Scaled Horror

[loky1109]

Then I picked prefix "optimization", I was deceiving. Nobody can optimize this PrC. )))
However, I'll try.
This PrC have very interesting fluff and unfortunately very stupid mechanical embodiment. Still and Silent spells plus ranger's cast? Am I missing something?

I want build some about Scrag/Dragon Shaman (Green or Black) X/Scaled Horror X .

Apart from build recommendation I am ready getting reasonable homerule suggestions. I am DM, so I have some room for manoeuvre. )

[Zaq]

You're really not missing anything. Let's go through one at a time.

1st: Improved grab is legitimately nice. Keen scent is mostly a flavor ribbon unless you're mostly or entirely aquatic, but okay, cool.
2nd: Freedom of movement all day every day as an Ex ability for the purposes of fighting underwater. That helps a lot if you're going to be doing anything at all underwater, so I think this level is worth taking.
3rd: lol dead level
4th: Meh, DR 2/— isn't very impressive at a minimum ECL of 9. This isn't a breakpoint.
5th: Spring Attack as a bonus feat? Well, it's nice to avoid two crappy feat prereqs, but by the strictest RAW, it's not actually usable because it doesn't say that you can use it without those prereqs. That said, I think RAI is pretty clear that you just get it, and that's... well, I suppose there's some niche utility, though considering that the last breakpoint was three levels ago, you could just take a fighter dip and get most of the same benefit. This is the last breakpoint, in my book.
6th: lol dead level
7th: I will agree that Silent Spell is a baffling choice. I don't get it. I guess it makes them stealthier? Though they really don't have the slots to be increasing spell level.
8th: Still... Spell? I got nothing, boss. Bizarre.
9th: lol dead level
10th: Um, okay, DR 4/— is pretty dang forgettable by now.

So to me it seems that the optimal number of levels to take is two. You could maybe make an argument for five if you had some difficulty qualifying for Spring Attack because of stats or something, but that's expensive anyway, and it's not like Spring Attack is actually very good in its own right. (Plus, most of the cool things that use Spring Attack as a prereq also restate the Dodge/Mobility prereqs, so there's a chance that this wouldn't let you sneak into cool toys.)

Now, one thing that might be somewhat interesting with this is advancing the casting with another PrC, since it seems like this gets ranger spell advancement just a hair faster than an actual ranger. This still isn't a crazy powerful move, but it's probably better than just sticking with scaled horror itself after you get the fun frontloaded stuff...

The good thing about scaled horror is that the prereqs are pretty easy as long as you meet the racial criteria. No feats to burn, and the skill prereqs are pretty gentle overall. I like that. So at least it doesn't have a massive opportunity cost to get in, grab the good stuff, and move on with your career.

[Rebel7284]

If you qualify for the class with 4 levels of ranger or Paladin (+1 something else), you can take Sword of the Arcane Order and maybe use your Scaled Horror spell slots to cast Wizard spells which... is still terrible but is certainly a big power boost.

[Zarvistic]

You mention house rules suggestions.. what about dropping the 5 bab requirement? Pretty decent if one can enter at level 3

[loky1109]

You mention house rules suggestions.. what about dropping the 5 bab requirement? Pretty decent if one can enter at level 3

I have no problems with requirements.
All my problems are with PrC itself. Dead levels, stupid metamagic feats, spell list a little out of thematic.


5th: Spring Attack as a bonus feat? Well, it's nice to avoid two crappy feat prereqs, but by the strictest RAW, it's not actually usable because it doesn't say that you can use it without those prereqs. That said, I think RAI is pretty clear that you just get it, and that's... well, I suppose there's some niche utility, though considering that the last breakpoint was three levels ago, you could just take a fighter dip and get most of the same benefit. This is the last breakpoint, in my book.

About Spring Attack. Can I combine it with Improved grab? Grab enemy and drag him underwater.

[Anthrowhale]

About Spring Attack. Can I combine it with Improved grab? Grab enemy and drag him underwater.
Yes---see last sentence here (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#improvedGrab).

You might also benefit from Multigrab+Greater Multigrab.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Optimize by dropping out at level 2 or not taking it at all. The last 8 levels might as well be dead levels if it weren't for the ranger casting, and you'd be way better off taking either actual ranger (with ACFs) or PrC ranger than to take them.

[Rebel7284]

Paladin 4/Crusader 1/Ruby Knight Vindicator 1/Scaled Horror 1/RKV +9/X4

Same Sword of the Arcane Order idea I mentioned before, but now optimized by taking less levels in Scaled Horror

[daremetoidareyo]

Scaled horror gets ranger casting at an advanced rate, consider entering as a duskblade, dipping this for 3 levels and then going geomancer.

[Rebel7284]

Scaled horror gets ranger casting at an advanced rate, consider entering as a duskblade, dipping this for 3 levels and then going geomancer.

Why Geomancer specifically? Duskblades can channel any spell without having to take Geomancer. Unless Geomancer + Battle Blessing work in your games, I don't see a reason to use that class.

[Darg]

Variant class: predator

ACFs: Aquatic Ranger, Champion of the Wild, and Distracting Attack

Sub levels: Moonwarded Ranger

Take advantage of your scaled horroryness. Aquatic Ranger improves your aquatic capabilities, champion of the wild gives you a bonus feat, and distracting attack gives up the worthless animal companion for helping your allies.

Predator gets you fast movement and wild shape without being removed by the substitution levels.

Moonwarded Ranger gets you a bonus to AC and damage reduction that allows all sources of damage reduction of the same type to stack.