Warlock and Concentration: To Hex or not to Hex

[Verble]

I'm building a celestial warlock for a game and in picking out my spells concentration seems an important topic what with warlocks having so few spell slots.

I'm level 5 now, so one casting of Hex lasts 8 hours(presuming successful concentration checks). But this prevents you from casting other concentration spells, so my question to you is how do you handle this? Do you skip Hex altogether so you have free reign for your concentration spells, do you Keep hex and avoid other concentration spells that would end Hex, or do you take a few and just hope you don't need to break concentration early on your Hex.

On my 5th level celestial warlock I've got Hex(lasts 8 hours), Cure Wounds(mainly for topping up HP before a short rest), Invisibility(affects 2 targets), Flaming Sphere(will get Cha bonus to damage next level), misty step(for quick escapes), and Revivify(can gain a spell slot from my rod of the pact keeper to use this in case someone dies).

[Tanarii]

Personally I'd change it to Hold Person or Fear or Hypnotic Pattern. But it really depends how long your battles last and how many you have in 8 hours. It also depends how often you get hit and need to make Concentration checks.

My experience with warlocks in your level range is they (very roughly) get about 2-3 rounds of EB per medium fight, after casting a leveled spell in the first round. Based on a standard adventuring day, call it 15 rounds in an adventuring day vs 6 Invis/Flaming Sphere/Hold Persom/Fear/Hypnotic Pattern spells that can't be cast. (IMC parties regularly pushed on to a third short rest, so I'm scaling down to a typical adventuring day here. But also warlocks no making a decent number of concentration checks in that time is pretty rare.)

Alternatively swap Flaming Sphere to Shatter (non-concentration) and Invis to another utility or defensive non-concentration spell, and stick with Hex.

Also you might want to look into XtgE's thunder step and see if you want to change Misty Step to it.

[Verble]

I should add that I have a Wand of Fireballs that'll let me do some blasting. Also my party consists of a monk, a fighter and a bard, so everyone gets some resources back on short rests.

[MoiMagnus]

I prefer using my concentration for a summon (Tasha added few summon spells to the warlock) or for Hypnotic Pattern. Hold person is a fine choice too.

I'm not saying Hex is bad, especially if you build for Eldritch Blast. Just that I find it boring and frustrating so I don't even have it on my spell list. Boring because it just add more damage. Frustrating because if you lose concentration, it doesn't matter if it theoretically last 8 hours. Such long concentration is also VERY dependent on you GM. Some GM build adventures where the players goes on a regular basis through storms or other difficult environment, and that's additional concentration checks to do (admittedly only DC 10).

[Kane0]

Is it more important for your party that you are dealing out more damage or using slots and concentration on control and support instead?

Given you have a wand of fireballs and only a bard as the other caster I would wager Hex would be down on the priority list compared to BFC, summons and heals.

[Keravath]

It is really circumstantial. Depending on the fight, what you encounter, the make up of the rest of the party, and your spell selection.

1) Flaming sphere from a third level slot is doing 3d6 ~ 10.5 fire damage with a save for 1/2. Assuming you have agonizing blast and 18 charisma then your cantrip is doing 2d10+8 ~ 19 damage. Even if you get to add +4 damage next level to flaming sphere ... I don't really see it being a very good use of a spell slot. If you used hex in conjunction with agonizing blast the damage goes to an average of 26 every turn. (even if only one agonizing blast+hex hits it does 13 which is more than a failed save from flaming sphere and it does force/necrotic damage which are less often resisted than fire).

2) You have cure wounds, however, you also have healing light which gives you 1+level d6 to be spent for healing as a bonus action. The healing light is a long rest resource but you essentially have access to 6 healing spells/day already which only costs a bonus action, has a range of 60' and is scalable in an emergency. I'm not sure I would bother with cure wounds.


Warlocks are terribly limited by spell slots especially in tier 1,2. Ideally, you want your spell slots used to change the face of the encounter. Thus, hypnotic pattern - which can be extremely effective if enough creatures are mesmerized and don't know that all they need to do is shake their friends awake. There are similarly other spells that can have a big impact on combat (fear). However, if the scenario/circumstance is such that there are only a couple of creatures in the area of effect for hypnotic pattern or fear then you might as well be doing as much damage as possible - so you go back to hex - and if it has an 8 hour duration you can still short rest to get your two spell slots back before the next encounter and just decide then whether to keep up concentrating on hex or drop another spell.

Basically, you have hex up if there is nothing better to do with a spell slot and since it last 8 hours, you will probably short rest and have both your spell slots for the next encounter anyway. I think the bigger room for improvement is in your other spell choices.

[Tanarii]

and that's additional concentration checks to do (admittedly only DC 10).
Unless you have access to multiclass or feats, most warlocks are probably only getting +1 to +2 to Con saves.

[MoiMagnus]

Unless you have access to multiclass or feats, most warlocks are probably only getting +1 to +2 to Con saves.

You're right, though there is also Paladin's aura at level 6 which is help if you know you're gonna get some concentration checks on a regular basis (and Paladin is IME a very popular class).

[diplomancer]

One possibility I'm considering, also for a Celestial Warlock, is getting Hex from the Fey-Touched feat. This way I can at least cast it once a day from a "free" level 1 slot if I want to increase my damage, but don't need to worry too much about losing several hours worth of it if I switch to a more powerful spell in a tougher battle.

[greenstone]

I should add that I have a Wand of Fireballs that'll let me do some blasting. Also my party consists of a monk, a fighter and a bard, so everyone gets some resources back on short rests.

Those seem like they could be melee heavy characters. If so, note that hexing opponents' strength will help the party prone a target and keep them prone.

Hexing an enemy caster's intelligence (or wisdom or charisma, as appropriate) will decrease their ability to counterspell and dispel your party's spells.

[Pex]

Hex is a good spell. Its problem is that it becomes obsolete not by no longer being effetive but outclassed by other spells. In addition, the warlock spellslots mean more. Are you really wanting to cast a 3rd level spell slot for a 1st level spell? What happens when you're 9th level casting 5th level spell slots? It is hard to let go, but eventually warlocks outgrow Hex. Game analysis will say how awesome 3d10 + 3d6 + 15 damage is at 11th level every round, but 3d10 + 15 for Rounds 2 to whatever plus Other Awesome Effect Round 1 is also good and often better.

At 5th level Hex is still worth it. Don't need to rid of it yet, but let the game tell you when you to let go. Don't cast Hex because of its duration. Cast it because you want its effect. Soon you'll find other spells having priority. When you notice you're casting Hex less and less you're ready to trade it away. You may decide to keep it for those once in a while throw away combats where you dont' need big boom spells and you know you're short resting afterwords so you cast for nostalgia sake.

If you don't want casting Eldritch Blast to be boring, consider Repelling Blast invocation. It always remains useful, and you can use it to force enemies back into the AOE spell you're concentrating on, or an ally's.

[Hael]

It’s good to have at the beginning of the day, so that you have full spell slots, and can use it in a pinch for an easy fight. But once he heavy lifting starts at fifth lvl you are going to want to concentrate on something better like a one hour summon (summons massively out damage and outsustain hex)

Concentration for a warlock is made easier nowadays with the eldritch mind invocation.

[sophontteks]

You can make hex builds. There are several invocations that work off of hex and make it stronger. Some warlock subclasses also have a good number of non-concentration bonus spells. These are builds typically focused on blasting.

For example, something like an efreeti or a fiend warlock using scorching ray on a hexed target along with maddening hex for AOE damage.

Outside these builds, hex isn't strong enough to keep using after level 5.

EDIT: Tasha also gave warlocks animate dead in a new invocation. It's a nice option for those who are focusing on hex.

[Bloodcloud]

It really depends on what spells you want to be casting. For a fiend lock who likes his fireballs, it's great. If you like control spells, or utility spells, it gets quite obsolete.

[Zaltman]

Don’t forget to think about your Eldridge invocations interaction too. I love detect magic at will with Eldritch Sight, but it takes concentration so it kills Hex. All depends on what is important to your character.

[Frogreaver]

I'm building a celestial warlock for a game and in picking out my spells concentration seems an important topic what with warlocks having so few spell slots.

I'm level 5 now, so one casting of Hex lasts 8 hours(presuming successful concentration checks). But this prevents you from casting other concentration spells, so my question to you is how do you handle this? Do you skip Hex altogether so you have free reign for your concentration spells, do you Keep hex and avoid other concentration spells that would end Hex, or do you take a few and just hope you don't need to break concentration early on your Hex.

On my 5th level celestial warlock I've got Hex(lasts 8 hours), Cure Wounds(mainly for topping up HP before a short rest), Invisibility(affects 2 targets), Flaming Sphere(will get Cha bonus to damage next level), misty step(for quick escapes), and Revivify(can gain a spell slot from my rod of the pact keeper to use this in case someone dies).

I'm a big fan of control warlocks.
Hold Person, Hypnotic Pattern, Banishment, Hold Monster. With those 4 spells you have some dang good control.

So I would forgo hex. Heck with a celestial warlock I might even forgo EB because sacred flame is okay for them and I can use the savings to instead pick up other invocations.

My spell list by level 9 might look something like this:
Control Spells
Hold Person
Hold Monster
Hypnotic Pattern
Banishment

Exploration Spells
Invisibility
Fly
Dimension Door

Healing Spells
Revivify
Cure wounds

Other Spells
Counterspell

[micahaphone]

Here's my take on warlocks pre-11. You have 2 spell slots, this is best spent on 1 concentration offensive spell (such as hex, Hunger of Hadar, Fear, Hypnotic Pattern, Hold Person, Shadow Blade), before you return to blasting with EB, and then 1 spell slot kept in reserve for emergency/defensive use (Armor of Agathys, Misty Step/Thunder Step, Fear again, etc).

What's great is when a spell can fit both roles on your list, like fly or banishment or fear.

While you can get great slot efficiency with Hex, I generally find by level 5 you've got other great spells that use concentration. I could see keeping it if your table goes through many fights without a short rest, but in my experience hex was never cast after level 4-5 and I swapped it out of my spell list eventually.

[Frogreaver]

Here's my take on warlocks pre-11. You have 2 spell slots, this is best spent on 1 concentration offensive spell (such as hex, Hunger of Hadar, Fear, Hypnotic Pattern, Hold Person, Shadow Blade), before you return to blasting with EB, and then 1 spell slot kept in reserve for emergency/defensive use (Armor of Agathys, Misty Step/Thunder Step, Fear again, etc).

What's great is when a spell can fit both roles on your list, like fly or banishment or fear.

While you can get great slot efficiency with Hex, I generally find by level 5 you've got other great spells that use concentration. I could see keeping it if your table goes through many fights without a short rest, but in my experience hex was never cast after level 4-5 and I swapped it out of my spell list eventually.

This is a great point! Many tables don't actually go through all that many encounters in a day. If you are only going through a few encounters an adventuring day then hex is nearly never worth it compared to the other options.

[fbelanger]

Hex management is a curse for warlock!

[micahaphone]

I will caveat that my friend group makes short rests a bit easier to get than RAW - they can be had while walking/riding at a casual pace, and don't necessarily take a full hour. Not going for the heroic rest variant, more "your party has been walking/investigating the room/talking with npcs for half an hour, we'll call that a short rest"

[sophontteks]

...more "your party has been walking/investigating the room/talking with npcs for half an hour, we'll call that a short rest"
That's about right for how a short rest should be seen. There is an awful lot that's already handwaved as a part of that, like repairing gear, stretching, eating etc.

[GentlemanVoodoo]

I'm building a celestial warlock for a game and in picking out my spells concentration seems an important topic what with warlocks having so few spell slots.

I'm level 5 now, so one casting of Hex lasts 8 hours(presuming successful concentration checks). But this prevents you from casting other concentration spells, so my question to you is how do you handle this? Do you skip Hex altogether so you have free reign for your concentration spells, do you Keep hex and avoid other concentration spells that would end Hex, or do you take a few and just hope you don't need to break concentration early on your Hex.

I take what spells I need. Even with limited slots I will use Hex when extra damage is needed or the disadvantage effect is required. If it is active and another concentration related spell proves useful the next following turns then I drop Hex for what is needed. You can't plan ahead for everything and if spell slots get used up then so be it. A wise Warlock player takes stock of everything they have, not just spells which is only 1/3 of their total arsenal. More so taking notice of what other characters bring to the table and learning how to benefit from what everyone has.

[da newt]

Of course it also depends on what your party needs / expects out of you. If your party is control heavy, your DPR might be more useful than your concentration spells ...

Only time and play will tell for your particular circumstances. I like to build for multiple niches when I can, so I like to hold onto HEX. Sometimes just hanging back and spamming EB with a push is fun / simple.

[Cikomyr2]

to be honest, I have been using my concentration mostly on Summon Undead. The ghost form is particularly effective in a lot of situation, and the fear effect can make a big difference.

[da newt]

The tasha's summons are interesting options vs hex. I haven't messed with them yet.

The 300 gp per casting and action are an interesting costs, but it sure seems like it would be really handy to have another ally for DPR, condition creation, and to absorb a few attacks. Also there seems to be a nice boost when you upcast to lvl 4 for multi attack ...

Why do you prefer to summon ghost over the other options?

[Cikomyr2]

The tasha's summons are interesting options vs hex. I haven't messed with them yet.

The 300 gp per casting and action are an interesting costs, but it sure seems like it would be really handy to have another ally for DPR, condition creation, and to absorb a few attacks. Also there seems to be a nice boost when you upcast to lvl 4 for multi attack ...

Why do you prefer to summon ghost over the other options?

the material component is NOT consumed by the casting my good man. It's a 1-time cost, like Identify

Edit: that will teach me to reply without reading the full post.

I only have actual experience with Summon Undead, btw. Because I themed my Warlock at Necromancy.

you have 3 choices:

1- Skeleton "Archer" --> nothing special. He walks, he shoots, decent damage. That's the summon if you just want to remove HP.
2- Zombie --> Very solid against a group of enemies, but be very careful where you place him because your allies are subject to his nauseating Aura to, and you don't want to poison your teammates. the Poison effect is nice, but hard to enforce consistently I found out (my allies wisely prefer to take out enemies that I softened up, so I can't blame them). Having Telekinetic as a feat helps a LOT with this one, since you can manipulate your allies to protect them. At level 3, the Z is tankier than the other summon, but otherwise do sub-par damage. The Paralyzing touch sounds sexy, but it depends on a double-failed CON save - and poisoned doesn't give disadvantage on saving throws. It also depends on enemies STARTING their turn next to your Z, which is a bitch to arrange.

3- The Ghost.

Oh man. Let me tell you about the ghost. Better damage dice than the Zombie, slightly less optimal dice than the Skeleton (1d8 vs 2d4). He can fly 40 feet/turn, so engage flying enemies. He can pass through walls to get to enemies. He can pass through enemies to flank them.

But let me tell you: at EVERY hit you force a Wisdom saving throw against your spell save DC. EVERY. HIT. Or the enemy is frightened. That's disadvantage on all saving throws, and the enemy can't get closer to your ghost for the next round. Oh, and I have Mind Sliver, so this helps having a constant debuff.

Let me tell you about Battlefield Control. The Ghost is a damage mitigation machine. He can reach anyone, and make them stop bothering your party or debuff the enemy, 9 casting out of 10.

And if the enemy is immune to fear, just take the skeleton

That the beauty of Summon Undead. Your variety palette is WAY wider in style and contribution to the battle than other summon spells.

[da newt]

"the material component is NOT consumed by the casting my good man. It's a 1-time cost, like Identify"

Interesting - I missed that when I read it.

[Cikomyr2]

"the material component is NOT consumed by the casting my good man. It's a 1-time cost, like Identify"

Interesting - I missed that when I read it.

I have been playing for 2 years and only realized the same in December last year. So don't feel bad about that. Unless the spell explicitly say the spell component is consumed, it never is.

[Tanarii]

I have been playing for 2 years and only realized the same in December last year. So don't feel bad about that. Unless the spell explicitly say the spell component is consumed, it never is.
It took me forever to wrap my brain around this being independent of cost. As in, I got that was the rule for costed components, but assumed it was only the rule for costed component even. And no-cost ones disappeared after use.

Something something grognard

[freakybeak]

I feel like with the increasing duration as you level up, it's worth keeping on the spell list. It's probably not what you need in high stakes fights, but there are situations in which having a spell that lasts multiple encounters and boosts your damage throughout is very useful. For instance, I was in a dungeon crawl on my hexblade warlock, and had only one spell slot left (and my rod of the pact keeper was tapped) and I was relatively certain there would be more than one encounter before the next opportunity to long or short rest. Having a damage boost on every EB can be very useful over a few reasonably easy encounters to save party resources.

There is also the option of trying to find some way to get it going early in the adventuring day. For instance, my party's bard has been training a pet falcon. A cute, but somewhat mechanically powerful trick would be to take the last watch of the night, spend a little time looking for a worm or similar for the falcon, hex the worm and then throw it to them as food. You can then short rest either before the party wakes or as they are getting ready and recover the spell slot meaning you have a floating hex available most of the day should you need it.

[Tanarii]

There is also the option of trying to find some way to get it going early in the adventuring day. For instance, my party's bard has been training a pet falcon. A cute, but somewhat mechanically powerful trick would be to take the last watch of the night, spend a little time looking for a worm or similar for the falcon, hex the worm and then throw it to them as food. You can then short rest either before the party wakes or as they are getting ready and recover the spell slot meaning you have a floating hex available most of the day should you need it.
Every time a I read something like this, I'm torn between
- they should have hard coded the rule that Hex can only be applied to CR 1/8 or higher creatures :smallyuk:
- warlocks keeping a coop of chicks to sacrifice for power is totally appropriate :smallamused: