Tasha's Ranger Alternate Features

[diplomancer]

I both like and dislike what Tasha did to the Rangers; though I believe giving Rangers better class features was a good idea, taking away the old features (specially Favored Foe and Favored Terrain) makes them feel less Rangery.

Specially considering how the old features were almost useless for combat, would it break anything to just add instead the new features that replace them?

[sophontteks]

I both like and dislike what Tasha did to the Rangers; though I believe giving Rangers better class features was a good idea, taking away the old features (specially Favored Foe and Favored Terrain) makes them feel less Rangery.

Specially considering how the old features were almost useless for combat, would it break anything to just add instead the new features that replace them?
Yes. The new features are quite strong. Rangers are very viable now. Effectively doubling their features is a bit bloated.

I think its best to let the old features die. They didn't feel good out of combat either.

Natural explorer didn't make rangers feel rangery. It just handwaved everything about travel. It feels much better to just have expertise in survival and play it out with your amazing survival roles.

Favored enemy can just be put into the characters background. A reasonable DM would give you advantage towards a favored foe for the exact same checks if your background is focused on your constant study and tracking of them.

Really, the same goes for hide in plain sight. If you spend a minute covering yourself in dirt and mud you should get advantage on the check at least. It doesn't warrant being an ability because anyone can choose to spend a minute covering themselves in mud.

[Segev]

I find favored foe to be frustrating. Either Hunter's Mark is supposed to be a class feature irma useful spell. Making a class feature that is weak Hunter's Mark devalues the spell when there are so few slots for knowing them.

It is also very unsatisfying as a "favored" foe. It is just bonus damage against whoever you happen to be fighting. It is not very "ranger" like. No more than it is Barbarian, paladin, or fighter-like.

[Ir0ns0ul]

In my table we mixed up a little bit with the old and infamous Revised Ranger.

- We kept the Favored Enemy version of Revised Ranger adding +2 and later +4 to damage. We also allowed to choose Humanoids as an entire group. Favored Foe sucks.
- We kept Deft Explorer, which is much better both in and out of combat. Expertise in Stealth or Perception.
- We kept Primal Awareness. Which is super Rangery in my opinion.
- We also kept Fleet of Foot from Revised Ranger as well.

The Ranger in our table is one of our alpha strikers and he owns the session whenever exploration is needed. Having fun big time and doesn’t feel lackluster at all.

[sophontteks]

In my table we mixed up a little bit with the old and infamous Revised Ranger.

- We kept the Favored Enemy version of Revised Ranger adding +2 and later +4 to damage. We also allowed to choose Humanoids as an entire group. Favored Foe sucks.
- We kept Deft Explorer, which is much better both in and out of combat. Expertise in Stealth or Perception.
- We kept Primal Awareness. Which is super Rangery in my opinion.
- We also kept Fleet of Foot from Revised Ranger as well.

The Ranger in our table is one of our alpha strikers and he owns the session whenever exploration is needed. Having fun big time and doesn’t feel lackluster at all.
I'm sure he doesn't feel lackluster. This is a good bit overtuned with the additional flat damage on all humanoids.

[diplomancer]

Yes. The new features are quite strong. Rangers are very viable now. Effectively doubling their features is a bit bloated.

I think its best to let the old features die. They didn't feel good out of combat either.

Natural explorer didn't make rangers feel rangery. It just handwaved everything about travel. It feels much better to just have expertise in survival and play it out with your amazing survival roles.

Favored enemy can just be put into the characters background. A reasonable DM would give you advantage towards a favored foe for the exact same checks if your background is focused on your constant study and tracking of them.

Really, the same goes for hide in plain sight. If you spend a minute covering yourself in dirt and mud you should get advantage on the check at least. It doesn't warrant being an ability because anyone can choose to spend a minute covering themselves in mud.

On Natural Explorer; this is a common criticism I've heard; having never seen a Ranger at a table on a long campaign involving exploration, I will take your word for it; still, I feel that the Ranger should have something that makes him feel more of the outdoorsy warrior from level 1, and I don't get that from any of the new features Canny/Roving/Tireless. Perhaps a bit from roving, but that's it. What could it be, do you think?

As to Favoured Enemy, I don't understand your argument very well; you say the Ranger can't keep it, but then say anyone can have it for free as long as they write something about it in their background.

[strangebloke]

favored foe is fine imo. You basically have a 'free' hunter's mark and then a 'boosted' hunter's mark that uses a slot. It reminds me of how monks can use 1 BA attack for free, or 2 BA attack with flurry at the cost of a ki point.

[Kane0]

What I do with my group:

Favored Enemy/Foe becomes Quarry: After you attack an enemy any subsequent attacks against the same enemy until end of next turn deal +1d4 damage. The die size increases at levels 7, 13 and 19.

Natural Explorer is changed to: Gain either a climb or swim speed equal to your move speed plus when you are travelling for an hour or more you can add your Wis bonus to any Str, Dex or Wis ability checks you or allies travelling with you make

Features at level 3, 6, 10, 14 and 18 are replaced with Nature's Boon. Each time you get a boon, pick from the below:
Camouflage: When you take the Hide action you become invisible until you move more than 5 feet during your turn, make an attack or cast a spell. If selected a second time you can remain invisible until you move more than your movement speed instead of more than 5 feet.
Healing Salves: As a part of a long rest, you can prepare a number of healing salves equal to your Wisdom modifier. Each salve restores HP equal to 1d8 + Ranger level and can be applied to a creature using an action. If selected a second time each healing salve applied a creature also provides the benefits of a Lesser Restoration spell or removes one level of exhaustion. Unused salves expire at the end of a long rest.
Honed Senses: You gain darkvision out to a range of 60 feet and can take the Search action as a bonus action. If selected a second time, your Darkvision allows you to see through magical darkness and being unable to see a creature does not impose disadvantage on your attack rolls against it
Land's Stride: Spells and magical effects cannot reduce your movement speed and you can ignore nonmagical difficult terrain. If selected a second time, you gain advantage on saving throws against being being Paralysed, Restrained or Stunned
Traps: As an action you can lay a trap, which occupies a 5 foot radius space within reach. A creature that first moves into this space or starts its turn there must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw against your spell DC or be either Blinded, Deafened, Poisoned or knocked Prone (your choice when you lay the trap) until the start of their next turn. You can have a number of traps active at any given time equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum 1), any additional trap you place renders the oldest existing trap inert. If selected a second time, you can deploy a trap up to 30 feet away from you, and each trap occupies a 10 foot radius area.
Expertise: You're boring, you get expertise in one skill of your choice.

[MoiMagnus]

For those searching to mix and match multiple rangers, there are also the abilities from BG3 (https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Ranger) which are reasonably nice.

[Ir0ns0ul]

I'm sure he doesn't feel lackluster. This is a good bit overtuned with the additional flat damage on all humanoids.

Not that much. Our Wizard has Hold Person, and usually this spell turns our Humanoid encounters really easy. We are not facing Humanoids that much now (Tier 2), but when it happens, it’s a blast.

[TigerT20]

If we're now talking about homebrew rangers, I just use Grod's (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?592343-Grod-s-Revised-Ranger)

Only thing I would ever want to change with it is making Favoured Foe similar to Favoured Terrain, with generic bonuses that are still very flavourful (ie a bonus to Dex or Con saves if you pick dragons)

[Chaosmancer]

I liked the extra spells from Tasha's Primal Awareness, that helps the ranger feel a lot more like a ranger, a half-caster nature warrior. I also took the UA version of Favored Foe, a few free hunter's marks without concentration feels great.

The trickiest part was then taking the options given in Natural explorer (I think that was still the ability) and adding to them. So, tireless and roving also added in abilities from the revised ranger, like advantage on initiative. Giving them enough options so it isn't just a matter of order, but also of what abilities you actually want to have.

I might have overturned in one or two spots, but it has felt a lot more like a ranger since then. Especially roving, that ability to climb really open rangers up into 3-D combat, which feels really good.

[dmhelp]

I think TCE Rangers are great up to level 10 using: Deft Explorerer, Primal Awareness, & Nature's Veil.

My players have preferred to keep Favored Enemy for the extra languages since they use hunter's mark a lot.

I think at 14, 18, & 20 they are underwhelming. It is maybe worth it to go to 17 for swift quiver.

So if you wanted to overtune them you could give:
14 - add Favored Foe (also improves Foe Slayer)
18 - add Natural Explorer x3 & Primeval Awareness

I think that improves them more when they need it and not when they don't.

[Damon_Tor]

My preferred fix for rangers has always been their magic: giving them spells that interact with their class features. For example, an invisibility spell that works better in some way while in your favored terrain. Spells that add extra damage versus your favored enemies. Spells specifically designed to buff your animal companion.

[LumenPlacidum]

I agree with the magic alternative. The biggest problem is that they don't get good unique spells until their highest level (swift quiver!). Some of their spells are good, but it's typically a better idea to have the druid cast them. If they got some really awesome options--like paladins do--at earlier levels, then people might think about being a ranger more.

So, I don't know that they need better features, just some excellent spells! Hunter's Mark is good, but its concentration requirement relegates it to only being relevant at early parts of the game. Also, being level 1 makes it so that other classes can grab it easily without actually taking Ranger! Something like Find Steed/Greater Steed level of cool would do wonders to make a Ranger feel better. Frankly, I don't think it was ever numerically inferior to the other martial characters, but its concept is muddied--especially by overlap with the druid.

[Segev]

My preferred fix for rangers has always been their magic: giving them spells that interact with their class features. For example, an invisibility spell that works better in some way while in your favored terrain. Spells that add extra damage versus your favored enemies. Spells specifically designed to buff your animal companion.

I like this idea in concept. I may try playing around with it. :smallbiggrin:

[Chaosmancer]

I agree with the magic alternative. The biggest problem is that they don't get good unique spells until their highest level (swift quiver!). Some of their spells are good, but it's typically a better idea to have the druid cast them. If they got some really awesome options--like paladins do--at earlier levels, then people might think about being a ranger more.

So, I don't know that they need better features, just some excellent spells! Hunter's Mark is good, but its concentration requirement relegates it to only being relevant at early parts of the game. Also, being level 1 makes it so that other classes can grab it easily without actually taking Ranger! Something like Find Steed/Greater Steed level of cool would do wonders to make a Ranger feel better. Frankly, I don't think it was ever numerically inferior to the other martial characters, but its concept is muddied--especially by overlap with the druid.

There has been some excellent homebrew on this front. Kibblestasty has a new spell list out that does a few neat things for ranger spells.

https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-MVANiyp4Km9GmP5jVjh

One big thing I love is Taking Steel Wind Strike and making it a weapon attack instead of a spell attack, making it more useful for ranger's and less useful for wizards.

There are a few of them I'm not certain about, but I've been gathering updates and homebrews to the ranger spell list for a while, since most of their spells fall off hard and fast.

[Ardantis]

I love the new changes because they are *boring* (read: fundamental) and thus actually effectual.

Favored Foe makes what a Ranger does make more sense. Rangers are good at single-target damage. I don't like Hunter's Mark to begin with- and kinda wish Rangers were magic-free- so it's nice to have a damage boost that gets more daily uses as you progress, and adds just enough damage to make you have to think about when to use it. It's also way better on a character that has more attacks (and thus encourages TWF).

Deft Explorer is COOL. Expertise was badly missed in a skill class, and differentiates Ranger from Paladin. You're gonna pick Stealth (or MAYBE Perception)(Or Athletics for a grappler, heavens to Betsy this opens up new avenues.) Languages also cool, makes sense for a Google Guide-esque character, and gives social ability (Wisdom is a legitimate social stat with Insight.)

Climb and Swim speeds are neat-o. Both for survival and combat, Rangers now vie with Monks for mastery of terrain, making them a solid choice for campaigns with lots of terrain. Also, climbing a wall and shooting people from the ceiling is gross and totally on-point for what Rangers can do that other classes can't manage.

The exhaustion thing is super strong. Technically, losing a level of exhaustion on a rest negates the need to eat... however, it also makes Rangers much better in Dark Sun-esque survival setting where rations, hard marching, and environmental exposure are factors.

Hide in Plain Sight sucks. Magically getting invisible (a-la Firbolg) is functionally more useful. It would be way more powerful to give Ranger Hide as a BA- so this kinda fits with Rangers being more magical than Rogues.

Now, I'm looking forward to the higher-level Ranger abilities! Hunter Ranger becomes a super-strong choice- all the extras don't requires any resource management, and adding Wis to damage seriously beefs up Volley and TWF, so Rangers are hella good.

Oh, yeah, plus a bunch of free spells- which I think is fair since Rangers can't turn spell slots into damage the way Paladins can.

Now your Ranger is on the power level of a Paladin- and invites the DM to introduce more exploration challenges and terrain! Who's up for a Ranger and Monk buddy comedy!?!

[Peelee]

The Mod on the Silver Mountain: No new rules on Thread Necromancy, though.