rising From The Last War pg 49 instead of Wayfarer's Guide to Ebberon pg 105

Yeah due to the unique way Eldritch Knights and Arcane Tricksters select their spells, Mark of Shadow does not help them much. Their list already has most of those spells, they are just limited on when they can choose them.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

Your description sounds like an Arcane Trickster to me. It's a solid subclass without any changes, though if your DM is willing to make changes, you could consider if you'd be any further ahead with different schools of magic. Something like Misty Step seems ideal, though changing schools around only means you'd get it at 7th instead of 8th, and the core spells do seem to fit with what you are after.
Get something like poisoner's kit from your background and you are away.

[Naanomi]

Halfling Aberrant Mind sorcerer, you are lost in the crowd; with no components at all and nothing to give you away; the target drops over and dies to psychic damage

Half-Elf (Wood Elf Variant) Warlock/Fighter/Sorcerer/Rogue (Assassin)
Distant Spell/Spell Sniper/Eldritch Spear
Quicken/Action Surge
Hide in a tree 1200' away from target, barrage auto-crit eldritch blasts at the target

[Zaltman]

Infiltration is the key to assassination. Hex blade 3 (chain). Whispers bard X. Mask of many faces + misty visions +mantel of whispers + invisible familiar + psychic blades damage bonus + hex + bard spells

Yes!

[OrganicEvil]

Huh? :smallconfused: Your examples of visual cover (invisibility and silent image) are both things that the build already has. It has disguise and social related infiltration abilities too.

I should clarify. Yes, it gets both, but as I pointed out, silent image is only really effective for infiltration as an illusionist, since you need to be able to move and reshape it silently. You can in theory use Minor Illusion for point-to-point cover, but that still leaves you out in the open as you move from one to the next, and if you enter line-of-sight of an enemy while you're doing that, stealth breaks automatically, so it's not a very good option. Invisibility, meanwhile... You eventually get greater invisibility on your list, but that's a combat spell; it only lasts a minute, so it isn't as useful for infiltration. You do get basic invisibility from the Mark, but you can only cast it once per LR, which means that while you can certainly get in somewhere using magic, you're exposed when you try to leave, not to mention what happens if something forces you to drop concentration early.

You're definitely right that I oversold it (it was quite late my time writing that), but it's also true that for at least one leg on any infiltration, your build has to either dodge guards or rely on somebody else to provide visual cover, and since it can't scout ahead, dodging guards can be much harder. Because of that, like I said, I see it as a fantastic ambush build, but not necessarily a stealth infiltrator (at least, not without backup). I will give you that it has decent social infiltration capabilities, but that's chancier, since it likely requires multiple rolls (whereas a good Stealth can see you all the way to your target, if you're careful), and you don't have the advantages to those rolls you have to Stealth either.

[whateew]

This isn't exactly spell casting, but for get-in-magically-murder-get-out a shadow monk might suit you. They can teleport in areas of darkness and do some minor spell casting. If you really want to focus on the spellishness, take eldritch adept feat to see in the darkness spell.
(Note, RAW monks cannot take eldritch adept, but the shadow monk can cast spells with ki, and a homebrew friendly DM would probably be willing to waive what is ultimately a minor technicality stopping this monk from being a spellcaster, since they do "cast spells."

[LudicSavant]

if you enter line-of-sight of an enemy while you're doing that, stealth breaks automatically

There was a mistake in the early printings of the PHB that contradicted the rest of the stealth rules, saying that you can't hide if someone can see you. This has been corrected both in errata and in sage advice, and accompanied by lengthy dev commentaries about the design of stealth in 5e and how it's supposed to work. You can also look at the rules for stealthy movement while traveling, and the rules for noticing threats, which contradict the (now errataed) mistake.



You're definitely right that I oversold it (it was quite late my time writing that), but it's also true that for at least one leg on any infiltration, your build has to either dodge guards or rely on somebody else to provide visual cover, and since it can't scout ahead, dodging guards can be much harder. Because of that, like I said, I see it as a fantastic ambush build, but not necessarily a stealth infiltrator (at least, not without backup). I will give you that it has decent social infiltration capabilities, but that's chancier, since it likely requires multiple rolls (whereas a good Stealth can see you all the way to your target, if you're careful), and you don't have the advantages to those rolls you have to Stealth either.

What do you mean "since it can't scout ahead"? It absolutely can scout ahead (via a broad variety of means including stealth, illusion, invisibility, disguise, social skills, divination, and even abjuration), and it doesn't need to rely on somebody else to provide visual cover.

Speaking of visual cover, you speak of Invisibility and Silent Image as if you need this thing that almost all Rogues don’t have in order to scout ahead or “be a stealth infiltrator.” Fortunately for Rogues, this is not the case.

Not only that, but IMHO they’re not even among the better tools available to get past guards. For example, Invisibility famously doesn’t actually solve problems like “a closed door watched by halfway competent guards.” There’s even OotS comics about it. Like this one:

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0656.html

Meanwhile, the build I posted has not one but several ways to get past such situations.