Planar Touchstone: a few questions for a Chameleon build

[Chalhubard]

Hello, playground, been toying around with a chameleon build for our next table, to start around level 10ish. I plan on grabbing the first level of Spelldancer (MoF pg. 37) for persistent shenanigans, but I also wanted a splash of other classes to truly have a few tricks besides Chameleon juicy casting, so, here are the actual questions:



Can I use Planar Touchstone: Catalogues of Enlightenment to qualify for Spelldancer's requirements (3rd level spells)?
With Chameleon's floating feat can I grab Initiate of Mystra if my patron deity is Mystra - or any other Initiate Feat? Champions of Valor's assessment of Initiate feats (pg. 27) seems to corroborate with this idea, as it states: "Initiate feats are available only to clerics (or other divine spellcaster) level as well". And the Catalogues, in their turn, gives you the ability to "cast a spell from the cleric domain [...] as though you had prepared the spell normally".
Is it right to assume the casting ability provided by the Touchstone is divine? There is no indication if it's either arcane or divine, but it would be far fetched to believe it isn't the latter. If a spell can be bereft of a type, however, this kills point 3. Is there any precedent of a type-less spell in this regard?
Suppose I had War Domain from the Catalogues, would it charge the Holy Warrior feat or any other combination with a reserve feat? If so, that's a really buff for any mundane for the cost of two feats.


Either way, here's the build stub. The main idea is to persist some good melee buffs and double as a skillmonkey. I reckon Energy Bow (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20061227a) alone would make this a formidable archer even with no archery-related feats.

We are playing with one flaw allowed. Character will be of old age, so starting INT would be 20, kicking up skill points a notch. Not sure if the DM is gonna be liberal about Extra Spell Slots for 7th and 8th level spells, so I have included alternative feats - wonder if Carmendine Monk INT to AC would stack with Unarmed Swordsage's WIS to AC Bonus. The main idea is to use Invisible Fist offensively, triggering Iaijutsu damage and act as an off-tank with Word Given Form + Elusive Target. The floating feat would be shuffled between Elusive Target, Bind Vestige (when needed), and Initiate of Mystra (if legal). I guess I could probably grab Selective Spell from a Metamagic Storm for some weird Emanations or Chain Spell for maximum party happiness.

Did I overrate brains over brawn? I keep having the feeling I should grab more initiator levels. A +8 or +10 bonus to DEX checks seem reaaaaally good, but still, I'm not sure. Any suggestions or critics regarding the build as a whole would be quite welcome.






Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
Factotum 1
+0
+0
+2
+0
Balance 4, Bluff 4, Concentration 4, Disable
Device 4, Disguise 4, Escape Artist 4, Hide 4,
Knowledge (planes) 4, Perform (dance) 4,
Search 4, Tumble 4, Use Magical Device 4
Able Learner
Combat Casting (H)
Endurance (F)
Trapfinding, Inspiration, Cunning Insight,
Cunning Knowledge


2nd
Monk 1
+0
+2
+4
+2
Balance 5, Bluff 5, Concentration 4, Disable
Device 5, Disguise 5, Escape Artist 5, Hide 4,
Knowledge (planes) 5, Perform (dance) 5,
Search 5, Tumble 5, Use Magical Device 5
Dodge (M)
Unarmed Strike, AC Bonus, Decisive Strike


3rd
Monk 2
+1
+3
+5
+3
Balance 6, Bluff 6, Concentration 4, Disable
Device 6, Disguise 6, Escape Artist 6, Hide 4,
Knowledge (planes) 6, Perform (dance) 6,
Search 6, Tumble 6, Use Magical Device 6
Knowledge Devotion
Mobility (M)
Invisible Fist


4th
Fighter 1
+2
+5
+5
+3
Balance 7, Bluff 7, Concentration 4, Disable
Device 7, Disguise 7, Escape Artist 6, Hide 4,
Knowledge (planes) 7, Perform (dance) 7,
Search 7, Tumble 7, Use Magical Device 6
Quick Draw (F)
Hit-and-run Tactics


5th
Fighter 2
+3
+6
+5
+3
Balance 8, Bluff 8, Concentration 4, Disable
Device 8, Disguise 8, Escape Artist 6, Hide 4,
Knowledge (planes) 8, Perform (dance) 8,
Search 8, Tumble 8, Use Magical Device 6
Combat Expertise (F)
-


6th
Chameleon 1
+3
+6
+5
+3
Balance 9, Bluff 8, Concentration 4, Disable
Device 9, Disguise 8, Escape Artist 8, Hide 4,
Knowledge (planes) 8, Perform (dance) 8,
Search 9, Tumble 9, Use Magical Device 9
Planar Touchstone:
Catalogues of Enlightenment
(PlH, 166)
Extend Spell (B)
Aptitude Focus 1/day (+2)


7th
Spelldancer 1
+3
+6
+7
+5
Balance 10, Bluff 8, Concentration 4, Disable
Device 10, Disguise 8, Escape Artist 10, Hide 4,
Knowledge (arcana) 1, Knowledge (local) 1,
Knowledge (planes) 8, Perform (dance) 8,
Search 10, Tumble 10, Use Magical Device 10
-
Spelldance


8th
Chameleon 2
+4
+6
+7
+5
Balance 11, Bluff 8, Concentration 4, Disable
Device 11, Disguise 8, Escape Artist 10, Hide 4,
Knowledge (arcana) 1, Knowledge (local) 1,
Knowledge (planes) 8, Perform (dance) 8,
Search 11, Truenaming 6, Tumble 11, Use
Magical Device 10
-
Bonus Feat (Bind Vestige, Dark Stalker,
Holy Warrior, Shape Soulmeld)


9th
Chameleon 3
+5
+7
+8
+6
Balance 12, Bluff 8, Concentration 4, Disable
Device 12, Disguise 8, Escape Artist 8, Hide 4,
Knowledge (arcana) 1, Knowledge (local) 1,
Knowledge (planes) 8, Perform (dance) 8,
Search 12, Truenaming 12, Tumble 12, Use
Magical Device 10
Persistent Spell
Mimic Class Feature 1/day
Skill Trick: Acrobatic Backstab


10th
Chameleon 4
+6
+7
+8
+6
Balance 13, Bluff 8, Concentration 4, Disable
Device 13, Disguise 8, Escape Artist 8, Hide 4,
Iaijutsu Focus 6, Knowledge (arcana) 1,
Knowledge (local) 1, Knowledge (planes) 8,
Perform (dance) 8, Search 13, Truenaming 12,
Tumble 13, Use Magical Device 10
-
Ability Boon (+2)


11th
Chameleon 5
+6
+7
+8
+6
Balance 14, Bluff 8, Concentration 4, Disable
Device 14, Disguise 8, Escape Artist 8, Hide 4,
Iaijutsu Focus 12, Knowledge (arcana) 1,
Knowledge (local) 1, Knowledge (planes) 8,
Perform (dance) 8, Search 14, Truenaming 12,
Tumble 14, Use Magical Device 10
-
Aptitude Focus 2/day (+4)


12th
Chameleon 6
+7
+8
+9
+7
Balance 15, Bluff 8, Concentration 4, Disable
Device 15, Disguise 8, Escape Artist 8, Hide 4,
Iaijutsu Focus 13, Knowledge (arcana) 1,
Knowledge (dungeoneering) 1, Knowledge
(local) 1, Knowledge (nature) 1, Knowledge
(planes) 8, Knowledge (religion) 1, Perform
(dance) 8, Search 15, Truenaming 12,
Tumble 15, Use Magical Device 10
Spring Attack
Word Given Form (Martial
Art - ToM pg. 218)
Skill Trick: Collector of Stories


13th
Chameleon 7
+8
+8
+9
+7
Balance 16, Bluff 8, Concentration 4, Disable
Device 16, Disguise 8, Escape Artist 8, Hide 4,
Iaijutsu Focus 16, Knowledge (arcana) 1,
Knowledge (dungeoneering) 1, Knowledge
(local) 1, Knowledge (nature) 1, Knowledge
(planes) 8, Knowledge (religion) 1, Perform
(dance) 8, Search 16, Truenaming 12,
Tumble 16, Use Magical Device 10
-
Double Aptitude, Ability Boon (+4)
Skill Trick: Back on your Feet


14th
Chameleon 8
+9
+8
+9
+7
Balance 17, Bluff 8, Concentration 4, Disable
Device 17, Disguise 8, Escape Artist 8, Hide 4,
Iaijutsu Focus 17, Knowledge (arcana) 1,
Knowledge (dungeoneering) 1, Knowledge
(local) 1, Knowledge (nature) 1, Knowledge
(planes) 8, Knowledge (religion) 1, Perform
(dance) 8, Search 17, Truenaming 12,
Tumble 17, Use Magical Device 15
-
Rapid Refocus


15th
Chameleon 9
+9
+9
+10
+8
Balance 18, Bluff 8, Concentration 4, Disable
Device 18, Disguise 8, Escape Artist 8, Hide 4,
Iaijutsu Focus 18, Knowledge (arcana) 1,
Knowledge (dungeoneering) 1, Knowledge
(local) 1, Knowledge (nature) 1, Knowledge
(planes) 8, Knowledge (religion) 1, Perform
(dance) 8, Search 18, Truenaming 12,
Tumble 18, Use Magical Device 18
Planar Touchstone:
Oxyrhynchus (PlH 172)
Mimic Class Feature 3/day
Skill Trick: Hidden Blade


16th
Chameleon 10
+10
+9
+10
+8
Balance 19, Bluff 8, Concentration 4, Disable
Device 19, Disguise 8, Escape Artist 8, Hide 4,
Iaijutsu Focus 19, Knowledge (arcana) 1,
Knowledge (dungeoneering) 1, Knowledge
(local) 1, Knowledge (nature) 1, Knowledge
(planes) 8, Knowledge (religion) 1, Perform
(dance) 8, Search 19, Spellcraft 4,Truenaming
12, Tumble 19, Use Magical Device 19
-
Aptitude Focus 3/day (+4), Ability Boon (+6)


17th
Factotum 2
+11
+9
+11
+8
Balance 20, Bluff 8, Concentration 4, Disable
Device 20, Disguise 8, Escape Artist 8, Hide 4,
Iaijutsu Focus 20, Knowledge (arcana) 1,
Knowledge (dungeoneering) 1, Knowledge
(local) 1, Knowledge (nature) 1, Knowledge
(planes) 8, Knowledge (religion) 1, Perform
(dance) 8, Search 20, Spellcraft 8,Truenaming
12, Tumble 20, Use Magical Device 20
-
Arcane Dilettante
Skill Trick: False Theurgy
Skill Trick: Nimble Stand


18th
Factotum 3
+12
+10
+11
+9
Balance 21, Bluff 8, Concentration 9, Disable
Device 21, Disguise 8, Escape Artist 8, Hide 4,
Iaijutsu Focus 21, Knowledge (arcana) 1,
Knowledge (dungeoneering) 1, Knowledge
(local) 1, Knowledge (nature) 1, Knowledge
(planes) 8, Knowledge (religion) 1, Perform
(dance) 8, Search 21, Spellcraft 8,Truenaming
12, Tumble 21, Use Magical Device 21
Elusive Target
Brains over Brawn, Cunning Defense
Skill Trick: Shrouded Dance


19th
Swordsage 1
+12
+10
+13
+11
Balance 22, Bluff 8, Concentration 10, Disable
Device 22, Disguise 8, Escape Artist 8, Hide 4,
Iaijutsu Focus 22, Knowledge (arcana) 2,
Knowledge (dungeoneering) 2, Knowledge
(local) 2, Knowledge (nature) 2, Knowledge
(planes) 8, Knowledge (religion) 2, Perform
(dance) 8, Search 22, Spellcraft 8,Truenaming
12, Tumble 22, Use Magical Device 22
Maneuvers:
Shadow Stride, Hand of Death,
Sapphire Nightmare Blade,
Ruby Nightmare Blade,
Counter Charge, Comet Throw
Stance: Hearing the Air
Unarmed Strike, Quick to Act +1,
Discipline Focus (weapon focus)



20th
Swordsage 2
+13
+10
+14
+12
Balance 23, Bluff 8, Concentration 10, Disable
Device 23, Disguise 8, Escape Artist 8, Hide 8,
Iaijutsu Focus 23, Knowledge (arcana) 2,
Knowledge (dungeoneering) 2, Knowledge
(local) 2, Knowledge (nature) 2, Knowledge
(planes) 8, Knowledge (religion) 2, Perform
(dance) 8, Search 23, Spellcraft 10,Truenaming
12, Tumble 23, Use Magical Device 23
Maneuvers:
Soaring Throw
Stance: Pearl of Black Doubt
AC Bonus




War Domain Affiliation (CC)
1/day ignore ACP on a skill check
1/day ignore difficult terrain for a round
1/day double normal bonus for Combat Expertise or Power Attack
Apply any feat that applies to a single weapon to all weapons of the same damage type in the same weapon class



Thanks in advance!

[Khedrac]

With Chameleon's floating feat can I grab Initiate of Mystra if my patron deity is Mystra - or any other Initiate Feat? Complete Champion's assessment of Initiate feats (pg. 27) seems to corroborate with this idea, as it states: "Initiate feats are available only to clerics (or other divine spellcaster) level as well". And the Catalogues, in their turn, gives you the ability to "cast a spell from the cleric domain [...] as though you had prepared the spell normally".
I'm not sure on the feats from touchstone locations, but the Chameleon as is does not qualify as having divine casting based on the divine aptitude focus.

You can’t use any abilities gained from your aptitude focus, ability boon, or mimic class feature abilities to qualify for a feat, prestige class, or other option.

[Anthrowhale]

I'm confused by the reference to initiate feats in Complete Champion? As far as I can tell, Complete Champion doesn't discuss Initiate feats?

Dragon Magic (I think?) discusses initiate feats, relaxing the requirements to classes which require a patron deity and use the cleric list. Chameleon fails the first test.

[Troacctid]

Higher-order touchstone abilities are always either spell-like or supernatural, neither of which qualifies you for spell level prerequisites.

[Chalhubard]

I'm not sure on the feats from touchstone locations, but the Chameleon as is does not qualify as having divine casting based on the divine aptitude focus.

Indeed, I was inquiring about the possibility of using the Planar Touchstone for such qualifications.


I'm confused by the reference to initiate feats in Complete Champion? As far as I can tell, Complete Champion doesn't discuss Initiate feats?

Dragon Magic (I think?) discusses initiate feats, relaxing the requirements to classes which require a patron deity and use the cleric list. Chameleon fails the first test.

You are absolutely right, I meant Champions of Valor. I will rectify it in the original post. Wasn't aware about that discussion in Dragon Magic, good find, thank you!


Higher-order touchstone abilities are always either spell-like or supernatural, neither of which qualifies you for spell level prerequisites.

First of all, that's a marvelous forum avatar! Back to the topic, it seems to be the case, yes, as indicated in the Planar Handbook, pg. 154. I wonder, however, if it is not "specific trumps general", as you get the ability to "cast a spell from the cleric domain [...] as though you had prepared the spell normally". It is both calling out nominally that you cast a spell and that you prepare it normally. Additionally, you cannot "prepare" a spell-like or supernatural ability - that is the root of my musings.

[Anthrowhale]

You are absolutely right, I meant Champions of Valor. I will rectify it in the original post. Wasn't aware about that discussion in Dragon Magic, good find, thank you!

I see. This is a poorly worded sentence because the text contradicts the parenthetical. My expectation is that it was meant to set an expectation that there are some exceptions given for other divine spellcasters for individual initiate feats, as appears elsewhere on that page. Since no exception is listed in the Initiate of Mystra prereqs this doesn't allow for qualification another way. (The Dragon Magic ref does.)

So, I'd say:

1. Yes, because you are specifically allowed to cast the spell. Note that gaining the higher order ability requires visiting the catalogues of enlightenment which is listed as EL 8.
2. No, Initiate of Mystra lists no other ways to qualify so the CoV text does not apply. The text in Dragon Magic would apply, but my understanding is that that isn't relevant here.
3. Divine/Arcane is undetermined, so this seems to be purely DM fiat.
4. Yes, but again note that you need to actually visit to gain the higher order ability.

[Chalhubard]

I see. This is a poorly worded sentence because the text contradicts the parenthetical. My expectation is that it was meant to set an expectation that there are some exceptions given for other divine spellcasters for individual initiate feats, as appears elsewhere on that page. Since no exception is listed in the Initiate of Mystra prereqs this doesn't allow for qualification another way. (The Dragon Magic ref does.)

So, I'd say:

1. Yes, because you are specifically allowed to cast the spell. Note that gaining the higher order ability requires visiting the catalogues of enlightenment which is listed as EL 8.
2. No, Initiate of Mystra lists no other ways to qualify so the CoV text does not apply. The text in Dragon Magic would apply, but my understanding is that that isn't relevant here.
3. Divine/Arcane is undetermined, so this seems to be purely DM fiat.
4. Yes, but again note that you need to actually visit to gain the higher order ability.

Really good points!

1. Plane-shifting for an EL 8 encounter might be not be as streamlined for organically grown characters, yeah. We're kicking off at level 10, so that should be a non-issue.
2. Yes, I'm inclined to agree with you after reading the section on Dragon Magic, in regards to Initiate Feats. Quite the shame. You can grab the spells, but not that juicy ability :smallfrown:
3. This point would be more relevant if you could actually get them Initiate Feats. But I guess it opens the discussion for other sort of feats, like Obtain Familiar, if it is ruled to be arcane - even though I believe it would be quite far fetched to slap arcane on that. You're getting domains and all, so...
4. Indeed, would be a hassle to get through the encounter sans some external buffing. Most mundanes ain't loaded on Knowledge/INT.

[Anthrowhale]

Incidentally, skill-monkey archer with some buff spells sounds like "Mystic Ranger with Sword of the Arcane Order" or "Cloistered Cleric which carefully limits spell selection" to me.

[Chalhubard]

Quite so. Most chameleon builds floating around are actually archery-centred. I wanted a different spin on this one, ideally an off-tank, even though it can go full archer with appropriate persistomancy on demand, if needed.

DPS-wise, the major boosts apart from buffs, would be Iaijutsu, Knowledge Devotion, and, potentially, Holy Warrior. If to-hit is okay, there is always power attack from heroics.