Dual class progression

[Helliquin]

DM in new campaign has advised we will be starting level 3, and roll 12 D20 pick highest 6, racial bonuses can go over 20...

I rolled 20, 20, 18, 15, 15, 14

However most interesting alteration - we will be able to choose two classes, leveling both at the same time, getting benefits from both classes (only 1 ASI). No further multi classing is available.

Ie: ranger/monk, bard/barbarian, warlock/paladin

Obviously this opens up some unique opportunities for character development.

Any thoughts as to how to best handle this?

[Kylar0990]

DM in new campaign has advised we will be starting level 3, and roll 12 D20 pick highest 6, racial bonuses can go over 20...

I rolled 20, 20, 18, 15, 15, 14

However most interesting alteration - we will be able to choose two classes, leveling both at the same time, getting benefits from both classes (only 1 ASI). No further multi classing is available.

Ie: ranger/monk, bard/barbarian, warlock/paladin

Obviously this opens up some unique opportunities for character development.

Any thoughts as to how to best handle this?

Do both classes advance at the same time?

If you choose a caster class and either a half caster or none casting second class how do your spell slots progress?

[Doug Lampert]

I'd consider Fighter to get the extra two ASI. You don't really need them for attributes, but you can find a use for lots of feats. Monk/Battlemaster Fighter might be interesting. Monk bonus action attacks will stack with fighter extra attacks. "Dump" strength (is a score of 14 really a dump) and go Dex/Wisdom.

If spell slots stack, then I'd have real trouble resisting sorcerer and another full caster (probably a cleric with heavy armor from his domain).

If spell slots don't stack, then I'd seriously consider warlock and either paladin or sorcerer. Those are strong as multiclasses, and would be far stronger in this system. Alternately, fighter or rogue with wizard or bard. (Rogue with a bard subclass that gives extra attack, then get all the skills and expertise in most of them).

How do save proficiencies work? If you get all proficiencies for both classes then that's a reason to pick two classes with different save proficiencies.

What are the other players taking? You may need to cover a party weakness.

[Chugger]

Paladin and Sorcerer is insanely powerful. You'd be able to melee and smite a lot - and then cast spells when that makes sense. If you go divine soul sorc, you'd have access to some excellent cleric spells too - and guidance cantrip.

Abj Wiz and Fighter would be insane. You'd have stupid-high hitpoints and AC from Fighter and with the ward, lots of hit points. Fighter gives action surge, so once every short rest you can surge - and cast two spells in a turn if you want. Also use fighter to get extra feats.

An evo Wiz and Sorc combo would be a powerful blaster. If badguys swarm the party, you can fireball the party but sculpt it so no characters are hurt. If the badguys have casters, use subtle from sorc so they can't counterspell you. When they cast, do the same w/ your counterspell,and they can't counter your counterspell.

If you go for an archer w/ sharpshooter or a meleer w/ GWM feat, consider making one class a BM fighter. With Precision you can add 1d8 after a to hit roll and convert many misses into hits - the -5 from these feats is a pain and needs to be mitigated to make such builds work. Making the second class something that has bless so you can self buff with bless would be very good maybe.

[Dalinar]

It's a meme build (usually seen as very powerful, though), but Coffeelock is possible at level 3 under this system. Tomelock, switch out your invocation so you don't have to sleep, and you already have some sorcery points from the Sorcerer side.

Depending on how spell slots work, any two casters that share a casting stat will be really powerful, to be perfectly honest. Heck, with two nat 20s from your stat generation method, any two casters period is going to be really powerful (although you'd sacrifice a little CON or DEX that way). Abjurer/Armorer is likely an extremely strong tank, as would be Paladin-of-choice/Clockwork Soul/Hexblade in whatever combination.

If you can't stack spell slots from multiple casters, I'd think Abjurer/Cavalier might make a nice tank, or Rogue/Bard (subclasses of choice) would make a ridiculous utility choice.

For an incredible face build, Eloquence Bard/Warlock-of-choice, and get the at-will Disguise Self and Deception/Persuasion invocations. At level three, you have +6 CHA with racial ASIs breaking the cap, expertise in Deception and Persuasion, and you cannot roll less than 10 on your check for both, meaning your bare minimum check for either of those is a 20 already, and you know Suggestion on top of that. In combat, your spell save DC is 16, and you already have powerful save-or-sucks like Hold Person, with Hypnotic Pattern coming online in two more levels. Your DM might hate you, to be honest.

Let us know how it goes, whatever you do!

[HPisBS]

How do save proficiencies work? If you get all proficiencies for both classes then that's a reason to pick two classes with different save proficiencies.

Something I'd otherwise never really consider is Barbarian Rogue (just cuz Barbarian isn't my thing). Especially if you'd get Str & Con saves from Barb, and Dex & Int saves from Rogue.

Either way, OP, this is a chance to get 22 Dex, 20 Str, and 20 Con as soon as you get your 1st lvl up – which would put you at a 23 AC with a shield. Reckless attack would provide advantage for your sneak attacks, and there wouldn't be any spells for rage to get in the way of (unless you pick them up from a subclass or something). Combine with Elven Accuracy for super advantage and you could roll lots of damage dice pretty often. 22 Dex with Rogue means that when your rages run out, you could always pull out a bow and sneak attack that way, since you wouldn't be limited to melee like a standard Barb.


Alternatively, you could go Monk / Druid, push Wis to 22, and stun everything with crazy high DCs as a dire wolf while concentrating on Healing Spirit, Spike Growth, or whatever. All while benefiting from unarmored defense.

[LumenPlacidum]

Reckless attack would provide advantage for your sneak attacks, and there wouldn't be any spells for rage to get in the way of (unless you pick them up from a subclass or something). Combine with Elven Accuracy for super advantage and you could roll lots of damage dice pretty often.

I think to try combining these all the time... but Reckless Attack and Elven Accuracy are completely immiscible.

[HPisBS]

I think to try combining these all the time... but Reckless Attack and Elven Accuracy are completely immiscible.

Shoot, you're right. So maybe Shield Master, first. Do it like: Str Attack → shove prone as b.a. → Dex Sneak Attack.

You're still not getting the full benefit (rage's bonus damage only applies on Str hits, and Elven Acc. only applies on Dex advantage), but you only really need the (super) advantage to crit-fish on your sneak attack, anyways.

[Dork_Forge]

In general:

Anything that gives you a level by level increase in resources- Sorcerer and Monk, kinda Rogue

Anything that gives you additional ASIs to get ALL THE FEATS- Fighter and Rogue

One thing I'm really curious about with this set up is a Psi Warrior/Psi Knife dual class, besides being a master psionicist at this point (with ASIs to pick up Telekinetic and Telepathic, because why not) the ability to have two psi dice pools, that level with each other would be spamtastic.

Edit: I'm also really intertested in how crazy hard the DM is planning to make this, with such generous char creation.

[Brawnspear]

Half Elf, Conquest Paladin / Long Death monk.
14 Str, 20 Dex, 16 Con, 16 Int, 20 Wis, 20 Cha

20 AC, When you hit level 6 at will fear effect with high DC, Level 7 that fear effect locks people down. Bonus points if your GM lets you smite via unarmed attacks / let improved divine smite work with them. Eventual proficiency in all saving throws +5 from Charisma.
Shield of faith for a little AC boost if needed, Temp hp when you kill something, lay on hands for picking people up from the ground and removing conditions.

If Tasha's is on the table and you can swap some stats and/or weapon proficiencies
Warlock / Bladesinger. Have all the fun of warlock at will eldritch blast added on to a character with Hand Crossbow proficiency (from Drow or other elf) and the crossbow master feat. Shoot with xbow, Eldritch blast, bonus action shoot with crossbow. No Deadzone, plenty of spells to sling for other situations. Sadly, Improved Pact weapon doesn't work for hand crossbow, but wizards get access to Magic weapon if needed and you can pick up some more cantrips or a fancy familiar.

Artillerist Bearbarian, Get a mounted shoulder cannon that burns your spell slots, but can be used while raging. Self buff your Magic items. Or Barb/pally get your smite on and boost your mental defenses. Or a MoonDruid / Bearbarian, burn spell slots to heal your raging bear form.

Cleric / Fighter for Paladining without the paladin. All the attacks, extra feats, Fighting styles, spirit guardians.

Armorer Rogue: Stick it out in Light armor for advantage and expertised stealth. A ranged Lightning shot, again, pick up crossbow master to kill your deadzone and get a bonus action attack with the repeating shot infusion so you can wear a shield.

Lotsa fun multiclass options that normally wouldn't come online till later are workable with those stats and this class setup.

[Helliquin]

DM in new campaign has advised we will be starting level 3, and roll 12 D20 pick highest 6, racial bonuses can go over 20...

I rolled 20, 20, 18, 15, 15, 14

However most interesting alteration - we will be able to choose two classes, leveling both at the same time, getting benefits from both classes (only 1 ASI). No further multi classing is available.

Ie: ranger/monk, bard/barbarian, warlock/paladin

Obviously this opens up some unique opportunities for character development.

Any thoughts as to how to best handle this?

Spell slots stack, making casters pretty irresistible but I can also see them being heavily used by others in campaign.

No word if you get three attack actions should you choose two martial classes.

If yes, I’d probably go a melee character, or melee and half caster (cleric, Pali).

As mentioned by someone, fighter, to get all the ASI/feats would be great. I find fighters a bit boring though.

Tashas is on the table.

Throwing around a wood elf gloomstalker/monk (unsure which type - drunken?) with mobile feat. At level 3 that’ll be 22 dex, 20 wis, AC 21, +11 ini, moving 50 (60) ft, punching 3 or 4 times a round with hunters mark etc, dark vision and invisibility to those using dark vision.

And yes, DM has said the monster stats will be scaled appropriately so I’m expecting goblins to have black dragon stats or something stupid. All assumptions will be off the table.

[CTurbo]

Brute Fighter + Long Death Monk

Any race that gives +2 Dex. Wood Elf maybe for the extra speed?

22 Dex, 18 Con, 20 Wis

At level 3, your attacks will be doing 2d4+6 each and by level 20, you'll be doing 2d10+6 per hit and have 5 or 6 attacks per turn.

Between the Long Death's 3rd and 11th level features, and the Brute's 18th level feature, you'll be pretty much unkillable.

You get 2 fighting styles. Archery? Blind Fighting? Thrown Weapon Fighting could be fun if you want to use some darts/daggers. If you can grab Mariner, it'd give +1 AC without armor.

You'll have loads of feats with no reason to boost any ASI unless you can boost them over 20. Mobile, Alert, Lucky, Ritual Caster, Magic Initiate, Skilled, Tough, Mage Slayer, Observant, Wood Elf Magic, uh.... Sharpshooter?




Gloom Stalker pairs extremely well with Monk although the Ranger's high levels are kinda weak. Can you use the UA Revised Ranger? As much as I love Long Death, I think Shadow Monk would work best with Gloom Stalker.


Your stats can easily support a super mad build. You could be a Paladin/Monk and never ever have to worry about failing a save at higher levels.

You could be be a good old fashioned Champion/Barbarian. Mountain Dwarf starts with 22 Str and Con and you could have a 20 Dex too. Expanded Crit range + Brutal Critical FTW!!!

Soooooooo many combinations here. Wiz + Sorc, Wiz + Fighter, Wiz + Cleric...

Berserker Barbarian + Cleric so you can cast Greater Restoration on yourself after each battle.

Druid + Barbarian, Druid + Monk, Druid + Cleric....



I think if you want to go full caster, go Paladin + any of the Cha casters. Even Paladin + Bard would be awesome. Paladin + Sorcerer and Paladin + Warlock are probably the 2 most powerful multiclass options. Mountain Dwarf starts you with 22 Str and Con.

[kazaryu]

Spell slots stack, making casters pretty irresistible but I can also see them being heavily used by others in campaign.

No word if you get three attack actions should you choose two martial classes.

If yes, I’d probably go a melee character, or melee and half caster (cleric, Pali).

As mentioned by someone, fighter, to get all the ASI/feats would be great. I find fighters a bit boring though.

Tashas is on the table.

Throwing around a wood elf gloomstalker/monk (unsure which type - drunken?) with mobile feat. At level 3 that’ll be 22 dex, 20 wis, AC 21, +11 ini, moving 50 (60) ft, punching 3 or 4 times a round with hunters mark etc, dark vision and invisibility to those using dark vision.

And yes, DM has said the monster stats will be scaled appropriately so I’m expecting goblins to have black dragon stats or something stupid. All assumptions will be off the table.

EK/Bladesinger?

*some* bonus spell slot, to make use of that feature, and really low level spell slots are the most important, for keeping shield/absorb elements ready. but more importantly with your rolled stats you're looking at a 23 AC *at game start* while your bladesong is active (13(mage armor)+5(dex)+5(int)). you have a +9 (+11 depending on how starting save proficiiencies work) to concentration checks, fighter HP (presumably)..in short, you can play a bladesinger without any of the downsides of playing a blade singer. if the DM is stingy with magic weapons...you can magic your own weapon. at level 5 you can haste yourself, greater invis at lvl 7.... truly a force to be reckoned with.


alternatively: land druid/cleric. at level 3 you can have 22 spells prepared (6 domain/land spells) which is a TON of versatility at level 3. this also gives easy access to the potent goodberry/healing spirit+life cleric combos (depending on how DM rules such things of course). idk, you can look at all the various options here, there are alot. but this combo gives you a ton of control/support options.

edit more ideas!:

monk/cleric: now you don't need to use your action to dodge. you can use spirit guardians, and BA dodge, while using your action to add even more disarray.

barb/rogue: expertise in athletics+BA dash combined with barbarians increased MS, mobile, and adv on str checks means that you can grab people and drag them all over the place, then shove them. for example: chuck an enemy off the cliff? drag a backline guy to the front line? use first attack to trip, then second attack has advantage for sneak attack (without needing to expose yourself) this is on top of the obvious rogue/barbarian synergies.

samurai/rogue: now you can give yourself advantage for SA

diviner/paladin: 1/10 days you can guarantee crits! (maybe even more often if your ability scores are any indication).

[Dalinar]

I forgot one potential thing and that is that either Peace or Twilight Cleric plus Shepherd Druid equals basically a one-man army once you get Conjure Animals.

[dmhelp]

Hexblade Bladesinger would be fun. Could you take crossbow expert and do attack, eldritch blast, bonus action attack? Using pact slots for eldritch smite.

[Bloodcloud]

Couple of cool options:
Kung-fu Panda: Moon Druid/Monk (any really). Check with your DM how he feels about Bear form martial art.
Lots of HP, spells, eventually profiency in all save, and become functionnaly eternal. Get the thelepathy feat to talk with teamate in anial form.

Storm King: Tempest cleric/Storm sorcerer. Max damage blasts, full armor, decent hp, good mobility. Would work beatifully with your stats.

Very Eldritch Knight: Eldritch knight fighter/Infernal warlock. Hex and fighters multiattack/action surge is a beautifull combo. Adding cha to damage and avoiding extra attack overlap is nice. A mix of low level long rest spell slot and high level short rest slot is very interesting. Grab temp hp on kill to be near unstoppable. Plenty of room for feats too. Starting level 10 you can impose disadvantage on saving throw with your weapon attacks which work well with your big spells. Action surge allows you to double fireball, so goodbye mooks.

Sorcadin: Classic combo, solid defenses, big smites, bonus action spells. Hold person then auto crit for the win.

Grab-stabber: Rogue/barabarian. Rogue gets you expertise, rage gets you advantage, grapple the fools, drag them in a corner and stabs them mercilessly. Eventually you get perma advantage on attacks without disadvantage which is just funny. Evasion and advantage on dex save, more speed and bonus action dash, uncanny dodge and rage for quarter damage... Lots of synergy here suprisingly.

Zen Bowmaster: Kensai Monk/Battlemaster. Ultimate sharpshooter with well-rounded defenses and incredible mobility.

Super Swashbuckler: Battlemaster/Swashbuckler rogue. Between Sentinel feat and Riposte manoeuvre, you get a reaction attack just about every round for multiple sneak attacks a round.

Some basics:
Action economy is king, so action surge/quicken spells are absolute hot commodity. Smite + Multiattack is a way to nova hard and quickly expend your plentiful ressources. Paladin's aura is one of the few ways to shore up your saving throws, the other being Monk 14. Saving throws are probably the hardest weakness to patch.

Edit:
Ohhh aother one: Baldesinger/Eldritch knight, take magic initiate warlock and the feat that gets you an invocation. At 20, thats' 3 attack, 4 eldritchblast then surge for another 7 attacks, then bonus action attack. Absolute madness.

[dmhelp]

For different you could make a fighter/monk and ignore martial arts. Take gwm/pam and use all your ki for stunning strike. Since I don’t believe stunning strike has a weapon or armor restriction. Could do 20 str 20 wis (and decide if you want to use unarmored defense or not for dex placement).