How would you best represent the One Power (wheel of time) in 3.5?

[H_H_F_F]

Just an idle thought I had, wondering what a Rand al'Thor build might look like. How would you achieve, with 3.5 material, the closest thing to the one power?

No casting class I can think of feels right. Psionics seems slightly better, but not significantly so. Nothing else seems versatile and powerful enough.

Anyone got any creative ideas?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Honestly, refluffed psionics. Nobody who uses the True Source has to use components of any kind, and armor doesn't affect it; all it takes is concentration and knowing how to weave the strands of energy in the right patterns. Just refluff it, with a few homebrewed powers to represent certain unique effects, such as balefire (although this could be achieved well enough in the short term by manipulating time via one of a few powers to go back in time and kill them there; see The Save Game Trick (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?177889-Brainstorm-for-Psionic-Tricks-Tactics-and-Combos-Handbook) for details).

Of course, some spells need to be used as psionic powers (such as gate) but convert-spell-to-power erudites can get that and pass it on easily enough.

[ViperMagnum357]

WOTC actually licensed a couple of books for 3rd edition in the WOT setting, creatively named 'The Wheel of Time RPG.' That seems like a good place to start, if you can dig up a PDF somewhere.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

WOTC actually licensed a couple of books for 3rd edition in the WOT setting, creatively named 'The Wheel of Time RPG.' That seems like a good place to start, if you can dig up a PDF somewhere.I don't have it and haven't read it, but from everything I've heard, it's got very bad mechanics and shouldn't be used.

[Nousos]

The wotc wheel of time rpg is for sure its own system, but conversion wouldn't be too difficult. Just modify the classes (they all grant def boosts as they level) and some feats have been slightly altered.

The casting in it is pretty neat, if you aren't just trying to build rand specifically as a 3.5 character. Even has all the artifacts and items from the series that use the one power.

Edit- the balance in it is dependant on it only being used with itself

[King of Nowhere]

psionics would seem the closer fit because the limitations of vancian casting do not apply to the wheel of time. having a pool of power points and being able to spend them as you will is more like it. add that you recover some with a short rest, and you are more or less there.

[Kitsuneymg]

The WoT rpg is trash and no one should use it.

People have already said psionics and I agree. If you’re sticking to 3.5 material.

If you want something that will take some work, but it ultimately much better at doing WoT style magic, go check out Spheres of Power. Each group of channelers would have a different tradition. Aes Sedai would have emotional casting, somatic casting (once), rigorous concentration, and perhaps the easy focus boon and be int based, as an example.

[Quertus]

Just an idle thought I had, wondering what a Rand al'Thor build might look like. How would you achieve, with 3.5 material, the closest thing to the one power?

No casting class I can think of feels right. Psionics seems slightly better, but not significantly so. Nothing else seems versatile and powerful enough.

Anyone got any creative ideas?

Just how "versatile and powerful" do you picture WoT to be? I picture it as woefully OneNote and weak compared with 3e TO, personally.


WOTC actually licensed a couple of books for 3rd edition in the WOT setting, creatively named 'The Wheel of Time RPG.' That seems like a good place to start, if you can dig up a PDF somewhere.


I don't have it and haven't read it, but from everything I've heard, it's got very bad mechanics and shouldn't be used.

Define "bad mechanics".

-----

So, what are the *most* iconic things about WoT?

Holding the One Power - could be roughly paralleled with holding psionic focus // I don't remember it, but *probably* existed in WoT d20.

Warders - I know that there's a way in 3.pf, but I'm drawing a blank // definitely exists in WoT d20.

Overchanneling - iirc, there's one really bad psionic ability that doesn't cover this well // definitely exists in WoT d20.

Taint - not a good parallel in 3e (so… run a female) // definitely exists in WoT d20 (so… run a female).

Harden Air - not a good parallel in 3e // definitely exists in WoT d20 (and probably the best ability).

Healing - I'll assume a STP Erudite can manage // definitely exists in WoT d20 (but not very good… was it good in WoT?)

Balefire - epic spell // definitely exists in WoT d20.

Personally, I think that WoT d20 is the way to go.

Failing that, homebrew a STP Erudite style Psion, and homebrew some powers to cover the most iconic abilities.

[Another Handle]

I don't have it and haven't read it, but from everything I've heard, it's got very bad mechanics and shouldn't be used.

Yes, its slop. Channelers are clunky sorcerers that live and die by the feat. And its loaded with feat taxes that do nothing but allow you to buy a feat that does something later. Which makes it the most honest of the d20 games. It was written little past halfway through the series though, so its use as a reference has large limits.

However, it does have a fair amount of information that would make it a useful tool for anyone looking to homebrew their own. Such as by making Channelers clunky psions. Class defense bonus is solid. And any WoT fan would probably appreciate the forward written by Jordan.

TL;DR: If you can find it at a reasonable price, its a useful tool to homebrew up your own.

[Another Handle]

Come to think of it, here are two old netbooks for WoT I managed to find again.
Under the Dragon's Banner (https://wot213.tripod.com/supplement/utdb.pdf)
Age of Illusions (http://scepter.thehumblest.net/AoI/)

[shaikujin]

While it may not be for everyone used to 3.5, there are some nice things I like in the WoT RPG though.

For channeling,
- built in overchannel
- circle magic. Which grants the abiltity to cast a higher level "spell" rather than just increasing CL
- weaves have built in upgrades. Instead of having to learn a lesser version of a spell at lvl, a standard version at another level, and a greater version later, once a weave is learned all versions are learned
- combining the last 2 points means that a channeler in a circle can channel higher level weaves
- healing weaves convert lethal damage to non lethal damage, rather than just healing injuries outright. I this was a very good way to emulate what happens in the novels
- channellers can learn weaves by watching
- ability to persist weaves for days by "tying" them
- the non-prc channeling classes has rules for multiclass where the channeling abilities are combined (in 3.5 terms, this is like taking sorc 3 and wizard 6, and be able to cast 5th level spells)



For items, beyond masterwork items, there's something called masterpiece version.



My gripes about it -
- too many abilities require feats
- too little weaves
- magic items are basically all artifacts from the past with no way to craft them. Not even Perrin can craft them like in the novels.
- madness rules for male channellers are too harsh. If these rules are used, Rand would have gone stark raving mad long ago, or used up all his feats to reduce his madness counter
- there are the channelling classes, and then there are the rest
- all classes gets a base AC increase as they level up, like the 3.5 variant rule for AC. Armor doesn't stack with the AC that characters get, except for 1 standard class and 1 PRC iirc.


I guess there's not enough interest in it for them to print more than the 3 books. (Core rpg, an expansion with is an adventure module, and a web enhancement)

It's a great splat book if your table can play 3.WoT. But as a standalone, too little material.

[King of Nowhere]

- madness rules for male channellers are too harsh. If these rules are used, Rand would have gone stark raving mad long ago, or used up all his feats to reduce his madness counter


well, if rand hadn't been the chosen one, he would have gone stark mad long before.
he still went mad, but it's unclear how much was the taint and how much the pshycological pressure.

rand lasted a couple of years before the taint was cleansed. i don't remember any other male channeler lasting longer. logain lasted a year or two. Taim could get to 6 only because he was a darkfriend. I think androl's father channeled for 3 or 4 years, but he was very stingy with it, that's why he survived longer. The black tower lost some 10% of its members to the taint in a few months.

[Quertus]

- healing weaves convert lethal damage to non lethal damage, rather than just healing injuries outright. I this was a very good way to emulate what happens in the novels

Cool. Glad to hear that the healing is thematic.


- channellers can learn weaves by watching

Also nice… if you ever run into others (my character never did).


- ability to persist weaves for days by "tying" them

I knew my list was missing one of the major iconic features! Good catch. I don't think 3e emulates this well.


- the non-prc channeling classes has rules for multiclass where the channeling abilities are combined (in 3.5 terms, this is like taking sorc 3 and wizard 6, and be able to cast 5th level spells)

A nice feature.


- too many abilities require feats
- too little weaves

While suboptimal, this felt true to the source material to me.

Heck, my channeler even took Dark One's Own Luck. I didn't feel feat starved, just not omni-competent.


- magic items are basically all artifacts from the past with no way to craft them. Not even Perrin can craft them like in the novels.

That can be an issue, although 3e Christmas doesn't make it feel too bad.


- madness rules for male channellers are too harsh. If these rules are used, Rand would have gone stark raving mad long ago, or used up all his feats to reduce his madness counter

Big issue. So… play a female channeler.


It's a great splat book if your table can play 3.WoT. But as a standalone, too little material.

Yeah, I played one in 3.WoT, and it was fine.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

What happens if you're a channeler without a gender? For instance, an awakened construct, a warforged, or an elemental creature? Or hermaphroditic creatures, or otherwise non-binary?

[H_H_F_F]

What happens if you're a channeler without a gender? For instance, an awakened construct, a warforged, or an elemental creature? Or hermaphroditic creatures, or otherwise non-binary?

You'd have to channel either Saidin or Saidar, probably depending on some inner nature.

WoT was written from a very rigid and binary view of gender, it needs some adjustment for non binary people even before considering warforged and the like.

[Fizban]

There is only one class in 3.x that I'm aware of which can essentially cast any spell it has seen: Sha'ir, from Dragon Mag. And it does so in an extremely not-WoT way (your mini-genie familiar disappears for rounds-minutes to bring back a casting of the spell which sticks in your head for an hour).

Otherwise, there's the usual "all narrative spellcasting mechanics should be spell points/psionics/etc," because points let you cast as much as you want until you can't. Of course, trying to do anything like the characters in the books would generally make you run out of points in no time. But as the WoT RPG books itself might remind you, WoT does not have 3.5 enemies. It has bruisers with a handful of HD. Similarly, the 3.x demographics have 99% of the population at 1 HD, so casting a non-stop stream of deadly "fireballs" could be spamming a 1 point Energy Ray over and over.

Edit: as for Rand al'Thor specifically, his build in the WoT book actually cheats by giving him a number of channeling feats and even +2 charisma because ta'veren, while he himself only has like 12 levels of Wilder. But Wilders get access to high level powers even faster than Wizards, and some "high level" weaves can be cast at much lower levels (individual weaves listing what level slots can be used to cast them to what effect), so by getting them as a bonus he can still cast them. So you stat Rand's bogus "I sound like a gestalt character" powers by them not being a valid build, because they're bogus main character powers.

For DnD, well you'd probably want to involve ToB 'cause it's got fancy fighting moves that will generally go much better for the blademastering than the 3.0 Weapon Master reskin. So Rand/the asha'man have a martial/caster PrC.



As for WoT and gender- well MILD SPOILER-
There is that one character that has their soul (does Wot say soul? it would be soul in DnD purposes) put in a different body by the Dark One and whose undetectability by channeling the other half is a semi-major point for multiple books.
Considering male channelers are identified by being channelers that are male, a female body with a saidin-channeling soul would go unnoticed and die to the taint. And male who channeled saidar would still have a 3/4 chance of dying without training they could never get, plus the chance of suicide out of fear of the madness, and if not that they'd still hide themselves and no aes sedai would believe it if they saw it.

The magic system is tied to gender, but the actual underlying mechanic is easily addressed outside of that (you just pick one), and considering the background of the setting I think there's plenty of room to say that it's possible such occurrences simply went unnoticed. If it weren't for the [spoiler], there wouldn't even be any evidence that which power you channel is anything but a basic physiological property of the body you inhabit- and even then it can still be put down to specific circumstances rather than overturning the basic assumption.

[Psyren]

Definitely psionics. Particularly the Overchannel and/or Wild Surge rules. Metaconcert will give you a decent foundation for the saidar linking ability.

I wouldn't bother with the other gender stuff beyond fluff (or at all, really.)

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Has anyone written any crossover stories where a male spellcaster (or in this case, manifester) from a different world gets stuffed into The Wheel of Time world? He wouldn't be using Saidin, so the taint wouldn't affect him.

I know there was an omake for Milo from Harry Potter and the Natural 20, but that's the only one I've ever seen. It'd be kind of interesting, assuming said mage could survive being outed for using magic.

[One Step Two]

Has anyone written any crossover stories where a male spellcaster (or in this case, manifester) from a different world gets stuffed into The Wheel of Time world? He wouldn't be using Saidin, so the taint wouldn't affect him.

I know there was an omake for Milo from Harry Potter and the Natural 20, but that's the only one I've ever seen. It'd be kind of interesting, assuming said mage could survive being outed for using magic.

From memory, WoT has a very tangled multiverse (pun intended) as all worlds and stories in the Wheel and the Weave are interconnected. The Heroes of the Horn have powers that are entirely unlike anything to do with the the One power, but are functionally magic, I think Birgette used her bow to set fire to ships when she was first summoned, for example.

It's a setting where as long as the legend says you can do a thing, you absolutely can. If there's a story about it, it can be true, from strong blood ties to heroes of the past can make you speak in a long-dead language, where a man walks among wolves as friends, or a woman walking in the world of dreams are possible, and they are not of the one power. If there's a story of a boy with a carved wooden wand chanting an unknown language causes fire to appear, then it's entirely possible.

[Ramza00]

Dreamscarred Psionics.

Reflavor the Lasher race as Human and Roper instead of Dwar and Roper to represent how tall Rand Al Thor is.

Take the Overchannel feat chain plus Biokinetic Feedback which allows you to wild surge plus Overchannel at the same time for a higher enervation chance. Likewise Biokinetic Feedback gives you the choice to sacrifice Hitpoints instead of Power Points.

Wild Surge from Wilder, +6
Wild Surge Favored Class Benefit from Lasher, +4
Wild Surge Crystals for another +3
Overchannel +3

Combined with the 2nd level psionic power Shape the Veil I think it’s name is and you can have any two evolution point list ability from the Summoner Eidolon. This lets you get any bonus feat for some pp (most free from wild surge) and 6 seconds of game time. Likewise Psychic Reformation at HD 8 for within a mere 10 minutes you can rebuild your character with no downsides under dreamscarred rules.

Now you have any power you need and a massive manifested level boost compared to similar CR creatures. Your powers known are low but there are ways to work around that.