Are earth genasi really weak?

[Rfkannen]

So in session today my kobold ranger did some stupid stuff and became a earth genasi. I was excited at first, but earth genasi are uh... not great. We are using tasha's stat rules, so having an extra stat point is nice, but I lost pact tactics and instead got... A free casting of a spell I already have (that I will probably swap out) and the ability to ignore difficult terrain, which never comes up in our campaigns.

Is it worth homebrewing a new version of earth genasi? (dm said she was open to the idea) I was thinking some sort of earth version of triton? Any tips for fixing them? Or are earth genasi fine and I am over worried about it?

[strangebloke]

Short answer is yes, they're one of the weakest races in the game.

Longer answer is that if you don't otherwise have access to PWT, that spell alone is enough to elevate them to.... mediocre.

Basically all the genasi are pretty bad if we're being honest. Normally a race as something like 3 feats/ASI worth of abilities. Some have way more than that but have abilities that are hard to use at the same time. See Mountain Dwarves having big boosts to STR and CON and also medium armor (something a STR-focused character almost never needs)

For comparison, earth and air genasi get a single 1/LR 2nd level spell and, uh.....1.5 ASI worth of stats. Underwhelming to say the least.

[Rfkannen]

Short answer is yes, they're one of the weakest races in the game.

Longer answer is that if you don't otherwise have access to PWT, that spell alone is enough to elevate them to.... mediocre.

Basically all the genasi are pretty bad if we're being honest. Normally a race as something like 3 feats/ASI worth of abilities. Some have way more than that but have abilities that are hard to use at the same time. See Mountain Dwarves having big boosts to STR and CON and also medium armor (something a STR-focused character almost never needs)

For comparison, earth and air genasi get a single 1/LR 2nd level spell and, uh.....1.5 ASI worth of stats. Underwhelming to say the least.

Yeah I totally agree, any homebrew you would do to fix it?

[Lunali]

The simplest would be to just use the custom lineage from Tasha's. You lose the +1 stat, but can take a half feat if you really want it, plus your choice of darkvision or a skill.

[Kane0]

and the ability to ignore difficult terrain, which never comes up in our campaigns.
Why not?

I would swap Pass Without Trace to something else if you already have it, maybe add a cantrip like Magic Stone or Mold Earth on top.

[Rfkannen]

Why not?

I would swap Pass Without Trace to something else if you already have it, maybe add a cantrip like Magic Stone or Mold Earth on top.


It just hasn't much. I am a ranger, so I am already able to ignore non-magical difficult terrain, and I don't think that ability has ever come up.

[greenstone]

…ability to ignore difficult terrain, which never comes up in our campaigns.

Really? You've never been in a swamp, or on a steep slope, or in snow and ice? No-one has ever cast spike growth?

*Reads race description again* Oh. It only applies to difficult terrain made of earth or stone. Sheesh, you're right, that feature really does suck.

On the other hand, pass without trace is useful. It has saved our party's bacon on several occasions in Out of the Abyss.

[Rfkannen]

Really? You've never been in a swamp, or on a steep slope, or in snow and ice? No-one has ever cast spike growth?

*Reads race description again* Oh. It only applies to difficult terrain made of earth or stone. Sheesh, you're right, that feature really does suck.

On the other hand, pass without trace is useful. It has saved our party's bacon on several occasions in Out of the Abyss.

Actually the whole campaign takes place in a desert, so we actually haven't lol. Pass withought trace is cool, though as a ranger I am going to have to either just use it as a single free casting in addition to being able to cast it with spell slots, or just switch out the spell known and accept I can only cast it once now.

[Kane0]

It just hasn't much. I am a ranger, so I am already able to ignore non-magical difficult terrain, and I don't think that ability has ever come up.

Oh that's fair, didn't know what level you were.

I'd say go with Tasha's Custom Race then, Earth Genasi literally does nothing for you other than the stat boosts.

[Rfkannen]

As a fix, how does letting pass without trace be cast with normal spell slots (like the new races in ua) and give the mold earth cantrip?

[KyleG]

I made mine almost elemental. Giving them abilities linked in uses to proficiency so they are more inherent. More like aasimar with an elemental form giving "Earth glide" additional movement and no difficult terrain.plus maximillions earthen grasp. Neither ability usable if not in contact with the earth.

[Kane0]

As a fix, how does letting pass without trace be cast with normal spell slots (like the new races in ua) and give the mold earth cantrip?

You could
- Swap ignoring difficult terrain on solid ground for not being forcibly moved when on solid ground.
- Swap Pass Without Trace for Earthen Grasp (adding as spell known too) plus a cantrip (Magic Stone or Mold Earth)

[LudicSavant]

So in session today my kobold ranger did some stupid stuff and became a earth genasi. I was excited at first, but earth genasi are uh... not great. We are using tasha's stat rules, so having an extra stat point is nice, but I lost pact tactics and instead got... A free casting of a spell I already have (that I will probably swap out) and the ability to ignore difficult terrain, which never comes up in our campaigns.

Is it worth homebrewing a new version of earth genasi? (dm said she was open to the idea) I was thinking some sort of earth version of triton? Any tips for fixing them? Or are earth genasi fine and I am over worried about it?

Earth Genasi is quite possibly the best genasi, but genasi in general are weak.

It's even more obvious with Tasha's, since you can compare their features quite directly: Fire Genasi for example is basically a heavily nerfed Tiefling, Water Genasi is a nerfed Triton, Earth Genasi is a nerfed Mark of Passage, Air Genasi is a nerfed (anything that can fly even temporarily, like a Protector Aasimar).

If it were me, I would redesign all of them to be more like elemental-themed Aasimar.

[Rfkannen]

unrelated to the point of the thread, but I mentioned I made this because my kobold got turned into a genasi, here are the two designs I am trying to decide between for what an earth genasi kobold might look like.

https://i.imgur.com/5HJoqPy.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/oOijZRI.png

[Rfkannen]

You could
- Swap ignoring difficult terrain on solid ground for not being forcibly moved when on solid ground.
- Swap Pass Without Trace for Earthen Grasp (adding as spell known too) plus a cantrip (Magic Stone or Mold Earth)

oh I would pick that race in a HEARTBEAT! not being forcibably moved on solid ground seems a bit over powered, but it also looks REALLY COOL! my character has been trying to get earth elementals to build stuff for him, having mold earth would be fitting lol!


Earth Genasi is quite possibly the best genasi, but genasi in general are weak.

It's even more obvious with Tasha's, since you can compare their features quite directly: Fire Genasi for example is basically a heavily nerfed Tiefling, Water Genasi is a nerfed Triton, Earth Genasi is a nerfed Mark of Passage, Air Genasi is a nerfed (anything that can fly even temporarily, like a Protector Aasimar).

If it were me, I would redesign all of them to be more like elemental-themed Aasimar.


Basing them off of aasimar is interesting, you mean the super powered mode they have?

[HPisBS]

Genasi are definitely on the weaker side. Compare to original tiefling / aasimar:



Aasimar / Tiefling
(Earth) Genasi


Darkvision
Ignore some difficult terrain


1 damage resistance (radiant / fire)
---


Lvl 1: Light / Thaumaturgy cantrip
Lvl 1: 1/day Pass Without Trace


Lvl 3: 1/day Lesser Restoration / Hellish Rebuke (2nd lvl)
---


Lvl 5: 1/day Daylight / Darkness
---



That's a pretty huge difference, so I'd say fill in the blanks.

Something like...
Earthen Magic: You know the Magic Stone or Mold Earth cantrip. Once you reach 3rd level, you can cast the Earth Tremor spell as a 2nd-level spell; you must finish a long rest in order to cast the spell again using this trait. Once you reach 5th level, you can also cast the Pass Without Trace spell; you must finish a long rest in order to cast the spell again using this trait. Constitution is your spellcasting ability for these spells.

And instead of immunity to forced movement, I'd probably go with advantage on saves against forced movement and/or prone effects while on earthen or stony terrain.


That's about as close to equal as they can be while staying on theme.

I really have no idea why they didn't do it like this to begin with... aside from, maybe Erupting Earth wasn't written until after Elemental Evil? I'm almost positive the rest was already possible back then, though.

[LudicSavant]

Basing them off of aasimar is interesting, you mean the super powered mode they have?

Yes. I'd love to hear ideas for Volo's Aasimar-style genasi! Transformations and other abilities, too.

[HPisBS]

Yes. I'd love to hear ideas for Volo's Aasimar-style genasi! Transformations and other abilities, too.

Simple answer is toned down Investiture spells.

[LudicSavant]

Simple answer is toned down Investiture spells.

Not a bad idea! How would you stat those out?

[Blithe_Ring]

Breaking a long-standing lurk for this, but I have a great love for Genasi (based mostly in how cool the concept is) and I also think they’re weak. In my campaign world, I have created a home brew version for all four, based as suggested above on Aasimar (Volo’s). It is below, along with some design notes.

Genasi (Overall)

ASI: +2 Constitution, +1 any stat (Based partially on the Tasha’s decoupling of stats from races; this could simply be floating but I have tied racial DCs etc. to CON so it’s recommended to keep CON).
Speed: 30
Languages: Common, Primordial
Sub races: Fire, Air, Water, Earth

Fire:
Darkvision. 60ft., in red shades per official Genasi
Fire Resistance. Per official Genasi.
Fire Manipulation. You know the Control Flames cantrip (and cast it using CON)
Fire Soul (at 3rd level). 1/LR, transform into a partially elemental form for 1 minute. While transformed in this way, you shed bright light within a 30-foot radius and dim light 30ft. beyond that. Additionally, when you transform, you release a burst of flame. All creatures within 5ft. when you transform take fire damage equal to twice your proficiency bonus. While transformed, you can add your proficiency bonus in fire damage to each separate attack or spell damage roll you make on your turn.

Notes:
I modelled the Fire transformation on Scourge Aasimar, but the AOE doesn’t happen each turn so I didn’t make it harm the player also. PB to damage of all attacks is a lot, though it’s only 4 more additional damage at level 20 (assuming four attacks for a Fighter, Monk, or EB Warlock) than an Aasimar would get, as they add their level once per turn. Maybe that’s over complicating it and I should just go with the Aasimar version though!

Air:
Unending Breath. If not incapacitated, you don’t have to breathe (as official Genasi).
Air Manipulation: you know the Gust cantrip (and cast it using CON).
Embrace the Sky. You can cast Feather Fall, on yourself only, at will.
Air Soul (at 3rd level). 1/LR, transform into a partially elemental form for 1 minute. While transformed in this way, you have a flying speed of 30ft. Additionally, while transformed, ranged weapon attacks and opportunity attacks have disadvantage against you.

Notes:
This might be a little weak overall. It has no damage or control stuff, and is all about movement and freedom (which I thought was fitting for the design concept). I could see some forced movement in here, but I think as written the transformation gives a good set of abilities for skirmishing or fighting at range. I would consider trading at-will Feather Fall for some sort of jumping/short-range flight ability here.

Water:
Acid Resistance. As per official Genasi. This could be Cold instead, though.
Amphibious/Swim. As per official Genasi. My campaign is set in an ocean world, so this is much stronger than normal in my game.
Water Manipulation. you know the Shape Water cantrip (and cast it with CON).
Water Soul (at 3rd level) 1/LR, transform into a partially elemental form for 1 minute. While transformed in this way, you can move through gaps as small as 1 inch in diameter without squeezing, and you can spend 5ft. of movement to escape any grapple or non-magical restraint. Additionally, while transformed, you can attempt to push a creature of up to Large size within 5ft. of you as a bonus action. That creature must make a STR save against DC (8+CON+PROF) or be pushed 10 feet away from you by water pressure.

Notes: this transformation has some aspects I could have given to Air - especially the grapple escape. As with Air, it’s more utility than force. I’m not sure if it’s balanced - Freedom of Movement is a fourth-level spell, and this transformation gives you some of that spell plus some of Gaseous Form for one minute. May be overtuned.

Earth:
Earth Walk. Per official Genasi.
Poison Resistance. As per the Dwarf.
Earth Manipulation. You know the Mold Earth cantrip. (and cast it using CON).
Earth Soul (at 3rd level). 1/LR, transform into a partially elemental form for 1 minute. While transformed in this way, you have advantage on Strength and Constitution saving throws, and +2 to AC. Additionally, while transformed, you can move through stone and rock without displacing it, but you can’t end your turn inside it (if you do, you’re pushed out in a straight line to the nearest surface).

Notes: this was hard to design. I leaned into defence as a concept for the transformation, borrowing a little from Investiture of Stone. It’s pretty tanky. I can also see a player doing Lemillion shenanigans with the “Earth Glide” ability, which honestly I would welcome because it’s cool. The non-transform abilities here are a bit of an overhaul. I’m aware Earth Genasi traditionally get Pass Without Trace - and considered buffing the (very) weak Earth Walk with something like Advantage on Stealth when walking on earth or rock to showcase that side of their historical design. The reasons I didn’t is that I consider Poison Resistance a very strong ability (also a very fitting one - how do you poison a rock?).

Overall design is: defensive ability (resistance, or Embrace the Sky), elemental cantrip, utility feature, transform @ level 3. I don’t think this is stronger than Volo’s Aasimar (itself a very strong race, admittedly). The transformations, to me, really say “this is an elemental person”. The official design says to me: “this person can do an elemental spell once per day, and maybe looks exotic”.

Thoughts welcomed!

[Amnestic]

I made Earth Genasi into the following:-

Con +2, Str +1

Language: common, primordial, +1 other

Acid resistance: You have resistance to Acid damage.

Powerful build: You count as one size larger when determining carry capacity and weight you can push, drag, or lift.

Earth Walk: Can move across difficult terrain made of earth/stone without extra movement.

Merge with Stone: You know the Mold Earth cantrip. You can cast the Pass without Trace spell once with this trait, requiring no material components, and you regain the ability to cast it this way when you finish a long rest. Constitution is your spellcasting ability for this spell

Essence of Earth: Starting at 5th level, you can use a bonus action to unleash the elemental energy within yourself, causing your eyes to glow with power. Bits of rock spread across your body for one minute, or until you end it with a bonus action. Until the effect ends ends you gain the following benefits: You have resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage from nonmagical attacks. You can move through solid earth or stone as if it was air and without destabilizing it, but you can't end your movement there. If you do so, you are ejected to the nearest unoccupied space. You must complete a short rest before using this ability again.