Intelligent Item control

[redking]

Is there any handbook on controlling intelligent items? If not, how would you go about ensuring that an intelligent item will NEVER successfully challenge your control?

[RNightstalker]

Intelligent Items will always challenge for control. And considering that it becomes a Will save, there are steps to be made to prevent a roll of 1 sticking: luck rerolls, Moment of Perfect Mind maneuver, etc. But there's nothing to prevent someone rolling a 1 enough times in a row to prevent that.

[Drelua]

Yeah I don't think there's really much you can do to make sure you win those rolls, apart from boosting your will save of course. I would probably avoid using intelligent items, or if you're crafting it yourself try to give it an alignment and goals that will align with yours so it won't have much reason to challenge you. If you can give it a special purpose like 'Defend servants of [your deity]' that would probably help, assuming you're not likely to be fighting other servants of your deity, so it depends who you worship I guess.

[Particle_Man]

That raises an interesting point. The intelligent item is often based on the personality of its creator *at the moment of the intelligent item's creation*. If the creator then has a radical change of heart, it is quite possible for the item to challenge even its own creator for control.

Come to think of it, this might explain the 2010 Tron: Legacy movie.

[Troacctid]

An intelligent item is like any other ally. You'll work best together if your interests are aligned. Since the item is presumably the same alignment as you already (or else it would be imposing a negative level on you), that shouldn't be too hard.

[schreier]

Item familiars can become intelligent, and I believe that, as long as the character doesn't make a significant change to alignment, the item will never challenge for control

[unseenmage]

Nominally Intelligent Magic Items are Constructs and there's language for controlling Constructs you create barring other text in said Construct's entry denying you control.

Additionally one could mind swap oneself into the Intelligent Magic item after hitting it with Greater Humanoid Essence (it's a Construct after all).

Turning it into a creature capable of being added to a BoVD Hivemind could put it and the other hive mind entities on the same page as well.


Greater Humanoid Essence on it plus mind control is probably your best bet though.

And if its not Construct-ey enough as just an Intelligent Magic Item then make an intelligent flying weapon so it can literally turn into an Animated Object OR an intelligent Figurine of Wondrous Power so it can turn into an animal then control it that way.

[Cruiser1]

Intelligent Items will always challenge for control. And considering that it becomes a Will save, there are steps to be made to prevent a roll of 1 sticking: luck rerolls, Moment of Perfect Mind maneuver, etc. But there's nothing to prevent someone rolling a 1 enough times in a row to prevent that.
The "Moment of Perfect Mind" maneuver is what you want, because it replaces a will save with a Concentration skill check, and skill checks don't auto-fail on a natural 1. As long as you're not forced to do multiple will saves in a row before you can refresh Moment of Perfect Mind, and you bump your Concentration skill up enough (which is easy), this method means you will pass important will saves with 100% probability. :smallbiggrin:

Non-martial classes can cast "Heroics" or otherwise get that spell cast, to select the "Martial Study" Fighter bonus feat, and get access to the "Moment of Perfect Mind" maneuver that way.

[RNightstalker]

As long as you're not forced to do multiple will saves in a row before you can refresh .

I can see that happening in numerous situations...heck if I'm a DM I might have a little fun building encounters that are very long and will require the player and item to oppose each other every round. I mean why not? lol

[shaikujin]

If this is an item that is being crafted, 1 way is to keep it's ego score below 20 and ensure your goals are aligned.

Keep its mental stats at 10 and ensure it has the same goal as the character by using Nybor's Pyschic Imprint:
http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20041215a


Also, as mentioned in an earlier post, Item Familiars.

[Cruiser1]

heck if I'm a DM I might have a little fun building encounters that are very long and will require the player and item to oppose each other every round.

When a personality conflict occurs, the possessor must make a Will saving throw (DC = item’s Ego). If the possessor succeeds, she is dominant. If she fails, the item is dominant. Dominance lasts for one day or until a critical situation occurs (such as a major battle, a serious threat to either the item or the character, and so on).
Ha ha! :smalltongue: However, normally you only need to make the will saving throw once per day, which is easily covered by the "Moment of Perfect Mind" Concentration check. You may have to do it once more in a major battle, but it would take some pretty harsh DM ruling to make it happen multiple times within a single battle.

[RNightstalker]

but it would take some pretty harsh DM ruling to make it happen multiple times within a single battle.

Harsh...or creative?:tongue:

[Gruftzwerg]

How about some cheesy options to create intelligent items?

Polymorph Any Object:

A nonmagical object cannot be made into a magic item with this spell. Magic items aren’t affected by this spell.
You may not change nonmagical objects into magical items and you can't effect (target) a magic item with this spell.

There seems to be no limitation to turn creatures into magical items. While this still doesn't allow you to turn people into specific magic items, an intelligent item (includes an INT score!) should be a legal target form.

Well.. you might say "but turning people into magic items is evil". In that chase use Simulacrum or Ice Assassins where you have full control over them. The Ice Assassin variant could pose some difficulty. As soon as it leaves a certain range (IIRC 1mile?) the direct control is lost and their desire to kill the "original" fully kicks in. While the control comes back once it is in range, it might plot some evil plans if it has the opportunity given.

My Orochimaru build abuses a deluxe variant of this combo, if you should be interested for more cheese around this idea. You want to have some abilities in your build that you can give the wielder or for the item itself (to get a real magic item feeling).

[Raishoiken]

How about some cheesy options to create intelligent items?

Polymorph Any Object:

You may not change nonmagical objects into magical items and you can't effect (target) a magic item with this spell.

There seems to be no limitation to turn creatures into magical items. While this still doesn't allow you to turn people into specific magic items, an intelligent item (includes an INT score!) should be a legal target form.

Well.. you might say "but turning people into magic items is evil". In that chase use Simulacrum or Ice Assassins where you have full control over them. The Ice Assassin variant could pose some difficulty. As soon as it leaves a certain range (IIRC 1mile?) the direct control is lost and their desire to kill the "original" fully kicks in. While the control comes back once it is in range, it might plot some evil plans if it has the opportunity given.

My Orochimaru build abuses a deluxe variant of this combo, if you should be interested for more cheese around this idea. You want to have some abilities in your build that you can give the wielder or for the item itself (to get a real magic item feeling).

Yknow, i got around the no magic items part by just polymorphing objects into ravenloft devices, but the specific wording you pointed out is just as bad

[Jay R]

If I am the DM, and you have an item which has greater abilities than most that are balanced by having a liability, then that liability will sometimes matter.

This means that intelligent items will sometimes try to challenge for control.


Why else have intelligent items?

[Drelua]

If I am the DM, and you have an item which has greater abilities than most that are balanced by having a liability, then that liability will sometimes matter.

This means that intelligent items will sometimes try to challenge for control.


Why else have intelligent items?

If they didn't pay anything for it to be intelligent, yes, I would agree. But I would say if they crafted it themselves and paid all the costs to craft, there's no reason the GM should feel compelled to make any effort to force it to cause problems , as long as they can reasonably say it would agree with their actions they should be fine. Those powers aren't cheap.