Fun with the DMG class creator

[LibraryOgre]

First, the Game Breaker

Human 0
Rogue ThAC0: -1 (-1)
Classed Saving Throws 0 (-1)
d6 HD +0.75 (-.25)
Limited AC Armor -0.5 (-.75)
"One Class" weapons -1 (-1.75) (I'd say the druid list qualifies, but you can get some good mileage out of Piercing or Bludgeoning; both have solid Ranged options)
+1 HP after 9th +0.5 (-1.25)
3 proficiency slots +0.75 (-.5)
Druid Shapechange +3 (2.5)
Must be neutral -1 (1.5)
Cannot Keep more Treasure than can carry -0.5 (1)
Cannot own more than 6 magical items -1 (0)

Now, I have a character who can shapechange like a druid from 1st level (the ability is not delayed). They're not a great fighter, but they can use ranged weapons. They can't have a lot of treasure or magic, but since they can shapechange from the get go, that matters less... especially since they will be infinite level, instantly, since (x)*0 = 0. And my bad weapon choices don't hurt me too much, since I can just turn into a crocodile and eat you.



Next, the distilled druid. With this one, and the subsequent ones, I'm not trying to break the game, per se, just make very playable characters who are extremely cheap in the system.

Human 0
Rogue ThAC0 -1 (-1)
Classed Saving Throws 0 (-1)
d6 HD +.75 (-.25)
Limited AC armor -0.5 (-0.75) (we'll say no more than Hide and Wooden shields; going for a druidy theme)
Limited Weapons -1.5 (-2.25): Club, Dagger, Sling, Knife
2 HP/level after 9th +1 (-1.25)
1 Proficiency at level 1 +.25 (-1)
Druid Shapechange +3 (2)
Cast Animal and Plant priest spells +4 (6)
Must be Neutral -1 (5)
Cannot Keep more Treasure than can carry -0.5 (4.5)
Has Ethos that must be obeyed -1 (3.5) (druidy)
Cannot own more than 6 magical items -1 (2.5)

So, 2nd level at 500 XP; 9th level at 70,000. New level every 75,000 after that. Advances WAY faster than anyone. Shapechange and spellcasting from 1st level. Two spheres of spells, yes, but Animal and Plant mean some powerful options (Goodberry, at level 3... just 1000 XP... covers healing and food). Shapechange also provides self-healing. They don't learn many weapons or have many armor options, but they can change into animal forms for attack, defense, scouting, and mobility. If NWPs are in use, they still have the ones from Intelligence, and from level up.

Attribute priorities for this character will be Wisdom and Constitution (so they have decent HP and get bonus spells, or, at least, avoid spell failure). Intelligence and Charisma are next. Strength and Dex can be pretty low, since they can shapechange. At 1st level, they can have Animal Friendship in action to add to their beefiness.



The Transfigurist... a minor wizard focused on Alteration

Human 0
Rogue ThAC0 -1 (-1)
Classed Saving Throws 0 (-1)
d6 HD +.75 (-.25)
No armor -1 (-1.25)
Limited Weapons -1.5 (-2.5): Quarterstaff, Dagger, Sling, Knife
1 HP/level after 9th +0.5 (-2)
1 Proficiency at level 1 +.25 (-1.75)
Cast Alteration spells +3 (1.25)
Use Wizard Items +1 (2.25)

Faster than my last class. Intelligence 1st, then Constitution. Wants a bit more Dex than the druidy one (ranged weapons, AC), but the ability to use Wizard items really opens it up ("Wand of Fireballs coming up!"). No moral or ethical restrictions on this one. Per the PH, this wizard gets access to Lesser Divination ("The spells of [lesser divination], vital to the functioning of a wizard, are available to all wizards."), meaning they can get Read Magic.



The Necromancer's Necromancer

Human 0
Rogue ThAC0 -1 (-1)
Classed Saving Throw 0 (-1)
d8 HD 1 (0)
No armor -1 (-1)
Limited Weapons -1.5 (-2.5)
1HP/level after 9th +0.5 (-2)
Single Sphere Priest (Necromancy) +2 (0)
Single School Mage (Necromancy) +3 (3)
Priest and Wizard items +2 (5)
Must be Neutral -1 (4)
Must donate 10% of all treasure -.5 (3.5)
Cannot associate with Paladins -1 (2.5)

So, a neutral necromancer. Mage and Priest spells and magic items (again, Lesser Divination, if you count them as a wizard). No initial weapons skills, and can't learn many, or wear armor (mage spells, after all). Adding 1 WP wouldn't put them up too high, if you insist on having them. Heck, toss in 1 WP and Turn (or, better yet, Command) Undead and they're still pretty awesome, hitting 2nd level at 1100 XP.

[Cluedrew]

With this one, and the subsequent ones, I'm not trying to break the game, per se, just make very playable characters who are extremely cheap in the system.Oh shoot, I see to have misplaced my 2nd edition DMG (I have never owned one). What is cheap? I understand that these are multiplers but what are multiplers on the regular classes?

[the_david]

I'm guessing XP. If you use less points to build your class you'll need less xp to level up.

[Telok]

Ah yes. That was a fun one. It started with an admonition to not try to create a super class as that would take so much xp to level up that regular classes would blast past it in power. Naturally I immedately did the opposite.

The xp to level chart was 200xp to 2 and 58kxp to 10, with another level at every additional 30kxp. The PH rogue clocked in at about x6 and fighters at x10.

Human only, rogue thaco, fighter saves, 1d4 hp, light armor, limited weapons, +2 hp/level at 10+, neutral (or good) alignment, tithe 10%, 10 magic item max, no CE allies, gives you a -4.5 multiplier. Since negative and zero multipliers are silly you want a 0.25 multiplier to hit level 2 at 50xp (check with the DM about how they're doing level up, training, excess xp, as you may want to just hit a 3 or 4 multiplier) and 10 at 14,500xp when other classes were hitting 5th.

So, one weapon proficiency (and another every 6 levels), two nwps (and another every 4 or 5 levels), and 4 multiplier points worth is... one wizard magic school plus can use, say, priest only magic items? Or two spheres of priest spells. Or healing/LoH as a paladin plus a priest sphere. Or open locks, find traps, read languages, hear noise, and backstab. Or hit dice to d8, all armor, slashing weapons, L10+ hp to +3, one sphere of priest spells, and reduce the magic item limit to max 6. If you want to be a demihuman add an ethos/code of conduct.

If you're going all the way to a multiplier of x3 then you can drop a nwp and go with wizard alteration spells, priest elemental spells, and d10 hit dice. If the DM is starting you off with a set amount of xp, like 12,000 or something, go ahead and have two levels in fighter (if you have the stats to multiclass) and let your custom speed-run class have no armor or weapons so you can squeeze in a few other features. Really, F2 for the weapons and armor and you're still 10kxp or level 9 in the speed-run class.

Definitely had a reason to be a DM only thing.

[Lord Torath]

Oh shoot, I see to have misplaced my 2nd edition DMG (I have never owned one). What is cheap? I understand that these are multiplers but what are multiplers on the regular classes?For comparison, the XP required to hit 2nd level for the standard classes:
Bard/Thief: 1250
Cleric: 1500
Druid: 2000
Fighter: 2000
Psionicist: 2200
Ranger/Paladin: 2250
Mage: 2500

[LibraryOgre]

Oh shoot, I see to have misplaced my 2nd edition DMG (I have never owned one). What is cheap? I understand that these are multiplers but what are multiplers on the regular classes?


For comparison, the XP required to hit 2nd level for the standard classes:
Bard/Thief: 1250
Cleric: 1500
Druid: 2000
Fighter: 2000
Psionicist: 2200
Ranger/Paladin: 2250
Mage: 2500

These would correspond to
Bard/Thief 6.25
Cleric 7.5
Druid/Fighter 10
Psionicist 11
Ranger/Paladin 11.25
Mage: 12.5

The system in the DMG states that these are not achievable by the system, even if you strip out the discount for human characters (humans had a multiplier of 0; non-humans had a multiplier of 1).

The system, as it is written, doesn't have a lot of nuance, leaves out a great deal, and doesn't deal well with abilities not on the chart, lumping them all under "Other", which is +3... about the same as shapechanging like a druid, or being able to cast 1 school of spells.

[Corvus]

Now, I have a character who can shapechange like a druid from 1st level (the ability is not delayed). They're not a great fighter, but they can use ranged weapons. They can't have a lot of treasure or magic, but since they can shapechange from the get go, that matters less... especially since they will be infinite level, instantly, since (x)*0 = 0. And my bad weapon choices don't hurt me too much, since I can just turn into a crocodile and eat you.



From memory shapeshifting is useless when you run into any creature that needs magical weapons to hit. Lycanthropes, golems, plenty of undead and others are going to cause problems. And I don't recall their being any spells in 2e like in 3e that gave natural weapons magic abilities.

[Lord Torath]

From memory shapeshifting is useless when you run into any creature that needs magical weapons to hit. Lycanthropes, golems, plenty of undead and others are going to cause problems. And I don't recall their being any spells in 2e like in 3e that gave natural weapons magic abilities.Spell Research to the rescue! :smallbiggrin:

[LibraryOgre]

From memory shapeshifting is useless when you run into any creature that needs magical weapons to hit. Lycanthropes, golems, plenty of undead and others are going to cause problems. And I don't recall their being any spells in 2e like in 3e that gave natural weapons magic abilities.

Not quite.

Depending on your HD, you can hit creatures that require magical weapons with natural weapons so, while there isn't a spell (there might be in Priest's Spell Compendium, but, sweet monkey, I am not searching those three volumes for it), there is the natural ability.

Plus, this character has a number of other options. Shapechanging doesn't need to be about power. They can have a magical weapon in each hand when they shift, and it is there when they come back. They have a few fun spells for hitting things that need magical weapons, like Shillelagh, a 1st level Plant spell, or Spike Growth, which comes online with 3rd level spells.

[Lord Torath]

Also, there's always unarmed combat. Shapeshift into a gorilla and pin the monster to the ground so your magic-weapon-equipped buddies can do him in.

[Lapak]

Also, there's always unarmed combat. Shapeshift into a gorilla and pin the monster to the ground so your magic-weapon-equipped buddies can do him in.
The 2e rules for pinning an opponent clearly only work if you're shapeshifted into a bear. The section isn't labeled 'overgorillaing,' after all.