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View Full Version : Optimization Help with an Arcane Trickster going Lv. 1-20 Solo



coachcrumbles
2021-03-17, 05:56 AM
Greetings All! Starting a campaign soon and would appreciate some feedback from more experienced players on my build for optimization tempered by role-play decisions/campaign direction. I've read Magique Filou's guide and few others, so I've got a good base of knowledge, just no experience. Never been past Level 10 ever, so I'm in for a ride. Want to try and make it fairly smooth.

-Campaign-
SOLO and we are going to 20th level. DM is running a physical game with a group in the young years of a custom world/mythos. Dm is also running solo text campaigns set about 100 years before his main physical game, for the purpose of lore creation. So I get an "almost" guaranteed 1-20 game and become a major figure in the world history, maybe a VILLAIN in his main campaign. I will get some leniency, but death is still possible.

I'll be a Neutral Evil High Elf Pure Arcane Trickster, so I can still be around during his main game, age-wise.
I don't know what DM has planned, but I'll probably see a little bit of everything from City Espionage to Dungeon Diving to Pirate Island Hopping. Plenty of Combat/Exploration/Lots of RP. Pure Solo, but I might get side-kicks here and there, but I assume literally alone most of the time.

-Race-
High Elf:Dex+2,Int+1 Cantrip:Minor Illusion(for background reasons)

-Stats-
Rolled 18,14,14,13,13,12

Probably starting Str-12,Dex-18,Con-14,Int-14,Wis-13,Cha-13 (Racials-Dex+2,Int+1)

So DEX is maxed. I'd like to end up with at "LEAST" Con-16,Int-16,Wis-14 but Int-20 would be nice, but that would drastically detract from feats I can grab.(I've read that as a Rogue, I'm not feat hungry, but I am feat greedy)

This is my main problem. I'm super greedy with wanting FEATS, so figuring best combo of starting/end stats and when to get ASI/Feats is clouding my mind. Being a High Elf, campaign wise, I can probably train certain extra feats with Gold/Downtime, but I can't count on that. It would just be a nice bonus.

My end game probably wouldn't include a Headband of Intellect,due to attunement slots and possibly getting more important attuned items, so Int is a concern of what I need/can survive with in the end.

-Feats-
Definitely taking Elven Accuracy early and Resilient(Con) at some point.
I'm greedy for War Caster, Mobile, and for Role-play - Telekinesis, Telepathic(but can survive without either/or)
I want, but meh about Alert, Observant, Magic Initiate, Ritual Caster

Looking for tips on a 20th Level Villain end game set-up in this regard and when is best to feat up or grab ASI during the leveling process. Not sure what is best to boost early vs mid vs late.

-Skill Proficiency-
Acrobatics, Arcana, Deception, Insight, Perception, Sleight of Hand, Stealth

Pretty set on this, but not sure of Insight vs Investigation or maybe I overlooked a needed/useful skill.

-Tool Proficiency-
Thieves, Forgery, Disguise

Definitely Thieves. The rest are up for debate and a gaming set could be fun RP wise.

-Expertise-
Sleight of Hand, Thieves' Tools, Perception, Stealth

Seems right for me. Suggestions are welcome.

-Fighting Style-
Longbow + Rapier. 2 Backup Daggers mainly for properties such as "Of warning"

Weapons are set(rolled a scenario and stole a Longbow on my way to starting city. It's good being a Rogue), but fighting style is a little fuzzy. Never played an Arcane Trickster, but I see a lot of Run-and-Gun-Hide repeat, but I'm certainly going to be involved in Melee, being Solo campaign, so gotta do both. Any insights/tips would be great to what I might expect in typical Combat Solo

-Magic-
Not too concerned here. I'll adjust picks in later levels to what I experience, but I know about all the choices. Booming Blade, Shadowblade, Find Familiar, Sleep/Suggestion, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Misty Step, etc. I'll pick and choose as I go, but tips are welcome.

=Main Concerns=
1. What to expect and suggestions for role-play vs optimization going all the way to Level 20 SOLO and how to be a powerful historical force at 10-20.
2. ASI/Feat selection as I level. Best starting Stats to accommodate the build path.
3. Every nit-pick thing that I HAVE to choose now to end up being a badass villain/mechanically optimized Villain in the end.
4. Not planning on multi-classing,but I'd like to hear why I certainly must do so for my stated needs.

As a general overview of what I'll be planning to do/know of campaign is City Thievery/Assassination early leading to Revenge against a cult that worships Goliath Gods leading to hating/fighting against Goliath Gods to ruling/terrorizing the world or at least becoming a multi-regional force of Evil(with a slight focus on empowering the little guy to rising up and not being oppressed due to being dominated in my backstory. In comes my trickster. I'm dominating too, but by tricking the oppressed to rise up in my favor).

I know that's a wall of text, but I'd like every insight I can get, being a fairly new player to those levels with an ambitious plan that may fail horribly or end up awesome. Who knows. Yet, with your help, the chances of an epic story increase, so thank you all for your help/arguments and if you need more information, just ask. I'll reply at least once a day, every day until I start campaign. I'll promise to keep you updated on how that goes. Even if I die a horrible Level 1 death, with all the embarrassment that will entail.

Catullus64
2021-03-17, 07:58 AM
I would prioritize Mobile of all of your stated feat options, especially since you're starting with maxed out Dexterity. As a solo rogue, your path to success is going to involve picking your fights, and running away more often than not. Mobile is a big help to that. For that same reason, don't put too much stock in Resilient (Constitution). If lots of Concentration saves are coming your way, you've already failed.

Spells should also emphasize indirect solutions to conflict: spells like Booming Blade and Shadow Blade are great for party-based optimization, but for a solo experience their extra damage probably won't help much. Not when a well-placed Minor Illusion, Charm Person, Suggestion, or Phantasmal Force can help you accomplish what you want while avoiding fighting altogether. I would make sure that Minor Illusion is your racial cantrip, to give you a basic floor of trickery powers for those vulnerable levels 1-2.

As you get up in levels and hit point scaling becomes more generous, you can become a little freer with getting your own hands dirty, but before that you should rely as much as you can on bypassing battles or getting others to fight them for you.

If I were to advise multiclassing, a 2-Level dip into Wizard is a solid option. It nets you more spells per day, versatility in your spell selection, ritual casting, and (depending on your Tradition) a neat utility feature. For an Arcane Trickster, my recommendation goes to either Transmutation or Conjuration. Minor Alchemy and Minor Conjuration are just screaming for imaginative use.

I'm somewhat leery of the fact that you seem to have a pre-planned arc for this character's development and ascendency, but I suppose that will work better in a single-player campaign than anywhere else. My advice would be to pick a more specific, concrete goal than "become a powerful force." Pick a particular dangerous heist your character dreams of pulling, a noblewoman he dreams of making his own, a criminal organization he one day hopes to rule. Give his ambition narrow focus, and let it broaden to encompass other setting elements in the course of time.

I get a certain feeling when I read your text about "helping the little guy rise to power to further my schemes." I've seen this kind of thing before, where people claim to be making an evil character, but don't actually want the character they control to be unlikeable, and so tack on a bunch of well-meaning or sympathetic riders to their evil behavior. It's purportedly to add believability and nuance to the character, but often it just makes them seem inconsistent and/or delusional. Examine your own motives for the characterization, is what I'm getting at. If this guy's meant to be a villain in the end, have him be villainous.

Eldariel
2021-03-17, 08:32 AM
Don't forget that solo Rogue operates very differently from a Rogue in a party. You can use your hit'n'run ability and stealth to avoid giving enemy the chance to hit you in the first place: bonus action Hide gets a lot of value when you don't worry about allies getting targeted instead. Mobile is pretty solid, both for bonus movement speed, and awesome stuff, but you can already bonus action Disengage and use ranged weapons innately. This means that while Mobile lets you melee kite with Booming Blade...eh, is that really so valuable? I guess it means you can BB + Hide or BB + Dash, which can have some value but I think your default option should be engaging at 150' or as close to it as possible and shooting with a Longbow.

You could perhaps make do without Acrobatics proficiency. I definitely think you do want Persuasion to go with your Deception and magical persuasion (to actually become a mastermind). You can always just learn like Misty Step, which does help with the issues you'd normally use Acrobatics for. Expertises are a rough call: OTOH you really want your defense skills (Insight & Perception) to be good, especially since your stats aren't conductive to that and you don't want your subordinates (or enemies) getting away with lies or whatever. OTOH Stealth is a must and you probably want Expertise in a social skill too.

As for feats, well, EA and Res: Con put you at 15/15 so 3 ASIs sees you at 16/16. That's all well and good: they should probably be near the start of your career, Elven Accuracy in particular is high importance since you don't have multiple hits so you don't want to be missing due to getting unlucky. Past that point, you get 4 more ASIs. I definitely would consider Ritual Caster: Wizard fairly early on in your career. This would get you:
- Find Familiar: Frees up 1st level any school slot
- Unseen Servant: An extra body to drop ball bearings/oil/caltrops or do whatever. Impractical in many cases but a nice option to have available.
- Detect Magic: Obvious utility to anyone dealing with traps and magic and such
- Magic Mouth: One of the most versatile and rather powerful detection technique with a lot of advanced uses (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?539861-The-Arcane-Programmer-Guide-(-Official-Rules-Technique-))
- Augury [as per Tasha's]: It's nice to check if there are going to be complications before starting your heist
- Tiny Hut: Well, you probably want to rest safe, right?
- Phantom Steed: This is great for travelling but also gives you a 100' moving mount for combat until it gets hit; lets you rain death while enemy tries to catch you to no avail.
- Water Breathing: Ever need to adventure underneath water? This is basically the only reasonable way to.
- Divination: Need any information or a solution to a problem or the location of an artifact or the name of your assailant or whatever? This does it.
- Contact Other Plane: Far as information goes, this puts all the other options to shame. It's not even close, COP is just insane (though of course, you want as much Int as possible, and preferably the Lucky feat when you use this too). And since you have Int save proficiency, this is an option for you.
- Drawmij's Instant Summons: Need to go anywhere without e.g. weapons? For the low price of 100gp, you can have a weapon whenever you want. Of course great for all sorts of roguing (transporting forgeries, keys, stolen goods, etc. too though 100gp does add up so you only use this when it's really important; still, a strong option to have as long as you make the sapphire inconspicuous)

A lot of this is very good for a lone operative. Valuable information, safety, mobility, and options. And of course there's more (languages and such). And you get this at the same rate as Wizard! So on level 10 you already have ritual abilities of a level 10 Wizard.

Speaking of which, Lucky is pretty must no matter which way you go. It makes your Counterspell more reliable than +2 Int, it makes you more able to make your saving throws down the line, it makes you better able to land those key attacks, it's just useful. Alert is also great: while ideally you are the one doing the surprising, you'll want to make sure you have the ability to use your reactions when you get surprised. This is doubly important when you go solo: enemy getting two actions before you get anything but one reaction is likely to just be the end of you, and especially the fact that you rely on Uncanny Dodge for survivability.

I might look at something like:
4. Elven Accuracy
8. Ritual Caster
10. Lucky
12. Res: Con
16. +1/+1
19. Alert/War Caster (you aren't a tank so I'd lean towards Alert more than War Caster unless you intend on being in melee a lot)

This would put you at X/20/16/16/X/X, but with a fairly good set of abilities. The other option is to go more melee-centric, with Sentinel + War Caster and abusing the hell out of Mirror Image + Sentinel, but when you're solo I see little reason to do that. Mobile would go with that set too but mobile and sentinel are kinda redundant. If you want more movement speed, just learn Longstrider as your off-school level 1 spell. If you want a lot of movement, learn Haste as your level 3 spell (but you probably want Counterspell). Also gets you pretty decent off-turn Sneak Attack options. This isn't the highest damage option for AT (that's just BB + Sentinel + War Caster going melee and trying to trigger OA whether they attack you or try to leave), but it's the safest and when you're a solo rogue, your biggest strength isn't your ability to burst people but your ability to remain unseen and untargetable. Which is why I'd lean towards range and mobility instead.

And frankly, using Reaction for attacking is kinda meh since you already have Uncanny Dodge and probably Counterspell to that end.

coachcrumbles
2021-03-17, 08:33 AM
-To Catullus64-
Mobile is quite high on my preferred feats and would fall in line with role-playing style. I would run away from death before caring about completing a quest. I'll keep in mind the lack of need/failure of Resilient. You make a good point with that.

I'm not too concerned with Shadow Blade(except for how cool it is role-play wise), but in your opinion should I eschew Booming Blade altogether, because I WILL get into melee. I see your point with approaching a fight with more trickery, creative use of spells, so I could do away with it, but do you have a Devil's Advocate argument for keeping it in my kit or is that your final stance on it? Just for more clarity, I get your point.
Minor Illusion is definitely my Racial. I'll also keep in mind utility over damage.

I have a feeling I'm going to have to get my hands dirty early on, just because my character doesn't trust help, but using deception and other tricks, I could role-play keeping myself out of harms way. I am NE, so I am most important to me.

I'll consider Multi-Classing, but it won't come up for a bit. It's a subject I lack mechanical knowledge on. Not sure how important losing 19th AT is, but stroke of luck is nice, but I can see multi-class dipping being more useful.

I am leery too. I don't know what the DM will throw at me, but I know he'd like me to be a legend type of character(He knows me and my dnd background, so he knows what I know/can do knowledge wise, but also for his personal lore building. It's not entirely a normal game of straight DnD. It has a secondary goal and I know that coming into it all. Mainly for fun, but we don't want to stretch the reality of the game too far either. Just a play and see what happens. My character definitely has her own goals, which doesn't include regional domination of any sort. Just have to see what she gets confronted with and what may change her perceptions on the world. But meta-wise that would be the best-case scenario-historical power-wise. Playing solo does give me way more focused attention to going beyond my station as a character, especially when you add that it's half-meant for lore building specifically. Yet, I'll keep my character in mind first and what her experiences are before I just assume Lv. 1-10 that she plans on ruling. She just doesn't want much to begin with, in all honesty. She's just angry at her world.

Thank you for your input and any future input. I'll keep all you said in mind.

Edit: I missed your last paragraph somehow. I blame vodka.
I most certainly do want to be unlikable and my scheming to rise lower class up, in my mind, would be more of a "no one at large knows it's me" type of scheme. Just instigating things to make it hard for her perceived oppressors if it comes to regional scheming. She hates oppressors in general due to backstory, but she doesn't care at all what a commoner might think of her, nor would she pretend to be a good guy. If she sees a guard beat up a commoner, she may stop the guard if it suits her agenda( She needed info about a noble/prisoner anyway), but she's not going to give the commoner a loaf of bread for being beat up and send him on his way, she's going to take his money and tell him to be thankful that she didn't kill him herself. She's out for herself, no one else.

I can see how she's a hypocrite, and to be honest that probably doesn't concern her.I do want to tailor reasons more to make sense, but only to HER MIND. She had a rough childhood. Leans more toward Chaotic than Lawful. Still in the process of fleshing her out, but that's the idea. Seeing as how you commented on it and you've seen that cliche a lot, what tips do you have about not falling into that trap, even if accidental? I really want to be evil and seen as evil. No where near a friendly face to pretty much anyone, but maybe a select few sidekicks or what have you. Trust with her is trench warfare type of thing.

coachcrumbles
2021-03-17, 09:13 AM
-To Eldariel-
I've never played a solo game, let alone for Rogue, so yes, I HAVE to keep that in mind. As Catullus64 implied, I could take Mobile and focus more on range/run and get rid of booming blade altogether. Only problem there is forced Melee, but I would have other ways of dealing with that. She also does lean toward Range,for safety/not being seen, so it would fit for her role-play reasons. Comes down to how much me as a player wants to commit with a certain fighting style. Range is more Characters style, but her first backstory kill was a particularly brutal dagger to neck scenario which she...enjoyed. I feel I'm overthinking it all a bit, but it's fun to do so. Your default is pretty on par and I get the feeling I should build her fighting style around it.

I'm an old Morrowind player, so the word Acrobatics is dear to me. I do like being Martial first and supplementing with spells with my Rogues in general. It does lose a little value if I take Mobile with terrains at least. Persuasion would be nice. I would still be acrobatic due to Dex, so it would work out. Persuasion was top of list that got cut, due to acrobatics kinda being set in my mind from video games, but as far as DnD goes, you make me realize I may not need to be proficient with it and it's worth considering trading out.
I'll keep your thoughts on Expertise in mind. That's a tough decision. I only get four and Sleight of Hand is going to help with a lot of Mage Hand shenanigans. Thieves Tools is always useful. Stealth is the General Rogue Idea and Perception is universally useful. A Social Skill is highly desired, but changing out one of those four is a conundrum to me.

EA would put me at 16 due to my INT+1 Racial. Elven Accuracy is definitely my first feat, due to Solo and wanting to always hit. Plus, she's meant to be particularly talented and with Elf cliche senses.It works role-play wise. Ritual Caster is higher on my list than I wrote it out, because it would give me a way to become way more versatile in the world at large. Those spells it brings would be a huge boost with some of things I would IMAGINE becoming a villain of some renown would role-play make more sense as to why she became whatever she does due to her versatility. So 100% agreed theory wise, but still in a state of putting the last pieces of the puzzle together character wise. It's a top option and makes so much sense. Telekinetic and Telepathy are COOL, but not set in stone and ritual casting could replace those easily.

I have a slight problem with Lucky. They seem like 3 free inspiration points to me(correct me if I'm wrong) but I want the DM to award me for inspiration, not have a feat just be that way. Seems too cheap. I'm not against fly-by'n with my Owl, but I wouldn't use it 100% of turns, because it can seem too cheesy since in the end I am playing a game. Otherwise Lucky would be a top FEAT I'd want. Maybe I'm thinking about it wrong, but just seems too cheesy. I like rolling with consequences, but then again I'm taking Elven Accuracy which super advantage, but I can frame that because I'm an elf. I just have skewered view of the feat due to it's basically 3 at will Inspiration points that is a mechanic of the game.

I like that general outline, considering I might personally replace Lucky with something, but it's assuming not getting INT to 20. With magical ambush, any save spells are more effective, but a question is what is a good end-game INT score. More specific since I probably won't end up maxing INT is the argument of 14/16 Int.

Your ending argument is great and very informative for me to think around. Not much to comment on, because it's pretty on point in my mind.

Thank you very much for you input.

Keravath
2021-03-17, 09:30 AM
Hi!

Your rolled stats include an 18 so you will start with 20 dex.

I'd suggest starting with 13 con so you can take resilient con. By level 20 you will have proficiency in dex, con and wis saves which is useful.

What are your reasons for the warcaster feat? The most common reason is having your hands full with a sword and shield so you will be able to cast spells without a free hand. However, a rogue doesn't have proficiency with shields so the only other features are advantage on concentration saves and the ability to use a cantrip on an op attack. However, if you are running solo, the number of op attacks is likely to be relatively small.

The mobile feat is a really good idea. It increases your base speed and lets you make an attack and withdraw without needing to use your cunning action to disengage.

A high int will be useful if you want to use spells offensively - particularly in the context of the magical ambush feature you get at level 9 which imposes disadvantage on saving throws against your spells for creatures from whom you are hidden.

In terms of expertise, they seem like decent choices though investigation and/or arcana can also be good skills for expertise. Arcana is important for magical traps, while investigation is just as important as perception in finding and understanding traps.

Elven accuracy is good though I am not sure which stat you will apply it to. In either case, it can be combined with either bonus action hide or the steady aim feature from Tasha's to roll three dice for attacks.

Another possible feat of interest might be Observant since it bumps your passive perception and investigation but check on how the DM uses it. However, it should mean that it becomes very difficult for creatures to hide from you. Only another rogue with expertise in stealth is likely to succeed especially when the character is level 20.

A pure rogue has 6 ASIs 4,8,10,12,16,19 - which when starting with a dex of 20 will give you a lot of decent choices.

- mobile
- resilient con
- elven accuracy
- 3 x int (if you want 20 int - not mandatory for an AT usually but it will bump your spell DC).

Instead of 3 x int, you could go with any number of other options since 14 int is likely to be adequate.

- obsevant
- lucky
- telekinesis
- fey touched
- alert
- tough
- con ASI

etc

Chad.e.clark
2021-03-17, 09:33 AM
Something to ask your DM about: do NPC's and enemies follow the same creation rules as PC's? You may not need to stress about how to build the PC to be a villain in the next campaign if the DM is just going to do whatever he wants when the PC turns into an NPC. Just a thought.

coachcrumbles
2021-03-17, 09:57 AM
-To Keravath-
Hello!

Yeah, Attributes were a problem with maybe starting certain things in 13 or 14 and increasing by feats/asi's. One of my main problems, so I see your point. Being ranged focus too, I can *probably* get away with endgame 14 Con, so it frees up some of those asi/feats.

Warcaster would be a super late game thing, mainly because of Opportunity Attack reaction with Booming Blade. I'm now leaning toward more Ranged options, so might be discarded. The Somatic was a reason too, but not the main one. It would of been more of a hands full with a Longbow, but wasn't sure mechanic was about a single handed weapon and somatic, so wasn't sure if it helped me/didn't matter in that regard rule wise. Plus adv on concentration is pretty good, but I've been directed to worry about those and focus more on utility, so is a feat that is quite likely to be cut or thought about need-wise, because it would have been a late feat.

Mobile is almost a sure pick at this point. Just sounds fun and has good use with Range and running. Two things I want to do. 100% agreed.

Higher the Int the better. But I'm kinda settled on 14/16. Leaning 16, which do you propose is more important for Ranged running'n'gunning?

Expertise wise, I agree. It's just I get 4, but I want 6. I just have to decided on a focus and play it. Probably hardest choice of all. I see a common theme of no one disputing Thieves Tools and I know why, but any opinions on NOT taking it? I will, but more info might persuade me, given my campaign.

EA is applied to Int, but per the rules "Whenever you have advantage on an attack roll using Dexterity, Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma, you can re-roll one of the dice once." To me that sounds like any and all, not just the stat you improve. Correct me if I'm wrong. Yes, steady aim is allowed and will be quite useful. Super advantage, I think they call it.

I thought about Observant, but it's just on passive and from my experience, we actively roll just about everything, so might not be that useful overall considering it's a feat I have to take. It's on my list, but low because of that reason/knowing the DM and it 98% not in the running now.

That 20 Dex is one of the reasons I'm having so much trouble. I'm thankful, but now I have a hard time determining asi/feats, but that's a good problem to have. I asked earlier, but you say 14 is "acceptable". Going to level 20, in your opinion, would you bump it to 16 or take more possible feats? ( I'm 80% going to 16, but more info is more info.)

Thank you very much for your opinions on my build. I appreciate it.


-To Chad.e.clark-
Really good question. That's one of the points I'm overthinking all this is because in the end, my character may face the main party at some point, but the way I build her, not as an NPC version of her. I can never join the physical party and voice chatting is meh, so I want to finish at a point and let her become legend to come back as a Boss fight and presumably die. I'm 100% okay with whatever outcome happens, given I came into it with a lenient 1-20 character and I like the idea of being defeated/killed/recruited(they are evil minded too) in the end. Or I might join them and get some say in it all. Hasn't happened and is not set in stone, just a overarching hope to occur. I might die long before hand and they just hear about my antics.

Another point is, these main players are some of my old High School buddies. They don't know I'm making a historical figure for their campaign, so after all is said and done, the hope is she was memorable as an antagonist/ally just for laughs.

To be clear, you said next campaign. They are already Lv. 7 from Lv. 1, so it's an extension to their campaign for fun. They meet once a week. DM and I can catch up and finish text-based long before they do. We know our limits.

So they would be coming after me, to a stronghold/region/area I choose, where I have defenses set up, minions, and hopefully a battlefield I setup myself. Ambitious idea, but the hope is it works out, not that we fail. Like I said I can still die. It's not a "given" that I make it. My DM isn't that nice. He's pretty rule oriented, to be honest, but has expressed a bit of leniency to get to both our goals. Now if I drop from the ceiling into a room of 10 enemies at Lv. 1 and try to be a badass plot armored anime character, I'm going to die in that room. Just for some clarity.

Keravath
2021-03-17, 10:25 AM
You may want to consider whether a multiclassed character could fulfill the end game villain goal better than a single class. Rogues are a bit of a glass cannon with a good single target attack but a level 20 rogue against a party is not going to fare that well unless they are smart, have setup the battlefield, and have allies/minions.

You might also consider what high level magic items will go well with this character.

coachcrumbles
2021-03-17, 10:50 AM
-To Keravath-
Right above, in response to Chad.e.clark I mentioned, yes I would have the room to set up in advance against a PC party if it comes to that.

My main two attunement items, if I can get them, are the Cloak of Invisibility and Amulet of Proof against Detection/Scrying(name?). You got the typical Belt of Giant, Attunement Weapons, but haven't delved into it deeply particularly with 5e items. You are correct, I should research it further and look for them in my game.

I also stated I'm not very aware/good with multi-class mechanics, so I tend to go pure classes, but I assume generally with this type of end game goal, multi-class would be more useful, but the specifics would require some research, so for now sticking with pure. I'll keep it in mind and learn what would be best before end-game since the challenge has presented itself.

Against my friends who are playing main party......I have a passing feeling from experience I am more creative/mechanically inclined, so "outsmarting" may be a thing. I feel losing/ or winning and guiding/subjugating is better lore wise, but that's personal,no DM input there. Just have to see what happens.

Eldariel
2021-03-17, 12:19 PM
-To Eldariel-
I've never played a solo game, let alone for Rogue, so yes, I HAVE to keep that in mind. As Catullus64 implied, I could take Mobile and focus more on range/run and get rid of booming blade altogether. Only problem there is forced Melee, but I would have other ways of dealing with that. She also does lean toward Range,for safety/not being seen, so it would fit for her role-play reasons. Comes down to how much me as a player wants to commit with a certain fighting style. Range is more Characters style, but her first backstory kill was a particularly brutal dagger to neck scenario which she...enjoyed. I feel I'm overthinking it all a bit, but it's fun to do so. Your default is pretty on par and I get the feeling I should build her fighting style around it.

Definitely no Mobile then. You already have Disengage as bonus action to do the important part without burning a feat on it. It's simply not worth enough to spend a feat on. Want speed? Get Longstrider and Haste. Combined with Cunning Action, that's 320' per round as desired. You are already plenty mobile. But you really don't need that: it's already in your kit well enough. Pick new stuff and massive improvements for feats, not stuff you can already do.


I'm an old Morrowind player, so the word Acrobatics is dear to me. I do like being Martial first and supplementing with spells with my Rogues in general. It does lose a little value if I take Mobile with terrains at least. Persuasion would be nice. I would still be acrobatic due to Dex, so it would work out. Persuasion was top of list that got cut, due to acrobatics kinda being set in my mind from video games, but as far as DnD goes, you make me realize I may not need to be proficient with it and it's worth considering trading out.
I'll keep your thoughts on Expertise in mind. That's a tough decision. I only get four and Sleight of Hand is going to help with a lot of Mage Hand shenanigans. Thieves Tools is always useful. Stealth is the General Rogue Idea and Perception is universally useful. A Social Skill is highly desired, but changing out one of those four is a conundrum to me.

With Prof, 20 Dex and Reliable Talent, your Sleight of Hand should be plenty good already. You rarely need to get 30+ on it. Most important are opposed checks like Social vs. Insight, Stealth vs. Perception, etc.


EA would put me at 16 due to my INT+1 Racial. Elven Accuracy is definitely my first feat, due to Solo and wanting to always hit. Plus, she's meant to be particularly talented and with Elf cliche senses.It works role-play wise. Ritual Caster is higher on my list than I wrote it out, because it would give me a way to become way more versatile in the world at large. Those spells it brings would be a huge boost with some of things I would IMAGINE becoming a villain of some renown would role-play make more sense as to why she became whatever she does due to her versatility. So 100% agreed theory wise, but still in a state of putting the last pieces of the puzzle together character wise. It's a top option and makes so much sense. Telekinetic and Telepathy are COOL, but not set in stone and ritual casting could replace those easily.

Telekinetic seems like a colossal waste of feat on a character with invisible Mage Hand at will, and whose bonus actions are pretty much always taken. Telepathic is okay but you can already telepathically communicate with your familiar, so it's slightly redundant. Observant seems way more useful (though you should definitely work Investigation into your proficiencies then).


I have a slight problem with Lucky. They seem like 3 free inspiration points to me(correct me if I'm wrong) but I want the DM to award me for inspiration, not have a feat just be that way. Seems too cheap. I'm not against fly-by'n with my Owl, but I wouldn't use it 100% of turns, because it can seem too cheesy since in the end I am playing a game. Otherwise Lucky would be a top FEAT I'd want. Maybe I'm thinking about it wrong, but just seems too cheesy. I like rolling with consequences, but then again I'm taking Elven Accuracy which super advantage, but I can frame that because I'm an elf. I just have skewered view of the feat due to it's basically 3 at will Inspiration points that is a mechanic of the game.

Lucky isn't Inspiration. Inspiration is a source of advantage (if you have Inspiration, you can take Advantage on a single check/save/roll. Meanwhile Lucky is a reroll: if you see a particularly poor roll when it's important (like on key Initiative when you're solo, or on a big saving throw) or a strong enemy attack roll (crit), you can get lucky (instead of rolling poorly, you rolled well). Inspiration is more similar to e.g. Hiding. Lucky meanwhile is a way to make it more likely you don't fail that key save vs. petrification, or waste that Counterspell. You're solo. You don't have anyone to bail you out if you roll poorly, someone crits you or whatever. Lucky alleviates poor rolls, which are the primary reason you die solo (remember, solo is very unforgiving). I think you definitely want it while soloing. Plus it goes perfectly with being a Rogue; Rogues are "fortune's friends" anyways and this is just being lucky when normal jockey would've been unlucky. Remember, it doesn't remove consequences. You can roll poorly on the second roll. You can also reroll advantageous or disadvantageous rolls.


I like that general outline, considering I might personally replace Lucky with something, but it's assuming not getting INT to 20. With magical ambush, any save spells are more effective, but a question is what is a good end-game INT score. More specific since I probably won't end up maxing INT is the argument of 14/16 Int.

Your usual advantage at range can come from hiding. Or Greater Invisibility. Or Darkness + Devil's Sight (Eldritch Adept) or Darkness/Fog Cloud + Blind-Fighting (Fighting Initiate) or whatever. So owl is a complement, but not a necessity. Plus it can also give you Sneak Attack by just being next to enemy (i.e. without Flyby helping, which gives Advantage additionally but if you wanna avoid overusing it, you can occasionally have it just be nearby).

Mhm. With the +1 Int from race, it's actually pretty easy to get that 20 Int. Lucky/Ritual Caster/Elven Accuracy/+1 Int & +1 Con/Observant/Res: Con or e.g. +2 Int over Res: Con and then like Telepathic as the last feat. This would leave you without Con-save proficiency which can suck, but you do have Lucky for when you end up targeted by a spell/Con breath/gaze attack/whatever.


EDIT: Oh yeah, and if you wanna multiclass, Arcane Trickster 9/Bladesinger 11 or Arcane Trickster 11/Bladesinger 9 is definitely the way I'd go. More magical muscle, great synergy with your abilities, Extra Attack with Booming Blade (or at range), etc. 11 gives you Reliable Talent, which is the last relevant level of the Rogue class (Versatile Trickster is generally a waste of your action, Blindsense doesn't actually give you vision and you already have plentiful Perception, etc.). This would give you 5th level spells as a Wizard proper while having slots of a level 12 Wizard (level 6 slot is nice for permanent Major Image among other things), improved fighting ability, etc.

Keravath
2021-03-17, 02:16 PM
If you want to have a greater impact against a party and more tools available then I'd agree with the AT/bladesinger combinations though you might also want to have an archmage or two in your employment for dealing with pesky PCs.

Other decent multiclass options could be rogue/fighter or rogue/warlock. If you have the extra attack feature and you want to focus on ranged attacks then Sharpshooter can be worthwhile for the additional range and the ability to avoid cover penalties on to hit. You can effectively snipe the party from 600' given the right setup.

Also, the blindfighting (fighter initiate feat) + fog cloud suggestion is a good way to force disadvantage on melee attackers while having advantage yourself. However, keep in mind that ranged attackers more than 10' away from you will have straight rolls since neither of you can see the other. The other approach to this is darkness+devils sight.

Another tactic to keep in mind is using the shadow blade spell - when upcast this can do a lot of melee damage ... and it automatically has advantage in dim light or darkness ... for cases where you are forced into melee.

Finally, I still like the mobile feat for this character since I think it builds on features you already have. Yes, you can use cunning action to disengage and run away but you only have 30' of movement. On the other hand, make an attack against an adjacent target, and as long as you aren't in a crowd you can then use cunning action to dash and move 80' away. Even if you are forced by the circumstances to disengage you still move 40' which, in a lot of cases, will force other creatures to dash to stay within 5' of you. Anyway, there are a lot of fun feats to choose so it is mostly a matter of picking what you like.

One thing to keep in mind with the AT/bladesinger builds - you will have fewer feats AND you will want a high int for those combinations which will put a lot more pressure on the feats you choose.

Gignere
2021-03-17, 02:28 PM
For a solo game Alert is probably more powerful than in a group game. Losing initiative can mean the full group of enemies can and will go before you, so minimizing that risk and going first will be crucial in a solo game.

Eldariel
2021-03-17, 02:31 PM
Also, the blindfighting (fighter initiate feat) + fog cloud suggestion is a good way to force disadvantage on melee attackers while having advantage yourself. However, keep in mind that ranged attackers more than 10' away from you will have straight rolls since neither of you can see the other. The other approach to this is darkness+devils sight.

Either way you go, Alert remedies the issue with ranged attackers. And you probably want it anyways: it's a great feat. Going Bladesinger would free up Ritual Caster feat (since you pick all the important ones via Wizardry anyways).

Bobthewizard
2021-03-17, 07:43 PM
I think that if you are playing a solo campaign, none of your stats matter. Initiative, to hit, damage, AC, and HP are irrelevant. The DM is going to adjust the difficulty of the campaign to keep it interesting for whatever you make.

I would take all feats and no ASIs and get feats that are more fun and let you do more things. I'd take things like fey touched, shadow touched, ritual caster, magic initiate, aberrant dragonmark, or eldritch adept for misty visions or mask of many faces.

I'd probably start with mask of many faces and the friends cantrip at level 4. You could have a lot of fun pretending to be anyone, and since you are solo it won't annoy your party. Plus it makes for a great villain in the main campaign.

Now, for a solo campaign, I'd probably make an Eladrin hexblade2/bardX instead of a high-elf rogue, relying less on weapon damage and more on spells. But that seems beyond the scope of this thread.

SupahCabre
2021-03-17, 08:47 PM
Villians tend to have sidekicks, mooks, bodyguards, even friends, despite being evil. It's not unusual or unreasonable. Deathstroke has a ride-or-die friend in his back pocket he can call up at any time, and Lex Luthor in particular has made good friends with many villians. You'd need to be really obnoxious to have no allies as a villian, for example Doctor Doom surrounds himself with robots that look like himself because he has no friends and pisses off everyone he meets.

Edit: And I'd avoid the confusion of multiclassing. Single class rogue is more than perfectly fine by itself

coachcrumbles
2021-03-18, 05:44 AM
Apologies for the quick and shallow remarks. On a time-constraint to get to work this morning. Thanks for options and thoughts though!

-To Eldariel-
You are right about how mobile a Rogue is to begin with. I'll have to consider that math and the effects of lethargy coming off Haste.

About Expertise, I've gotten good advice to consider considering my starting out maxed Dex. Comes down to being super good at things vs shoring up my Wisdom/Social skills. As far as Sleight of Hand goes, you are right. I need to keep those numbers in mind since I'll naturally just be good at it from the get go and that expertise could help a lot in a social skill.

Feat wise, Telekinetic and Telepathic were more RP/Mess with NPCs for fun...so not very optimized for me. I knew they were a lackluster idea. I just wanted someone to tell me outright to convince myself to pick something actually useful.

Observant is nice, but knowing my DM and how much I actively use perception/investigation, I might not get as much out of it as I should. Still considering though.

Inspiration vs Lucky. Wow, not sure how I missed the distinction. Thank you for pointing that out, really helps me out. They aren't night/day, but they are definitely not the same mechanic and that evens out my dislike of the cheesiness of taking Lucky. Role-play wise, spot on.

Int-wise, that is a good build path. I should review spell picks more, since I could take less save/dmg roll spells for utility one and I could get by with a lower Int in the end. Would give me more breathing room asi/feat wise. Lucky vs Resilient is a good point to consider, but having a con save would be much safer.

Multi-class wise, I looked over the possibility of that build and you make a good point with what I lose vs what I gain. I feel I should keep it simple and stay pure class, but now I have to really think that decision over. My main question is when to take which class levels? All rogue,then all wizard or mix as I go and how that affects me later since my class abilities will be put off. That is the thing that makes multi-class an amateur DnD over-thinker's nightmare, haha. Thanks for the detailed pros/cons. It was good insight to read.
Your suggestions for other good multi-class combos are a welcome option to ponder on, too.

Thanks for your detailed analysis!

-To Keravath-
Agreed about loosely considering a multi-class build. In the end, I'm sure I'll have some sort of follow/henchmen set-up. I like your combat synergies and since Eldariel got me to consider multi-class, I will look into those as well. I appreciate the specific examples, so thanks for that.

I love mobile and really want it, but since I'm already very mobile naturally plus the possibility spell help, I have to consider the other options. Not taking Mobile will definitely eat at me though, so I need to ponder on it.

Thank you for insights!

-To Gignere-
Yeah, I really want Alert, but asi/feats are such a tight resource. Being first in initiative is really important, but being solo with a lenient DM, I may have way more time to stealth and surprise quite often, but even then, I will get surprised or hunted down myself and Alert could save my life. Easy call,but tough decision. Thanks!

-To Bobthewizard-
You are right that it will be adjusted to me, but I have the possibility of "eventually" facing other pc's, so my build will matter a lot then. I also find it fun to make characters and over-think them. I can get by with what I already have, but I enjoy the conversation and different insights. I'm down with no asi, all feats, haha.

Which leads to your insights about feats. I consider the fey/shadowtouched, ritual/MI, but the last two I didn't look at hard and I enjoyed learning about them further. You give a good build idea, but I didn't imagine my character being much of a disguise artist,but disguise self at will is a nice benefit. I'll keep it in mind even though I'm super feat hungry.

It is beyond the scope, but was fun to look at that build. This campaign I'm set on a Rogue of some sort. Thanks for your insights.

-To SupahCabre-
You are right, but her personality is quite off-putting, but even that inspires loyalty/fear. Subjugating/paying is always an option. I feel I can get followers/employees at some point, but I see her as a lone-wolf type, so may have to find a Dr. Doom style outlook on friends.

I agree about avoiding multi-classing, but Eldariel gave a me a really good example to consider the possibilities. I'm leaning pure, but still going to do some more research before I concrete dismiss the idea.

Thank you!

Eldariel
2021-03-18, 06:31 AM
Apologies for the quick and shallow remarks. On a time-constraint to get to work this morning. Thanks for options and thoughts though!

-To Eldariel-
You are right about how mobile a Rogue is to begin with. I'll have to consider that math and the effects of lethargy coming off Haste.

About Expertise, I've gotten good advice to consider considering my starting out maxed Dex. Comes down to being super good at things vs shoring up my Wisdom/Social skills. As far as Sleight of Hand goes, you are right. I need to keep those numbers in mind since I'll naturally just be good at it from the get go and that expertise could help a lot in a social skill.

Feat wise, Telekinetic and Telepathic were more RP/Mess with NPCs for fun...so not very optimized for me. I knew they were a lackluster idea. I just wanted someone to tell me outright to convince myself to pick something actually useful.

Observant is nice, but knowing my DM and how much I actively use perception/investigation, I might not get as much out of it as I should. Still considering though.

Inspiration vs Lucky. Wow, not sure how I missed the distinction. Thank you for pointing that out, really helps me out. They aren't night/day, but they are definitely not the same mechanic and that evens out my dislike of the cheesiness of taking Lucky. Role-play wise, spot on.

Int-wise, that is a good build path. I should review spell picks more, since I could take less save/dmg roll spells for utility one and I could get by with a lower Int in the end. Would give me more breathing room asi/feat wise. Lucky vs Resilient is a good point to consider, but having a con save would be much safer.

Lucky and Res both are nice; they also complement one another quite well. I definitely do recommend putting something in Int; your big class defining feature is Magical Ambush, which specifically relies on save-or-X effects. And your list natively has some good ones: Hold Person, Hypnotic Pattern, Fear, Phantasmal Force, Hideous Laughter, etc. Basically, you hide, cast a debilitating spell and then you can just waltz in and kill someone in the eye. You can complement this with Web as your off-school level 2 spell to target an additional save though Misty Step is probably preferable. And level 4 again has Watery Sphere (but also like Polymorph and company in your core competence). All of these are the kinds of spells that can even the odds (if you're 1vMany, you definitely want to even up the actions if you need to engage) and some, such as Hold Person, are the kinds of things that allow you to plain annihilate someone (Hold Person gives you automatic critical hits in melee, which means your Booming Blade + Sneak Attack does rather stupid amounts of damage).


Multi-class wise, I looked over the possibility of that build and you make a good point with what I lose vs what I gain. I feel I should keep it simple and stay pure class, but now I have to really think that decision over. My main question is when to take which class levels? All rogue,then all wizard or mix as I go and how that affects me later since my class abilities will be put off. That is the thing that makes multi-class an amateur DnD over-thinker's nightmare, haha. Thanks for the detailed pros/cons. It was good insight to read.
Your suggestions for other good multi-class combos are a welcome option to ponder on, too.

Well, if you're going caster and Arcane Trickster, Magical Ambush is the big thing you want. It's simply marvellous on a caster chassis. The choice between AT 9/Wizard X and AT 11/Wizard X is simply the choice between Reliable Talent and ASI or 6th level spells (Wizard 6th level spells are pretty game defining: you get Contingency as a get-out-of-jail-for-free card, Magic Jar for actually just stealing bodies [and their abilities], and your choice of solid combat spells). AT 11 is more Roguey while AT 9 is more Castery. Both are pretty darn good, but you better be getting stuff outta your skills at AT 11, since that's a big investment to make and Reliable Talent is what you get for it.

One thing worth noting is that Rogue is basically the only class that can use the Haste Action from Haste for full contribution. This is because unlike with every other class, Rogue can deliver their full (core) damage with a single attack. This frees up your main Action to do things like cast spells (though mind, of course at this point you're Concentrating on Haste so it has to be a non-Concentration spell), Dodge or ready an action (to e.g. attack for off-turn damage). So it's probably a spell worth knowing.

Multiclassing loses you a feat but then you don't need to take Ritual Caster so it comes out net neutral.

coachcrumbles
2021-03-19, 11:24 AM
-To Eldariel-
Kill someone in the eye made me chuckle. I'm fuzzy on actually playing and decision-making in a fight at higher levels,specifically solo, so that's a good overview for the argument of bolstering my Int(which I would prefer 18/20). I do need to make use of my avenues for Controller, so those example really gave me something to think about. I'm also feeling, as a rogue, I may focus range early, but for fun and having more Hit Die I need to get into melee, but when it suits me type of play-style. Seems right.

Magical ambush is a done deal. I'm 100% getting it. Reliable Talent would be good since I will heavily use skills, but Bladesinger 11 is hard to pass on. I will have good Stats and possibly Lucky so Reliable Talent might be cut. You make a good 9 vs 11 argument. Especially since I'll be striving for 20 and more caster will probably help me be more self-reliant, which is what I want.

Good point on Haste.

-To Everyone-
DM told me I would be able to train certain feats as depending on gold/time/finding a trainer and that it makes sense that it's a feat that could be reasonably trained. Dm also mentioned Mythical Levels(Homebrew) or possibility of Epic Boons from DMG if we happen to get to that point, so that helps ease my feat greed.

After all these insights I have a 95% set starting build and possible path. A lot of choices can be tailored to how I feel after playing, such as multi-classing/spell slots/fighting style/etc. I thank you all for your input on the matter. I feel I got most of the information I wanted and/or insights to make better sense of my decisions.

Eldariel
2021-03-19, 12:33 PM
One thing that occurs to me still is leveling order. Unlike most classes, Rogue doesn't get a level 5 power spike so it might be more lucrative to start like Rogue 2 (because Cunning Action is great), then go Bladesinger 6 (for the great 3rd level spells and Extra Attack with BB rider if desired) and then head back to Rogue.

It will space your ASIs out somewhat differently (6, 10, 14, 17) assuming you go Rogue 2/Wizard 6/Rogue +7/Wizard +5 but it's fine overall. This would give you 6th level Wizard spells as a capstone (the alternative is Magical Ambush), both of which are fair but given how you've described the character, this looks largely preferable.

One option is also relying on getting Con saves from Bladesong or Magic Jar and going EA > Lucky > +4 Int. Kinda "boring", but given Res: Con doesn't put you at any even Con score, it might be preferable (and gets you full 20 Int in your career). Makes your Bladesong full power (you are pretty crazy bladesinger at 21 AC on level 6 if you go this route, btw) and your spells as well. Ultimately, Lucky + Bladesong should tend to most your Concentration needs.

You could also start Wizard over Rogue for Wis saves over Dex saves, since Rogue gives you Evasion and you have +5 Dex anyways so you'll be largely fine on that front regardless. Wizard 1/Rogue 2/Wizard +5 would be similar but with that, probably preferable switch.

EDIT: Except multiclassing into Rogue loses you one skill. Nevermind, start Rogue.

coachcrumbles
2021-03-20, 10:37 AM
-To Eldariel-
Might be optimized that way, but I gotta get to Arcane Trickster first. She's a rogue first and foremost who already has some innate magic(High Elf) and wants to utilize more for her roguey ways, so it just makes sense. Plus since bladesong is an elven technique and she was ripped from her heritage at a young age by a cult, than it'll take her some levels and story building to get to a story reason for learning it.
Not quite optimized, but I want it to make sense Role-play wise. She is definitely starting out rogue. Whole character is built around it.
That still helps though with how I can inter sparse levels during game though.

CTurbo
2021-03-22, 10:20 PM
Solo campaign?

I'd definitely want Alert, Lucky, and Ritual Caster(Wiz).

Alert is possibly the most important in a solo campaign. It's not even about the initiative. Being surprised in a solo campaign can mean death. Alert solves that.

Lucky is probably the next most important. Failing a save or suck in a solo campaign can mean death. Lucky gives you that legendary resistance feel.

I'd place Ritual Caster next. I won't name them all but nearly every single Wizard ritual would be immensely helpful in a solo campaign. Find Familiar is an absolute must have one way or another. Having a familiar doubles your action economy which cannot be understated. Also provides a lookout while you sleep until you can get Tiny Hut.

Res(Con) would be nice to have. Failing Con saves are usually a pretty bad thing and this helps with that.

Mobile is a very nice thing to have. I wouldn't consider it mandatory, but definitely nice to have.

Magic Initiate is another excellent choice. I'd choose Cleric and take Mending, Guidance, and Bless probably although being able to cast Cure Wounds once each day in a pinch would be pretty nice in a solo campaign.

I know you said you wanted Elven Accuracy and it's a solid feat. I just know if I was going to run in a solo campaign, I'd focus on defense and utility.

coachcrumbles
2021-03-24, 07:25 AM
-To CTurbo-
You make all really good points specifically with leaning toward defense and utility. At the beginning I was thinking too much of being good at EVERYTHING, but of course was forced to face priorities/reality. I've got a good set-up for me that makes sense with the character and is slightly optimized. Pretty sure we're going to begin in next couple days.

I have time to think about my build path though, so I'll keep the def/utility you suggest in mind. Thank you!

CTurbo
2021-03-24, 04:15 PM
I figured in a solo campaign, the DM would tailor combat around your offensive capabilities. If you were an offensive powerhouse, the difficulty would just be ramped up to match basically negating the boost.

Coretex
2021-03-24, 05:01 PM
I would suggest 3 levels in Gloom Stalker Ranger and the Skulker feat.

It depends on how you want to interact with the world, but for a mover and shaker no-one ever sees: This is the bomb.

I've never wanted to play a solo campaign more than when I was running an that combo

Bobthewizard
2021-03-24, 06:07 PM
-To Bobthewizard-
You are right that it will be adjusted to me, but I have the possibility of "eventually" facing other pc's, so my build will matter a lot then. I also find it fun to make characters and over-think them. I can get by with what I already have, but I enjoy the conversation and different insights. I'm down with no asi, all feats, haha.

I'd still skip the ASI and just take feats. ASI normally are great for PCs in a campaign because you use your to hit bonus, save DC and AC so much. As a villain facing the other PCs, having something more interesting to do will be much more important than a 5% increase in your to hit or spell save DC. You'll only get 4-5 rounds in the fight so make it interesting.

Sorinth
2021-03-25, 02:35 PM
I'd place the 18 in Int and use Elven Accuracy at lvl 4 to bring it to 20. You would still start with a 16 Dex which is fine early on. Especially since tactics wise whenever you attack it will probably at advantage so maxing Dex is less important.

For tactics obviously try to ambush whenever possible and once you get magic use it to create places to hide. For example Fog Cloud/Darkness that you hide in and pop out just to attack at advantage. Once you get Magical Ambush you can switch to more on save or suck spells which is where your 20 Int will really help shine.


For a solo campaign I'd also put the other 14 in Cha and even take expertise in one of the face skills. Talking your way past encounters is going to be important. This also fits your theme of provoking insurrections as you want to convince/trick people into doing what you want.

And speaking of expertise check with the DM about taking 20 for picking locks. It's often overlooked and can negate the need to use one of your expertise selections on thieves' tools.

coachcrumbles
2021-03-25, 11:54 PM
-To CTurbo-
Yes, I think you are 100% on that and to be honest, I didn't consider it. Makes sense with knowing DM and general idea of solo. Really good point. Thank you for that!

-To Coretex-
While I really like your idea, I've already got a decent set story for the character and I don't feel like that would come into play role-play wise. Game-play wise, looking over Gloom Stalker(and my love of the Ranger cliche in general) I might put that more to use in another campaign. Especially since you've had a good time running the combo. I may just message you one day in the future asking for you take on it all having actually played it. Thank you for your experience!

-To Bobthewizard-
I agree and am leaning toward leaving heavily toward INT lower than 20 and using feats to make it really hard to catch me or at least keep me somewhere. The problem I initially had with your assumption is that I still have to play this character to 20, but even then, making use of feats would be great fun, since I already do have above average stats compared to point buy, so ASI aren't really necessary. Thanks for the insight!

-To Sorinth-
I agree with your assessment, but for my character(since I've come to some conclusions thus far) is to embrace my Rogue side more than my Wizard side. Especially early on where that 20 DEX is going to take me far. You make a good point with Elven Accuracy and not needing 20 DEX early due to having "super" advantage, though, but having that Dex maxed to begin with fits my idea more with being more Rogue-like.

I'll keep you tactics despite not having 20 Int in mind. I'll consider Fog Cloud/Darkness.

Here ya got me. I'm thinking of deception more and more and a 14 in CHA would be nice. Expertise is hard to spare, but with high DEX (as Eldariel mentioned earlier) I could probably replace some of my expertise to boost lower STAT ones and it definitely would help with insurrections/tricking. Strongly considering this.

We like to actively do skill checks and considering I might be in dire situations/time constraints and being a solo Rogue, I'm pretty set on taking Thieves' Tools. I get your point, but I can expect not getting that option when it REALLY matters from my DM, even with some leniency.

You certainly gave me a lot to consider and I appreciate that. Thanks!