Tasha Ability Flexibility and Racial Spells

[nickl_2000]

How do you handle racial casting stats when you allow the flexible abilities increases? For example, would you allow a Tiefling who took +2 Strength, +1 Wisdom to use Wisdom as the spell casting modifier on their spells?

Is there official word on this?

[Segev]

How do you handle racial casting stats when you allow the flexible abilities increases? For example, would you allow a Tiefling who took +2 Strength, +1 Wisdom to use Wisdom as the spell casting modifier on their spells?

Is there official word on this?

The RAW do not permit this, but all of the Tasha's Cauldron rules for racial floating stats are optional anyway. If the DM is allowing those, why not allow floating casting stats for racial spells? Surely (I say only half-sarcastically), that will only enable more creative character concepts.

[nickl_2000]

The RAW do not permit this, but all of the Tasha's Cauldron rules for racial floating stats are optional anyway. If the DM is allowing those, why not allow floating casting stats for racial spells? Surely (I say only half-sarcastically), that will only enable more creative character concepts.

I applaud your efforts in making every other letter blue to denote half sarcasm.

[da newt]

Might as well go whole hog and open all the racial feats to all races too.

[x3n0n]

Agreed with others: RAW, a Tiefling will always cast their innate spells with Cha.

I would even say that they should probably continue to cast with Cha unless real effort is devoted to refluffing the source of those abilities. Hellish Rebuke doesn't feel like a Druid spell, but maybe it could be a Cleric-ish spell in the vein of a Celestial Warlock. If a player wants to do this, I'd be willing (as DM or teammate) to cooperate as long as they can come up with a rationale that works for the table.

[KorvinStarmast]

Might as well go whole hog and open all the racial feats to all races too. I really don't like feats gated by race. Your idea is one way to resolve that. Me, I'd just get rid of all racial feats (sorry, Xanathar's) except Prodigy. (Exception: I'd fold Prodigy and Skilled together to make just one feat out of them).

But that's me wishing a wish that will never come true. :smallfurious: Feats are, allegedly, a customization option. (I do like the Tasha's feats that are kind of like Prodigy ...)

[BoutsofInsanity]

By Raw, no, Racial spells will cast by what the rules state.

Are you really breaking anything by changing it around?

Not really. The amount of fun a player is going to have being able to cast a cool racial ability using a primary stat over a potential dump stat is going to be greater then disallowing it.

I'd allow it provided the player really wanted too.

Hell, I'd allow all sorts of stat switching in casting classes. Paladins keyed off of Wisdom and Warlocks Intelligence aren't really going to change anything as far as I'm concerned. If it fulfills the concept the player has in mind better I think that's fine.

I would though watch for "Bad Actors" who might go for some busted up multi-classing. But that again, handled at table and session 0. Keying a Paladin off of Wisdom, and a tiefling off of Wisdom would finally let me play an unarmed monk/paladin multi-class/tiefling that i've wanted to for so long.

So there you go.

[Wildstag]

I really don't like feats gated by race. Your idea is one way to resolve that. Me, I'd just get rid of all racial feats (sorry, Xanathar's) except Prodigy. (Exception: I'd fold Prodigy and Skilled together to make just one feat out of them).

Eh, some of them make sense. The Dragonborn and Tiefling feats make sense being gated behind race. And an exemplary Dragonborn or Tiefling SHOULD be able to manifest certain traits regardless of class. The other ones seem less tied to bloodline and more just tied to secrets passed down and kept within race.

[stoutstien]

Eh, some of them make sense. The Dragonborn and Tiefling feats make sense being gated behind race. And an exemplary Dragonborn or Tiefling SHOULD be able to manifest certain traits regardless of class. The other ones seem less tied to bloodline and more just tied to secrets passed down and kept within race.

The idea is ok but the feat system is a poor place for it to be located. Problem is without serious homebrewing options are limited.

[Anymage]

By Raw, no, Racial spells will cast by what the rules state.

Are you really breaking anything by changing it around?

Not really. The amount of fun a player is going to have being able to cast a cool racial ability using a primary stat over a potential dump stat is going to be greater then disallowing it.

I'd allow it provided the player really wanted too.

Hell, I'd allow all sorts of stat switching in casting classes. Paladins keyed off of Wisdom and Warlocks Intelligence aren't really going to change anything as far as I'm concerned. If it fulfills the concept the player has in mind better I think that's fine.

I would though watch for "Bad Actors" who might go for some busted up multi-classing. But that again, handled at table and session 0. Keying a Paladin off of Wisdom, and a tiefling off of Wisdom would finally let me play an unarmed monk/paladin multi-class/tiefling that i've wanted to for so long.

So there you go.

This. I'd be very wary throwing it wide open to anything the player might possibly want sight unseen, because that's just asking for optimization headaches. If the concept doesn't seem more powerful than the default and helps realize the player's vision better, however, fun > RAW.

[P. G. Macer]

In addition to the RAW itself (which has been pointed put numerous times here), there is also precedent within 5e for the casting stat remaining the same. In the Sword Coast Adventurer’s Guide, there are tiefling customization options. Aside from the infamous Winged Tiefling, most alter the race’s innate spellcasting. The one exception is Feral, which changes the tiefling’s racial ASIs from +2 CHA/+1 INT to +2 DEX/+1 INT. Despite no longer getting a CHA boost, should the tiefling lack wings (in which case it loses the Infernal Legacy trait entirely), the tiefling’s innate casting stat remains Charisma.

Now, you may argue that the precedent I’ve mentioned is shaky given that SCAG was largely the work of Green Ronin working under the WotC label and not Wizards themselves, and I would not dispute that, given that 1) WotC’s seeming desire to pretend that book doesn’t exist, both disappearing from AL as a valid source and the Undead Warlock from the upcoming Van Richten’s Guide to Ravenloft soft-replacing SCAG’s Undying warlock, and 2) that the Hexblood, Fairy, and Owlfok UA races allow you to choose from the mental stats your PC’s casting ability. However, for the time being, I think the precedent is worth noting until we get confirmation to the contrary at a future time, though WotC has been historically VERY reticent to use errata to revise published 5e content, though the recent hullabaloo concerning fantasy races has been an exception that has moved them to remove the Orc and Kobold’s stat penalties.

[Arkhios]

I don't think there's a reason to wiggle around with racial casting stats.

If you're playing a race that has a racial spell and you chose the race because of it, or your class makes use of the same ability score, it's very likely you're going to have a high score anyway.

If on the other hand you chose that race for some other reason entirely, it's probable you would have a low score in the ability anyway.

[Luccan]

How do you handle racial casting stats when you allow the flexible abilities increases? For example, would you allow a Tiefling who took +2 Strength, +1 Wisdom to use Wisdom as the spell casting modifier on their spells?

Is there official word on this?

I already switched the casting stat for Feral Tieflings and would've considered it for half-elves that took the high elf cantrip instead of skills, so I think I'm in support of switching it for Tasha's flexible stats. I'd rule you still have to pick a normal casting stat though. So if you pick two physical stats to bump, you're still casting with a mental state. No casting with your muscles , nimbleness, or liver.

[Theodoxus]

I applaud your efforts in making every other letter blue to denote half sarcasm.

Same, though my eyes are quite angry with it for some reason.


Hell, I'd allow all sorts of stat switching in casting classes. Paladins keyed off of Wisdom and Warlocks Intelligence aren't really going to change anything as far as I'm concerned. If it fulfills the concept the player has in mind better I think that's fine.

I would though watch for "Bad Actors" who might go for some busted up multi-classing. But that again, handled at table and session 0. Keying a Paladin off of Wisdom, and a tiefling off of Wisdom would finally let me play an unarmed monk/paladin multi-class/tiefling that i've wanted to for so long.

So there you go.

Just curious, if you were to allow, for instance, Paladins to use Wis in place of Cha, would you also change their multiclassing requirement from Cha 13 to Wis 13?

[BoutsofInsanity]

Same, though my eyes are quite angry with it for some reason.



Just curious, if you were to allow, for instance, Paladins to use Wis in place of Cha, would you also change their multiclassing requirement from Cha 13 to Wis 13?

I typically ignore multi-classing requirements, but yes I would change the requirement if it were to come up.

I'm also not running RAW games for a ton of people rotating in and out of my table. I've only got at max 5 players at anytime and we have gamed together for a bit by now. So by this point we've hammered out anything that's not RAW based on player's wishes.

Which of course makes me the popular DM. But of course when I want to do something not RAW as a player I get hard no. Which always makes me salty. And the player's wonder why I'm the popular DM at the table. Blarg.


Honestly at this point there really isn't anything within reason that I could give the players that I couldn't deal with. By now, I'd consider myself top-tier with system mastery and comfort level with DMing 5e at this point. There really isn't much outside of some weird spell interactions I'd run into that would frustrate me as a DM that I can't deal with.

More often I'm dealing with Tone and consistency with character's over mechanical builds. I'd rather help a player reach a coherent character concept that fits tonally in the game over them stretching the system to make whatever "it" is happen.