Survival game

[Shinoskay]

You are a squishy wizard, no spell book... no gear, just the cloths on your back... level 1... lets say elf so no weird or op races dont get suggested/used.
Threats arent to scale, meaning you could face goblins, skeletons, or even manticores.

All needs are relevant here, food, warmth, etc.
How do you survive?

How do you fight?

[H_H_F_F]

Where am I? And do I get to customize my feats for this scenario?

[illyahr]

Wizards can always prepare read magic, so first order of business beyond avoiding any and all fights is to find some scrolls. Even a 0-level spell is one more than you had before, and create water would be a big step forward in survival. Next would be an attack spell, such as acid splash in order to hunt wildlife.

[H_H_F_F]

Wizards can always prepare read magic, so first order of business beyond avoiding any and all fights is to find some scrolls. Even a 0-level spell is one more than you had before, and create water would be a big step forward in survival. Next would be an attack spell, such as acid splash in order to hunt wildlife.

This relates to my "where are you" question.

Of course, if you can build for that scenario, just take spell mastery once or twice, and eschew materials. Would make your life much easier.

[Maat Mons]

Can I use the Eidetic Wizard ACF? The one that makes it so I can prepare all my spells without a spellbook?

Can my spellbook be tattooed onto me? As per the rules in Complete Arcane?

Do I have my familiar with me?

Can I use the Skeletal Minion ACF? The one that gives me a human warrior skeleton instead of a familiar?

Can I take the Wild Cohort feat? Get myself a riding dog to fight for me?

Can I take the ACF that gives me an animal companion instead of a familiar? Get myself a second riding dog to fight for me?

Can I be an elf who has already been turned into a necropolitan? Eliminate my need for food and water?

[Kelb_Panthera]

Alone? Realistically, I probably don't. A wizard without his spellbook is a commoner with some esoteric skills and weapon proficiencies. None of which is conducive to a survival scenario. Oh, and a smarter than average pet, I suppose.

It's pretty unlikely you have any ranks in survival unless you were going for arcane hierophant down the line (or your GM told you up front that this was the scenario and it's gonna be a one-shot) so you don't even know the first thing to do unless you're at least modestly survival trained IRL and metagame the crap out of it.

If you're a so-called "ez-bake wizard" then between eidetic spellcaster and collegiate wizard, you've at least got your spells and a marginal shot but anything less and you're pretty well hozed. Even the familiar/ AC swap is gonna depend pretty hard on your AC being skilled enough in survival to feed you both and the weather and climate being gentle enough you're not absolutely thrashed by exposure.

The first three concerns, in-order, are shelter, water, and fire.

On the first, wizard might actually be a boon since know (architecture and engineering) is actually a moderately likely skill to have. Unseen servant (if you haven't been bereft of ways to prepare spells) is great for conserving energy while gathering materials for both cobbling together a shelter and getting burnables. Good old prestidigitation can be used to light kindling pretty trivially, then you just make sure the fire never goes out completely. Locate water is a 1st level spell that will be utterly invaluable unless you're on a volcanic island or something similar... if you know it.

You're still pretty well screwed in an open fight with... anything... so avoid that like it has plague.

[Metastachydium]

A wizard without his spellbook is a commoner with some esoteric skills and weapon proficiencies. None of which is conducive to a survival scenario. Oh, and a smarter than average pet, I suppose.


I kind of disagree. Some of their skills are actually pretty useful and they have the best kind of weapon proficiencies for the job (i.e. the only ones they can use in this scenario). Wizards have all the Knowledge skills (and any self-respecting wizard will have at least a +4 for all of them without skill ranks), which include Knowledge (nature) and Knowledge (geography). With these, the wizard is able to do stuff like predicting the weather and getting a rough idea of their location, which is crucial because the wizard needs to get somewhere safe and civilized as fast as possible. If the wizard has 5+ ranks in K (n), the wizard also has a +2 synergy bonus to Survival, which otherwise isn't a trained only skill (also, the DC for that being 10, foraging for food and water isn't an impossible task without that bonus either, especially if the wizard can take 10). Further, the Knowledge skills cover knowledge about all creatures. With enough checks, the wizard will be able to determine what hostile creatures may be present in the area, how these behave and what is the best strategy the wizard can employ to avoid these.
As for weapon proficiencies, the wizard is proficient with both weapons they can find out in the wilderness for free: the club and the quarterstaff.
All in all, the wizard is a suboptimal choice for the task (probably even compared to commoners who get Climb, Handle Animal, Spot and Swim as class skills), but not entirely hopeless even without tricks.

[Shinoskay]

You have to get everything in game, no starting with a familiar, book, or otherwise.

lets assume you can start with spells tattoo'ed.
For the sake of challenge, lets also assume you dont get to start with the necropolitan template.

Keeping a fire going isn't terribly hard, the spell slow burn would help that.

[liquidformat]

You have to get everything in game, no starting with a familiar, book, or otherwise.

lets assume you can start with spells tattoo'ed.
For the sake of challenge, lets also assume you dont get to start with the necropolitan template.

Keeping a fire going isn't terribly hard, the spell slow burn would help that.

What rules are you putting in around familiar acquisition there really aren't any hard rules for it beyond improved familiar?...

[H_H_F_F]

You have to get everything in game, no starting with a familiar, book, or otherwise.

lets assume you can start with spells tattoo'ed.
For the sake of challenge, lets also assume you dont get to start with the necropolitan template.

Keeping a fire going isn't terribly hard, the spell slow burn would help that.

I mean, if you have tattooed spells, then no problem, right? Just get eschew materials and you're good to go.

Otherwise, take the Dragon magazine acf mentioned earlier or take arcane mastery twice.

Get endure elements and create water.

[Maat Mons]

The OP didn't directly address Eidetic Wizard. But tattooed spellbooks are allowed. And Eidetic Wizard doesn't really accomplish anything in this scenario that a tattoo spellbook doesn't. So I'm going to take that to mean that the ACF is allowed.

I personally like Eidetic Wizard more than tattoo spellbooks just on thematic grounds. So I'll be considering the former. If you want to use a tattoo spellbook instead, I guess that mostly just means you can pick a different ACF that replaces you familiar.

The scenario practically requires the Eschew Materials feat. And we're locked into playing some variety of elf. So that's our only feat... unless flaws are allowed?

Why elf of all races anyway? Most elven subraces have a Constitution penalty, which makes them uniquely bad choices here. I could see a rationale for banning elan, neraphim, and warforged, since they don't need to eat. And I guess you could argue that small races have an unfair advantage since they need half as much food. Then there are Jermlain an muckdwellers, which presumably need even less food. And reptilian subtype races, which I think have a rule somewhere about needing less water. But only elves?

Anyway, arctic elves, desert elves, and snow elves all dodge that -2 Con penalty. The arctic and desert varieties even get bonuses to checks to endure extreemes of weather, at least in one direction each. Not that you really need it when you can cast Endure Elements.

If flaws are allowed, maybe the Collegiate Wizard feat would be good. Normally, you wouldn't want to spend a feat to get extra spells in you "spellbook." But normally you can just spend a little gold and maybe RP a bit to add new spells. If you're gonna be Robinson Crusoe, that changes things.

[liquidformat]

The OP didn't directly address Eidetic Wizard. But tattooed spellbooks are allowed. And Eidetic Wizard doesn't really accomplish anything in this scenario that a tattoo spellbook doesn't. So I'm going to take that to mean that the ACF is allowed.

I personally like Eidetic Wizard more than tattoo spellbooks just on thematic grounds. So I'll be considering the former. If you want to use a tattoo spellbook instead, I guess that mostly just means you can pick a different ACF that replaces you familiar.

The scenario practically requires the Eschew Materials feat. And we're locked into playing some variety of elf. So that's our only feat... unless flaws are allowed?

Why elf of all races anyway? Most elven subraces have a Constitution penalty, which makes them uniquely bad choices here. I could see a rationale for banning elan, neraphim, and warforged, since they don't need to eat. And I guess you could argue that small races have an unfair advantage since they need half as much food. Then there are Jermlain an muckdwellers, which presumably need even less food. And reptilian subtype races, which I think have a rule somewhere about needing less water. But only elves?

Anyway, arctic elves, desert elves, and snow elves all dodge that -2 Con penalty. The arctic and desert varieties even get bonuses to checks to endure extreemes of weather, at least in one direction each. Not that you really need it when you can cast Endure Elements.

If flaws are allowed, maybe the Collegiate Wizard feat would be good. Normally, you wouldn't want to spend a feat to get extra spells in you "spellbook." But normally you can just spend a little gold and maybe RP a bit to add new spells. If you're gonna be Robinson Crusoe, that changes things.

How practical is tattoo spell book though? I feel like unless you have an army of slaves you can't expect to have more than maybe 10 spells. The fact that you need enough room to tattoo each spell onto yourself and be able to see said tattoo to study it I can't imagine it is particularly effective especially without a mirror...

I don't think tattoo spell book is a viable option for anything but the most important spells. I think you would either need Eidetic Wizard ACF or Spell Mastery plus tattoo spellbook to really pull this off.

[The_Jette]

I typically take Knowledge (Nature) as a Wizard because I never trust the party Druid to do so. Also, I like summoning elementals to fight for me with Summon Monster because I don't like having my Wizard summon Celestials or Demonic creatures. I feel like it shows that they're taking a side. So, using my familiar (typically an owl), I would scout the area and find a decent small cave. Then, since I have a naturally high intelligence anyways, start out making small traps using Craft: Traps at default level. Hopefully I can capture small animals for food. Then, once food and shelter are taken care of, it's time to start using Craft: Bookbinding to create a makeshift spell book. It'll take longer, since I have no ranks in it. But, once that's accomplished I can start working on transcribing any spells that I had memorized prior to losing my spell book. If my traps aren't capturing anything, then my owl can hunt at night and bring me back enough small critters to keep me alive. The only question is whether or not there's water in the area. I'll need to be able to gather wood in my cave, too, so that I can build a fire. Plus, I have to pots and pans to boil water in. So, I'll have to use my ingenuity, and high intelligence score, to turn a large rock into a small bowl. That'll pull double duty as both a pot to boil water in, and a bowl to drink said water out of. Roasting the small creatures that I, or my owl, capture over a fire will have to do until I can get my spells up and running. After that, it'll depend what spells I have available.

Edit: I didn't see the part about not being able to start with a familiar. So, I guess, finding a cave to hole up in will take longer. And, after that, the first goal would be to gather enough resources to summon a familiar. That's going to take a while, so I'll have to rely on my traps to capture my food for a while. But, once I can summon a familiar, things will be back on schedule.

[Kelb_Panthera]

How practical is tattoo spell book though? I feel like unless you have an army of slaves you can't expect to have more than maybe 10 spells. The fact that you need enough room to tattoo each spell onto yourself and be able to see said tattoo to study it I can't imagine it is particularly effective especially without a mirror...

I don't think tattoo spell book is a viable option for anything but the most important spells. I think you would either need Eidetic Wizard ACF or Spell Mastery plus tattoo spellbook to really pull this off.

30 pages of space you can see without help, according to the table in CAr. If you toss a bunch of useless cantrips into a paper book that was lost before the scenario begins, you won't even need to take your shirt off at level 1.

I usually carry a traditional spellbook and only have important, "can't do without 'em" spells tattooed since it costs double. The only cantrip in that latter set is detect magic. Combines beautifully with the geometer's "all your spells only take up 1 page" feature but that won't come up in this scenario.

[Quertus]

Alone? Realistically, I probably don't.

This, really, is the correct answer.

Anywhere where encounters aren't level appropriate, where things as dangerous as Manticores are on the random encounter charts? A lone Commoner 1 isn't likely to survive long.

From the taxes thread, a (historic) Commoner with a farm who had to pay 1/11th to 1/17th of their food as taxes may well starve to death. A Commoner with no farm and rampaging monsters? Much less chance.

In D&D, though?

AFB, going from memory… 8 hours, survival DC 10 -> food for self; every +2 beyond DC 10 -> feed 1 additional man-sized creature. Your average Wizard is looking at a +0 on that roll.

Rules for getting food via "traps"? Rules for price / craft DC for traps? Of course, by RAW, you cannot craft the traps without $$$ in raw materials… which, dysfunctionally, there aren't rules for collecting raw materials in RAW that I'm aware of. My own personal house rule is that you can collect $$$ equivalent of area-appropriate raw materials in lieu of food & water on a survival check.

If random encounters are edible, they can provide a much-needed boost in foodstuffs here. Then again, your average Elf Wizard in this scenario is AC 11, 3 HP, Attack +0, damage 1d6 with that quarterstaff that they generated 0 seconds in. So they're likely to be killed in a fair fight against an angry housecat, let alone Manticores. They'd better hope that they get some nice 0-damage bats for their random encounter… although eating said bats could be problematic.

Unless you're an easy-bake Wizard with a really lucky starting location, rife with non-diseased 0-damage bats in a sheltering cave & a freshwater spring, where you level enough from killing *bats* before ever having to roll random encounters to have a chance to survive, I'm not seeing many Wizards having good odds on making it out alive.

[Maat Mons]

Regarding that Wizard ACF to get an animal companion, which of the 1st-level companions would you describe as "most edible?"

You know, the great thing about making poison with Psionic Minor Creation is that the poison stops existing after an hour. So the meat of anything you killed with the it becomes safe to eat.

If you manage to craft a spell-component pouch, how many of the components that it spontaneously generates are edible?

According to the internet, a mare can produce 10-20 liters of milk per day. And also according to the internet, mare's milk provides 600 calories per liter. That's enough to cover the nutritional needs of 3-6 people!

Between the Animal Companion ACF and the Wild Cohort feat, you could gain two horses, a mare and a stallion. Then you just let them do their thing, wait 11-12 months and... this plan may be a little too long-term.

[Shinoskay]

Where are you guys getting create water from?

Looking at that spell;
Conjuration (Creation) [Water]
Level: Clr 0, Drd 0, Pal 1

Create Water
(Player's Handbook v.3.5, p. 215)

Conjuration (Creation) [Water]
Level: Cleric 0, Druid 0, Adept 0, Healer 0, Divine Bard 0, Jester 0, Urban Druid 0, Paladin 1, Creation 1,

[Shinoskay]

If random encounters are edible, they can provide a much-needed boost in foodstuffs here. Then again, your average Elf Wizard in this scenario is AC 11, 3 HP, Attack +0, damage 1d6 with that quarterstaff that they generated 0 seconds in. So they're likely to be killed in a fair fight against an angry housecat, let alone Manticores. They'd better hope that they get some nice 0-damage bats for their random encounter… although eating said bats could be problematic.

this made me laugh, damn angry house cats.


This, really, is the correct answer.

Rules for getting food via "traps"? Rules for price / craft DC for traps? Of course, by RAW, you cannot craft the traps without $$$ in raw materials… which, dysfunctionally, there aren't rules for collecting raw materials in RAW that I'm aware of. My own personal house rule is that you can collect $$$ equivalent of area-appropriate raw materials in lieu of food & water on a survival check.


I did extensive research on this recently, both 3.5 AND pathfinder. The best you can do per raw is do a profession (or survival, I guess) check to gather x coin worth of raw material and then you can use that coin worth material for crafting. It's a long, tedius, and inefficient process... but theoretically possible.

It's actually much easier to turn the things you kill into coin value material, because the trophy and harvesting from kills rules give you a lot more value and take a lot less time. Mostly pathfinder rules though, not sure if 3.5 has that.
And, of course, this scenario is for 3.5 and not pathfinder so now I am going to go research what harvest and trophy rules 3.5 has.

but, I digress for this post. yes. it's really annoying there isnt any simple 'I have trees, rocks, and earth around me... let me just dig a pit or chop down that tree and vuala I have this thing made' rules.

[liquidformat]

this made me laugh, damn angry house cats.



I did extensive research on this recently, both 3.5 AND pathfinder. The best you can do per raw is do a profession (or survival, I guess) check to gather x coin worth of raw material and then you can use that coin worth material for crafting. It's a long, tedius, and inefficient process... but theoretically possible.

It's actually much easier to turn the things you kill into coin value material, because the trophy and harvesting from kills rules give you a lot more value and take a lot less time. Mostly pathfinder rules though, not sure if 3.5 has that.
And, of course, this scenario is for 3.5 and not pathfinder so now I am going to go research what harvest and trophy rules 3.5 has.

but, I digress for this post. yes. it's really annoying there isnt any simple 'I have trees, rocks, and earth around me... let me just dig a pit or chop down that tree and vuala I have this thing made' rules.

Also there are a few 'traps' presented in A&EG and they tend to just give you like +2 to survival skills for catching certain types of prey which seems reasonable since just because you make a trap doesn't mean anything is going to trigger it...

Over all a wizard without a spellbook seems pretty SOL in this scenario and it really comes down to how common the higher CR encounters are.

[ShurikVch]

Anagakok wizard variant (Dragon #344) have Survival as class skill, bonus to Survival and Knowledge (nature) checks, and spontaneous casting of Endure Elements
Their "spellbooks" are, actually, a pieces of tree bark, stone plates, or something like that

[Vizzerdrix]

Hmm... Is their any way to get access to a fire based reserve feat? That would go a long way to helping with survival.

[Maat Mons]

If flaws are allowed, you can get the Fiery Burst reserve feat by qualifying with Precocious Apprentice.

There's also the option of taking the Shape Soulmeld feat for Acidic Spittle.

If you want to kill weak animals like a mofo, you can take the Bane Magic feat, and designate creatures of the Animal type. That makes a humble Sonic Snap deal 2d6+1 points of sonic damage, unerringly, to any bird or whatever foolish enough to get within 30 feet of you.

According to my calculations, you can level up by catching 34 frogs. Actually, you might not need to catch them. If the frogs flee, that counts as winning the encounter, right?

If your animal companion kills an enemy, you still get the experience, right? So I can sit in a cave while my pet wolf racks up kills on my behalf?

For that matter, the same goes for familiars too, right? So if I'm a Wizard studying in my tower, and my cat familiar is killing rats in the basement, I'll eventually hit level 9 just from that, right? Is this why so many Wizards mistakenly think that studying will advance them in level? Because while they've been wasting their time with books, their familiars have been hard at work getting them xp?

[Vizzerdrix]

If flaws are allowed, you can get the Fiery Burst reserve feat by qualifying with Precocious Apprentice.

There's also the option of taking the Shape Soulmeld feat for Acidic Spittle.

Acid may be better, but FB can be used to make fire for cooking, signaling, and heat.

[Shinoskay]

I'm going to introduce a few of my own ideas into the proverbial cauldron now.

Instead of a spell book, you could actually carve out 'token' spells, using bones, wood, and stones to store your spells. I think this only needs craft caligraphy or craft runes but I think it's a lot less resource demanding considering book binding requires you make paper, or find appropriate paper like material, and make ink... then put them together.

Having an infinite and accurate combat spell through precaucious is clever and efficeint but there is a spell 'create trap' that lets you just make a trap and then you can lure an enemy to it. I think Dnd assumes there is always stones nearby, so you can start grabbing stones and chucking them at your pitfall trapped pray until you finally take it out (the trap already wounded it so this isn't terribly hard).

Black bag seems like an excellent source of tools (saws, picks, and hammers are often used for torture... it's a little cheesy but seems within the confines of the spell to me. feel free to disagree). It should also have scalpels, tourniquets, blood draw implements... if it's relatively simple and you can think of a way to torture someone with it... this bag should have it.

For sures, a wizard needs health, lesser spiderform is one of the only level 1 spells that gives temp health and it's a swift action spell at that. Plus it gives you the ability to cast web as a spell like ability 4 times per day (though you have one or two rounds to use those sla) and and the poison is known to persist even after you return to normal (again, feel free to disagree).

Just some tricks that stand out to me as essential for a solo wizard desperately trying to survive.

[Calthropstu]

This is easy.

I have knowledge nature, and only a wizard who will never need to adventure doesn't take a few ranks in survival. Knowledge architecture too. And craft alchemy for good measure. Finally, craft:weapons because I want to be a crafter.

First thing first, find somewhere with water easily accessible. Next, I get a set of simple tools by using vines, rocks and sticks. I make a makeshift forge out of a boulder and use the tools I made to create a stone blade and axe. Not the best around, but unless some metal is nearby, I'm working with what I got. I also build a fishing rod outof vines and sticks.

Now, let's make a building. I have wood and stone to work with. Well, with my stone axe and a nice stone blade, I get some wood. I shave it, form it, and build mysrlf a small lean-to. It'll do for now.

Between fishing and gathering I've got my food needs met. Time to go and figure out how to get a spellbook. Well, with craft:alchemy, I know what I need. Or what I can substitute. So gathering it will take time but should be doable. Now I need to get to making something to write on.
After that, I have spells. I begin adventuring in my new locale, and eventually I have some means of knowing where I am, and how to get out.

[Crake]

It's pretty unlikely you have any ranks in survival unless you were going for arcane hierophant down the line (or your GM told you up front that this was the scenario and it's gonna be a one-shot) so you don't even know the first thing to do unless you're at least modestly survival trained IRL and metagame the crap out of it.

To be fair, surviving in the wilds by finding food and water is a DC10 survival check, so anyone with at least 10 wisdom can take 10 and succeed on that.

[JyP]

Well, as a 1st-level wizard with only my splendid wizard robe, suddenly in the wild : I try to find the nearest barbarian village, exchange my scholar's outfit for 5 gp - and get a peasant's outfit for 1 sp.

With my remaining 4.9 gp, I need to find 7.6 gp of materials to be able to write a scroll of read magic in only one day, and someone to buy them, to start my cash machine. Then I will be able to invent spells from scratch again, by finding a library somewhere. As I am an elf, I have much time before me to do so.

So meanwhile, as I know how to read and write, unlike the barbarians, and have extensive knowledges, a good intelligence, I can at least negotiate with the DM to be a public scribe in the village, even though I did not take Profession(Scribe) as a skill beforehand. I can even start as a merchant, as my good intelligence helps with appraisal rolls.

Well, I hope I did not dump Charisma as a stat to negotiate with barbarians :smallbiggrin:

[Jack_Simth]

An Easy Bake Wizard (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?325933-Easy-Bake-Wizard-Handbook) has an easier time of it.
Gray Elf Eidetic Spellcaster Domain Wizard (with the Elven Generalist Substitution level). With flaws, Versatile Spellcaster + Heighten Spell gives 9th's (if at caster level 1), you can be a leapfrog wizard and have two 9ths available.... Meteor Swarms (Fire domain) or Comet Swarms (Ice domain) to deal with the occasional level-inappropriate encounter works reasonably well, if you can win initiative. Two flaws, and you go Collegiate Wizard as well (netting you 5 spells per level, plus one domain spell per spell level, in addition to the various bonus starting spells).

Other good Picks: Battle Domain (Time Stop escape!), Conjouration Domain (Wall of Stone slow-building, two castings of Gate will get you somewhere civilized), Enchantment Domain (Suggestion, Mass Charm Monster, Dominate Monster), Illusion Domain (Shades, Invisibility, Phantasmal Killer), Necromancy (False Life, Energy Drain), Transmutation Domain (Shapechange, Polymorph, Disintegrate).

[rel]

Wizards aren't druids, they work best with the support of civilisation, not camping out in the woods. Start by using survival to gather some raw materials then craft to turn them into useful equipment. even a sling and a quarterstaff would help keep you alive.
Keep your limited selection of spells in reserve for emergencies and use knowledge (geography) and survival to try and make it to a town before your spells run out and you get eaten by feral gnomes.
Once you reach town things get marginally easier. You could make untrained craft rolls and try and build up some capital or you can take the risky approach and go adventuring.
Sit in a tavern and try and join an adventuring party claiming to be a ranger or something. You might still have a few of your starting emergency spells, your skills, anything you were able to make / scavenge and your smarts. Stay at the back of the party, hold the torch, plink with your sling and try and get loot and more supplies.
As soon as you can afford to buy a spellbook and scribing supplies you're an actual wizard again.

[aglondier]

Spell Mastery. Prestidigitation, Mending, Freezing Ray, Magic Missile.

Skills. Knowledge(Nature), Knowledge(Engineering). Survival would be nice, but unlikely. Profession(scribe or bookbinder).

Pick up a long stick, viola, a staff.

K(n) gets you a side door into Survival, gathering food, finding shelter. It also lets you know about the local wildlife and find materials that could be used to summon and bind a familiar.
K(e) lets him build a dwelling, defences, and traps to catch food in.
Profession(s or b) would let you make a rudimentary book and inks to scribe any unused spells in your memory so you can reuse them.

[liquidformat]

To be fair, surviving in the wilds by finding food and water is a DC10 survival check, so anyone with at least 10 wisdom can take 10 and succeed on that.

I thought you had to have ranks in a skill to take 10, or is that just a house rule with my group, AFB so not sure?

On a side note it always bugs me how easy d&d makes surviving in the wild but then again it is a battle sim game not a survival/daily grind game.


I'm going to introduce a few of my own ideas into the proverbial cauldron now.

Instead of a spell book, you could actually carve out 'token' spells, using bones, wood, and stones to store your spells. I think this only needs craft caligraphy or craft runes but I think it's a lot less resource demanding considering book binding requires you make paper, or find appropriate paper like material, and make ink... then put them together.
.

Sure it is easier to find bones, stones, and wood; however, you haven't gotten away from the fact that you still need 100gp worth of materials to be used in the processing of said bones, stones, and wood to make them into each spell. Plus now you potentially have to lug around quite a bit of weight for your caveman spellbook which isn't good for a character with str as a dump stat...

[InvisibleBison]

I thought you had to have ranks in a skill to take 10, or is that just a house rule with my group, AFB so not sure?

Only some skills require ranks to make skill checks, and Survival is not one of them.

[Calthropstu]

I thought you had to have ranks in a skill to take 10, or is that just a house rule with my group, AFB so not sure?

On a side note it always bugs me how easy d&d makes surviving in the wild but then again it is a battle sim game not a survival/daily grind game.



Sure it is easier to find bones, stones, and wood; however, you haven't gotten away from the fact that you still need 100gp worth of materials to be used in the processing of said bones, stones, and wood to make them into each spell. Plus now you potentially have to lug around quite a bit of weight for your caveman spellbook which isn't good for a character with str as a dump stat...

The 100gp per 1st level spell is achieved by gathering the 100gp worth of components.

[Maat Mons]

I don't think there are any rules for gathering crafting/scribing materials from the wild. But the most sensible house-rule I've heard is that whatever you roll to find the necessary ingredients, the gp value of the ingredients you manage to collect is equal to the gp you would have earned with that same check result if you'd been rolling Profession.

For example, if you roll 10 on a Profession check, you make 5 gp in a week. So if you roll 10 on... whatever check the DM asks for to find materials for scribing spells... you manage to find 5 gp-worth of components that week. So if you keep rolling 10s, it will take you 20 weeks to get together the 100 gp-worth of whatever you need to write spells into your spellbook/spell-bark-strip-pile/spell-bag-of-rocks.

[liquidformat]

I don't think there are any rules for gathering crafting/scribing materials from the wild. But the most sensible house-rule I've heard is that whatever you roll to find the necessary ingredients, the gp value of the ingredients you manage to collect is equal to the gp you would have earned with that same check result if you'd been rolling Profession.

For example, if you roll 10 on a Profession check, you make 5 gp in a week. So if you roll 10 on... whatever check the DM asks for to find materials for scribing spells... you manage to find 5 gp-worth of components that week. So if you keep rolling 10s, it will take you 20 weeks to get together the 100 gp-worth of whatever you need to write spells into your spellbook/spell-bark-strip-pile/spell-bag-of-rocks.

Yea this is what I was thinking too, this does make professions much more important as traditionally they are rather useless.

In general I think this scenario is a bit more interesting without Eidetic Spellcaster, since the ACF really allows you to just handwave a huge headache of it and a important and thematic part of being a wizard. As such I think the best way to go without using Eidetic Spellcaster is tattoo spells for your 30~ most important spells then the rest being lugged around as talismans.

In this scenario due to potential of monsters who are over CR'ed being present without the use of abuses like Jack_Simth presented; hide, spot, listen, and move silently become very important and also the ability to track, as being able to identify the tracks of creatures outside your power level allows you to avoid said creatures.

So with all that said here is what I am thinking. I would do the following

Combat Wizard: Martial Study (Child of Shadow), this gives me hide as a class skill and I can move 10' to gain concealment and therefor hide
Wilderness Companion ACF, I think the best choice here is a wolf since that gives survival and track. The big issue here is it is ambiguous how you procure an animal companion/familiar there are no actual rules for doing so.
Elf Wizard/Elven Generalist and Collegiate Wizard, given the fact that we don't start with a spellbook and have to procure our own materials and make caveman spellbooks I don't think either of these are useful since we are pretty much being forced to pay for every spell we have.
If flaws are allowed Precocious Apprentice is a very nice choice I think I would go with Invisibility since the threat of over CR'ed monsters is real, darkstalker is a smart choice for the same reason as invisibility, Apprentice or other feat that provides perminate class skills (look at picking up spot/listen, handle animal, survival, move silently), Nature Bond to boost AC, and Eschew Materials because a lot of them are just a pain to find.
As far as building the character I would probably take my second level as a wilderness Rogue and shoot for an Unseen Seer build


There are a number of additional skills that will be important to our wizard. Profession (lumberjack, stonecutter/mason, herbalist) will be important to gather materials for building, herbalist should help with finding reagents for creating talisman and poisons and alchemical materials. Craft (carpentry, masonry, poisons, alchemy, and traps) will be important for building and securing a base of operations. Craft (Tattoos, Runes/Calligraphy) are both very important for creating all your spells. Survival should hopefully be filled by your animal companion. Handle Animal will be very useful for dealing with the animal companion and picking up and training some secondary pets though not super useful if you can get above level 5. Knowledge skills like always are super important Nature gives you a bonus so you can help your animal companion with survival checks and probably should help with herbalist profession; engineering will help with stronghold and trapmaking, arcane, Dungeoneering, religion, and planes will help with creature ID, and Dungeoneering and Geography will help with resource procurement. Spellcraft like always is important but might actually be less important than normal. Finally hide, move silently, listen, and spot become very important to avoid encounters that you can't win.

Granted another big question of this endeavor is can you find tribes and villages, if so that would definitely change the whole makeup of the character.

[Shinoskay]

Lets assume it's winter, and you dont know where you are let alone where civilization is.

[Maat Mons]

If you're using a tattoo spellbook, I believe you can choose for your starting 3+Int free spells to be among your tattoos. I don't think you have to start with a paper spellbook, and then copy the spells over as tattoos.

The same for the 2 free spells know for each additional level. I think you can just gain new free tattoos on level-up. I don't think you have to keep a paper spellbook around just to be where the free spell appear.

I mean, lore-wise, you don't just suddenly hit your xp threshold, hear a "ding," and see tattoos materialize on your body. But I think that bit about having the time and cost of the free spell from levels handwaved away applies equally no matter what kind of spellbook you use. Even the tattoo variety.

So, if I'm understanding the setup here, you go through normal character creation, gain your free 3+Int spells known (which can be in a paper tome or tattooed on your body, at your preference), and then, due to some circumstances not explained, wind up stranded alone in the wilderness with nothing but the closes on your back.

I don't see anything stopping a Wizard from entering this challenge with 3+Int spells already tattooed on his body. Or, I guess, 7+Int, if you're using Elven Generalist and Collegiate Wizard.

If the challenge spans multiple levels, the extra spells each time you level up would be kind of nice too. Under the circumstances, you're not going to find any friendly Wizards to copy spells from. And you're probably not going to find any scrolls or spellbooks just laying around the woods either. That means, outside of the free spells you get, you're stuck using the rules for independent research to gain access to new spells. And researching a spell costs, at minimum 1,000 gp per spell level. On top of the 100 gp per spell level you have to pay to write it down. That's a lot or resource gathering. Probably over two years to lay in the supplies to research a 1st-level spell. Not that you couldn't manage with just the Wizard's normal number of free spells.



Winter, eh? I had been considering taking Arcane Disciple to gain access to Create Water, Goodberry, or both. But I guess there's no point in taking either now. If there's snow everywhere, I can just melt it down for all the water I need. And Goodberry's no good without berries.

I had already been leaning heavily in favor of arctic elf over desert elf, but I guess this really cinches it. They're both good because they shift that pesky Con penalty over to useless Str instead. I was trying to decide if I wanted the +2 to Craft, or the +2 to Handle Animal. Now that I know this is going to be a cold place though, I may as well go for the +4 to saves vs cold weather, and the +2 to Survival checks in "arctic environments." Actually, does that apply where we are?

Actually having the environment nailed down is quite nice. I was considering taking Shape Soulmeld (Planar Chasuble) for resistance 10 to cold damage, or Shape Soulmeld (Flame Cincture) for resistance 10 to fire damage. That would wither be immunity to all earthly levels of cold, or immunity to all earthly levels of heat. But without knowing if I was going somewhere hot or cold, I'd have to take both feats to be covered. And that's a lot of feats even with flaws allowed.



...




Aereni Focus (Survival): Elf-only feat that gives you a chosen skill as a class skill, and also gives you a +3 bonus to that skill.




...

Sorry that wasn't cleaned up into something shorter and more coherent... or even really finished.

[rel]

Lets assume it's winter, and you dont know where you are let alone where civilization is.

Under those rules your average level 1 wizard is in trouble. Prepared spells run out quickly, assuming they're even relevant and once they're gone you're a commoner with untrained survival.

Assuming a knowledge (geography) check doesn't reveal a settlement close by, best bet is probably hunkering down and waiting till spring with survival rolls.

You could try gathering supplies for spellcasting or even retraining, but given that wizards often have a wisdom penalty, surviving in winter is likely a full time job.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I thought you had to have ranks in a skill to take 10, or is that just a house rule with my group, AFB so not sure?

On a side note it always bugs me how easy d&d makes surviving in the wild but then again it is a battle sim game not a survival/daily grind game..

Here's the thing about that DC10. It's the starting DC before any circumstance modifiers are applied. There's also the fact that spotting most natural hazards before bumbling into them starts at DC15. Inclement weather and various forms of exposure can really mess you up pretty bad; imposing penalties on even the simple "find food and water" checks along with damage and/or fatigue.

If you're dealing with nothing but idyllic weather in something that looks like most of europe in the spring, sure, you'll be fine with nature's bounty there for the taking. In a desert waste, trying to get past blistering heat and searing cold every day? Good luck, buddy.

[Shinoskay]

Here's the thing about that DC10. It's the starting DC before any circumstance modifiers are applied. There's also the fact that spotting most natural hazards before bumbling into them starts at DC15. Inclement weather and various forms of exposure can really mess you up pretty bad; imposing penalties on even the simple "find food and water" checks along with damage and/or fatigue.

If you're dealing with nothing but idyllic weather in something that looks like most of europe in the spring, sure, you'll be fine with nature's bounty there for the taking. In a desert waste, trying to get past blistering heat and searing cold every day? Good luck, buddy.

Ya, it seemed people were taking their creative liberty for an easy circumstance and easy city out for granted... thats why I felt maybe I should suggest we assume more harsh circumstances. more fun that way.



Calthropstu




Sure it is easier to find bones, stones, and wood; however, you haven't gotten away from the fact that you still need 100gp worth of materials to be used in the processing of said bones, stones, and wood to make them into each spell. Plus now you potentially have to lug around quite a bit of weight for your caveman spellbook which isn't good for a character with str as a dump stat...

The 100gp per 1st level spell is achieved by gathering the 100gp worth of components.


Actually, there are rules for crafting. 100gp of ink is a LOT of ink... but 100gp is the cost to write each page of spell in a standard spell book. The key here is the cost is more representative of cumulative effort... think crafting. how long does it take to craft a bundle of 20 arrows? it's 1 gp in store but 3 silver and 4 copper (or 2 if you are rounding down and not up, like raw says) to craft. with a dc 12 x roll result = progress in silver / 7 = crafting speed (because anyone who spends a week crafting a single bundle of basic arrows is insane). It's not just material cost. So you only need an hour to cover that 3.4 (because you cant only craft for 10 minutes as a general rule). thats all it takes. the higher your skill, the faster you craft. and they even have mechanics for crafting faster, add +10 to the dc to get a higher silver result value to thus hit the objective amount in less time.

So, what this means is the gp cost isnt just material cost. It's also refinement and effort.
The book also specifically says for token spells, you can use one pouch stone (like a slingshot stone) for one spell. it's described in the same area as tattoo spell books. Meaning, no, you dont really have to worry about encumbrance for tokens and in the wilds if there are sufficient stone and wood then you shouldnt have to worry about material either (though, gm call, they may want to see effort made to find good material before you craft the material).

Also also, you can make ink out of flower petals, or leafs. So crafting ink for a spell book is just a matter of refining the material into ink and then further refining it into fine ink (since writing spells in spell books specifically calls for fine ink... but im sure you can take the gp value from refining ink and apply that to part of you 100gp cost.

it's true that survival tends to get glossed over quite often, but most aspects of it do indeed have rules and mechanics.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Actually, there are rules for crafting. 100gp of ink is a LOT of ink... but 100gp is the cost to write each page of spell in a standard spell book. The key here is the cost is more representative of cumulative effort... think crafting. how long does it take to craft a bundle of 20 arrows? it's 1 gp in store but 3 silver and 4 copper (or 2 if you are rounding down and not up, like raw says) to craft. with a dc 12 x roll result = progress in silver / 7 = crafting speed (because anyone who spends a week crafting a single bundle of basic arrows is insane). It's not just material cost. So you only need an hour to cover that 3.4 (because you cant only craft for 10 minutes as a general rule). thats all it takes. the higher your skill, the faster you craft. and they even have mechanics for crafting faster, add +10 to the dc to get a higher silver result value to thus hit the objective amount in less time.

So, what this means is the gp cost isnt just material cost. It's also refinement and effort.
The book also specifically says for token spells, you can use one pouch stone (like a slingshot stone) for one spell. it's described in the same area as tattoo spell books. Meaning, no, you dont really have to worry about encumbrance for tokens and in the wilds if there are sufficient stone and wood then you shouldnt have to worry about material either (though, gm call, they may want to see effort made to find good material before you craft the material).

Also also, you can make ink out of flower petals, or leafs. So crafting ink for a spell book is just a matter of refining the material into ink and then further refining it into fine ink (since writing spells in spell books specifically calls for fine ink... but im sure you can take the gp value from refining ink and apply that to part of you 100gp cost.

it's true that survival tends to get glossed over quite often, but most aspects of it do indeed have rules and mechanics.

That reminds me. Crafting for a day... takes a day. Hope you can reliably make that dc 12 to feed two people at a time so you can alternate days... and that the weather and food aren't a combination that causes rapid spoiling and might necessitate either upping that to 14+, making a fort vs disease, or both.

[Maat Mons]

If A DM pitched this idea to me, I think this is more or less what I'd submit as a character.




Race

Arctic: Template from Dragon magazine that gives +2 Con and -2 Cha. Also gives +2 racial bonus to Survival (well, it says Wilderness Lore, but...) and a +/-1 on saves vs cold/fire.
Sun Elf: Elven subrace with -2 Con and +2 Int instead of the standard elven ability score adjustments.

Class

Eidetic Wizard: ACF from Dragon magazine that eliminates my reliance on a spellbook, sort of. Removes my familiar and Scribe Scroll feat.
Elven Generalist: ACF that gives a bonus spell of the highest level I can cast, but doesn't require me to give up any schools. Also gives me extra spells in my "spellbook."
Wizard: That class we all know and love.

Feats

Aereni Focus (Survival): Elf-only feat that gives you a chosen skill as a class skill, and also gives you a +3 bonus to that skill.
Collegiate Wizard: Feat that gives extra spells in my "spellbook."
Eschew Materials: Feat that duplicates a spell-component pouch.

Flaws

Gullible: Flaw from Dragon mag that gives -4 Sense Motive and -2 saves vs illusion/enchantment.
Individualist: Flaw from Dragon mag that gives penalties when using weapons and armor I didn't craft myself.


Spells

Ancient Knowledge: A +5 on important Knowledge checks... as soon as I find a dead elephant/mammoth. Or, I guess walruses and narwhals count as having ivory too.
Color Spray: You can't play a Wizard without Color Spray. It's a law.
Create Trap: Take that small game animals.
Endure Elements: I mean, duh.
Expeditious Retreat: Oh yeah. I'm planning to do lots of running.
Locate City: Maybe some day. Maybe some day.
Locate Water: Not needed in the winter. But it won't always be winter.
Magecraft: A +5 for the many craft checks I'll be making. Arrows don't grow on trees... except the shaft part.
Mount: A beast of burden. And a longer-lasting way to get away from places quickly.
Sleep: The lion sleeps tonight. I hope.
Sticky Floor: Keep things in place so I can plink at them with my longbow.





This differs from the theme of the thread a little though. I didn't really build this to be a character trapped in the wilderness trying to escape. I built it to be a character who lives in the wilderness.

That's kind of why I'm setting myself up to learn more than 100 spells over my 20-level career without the need of human contact.

What's really weird is how my character suddenly lost all his self-crafted equipment right at the start of this challenge. Maybe he fell in a river?

[rel]

The issue with trying to use crafting is that the rules as written are designed primarily to prevent the players from making money by weaving baskets, not to allow a PC to make something in an emergency.

[Calthropstu]

The issue with trying to use crafting is that the rules as written are designed primarily to prevent the players from making money by weaving baskets, not to allow a PC to make something in an emergency.

Fair point. It's a bit troublesome, and crafting a spellbook would be difficult too. Having watched bookworm, the trouble she went throigh to make paper is about what I would expect from trying to craft it from scratch in the wilderness.

[Shinoskay]

That reminds me. Crafting for a day... takes a day. Hope you can reliably make that dc 12 to feed two people at a time so you can alternate days... and that the weather and food aren't a combination that causes rapid spoiling and might necessitate either upping that to 14+, making a fort vs disease, or both.

I do have to append myself a little.

I was talking with pathfinder rules in mind. dnd 3.5 is only a little off.

Progress by the Day

You can make checks by the day instead of by the week. In this case your progress (check result × DC) is in copper pieces instead of silver pieces.

instead of /7, you basically /10.
everything else is basically the same though.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I do have to append myself a little.

I was talking with pathfinder rules in mind. dnd 3.5 is only a little off.

Progress by the Day

You can make checks by the day instead of by the week. In this case your progress (check result × DC) is in copper pieces instead of silver pieces.

instead of /7, you basically /10.
everything else is basically the same though.

I was presuming by the day crafting. On days you craft, you still have to eat. Sitting in one place crafting for a day rather precludes using that day for anything else, like foraging for food.

[Shinoskay]

Do you know how crafting works?

The standard is 8 hours, magic crafting is hard capped at hours with 'mental exhaustion' presented as justification.

however, you could absolutely just spend all day doing mundane crafts, especially with a ring of sustenance. Your statement, perhaps, was more snark than an actual statement? It's unclear.

however, this is off topic now.

I was explaining what 100gp per spell level likely entailed, as most crafting is more about time and effort then actually material cost.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Do you know how crafting works?

The standard is 8 hours, magic crafting is hard capped at hours with 'mental exhaustion' presented as justification.

however, you could absolutely just spend all day doing mundane crafts, especially with a ring of sustenance. Your statement, perhaps, was more snark than an actual statement? It's unclear.

however, this is off topic now.

I was explaining what 100gp per spell level likely entailed, as most crafting is more about time and effort then actually material cost.

In the given scenario, you don't have a ring of sustenance. I do know how crafting works. I also know how survival works. You can't use both skills on the same day. Maybe you could work something out with profession (farmer) but not survival. You can only get one day worth of work out of one day.

[liquidformat]

Do you know how crafting works?

The standard is 8 hours, magic crafting is hard capped at hours with 'mental exhaustion' presented as justification.

however, you could absolutely just spend all day doing mundane crafts, especially with a ring of sustenance. Your statement, perhaps, was more snark than an actual statement? It's unclear.

however, this is off topic now.

I was explaining what 100gp per spell level likely entailed, as most crafting is more about time and effort then actually material cost.

No I think they have a valid point, you are restricted to how much you can get done assuming your entire productive day was spent. Survival is rather ambiguous on the length of time it takes to gather food, but it is at the least measured in hours and possibly it is assumed you are spending your entire day especially if you are untrained.

So it is reasonable to assume that you can either craft during a day or forage for food but not craft and forage for food.

I personally would think you can sometimes do both in a single day but would assume it depends on what you are trying to craft. Something pretty low impact like carving wood could reasonably done in the same day but more complicated jobs like building a shelter or creating a spell talisman would need to take an entire day and not allow you to forage for food.

[Maat Mons]

I've made an effort to estimate how long it takes my LotMS Elf to craft a new longbow.

By taking 10, he'll get 24 on each Craft check. That 26 days if crafting by the day, or 3 weeks if crafting by the week. Unless he takes the option to add +10 to the DC. Then it's 14 days or 2 weeks, which actually winds up being the same between the checks-per-day and checks-per-week methods.

On Survival, he gets 20 by taking 10. That's 6 person-days worth of food. Annoyingly, just one person-day short of stockpiling enough to to spend a full week crafting. Unless you use Faeruninan metric weeks, of course. Then it comes up much shorter.

So I'm looking at up to a month before I get a good hunting bow.

I guess I'll have to start with a shortbow.

At least it should only take a day to craft a bundle of arrows, probably. I can't actually find a DC for that one.

[Vizzerdrix]

I've made an effort to estimate how long it takes my LotMS Elf to craft a new longbow.

By taking 10, he'll get 24 on each Craft check. That 26 days if crafting by the day, or 3 weeks if crafting by the week. Unless he takes the option to add +10 to the DC. Then it's 14 days or 2 weeks, which actually winds up being the same between the checks-per-day and checks-per-week methods.

And this is why I hate crafting in D&D. The times are way, way off.

It would be a better use of time to just craft a sling, or an atl atl( oh wait, I forgot a notched stick is "EXOTIC" smh)

[Kelb_Panthera]

And this is why I hate crafting in D&D. The times are way, way off.

It would be a better use of time to just craft a sling, or an atl atl( oh wait, I forgot a notched stick is "EXOTIC" smh)

Right? No way a stave suitable for a longbow cures anything like as quick as a month, not even in summer. Might be a little fast for one made entirely from animal products even. Not that I've ever heard of a longbow that wasn't made with cured wood of some kind. Even a japanese longbow is made from woody bamboo that has to cure.

Sarcasm aside, the time added by certain exotic materials is pretty ridiculous. A suit of plate already takes way longer than it should. Making it out of mithral makes it a process of years at the minimum capability and something like glassteel... there's a reason humans don't work with such things much.

Houserule: base crafting time on the price of the item made with standard materials and just increase the cost of supplies proportional to the special materials. It can still be a tad long, even considering only simple handtools being available, but it doesn't get as insane as it does by default with high-value materials that were priced for meta reasons.

[Shinoskay]

No I think they have a valid point, you are restricted to how much you can get done assuming your entire productive day was spent. Survival is rather ambiguous on the length of time it takes to gather food, but it is at the least measured in hours and possibly it is assumed you are spending your entire day especially if you are untrained.

So it is reasonable to assume that you can either craft during a day or forage for food but not craft and forage for food.

I personally would think you can sometimes do both in a single day but would assume it depends on what you are trying to craft. Something pretty low impact like carving wood could reasonably done in the same day but more complicated jobs like building a shelter or creating a spell talisman would need to take an entire day and not allow you to forage for food.

It doesnt matter if they are right, it's irrelevant. I wasnt saying a person can craft and do survival rolls at the same time, I already explained what I was detailing.

it's like they are standing right next to me yelling something like {scrubbed} when I am talking all the ways I love a girl. like, cool, ok.

Anyways, it's a simple thing to address, assuming a wizard can find a way to manage it... survive until you have a surplus, like when your survival check gives you enough food for two people. There's also a bit of a shinanigan, say you kill something like a deer or a pig. You can use the wizard spell preserve organ on one if it's more sizable organs and keep that as a meal for the next day.

I'm not oppose to people talking about effective ways to handle crafting though, thats an important aspect of this scenario so no complaints on that end... just, wierd having someone be snarky at me about something I wasnt even talking about.

As a point of note, most rules say you can survive for a few days without food before you need to make fort checks to determine effects going forward. Most chars would probably make it 4 or 5 days before hitting a penalty and then probably just over a week before dying.

water, however, is the more important thing. usually you dehydrate after a day, maybe 2 or 3 depending on circumstances and food type.

Precocious apprentice for hydrate immediately clears up your water issues, once a day eliminate dehydration? nice, 2 days and then cast one spell and good?

you could, theoretically, ration up at eating every other day and using the hydrate spell when you eat and vuala. Time for crafting.

I agree on the issues of time for crafting, pathfinder has some great mechanics to fix this but the scenario is in dnd 3.5
but this isnt a gripe thread.

[Skysaber]

Well, my best option, assuming that spells are handled via one of the spellbook replacements already discussed, is to take the first level spell Charm Person, find some people, and make friends.

Fallback from that is to take a flaw to get Precocious Apprentice, and grab the second level spell Clothier's Closet. Then, use my 1st level slot to cast Blood Money (assuming PF material is allowed) to take a hit to Str to get the material component needed for it.

The Str hit I can recover by sleeping one night. Now I have 100gp of clothes, and the Scribe Scroll feat. Magic item creation rules only demand my raw materials have a certain value. So I can now write out scrolls on the backs of vests and shirts while I look for people.

And old leather boots have been boiled up and eaten fairly often through history when people got hungry.

Or, since High Fashion tends to get weird I can see myself making a pair of pants entirely out of bacon and frying it up when I get hungry. Do a search for edible clothing and you'll find dresses made of bread, meat, candy, or what have you. Since those are legitimately worn and sold as clothes, I think I've got a fair chance at a decent diet - considering that there is literally a hamburger that is also a shoe, a purse made out of broccoli, and a shirt made out of bananas, a magnificent ball gown made entirely out of differently frosted cupcakes...

Edit: Just read that "You don't know where civilization is" amendment. Well, in that case, always head downstream. Find the coasts, you'll find civilization if there is any. And with a Mount spell and Locate City, it would not take too long, assuming good weather.

Just add winter survival gear to the clothes I'll be making. Tents and bedrolls ought to be possible via adapting suitable clothes.

And since the ritual to summon your familiar only requires you to sacrifice 100gp worth of unspecified 'materials', I could go Harry Potter and get myself a snowy owl to do scouting (so I don't run into unsuitable encounters, bad geography, cliffs, towns of unfriendly races, etc).

[Kelb_Panthera]

It doesnt matter if they are right, it's irrelevant. I wasnt saying a person can craft and do survival rolls at the same time, I already explained what I was detailing.

it's like they are standing right next to me yelling something like jesus loves us all when I am talking all the ways I love a girl. like, cool, ok.

Bruh. Your response to me that started the conversation doesn't make sense unless you were contesting my comment about a day of crafting vs a day of foraging both requiring your limited time before being penalized. It doesn't make -much- sense even then but if that's not what you were getting at then I don't know why you addressed my comment at all?

So before you start spouting off about someone talking past you, maybe clarify what you meant by this:


I do have to append myself a little.

I was talking with pathfinder rules in mind. dnd 3.5 is only a little off.

Progress by the Day

You can make checks by the day instead of by the week. In this case your progress (check result × DC) is in copper pieces instead of silver pieces.

instead of /7, you basically /10.
everything else is basically the same though.

The rules are the same between both systems so this doesn't really address my point at all, which is why I clarified that I was presuming by the day crafting.

So what the hell are you on about?

[Shinoskay]

Bruh. Your response to me that started the conversation doesn't make sense unless you were contesting my comment about a day of crafting vs a day of foraging both requiring your limited time before being penalized. It doesn't make -much- sense even then but if that's not what you were getting at then I don't know why you addressed my comment at all?

So before you start spouting off about someone talking past you, maybe clarify what you meant by this:



The rules are the same between both systems so this doesn't really address my point at all, which is why I clarified that I was presuming by the day crafting.

So what the hell are you on about?

{scrubbed}

[Kelb_Panthera]

{scrub the post, scrub the quote}

Nevermind. Been struck too many times for defending myself here.

[Shinoskay]

and now my threads pretty much dead. thank you everyone who has participated so far.

{scrubbed}

[Shinoskay]

and now my threads pretty much dead. thank you everyone who has participated so far.

{scrubbed}

I dont like that I'm being made to look like im the one that blew up here, that im the one that got dramatic and unstable or even unreasonable.

[H_H_F_F]

Dude, stop.

[Shinoskay]

Dude, stop.

I mean, thank you?
this is literally what I did.... except I said please.... and I got dinged but you didnt. this proves my whole damn point. like, all of it.

so, really, thank you.