Strength monk

[J-H]

The way the Monk class is built, it has great support for the lean, quick martial artist who uses agility and cunning/foresight/ki to dodge his opponents, hit them where it hurts, knock them down, etc.

There's no good support for a Mike Tyson/T. Hawk/Zangief/etc. type character who is a strength-based martial artist who uses strength, speed, and good instincts to do the same thing. It's pretty much impossible to build a STR monk that doesn't end up behind a DEX monk (I tried, and Tortle is the best it gets). You can go unarmed barbarian with a feat tax, but without a dip of some sort for flurry, you end up with something that just doesn't work very well.

To "fix" this, here's a thought for a houserule:
-At character creation, a monk player may decide to apply his Strength modifier, rather than his Dexterity modifier, to AC. Monk AC thus becomes STR+WIS rather than DEX+WIS.

This represents powerful blocks and redirects rather than agile dodging; Str is selected rather than Con because there's already plenty of incentive for CON (HP) and barbarians already own blocking blows with their mighty thews.
The strength monk can thus go for the Athletics/wrestling/fast big guy (football player?) archetype, without completely tanking his AC.

Downsides: The STR monk has lower initiative than the Dex monk, and isn't going to be as good at Evasion. Ranged attacks will suffer. He's probably stuck with Athletics over Acrobatics, but that's a fair trade. AC and damage should keep up just fine with the Dex monk but not bypass it.

I don't see any way that this can be abused/broken*, but please feel free to prove me wrong.

*Aside from shapeshifting via polymorph, Wildshape, and True Polymorph, because there are more high-STR beasts than high-DEX beasts.

[LumenPlacidum]

Tortle monk is, indeed, the best this gets. However, I want to point out how good that actually is!

I agree that a splash into something else makes the Tortle monk better. I would recommend Barbarian 2 Monk X, or Barbarian 3 Monk X if you can find a good subclass (best I see is Beast barbarian and using the tail for reaction defense).

Have a greatsword and a longsword. Whichever one is out you're going to be wielding with two hands. Against big foes against whom you are comfortable spending Ki points, go with the greatsword. If you're fighting the small fry, go with the longsword.

The greatsword is not a monk weapon; this means that you cannot use your Martial Arts ability. You... weren't planning on using it anyway! Tortle gives you a damage die with your unarmed strikes, and you're using Strength. You miss out on the bonus action attack, but frankly I'm not sure you need it. Flurry of Blows provides twice as much benefit and has no equipment requirements. Your AC isn't as good, but it's still decent. And, you have resistance to physical damage to provide defense instead of AC, while raging.

At level 4, when you have 2 levels of each class, your attack routine while raging is Greatsword +5[adv] (2d6+5 slashing) and 2 unarmed strikes +5[adv] (1d4+5 slashing), for an expected damage of 18.45 damage per round against an AC 18 foe. That's amazingly good damage for the level! In fact, it's probably the best damage you can find at the level. Even a sorcadin smiter isn't doing that kind of damage.

At level 5 you don't have a huge spike because of the multiclass, but if you can go to level 7, you get the Extra Attack. Then you're doing 2 Greatswords +7[adv] (2d6+6) and 2 unarmed strikes +7[adv] (1d4+6) for an expected 34.1 damage against an AC 18 foe. That's still very, very good. The smiters are ahead of you, but no one else is.

The defense of the character gets a little weaker as you go up in level. The hit die of the monk is a little sad compared to the hit die of the barbarian characters who tank by taking damage to the face with style. However, some monk subclasses have superb defensive abilities! Monk of the Long Death with its ability to turn a ki point into an "I ignore dying" is pretty solid, but I think the best pairing is the Drunken Master monk (which, by the way, has excellent thematic synergy as well). Opponents are attacking you with advantage, meaning that you're giving them a 9.875% chance of critting! Every time someone crits you, you spend a ki point and make them crit someone else. Make it their ally if you can!

At some point, it will become better to use a longsword, because your martial arts die improved to the point where you want to get a sizable die on your unarmed strikes. It's probably at 19th level. At that point, your attack routine suddenly jumps to 2 Longswords +11[adv] (1d10+7) and 5 unarmed strikes +11[adv] (1d10+7) as long as there are a bunch of enemies for you to hit. Calculation-wise, if you can manage to get surrounded (oddly, pretty much the best case scenario for you), you can unload 59.6 damage per round on the foes. That's a remarkably good amount of damage for a martial character at that level.

I'd go so far as to say that the strength-based tortle monkbarian is probably the best monk build I've analyzed. Also, tortle is nice because it's easy, but when you go in this direction, there's no reason you can't just do any other race involving an unarmed damage die and wear armor. You'll lose your fast movement, unarmored AC bonus, and martial arts, but you aren't really using any of those anyway, other than the fast movement.

Dragonborn (with dragon hide feat), Aarakocra, Tabaxi, Centaur, Lizardfolk, Minotaur, Simic Hybrid, Leonin, Satyr; they're all valid options for this because you can ignore your Martial Arts die progression and not worry about armor. There's nothing that prevents you from using Flurry of Blows with this character when wearing half-plate.

[kaoskonfety]

I'd be more inclined to offer and alternate STR + DEX as an alternate unarmoured defence for those looking for a "I caught the fist, and then kicked their guts 5 times" styled defence if a player was seeking this.

This could be interesting either way just to open it up a bit to a more brutal take on monk, not sure if I'd want to tweak anything else in the monk kit to accommodate: maybe Stunning fist at least, less quivering palm more "I dislocated your jaw, you should fall down now"

[Brawnspear]

As a DM I've had a player that wanted to do this. Basically we just swapped everywhere Dex was relevant to the class with Str. DCs, AC, Deflect arrows etc. In turn, the general agreement is they would stay monk, and not try to cheese the benefit aka turning into a Giant Ape, abusing Great weapon master or what have you. Worked out pretty well. I think we talked about letting them use a bow with their str modifier instead but that never really came up.
I find that allowing tweaks to single classed characters can work out just fine, so long as both parties agree to not take advantage of the change.

[x3n0n]

I think the best pairing is the Drunken Master monk (which, by the way, has excellent thematic synergy as well). Opponents are attacking you with advantage, meaning that you're giving them a 9.875% chance of critting! Every time someone crits you, you spend a ki point and make them crit someone else. Make it their ally if you can!.\

I think I must have missed something here. Are you using this feature?

"Redirect Attack. When a creature misses you with a melee attack roll, you can spend 1 ki point as a reaction to cause that attack to hit one creature of your choice, other than the attacker, that you can see within 5 feet of you."

[Unoriginal]

You can go unarmed barbarian with a feat tax, but without a dip of some sort for flurry, you end up with something that just doesn't work very well.

Beast Barbarian can do it without feat tax.

[qube]

sonally I played a barbarian (zealot) as strength monk. Usnig 2 short swords (you can ignore finesse), for 1d6+STR / 1d6 ; and the first hit a serious damage boost from zealot.

[heavyfuel]

There's no good support for a Mike Tyson/T. Hawk/Zangief/etc. type character

I'd argue that all of these are Fighters with a Barbarian dip for Unarmored Defense. I'm not familiar with T.Hawk, but Tyson and Zangief don't strike me as particularly wise.

Still, Str is generally inferior to Dex (less common saves, fewer skills, no bonus to initiative) so i'd be fine with that houserule.

[LumenPlacidum]

I think I must have missed something here. Are you using this feature?

"Redirect Attack. When a creature misses you with a melee attack roll, you can spend 1 ki point as a reaction to cause that attack to hit one creature of your choice, other than the attacker, that you can see within 5 feet of you."

I swear I looked that feature up and thought it said "attacks". Ah well.

[Unoriginal]

Also worth noting, the Unarmed Fighting Style is a thing now.

Doesn't change the armor thing, to be fair.

[heavyfuel]

Also worth noting, the Unarmed Fighting Style is a thing now.

Doesn't change the armor thing, to be fair.

How big would it be to have a variant class feature that replaced armor proficency for Barbarian-like unarmored defense?

A Fighter with Unarmed FS and unarmored defense would work much better as a boxer than a zen-monk.

[Dork_Forge]

Personally I like Leonin Barbarians as Stronk stand ins:

-Unarmed damage die from the claws

-Between the 35ft base speed and the 10ft fast Movement bump you still end up feeling Monk fast (and if you use the Optional Tasha's rules, you can move on a rage bonus to sprint and close distance)

-Unarmored Defense, it won't be super high, but it doesn't need to be, you're a Barbarian not a Monk. Flex your higher hit die and resistance, leave dex at a +2 if using point buy and push Str and Con.

-Subclass, really depends on what you want, if you want a lot of 'unarmed' atacks, then Beast, looking to be durable then Bear totem, damage in general then Zealot.

If you didn't go Beast and want to advance your die then just pick up unarmed style from the feat or a fighter dip down the line, your Rage damage should compensate largely for the missing die size/bonus attack.

[SupahCabre]

Beast Barbarian can do it without feat tax.

Not just that. A Fighter with Unarmed Fighting style will out damage a unarmed Monk in DPR until level 17 where the Monk finally catches up (but doesn't surpass)

[J-H]

Monks also get good knockdowns (open hand) and other features... I like the melee CC. The only way I see to get that on a fighter or barbarian is disarms, battlemaster, or the Crusher feat. What other options are there?

[Kane0]

Saw this not too long ago about a STR monk actually.

https://imgur.com/gallery/aMQS8BS

Pretty similar ideas.

[Unoriginal]

Not just that. A Fighter with Unarmed Fighting style will out damage a unarmed Monk in DPR until level 17 where the Monk finally catches up (but doesn't surpass)

The Monk gets more attacks than the Unarmed Fighter for most of their career, which put the DPR slightly in the Monk's favor, and the Monk's martial art die becomes 1d8 at lvl 11.


Now a lvl 1 Monk with Unarmed Fighting Style somehow? Now that's having dynamite fists.

[Dork_Forge]

Monks also get good knockdowns (open hand) and other features... I like the melee CC. The only way I see to get that on a or barbarian is disarms, battlemaster, or the Crusher feat. What other options are there?

I mean, Monks in general aren't good at those things, it's really only the Open Hands niche.

in general:

-Shove prone
-Grapple
-Slasher (speed debuff)
-Telekinetic Strike (Psi Warrior)


That's all that comes to mind with what would fit an 'unarmed' aesthetic.

[CTurbo]

If the UA Brute Fighter is on the table, it would make a pretty great unarmored/unarmed character when combined with some Monk.

Brute 16/Monk 4, with the Unarmed Fighting Style, would get 4-5 attacks a round and deal 2d8+Str per punch. With 7 ASIs at level 20, you could easily max Str, Wis, and Dex if you wanted. You even get a 2nd Fighting Style which you could use to take Archery or Mariner for +1 AC.

If you want more Monk stuff, Brute 12/Monk 8 would work just fine. You give up 1 ASI and your unarmed attacks "only" deal 1d8+1d6+Str, but you have a lot more ki to play around with.

Bugbear would be fun with the extra 5ft reach on punches.
Goliath would be a fitting race for this.
Regular Human would be good for the madness of wanting a good Str+Dex+Con+Wis.