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NOMster
2021-03-16, 10:31 AM
I'm sure this has been answered a hundred times, but I can't seem to find it. Is there a 3.5 source that says shifters are immune to lycanthropy? I've seen people proclaim that, and people say it's absolutely wrong.
Kelb_Panthera
2021-03-16, 09:51 PM
A lycanthrope isn't immune to further strains of lycanthropy. Not explicitly, anyway. Why would a shifter be immune? This is the first I've ever even seen it claimed.
NOMster
2021-03-16, 09:58 PM
The post on here says it as if it's absolute well known fact but i don't know where that was coming from.

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?332264-Eberron-shifter-becoming-a-full-lycanthrope
Remuko
2021-03-16, 10:34 PM
The post on here says it as if it's absolute well known fact but i don't know where that was coming from.

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?332264-Eberron-shifter-becoming-a-full-lycanthrope

i just spent like 10-15 mins googling and reading everything i can on shifters and i can not find any source suggesting they cant get lycanthropy.


Edit: i read your link and did more googling. That guy in your link was talking about the pathfinder shifter CLASS not the shifter race. The pathfinder shifter class becomes immune to curse of lycanthropy. Weretouched is a shifter archetype from Pathfinder.

PFSRD link: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/shifter/archetypes/weretouched-shifter-archetype/
NOMster
2021-03-17, 09:26 AM
i just spent like 10-15 mins googling and reading everything i can on shifters and i can not find any source suggesting they cant get lycanthropy.


Edit: i read your link and did more googling. That guy in your link was talking about the pathfinder shifter CLASS not the shifter race. The pathfinder shifter class becomes immune to curse of lycanthropy. Weretouched is a shifter archetype from Pathfinder.

PFSRD link: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/shifter/archetypes/weretouched-shifter-archetype/

why would he be talking about a PF class in a 3.5 thread if he mentions the errata for the 3.5 weretouched master? That doesn't make any sense.
Kelb_Panthera
2021-03-17, 11:10 AM
why would he be talking about a PF class in a 3.5 thread if he mentions the errata for the 3.5 weretouched master? That doesn't make any sense.

Some groups do mix the two and this subforum is for both. Alternately, he was simply running off of memory and got details of two things with the same name twisted in his head.
Vhaidara
2021-03-17, 11:58 AM
They were not taking about the PF Shifter class, given that the thread in question is from 2014 and the PF shifter was released in 2017
Thurbane
2021-03-17, 04:31 PM
A lycanthrope isn't immune to further strains of lycanthropy. Not explicitly, anyway. Why would a shifter be immune? This is the first I've ever even seen it claimed.

That...had never occurred to me.

Trying to get my head around a Human Werewolf/Wereboar or similar...just, whoah...
Falontani
2021-03-17, 05:26 PM
I always thought they were Monstrous Humanoids, but nope, they are humanoids with the Shapechanger subtype. In past editions Shapechanger was its own type rather than a subtype, so maybe it is supposed to be that Humanoids with the Shapechanger subtype can't become Lycanthropes, but by RAW... go ahead I guess? Eberron does not have any Lycanthrope Shifters, and it would probably go against it's lore, but I would have to look hard to find that.
NOMster
2021-03-18, 09:34 AM
Some groups do mix the two and this subforum is for both. Alternately, he was simply running off of memory and got details of two things with the same name twisted in his head.


They were not taking about the PF Shifter class, given that the thread in question is from 2014 and the PF shifter was released in 2017

I didn't even think of that as being part of it. thanks.
The_Jette
2021-03-18, 11:48 AM
A lycanthrope isn't immune to further strains of lycanthropy. Not explicitly, anyway. Why would a shifter be immune? This is the first I've ever even seen it claimed.

Afaik, lycanthrope's type changes to Shapechanger after becoming infected, which I'm pretty sure makes it immune to further infection from lycanthropy since it only affects humanoids and giants.

Also, Shifters are humanoids, meaning they aren't immune to lycanthropy.
Sir_Chivalry
2021-03-18, 01:02 PM
Also in the fluff of the setting, shifters are not immune. I held the belief they were for some time, and even quoted it on several occasions . . . but I was wrong

Lycanthropy in setting was a threat to the shifters as much as the other humanoids, for the reasons stated in the rest of this thread.
NOMster
2021-03-18, 01:33 PM
Afaik, lycanthrope's type changes to Shapechanger after becoming infected, which I'm pretty sure makes it immune to further infection from lycanthropy since it only affects humanoids and giants.

Also, Shifters are humanoids, meaning they aren't immune to lycanthropy.

"Shapechanger Subtype: Shifters are humanoids with the shapechanger subtype."
Thurbane
2021-03-18, 03:18 PM
Afaik, lycanthrope's type changes to Shapechanger after becoming infected, which I'm pretty sure makes it immune to further infection from lycanthropy since it only affects humanoids and giants.

"Shapechanger Subtype: Shifters are humanoids with the shapechanger subtype."

True - Shapechanger was its own type in 3.0, but in 3.5 it is a subtype.
NOMster
2021-03-18, 03:28 PM
right. I'm just trying to clarify if that meant they couldn't be 2 shapechangers because a lycanthrope was also a humanoid with the shapechanger subtype.
Remuko
2021-03-18, 04:07 PM
Afaik, lycanthrope's type changes to Shapechanger after becoming infected, which I'm pretty sure makes it immune to further infection from lycanthropy since it only affects humanoids and giants.


Size and Type
The base creature’s type does not change, but the creature gains the shapechanger subtype.

Lycanthropes are subtype. in 3.5 shapechanger isnt a type.
NOMster
2021-03-20, 11:05 PM
I found it. the answer is in savage species. they can't be lycanthropes because they are already humanoid(shapechanger) and once a creature is that, they can only become a few other things but not a shapechanger twice according to the template pyramid.
Telonius
2021-03-20, 11:41 PM
I found it. the answer is in savage species. they can't be lycanthropes because they are already humanoid(shapechanger) and once a creature is that, they can only become a few other things but not a shapechanger twice according to the template pyramid.

Yeah, the template pyramid was probably where the confusion came in. Savage Species was a 3.0 book, and the pyramid was a 3.0 rule. Types and Subtypes changed around (a lot) between 3.0 and 3.5. In 3.5, they were much more standardized. As of 3.5, any changes to the type were specified in the templates themselves, and the pyramid went out the window. The problem was, it was such a useful thing in 3.0, and the changes weren't always immediately apparent, so that a lot of groups still had the pyramid in their heads when adjudicating any type changes after the 3.5 update.
NOMster
2021-03-21, 02:12 AM
So can you have the same subtype twice?
Remuko
2021-03-21, 03:16 AM
So can you have the same subtype twice?

no, if you already have it you dont gain it again, but it doesnt prevent you from anything unless specified so. most templates give you an augmented subtype if they change your type, but you can still take other templates even if normally they'd give you the augmented subtype you already have.