How to increase RP in sessions?

[blackjack50]

I saw it pointed out the other day that the reason Critical Role and other well known D&D shows seem so amazing is the primarily RP driven games. And that is difficult to find sometimes. And what was further observed is that in those games we love? The players drive the RP forward as much (if not more) than the DM. So I am wondering. From both a player and a DM perspective? How do you push further RP into a game?

[Lunali]

The best way would probably be to play something with less focus on mechanics and more on narration for a few sessions. Barring that, talk to people out of character about talking to each other and NPCs in character more. Try to focus more time on the sort of stuff that you might want to skip over otherwise, like getting rooms, shopping, navigating the town, etc.

[Atalas]

the DMs opf the two games i'm in roll t have three people share something about themselves during "dinnertime" during travel. It's worked out fairly well so far.

[Unoriginal]

I saw it pointed out the other day that the reason Critical Role and other well known D&D shows seem so amazing is the primarily RP driven games.

I don't think I agree with that analysis.




And that is difficult to find sometimes. And what was further observed is that in those games we love? The players drive the RP forward as much (if not more) than the DM. So I am wondering. From both a player and a DM perspective? How do you push further RP into a game?

Having NPCs which are interesting and fun to interact with help a lot, as well as having situations which involve the PCs in ways that encourage discussions.

[MoiMagnus]

(1) Critical Role (and others) are played by actors or professional content creators. They know how to improvise, and they're doing it for an audience (it's not just a regular game filmed, they know they are filmed and behave accordingly). I think it's quite important for RP sessions to be possible to reduce the "pressure" and "anxiety" that can come from players not finding the words or not knowing how their characters would behave. Don't aim for high quality RP, it slowly will come with experience.

(2) Third-person RP (so player saying "I think that my character would say that we're not trying to harm anyone here") is a possibility that might help some players. The most important part of RP is not to talk in-character. The most important part of RP is to care about the story/characters/... and not just about the mechanics/game/...

(3) Character relationship! What are the link between the PCs (loyalty, friendship, etc). Who are the peoples that the PCs befriends or became reluctant collaborator of, etc?

[Dalinar]

I can't speak for Critical Role, although I've seen some of Arcadum's content so I guess I'll say this: his biggest strength IMO is the world he's put together. Though he's good at basically everything. I'm a little jealous.

What I can speak for is that, as my GM was writing some campfire stories for NPCs we'd just met, I offered up my own, and he basically said "screw it, free XP for everyone who writes a story before next session." Pretty much everyone did. Now it's a tradition to do that whenever a good excuse comes up. We also do a nightly MVP vote for an XP bonus, and I suppose you could adapt that by limiting it to "best RP moment." (Also can't vote for yourself and can't win it twice in a row, to reduce abuse potential.)

That said, you might feel this amounts to bribery. But if you don't give people a good reason to RP--be it XP rewards, or colorful characters in an interesting world that are a joy to interact with, or what have you--then why would they?

[Theodoxus]

As a DM, I quickly bore of combat. It's a chore. If I could find a co-DM who would handle the running of combat rounds while I ran a monster or two, and then took over NPCs while I ran the non-combat RP, that would be amazing.

But because I loathe running combat, my games tend to be about 7 to 3 in favor of RP instead. I've gone three or four sessions without rolling for initiative. Though eventually, the players start jonsing to roll the dice, so we roll back into it (and I remember all over again why I hate running combat).

So basically, I just force my players to RP just to move the plot along. Between the Social and Exploration pillars that have minimal rules compared to combat, I can get a lot more free-form with what's going on. Also, since I learned at the feet of a master storyteller, I tend to riff on the story, letting it explode outward from what the players are providing me. Some of the best ideas on how to overcome an obstacle have come from my players, and I regularly overwrite what I had planned out with their plan instead. Sometimes I like to confound them though, and they try to work a puzzle, and give me these great ideas, and I stick with my dumb one, just so they don't catch on that I'm ripping off them.

TL;DR: stop running combat, and start talking...

[5eNeedsDarksun]

I can't speak for Critical Role, although I've seen some of Arcadum's content so I guess I'll say this: his biggest strength IMO is the world he's put together. Though he's good at basically everything. I'm a little jealous.

What I can speak for is that, as my GM was writing some campfire stories for NPCs we'd just met, I offered up my own, and he basically said "screw it, free XP for everyone who writes a story before next session." Pretty much everyone did. Now it's a tradition to do that whenever a good excuse comes up. We also do a nightly MVP vote for an XP bonus, and I suppose you could adapt that by limiting it to "best RP moment." (Also can't vote for yourself and can't win it twice in a row, to reduce abuse potential.)

That said, you might feel this amounts to bribery. But if you don't give people a good reason to RP--be it XP rewards, or colorful characters in an interesting world that are a joy to interact with, or what have you--then why would they?

I agree with you. One of the issues I have for awarding extra XP is that in 5e characters seem already to level way too fast. While I haven't had the courage of my convictions to do it I'd like to halve the XP for monsters and open up some space for Role Playing XP as well as Magic Item XP.

[jjordan]

Talk to the participants and see if that's what they want. If it is:

-You're talking about social relationships. In-game social relationships, but still social relationships. So players are going to have to be adults and talk about their in game roleplay. They are going to have to honestly express wants/desires and lay out boundaries and keep communicating about those. Both want they want out of the game and what their characters want, and don't want, out of the game.

-Participants need to listen. They need to listen for the opportunities/invitations to play. They need to listen to see how other players are reacting. They need to listen to the details and make use of those. The DM needs to listen to the backstories and the expressed desires of the players and incorporate those into the game. The players need to listen to the cues the DM is dropping as well as listening to other players.

-The audience is each other. Participants are performing for their fellow participants. When you aren't actively participating in the moment, pay f-ing attention and don't be looking up rules or cruising facebook or chatting. Watch the show and be ready to participate in the show. If you're performing, then perform. And be aware that ensemble shows are stronger. Always look for ways to let other participants get in on the fun.

-Maybe look up some basic improv rules; you can find dozens of free classes online through YouTube and other media. Don't contradict participants but build on what they said.

-Talk about Character versus Character and how to avoid it becoming Player versus Player.

-If you're the DM award inspiration for inspired roleplay. If someone makes the table cheer or laugh or gasp, consider handing out some inspiration and a quick compliment. Reinforce roleplay and provide opportunities for players to engage in it and shine.

-Be charitable to yourself and your fellow participants. The Critical Role players were playing together for three years before they started broadcasting and the first 20 episodes were *rough*. It took professional actors who were already pretty good friends more than three years to figure out how to get to the level they are at. Watch episodes 20-26 of the first season and see how they had a table crisis that led to a player being asked to leave the table AND very clearly had a meeting about what they were doing and how they were doing it that led to some significant changes and improvements. Don't try to be the Crit Role table (or any of the other tables) but build a table that works for your group.

[Dalinar]

As a DM, I quickly bore of combat. It's a chore.

A little off-topic, but you've reminded me of something. To be clear I don't mean to assume you haven't implemented solutions along these lines anyway, but the faster you get through combat, the faster you get back to the parts of the game you like. So hopefully even if you're already doing this stuff, maybe someone else can benefit.

Are there particular time-wasters you're struggling with at your table that might be solved? Stuff like players taking minutes to decide what to do on a turn (announce who's on deck so they're paying attention, and don't be afraid to say "you have five seconds or you just take the Dodge action"), constantly flipping through the books ("I'll rule on X this way for now and will look it up later"), etc.? Is everyone showing up with enough dice to play their characters?

Can you provide chances to RP during your combat encounters (be it trash-talk with the boss, trying to evacuate civilians, swaying disloyal minions, etc.) or otherwise apply the same creative planning and improv you enjoy so much for an encounter? ("Why yes, there are barrels of flammable booze over there, thanks for reminding me.")

Have you ever cut off a combat that was clearly already won ahead of time? ("*rolls dice* OK, the enemy is clearly outmatched. Describe what you're trying to do to them as they run away/surrender/etc.")

Basically, to tie this in to the OP, one way to increase RP in sessions is to make sure there's time for it. This means cutting down on the dice-rolling and hem-hawing parts combat and exploration, so you can squeeze in RP bits in between, as well as giving you more time to spend on the primarily-RP parts of your session.


I agree with you. One of the issues I have for awarding extra XP is that in 5e characters seem already to level way too fast. While I haven't had the courage of my convictions to do it I'd like to halve the XP for monsters and open up some space for Role Playing XP as well as Magic Item XP.

Nice username, and talk it over with your players! I bet it'd go over better than you'd think, especially if they enjoy the early levels more.

[strangebloke]

Basically, don't be lazy.

Provide scenes and situations that are conducive to roleplay. Roleplay interesting NPCs that your players can roleplay with. Once they get into a rhythm roleplaying with you they can move on to roleplaying with the other players. Provide scenarios with more than one approach. Maybe the goblins can be negotiated with or tricked instead of just slaughtered. Maybe there's an ally who can be persuaded to work with the cast.

Secondly, encourage the players to think about their characters' personalities. Instead of asking for a 'backstory' I prefer to ask a series of pointed questions along the lines of "what is your character's greatest fear," and "what does your character want" and "what is something about your character that they don't know themselves."

Thirdly, incorporate elements that directly relate to the personality of the characters in your party. This includes bringing in rivals from their backstories, but also includes more simple thematic stuff. Have a thieving rogue? Have a heist adventure that plays into their traits, bonds, and flaws.

If you do all this.... well some of your players will roleplay, if that's something they enjoy. If it isn't, they won't. Its that simple. You can take a horse to water but you can't make them drink. You cannot and should not force people to do something they don't want to do.

[Tanarii]

Being more like Critical Role seems like the last thing anyone should want.

The best way to get more roleplaying in a TTRPG is give the players more interesting decisions to make, as that's the core of roleplaying, making decisions for your character in the fantasy environment. As you do that more and more, they'll start making big decisions on their own, and go looking for places with interesting small decisions to make.

If you want more characterization, which is something often confused for roleplay, look for ways to tie interesting decisions to their Personality, Ideals, Bonds and Flaws. That is what they are there for. Especially Bonds.

Bonds are there so the player can tell the DM "this is the thing you can attack that'll make my character respond." As opposed to it always having to be family.

[KorvinStarmast]

(1) Critical Role (and others) are played by actors or professional content creators. They know how to improvise, and they're doing it for an audience (it's not just a regular game filmed, they know they are filmed and behave accordingly). Yeah, they are an entertainment venue for profit first ... :smallcool:

(2) Third-person RP (so player saying "I think that my character would say that we're not trying to harm anyone here") is a possibility that might help some players. I really dislike that kind of role play. But you are right; some people need that.

(3) Character relationship! What are the link between the PCs (loyalty, friendship, etc). Who are the peoples that the PCs befriends or became reluctant collaborator of, etc? yeah.


-Participants need to listen.
They also need to stay off of their cell phones. :smallfurious:


- The audience is each other. Participants are performing for their fellow participants. When you aren't actively participating in the moment, pay f-ing attention and don't be looking up rules or cruising facebook or chatting. Watch the show and be ready to participate in the show. If you're performing, then perform. And be aware that ensemble shows are stronger. Always look for ways to let other participants get in on the fun.
So much this! :smallsmile:


-If you're the DM award inspiration for inspired roleplay. This I do.


-Be charitable to yourself and your fellow participants. The Critical Role players were playing together for three years before they started broadcasting and the first 20 episodes were *rough*. It took professional actors who were already pretty good friends more than three years to figure out how to get to the level they are at. Watch episodes 20-26 of the first season and see how they had a table crisis that led to a player being asked to leave the table AND very clearly had a meeting about what they were doing and how they were doing it that led to some significant changes and improvements. Don't try to be the Crit Role table (or any of the other tables) but build a table that works for your group.
Thanks for that bit as well. All in all a fine post. :smallsmile:

[da newt]

Ask Why? Why do you do X? Why do you want to achieve Y?

Learn to be quiet for a bit so the players will feel the need to fill the void.

Ask your players about their character's motivations, goals and desired character arcs.

Ban phones from the table/room.

Everyone is different, enjoys different things, excels at different stuff, and many folks are not naturally inclined to enjoy sitting back to let someone else drive the narrative for a bit while helping ad-lib in a supportive 'yes, and ...' sort of way.

And some folks really prefer combat heavy, mechanical, can I solve the puzzle RPGs too.

[Man_Over_Game]

Roll before you role.

One big reason we are so cautious with our RPing is because we avoid wasted effort. If I give a big speech about why this person should help us, and then roll a 2, my role-playing wasn't just a waste, but a problem. Now we have to subtract from the story to make my 2 seem plausible. But that could have been fixed had I known I was going to roll a 2, because then I can role that 2. Now I'm in control of that small piece of my universe. Of course, do this only with skill checks, this doesn't work in high-octane fights.

Also, you need to make roleplaying worthwhile and obvious.

Players gonna play. We naturally seek out whatever helps us get an edge, because we are addicted to succeeding. Even if we don't necessarily enjoy the method in which we're succeeding, many of us will still continue to do so because it makes us succeed. For example, a game that's too easy could be made more fun by just using worse items and accepting a handicap, but we instead choose to play a worse game because it means winning more, even if that success isn't more fun.

So, to put simply, you have to make the win condition require roleplaying. And it has to be obvious. In lieu of it being obvious (because you can't describe everything), let them define stuff on their own. Give them a little bit of power in deciding whether they can throw the door they just tackled off of its hinges and bullrushed with. Let them choose what their ale of choice does for them.

Part of your job is telling a player when they can't do something, but make sure they know anything less than that is fair game. Once they get comfortable making their own decisions about the world, they'll be less cautious and less mechanically minded. As of now, the only thing they can actually trust about the game are the mechanics in the books.

[blackjack50]

As a DM, I quickly bore of combat. It's a chore. If I could find a co-DM who would handle the running of combat rounds while I ran a monster or two, and then took over NPCs while I ran the non-combat RP, that would be amazing.

But because I loathe running combat, my games tend to be about 7 to 3 in favor of RP instead. I've gone three or four sessions without rolling for initiative. Though eventually, the players start jonsing to roll the dice, so we roll back into it (and I remember all over again why I hate running combat).

So basically, I just force my players to RP just to move the plot along. Between the Social and Exploration pillars that have minimal rules compared to combat, I can get a lot more free-form with what's going on. Also, since I learned at the feet of a master storyteller, I tend to riff on the story, letting it explode outward from what the players are providing me. Some of the best ideas on how to overcome an obstacle have come from my players, and I regularly overwrite what I had planned out with their plan instead. Sometimes I like to confound them though, and they try to work a puzzle, and give me these great ideas, and I stick with my dumb one, just so they don't catch on that I'm ripping off them.

TL;DR: stop running combat, and start talking...

I love this. I really enjoy the RP side of the game. When I’ve DMed...my stories are good. My execution is flawed. But I’m getting better with improv. I just wish I had better delivery of characters. I feel the same way about combat.

[furby076]

The best way would probably be to play something with less focus on mechanics and more on narration for a few sessions. Barring that, talk to people out of character about talking to each other and NPCs in character more. Try to focus more time on the sort of stuff that you might want to skip over otherwise, like getting rooms, shopping, navigating the town, etc.

Been playing since 1989ish and never been to a tabl where mechanics killed RP. Mechanics is needed to help adjudicate the rules fairly, while the RP should be how to weave the mechanics "i roll a 20 and hit with my vorpal axe" vs "I heft my axe from the ground, stare the gnoll straight into the eye and tell it 'you shall meet the same fate that i dolled out to your dog of a mother', and then I cleave into it watching the gush out where it's head once stood". Lots of mechanics had to occur to get that bit of rp

[elyktsorb]

Have players that actually care about their character. Too many times most players just go 'let's do this thing' because it's either easy, or because it doesn't matter.

For instance let's say there's a paladin who doesn't want to kill anyone. One of two things usually happen, either everyone else decides to suddenly to non-lethal finishing blows, or nobody cares and they continue killing things as usual, with the paladin falling in line shortly after because no one seems to care.

I recall a lovely campaign where I played with such a Paladin, and I played as a Druid, and my Druid was adamant on no second chances. Every enemy we defeated that was able to be taken alive was given a choice, either disarm completely and leave, or die. (The die part was my characters ultimatum)

More often than not most enemies would attempt to flee, and on some occasions where we did let an enemy go free, they would come back to fight us again, in which they would be killed outright by an angry Druid. Which brought a lot of grief to the Paladin, who hated that we had to kill anyone, but couldn't deny that things just ended up working out that way for better or worse.



The overall point is that if you don't have players invested in what their characters think as opposed to what might be the best for the group, or what might be easiest in the moment, you don't get much room for rp.

Basically outside of characters forming actual relationships (which trust me, between complete strangers is always going to be hard to do) if none of them have differing thoughts and opinions, there's never a reason for heavy interaction.


TLDR - Forcing more RP isn't really something that works and has to happen more naturally, so if you aren't set up for it to happen in the first place, it probably won't happen.

And on the above topic of combat ruining rp, yeah I don't agree with that at all. I've had plenty of rp moments that eventually go into combat, because someone said the wrong thing. And I've had plenty of combat moments either stop outright to do something more rp related, or that the combat leads to some interesting rp points.

[PhoenixPhyre]

One thing that's made a huge difference with my current group (other than a group of people willing to think like their characters, which is rather a necessary prerequisite) is having a side-channel. We do much of our "RP" (of the "telling stories and bantering" variety) via a discord chat channel between sessions.

But remember that the core of RP isn't funny voices or speaking in 1st person. It's making decisions as if you were in the character's shoes. Living in the (fictional) world, getting attached to the NPCs and events, treating it as if it were real (or could be real). Setting aside the self that's playing the game (as much as practical, there's a balance here) and being the character. One of the best roleplayed characters I've had was a barbarian who said a grand total of like 5 words during the whole (short) campaign. And mostly those were "and now we can kill them, right?" Because she lived her character[1].

But having a side-channel and a DM willing to put forth some between-session effort makes a huge difference as I'm finding out. I've taken to doing what I call "dreams and visions" with my current group. When I know we've got a longer-than-normal break between sessions (2 weeks this time), I'll put together some sort of "dream" or "vision" or other thing for one or more characters. A few paragraphs, posted to the discord channel for all to read. This is a great time for warlock/patron interactions (the one I just finished running that ended up being an impromptu text-based session with basically the whole party, ending on a cliffhanger).

I've had dreams relating to backstory and how the characters came to be where they are, memories of the past, even foreboding visions of possible futures. Having a fantasy world that is awash in omens, prophecies, visions (some sent by helpful forces, others by meddlers, and yet others just the vagaries of the subconscious) lets you play games that (in my experience) draw the party into the world.

The other avenue is letting their RP mean something. Especially for those that are a little bit hesitant--if they see that when they speak up and do things in character that they don't get punished, but that their risks have rewards (even if it's just responding to a pithy description with an extra bit of narration when you'd normally just do mechanical stuff), they're more likely to do so more in the future.

The downside is, of course, more work on the DM's part. Doing this right requires having a good understanding of the world the characters are living in[2]. Potemkin villages with their paper-thin backdrops need not apply. And lots of trust between players and DM--it works best if both are collaborating in backstory and they trust each other to make parts fit together right without explicit instructions.

And then too, some people don't like to take on this kind of role. They prefer to live at the game level. And that's not bad either. Just different.

[1] The player was a 4'11" (maybe) girl, super soft-spoken and shy in real life. Her character was a 6'6" green dragonborn berserker barbarian with a big axe who was positively vicious. It was glorious. Especially how she immediately picked that archetype as soon as I mentioned it. She knew she wanted to chop heads.

[2] I hadn't planned on running a 2-hour session just now. Including making up a MWAT (Magical Weapons and Tactics) team with their characterization, an inn stocked with goblin maids and cook's helpers, and the world's equivalent of cheerios. I'd planned to drop a vision and do a little back and forth and have stuff happen "off camera" as a little vignette for some warlock/patron interaction. But of course the rest of the party jumped in and wanted to play along, so they talked their way into a MWAT raid. No mechanics at all other than casting spells such as invisibility and fly, just narrative. Most of which was done on the fly, ad hoc. But I've been playing in this world for almost 6 years now, so I've got a decent (I like to think) handle on the world's feel.

[Composer99]

I've enjoyed watching Critical Role (although I stopped probably around January 2020 and haven't got back into it). I would not, however, suggest it as an aspiration for gaming tables writ large:
(1) It is an entertainment product as much as it is a game.
(2) The DM and players are professional voice actors. They are bringing the skills and expertise of their "day jobs" into the game. (This is particularly notable with the PCs from campaign two, many of whom would be tiresome at best to have at the table in the hands of less-skilled actors, which is most players.)

One thing I will definitely give CR is Sam Riegel and Liam O'Brien's hand gestures while describing spellcasting. Loved that stuff.

As a DM, you can encourage RP by:
(1) Bringing your world to life - savour the sights, sounds, and smells the characters encounter.
(2) Play your important NPCs in character. That doesn't mean voice acting, especially if you're not comfortable with it - it means having a concept of who each character is and then having what they say and do be consistent with the concept.
(3) Reward the players for roleplaying with Inspiration, XP, and even automatic success with certain tasks. By roleplaying I don't mean voice acting, but rather having a concept of who their characters are and then having what they do and say be consistent with the concept (as long as they stay within the bounds of table culture for "lone wolf" and other anti-social behaviours).
(4) As per Man_Over_Game's remarks, if a roll is required, do that first, then roleplay the results.
(5) Give the players moments to roleplay. Have some downtime? On a long watch or long journey? Great time to have a few players do the whole roleplay thing. Just don't overdo it, especially if there are players at your table who are just there to roll dice and kick butt.

As a player, you can encourage RP by:
(1) Bringing your traits, ideals, bonds, and flaws to life.
(2) Put a little more thought into how your character says and does things. Add some flashes of descriptive detail (without overdoing it).
- "Frustrated at losing that last round of cards, Durok slams his hand angrily on the table before getting up and stalking away with surprising swiftness."
- "With a complex flourish, I wave the feather in the air before smashing it into the small tart, then speak a mystic word of power and cast hideous laughter."

As you can see, voice acting is not really a necessity for better roleplaying, although it can be fun.

[Trask]

I've found that investment into the setting can help a lot. When players make characters that fit into the detail and tone of the setting. I often times implicate my players to be associated with certain peoples, organizations, or ideas. Such as having a foreigner assume the character is going to say or do something based on their race gets the player thinking about how they are presented and also about their association based on their race/tribe/political alignment. I've also had a shopkeeper who was secretly part of an evil cult assume that a Half Orc PC was an agent of the cult coming to deliver a message just because the cult utilized and associated with monsters.

[PhoenixPhyre]

I've found that investment into the setting can help a lot. When players make characters that fit into the detail and tone of the setting. I often times implicate my players to be associated with certain peoples, organizations, or ideas. Such as having a foreigner assume the character is going to say or do something based on their race gets the player thinking about how they are presented and also about their association based on their race/tribe/political alignment. I've also had a shopkeeper who was secretly part of an evil cult assume that a Half Orc PC was an agent of the cult coming to deliver a message just because the cult utilized and associated with monsters.

This. Weaving the characters into the world, finding where they belong and then playing into that helps a ton. RP in a flat world is, to me, pointless. Just point me at the next dungeon and off we go to kill things/loot things/seduce things (the last is the bards responsibility).

A rich, almost living world that reacts to you, even (especially!) in small ways, makes tons of difference. Is the party high level/well known in the area? Have people treat them that way. Not the Skyrim "I've slain an immortal dragon god and eaten its soul, but the guards still treat me like common dirt" style.

[Jerrykhor]

One thing i like DMs to do is ask RP questions before the session starts. 'What would your character do if ____?' or 'What's your character's favourite _____?' They help the players to flesh our their characters.

[Kane0]

- Remember inspiration is a thing, or provide some other means of mechanically rewarding roleplay
- remember traits/bonds/flaws are a thing
- devote time and attention to it
- ensure interesting RP situations come up
- prompt players about their characters
- remember there are more senses than just sight and sound
- provide some means of characters actually conversing outside of gametime, like an in-character chat channel on discord

[Dravda]

A few suggestions, some of which have already been mentioned...

Talk out-of-character. "Hey, guys, I want to include some more roleplay next session. What are your thoughts?" A surprising number of D&D problems are solved not by clever social engineering, psychological warfare, or life hacks, but just by talking like adults.

Proper introductions. Ask everyone for a character description at the start of the first session. Do it again if you go more than a week without playing, or if you introduce a new player. Describing the characters (and hearing them described) sets the stage, refreshes everyone's memory, and may even provoke some interesting banter at the table.

Prompt them. A single prompt can go a long way. Go around the table and ask each player the same question, in sequence. "What is your character doing during this short rest?" "What are you doing with your evening?" "What does your morning routine look like?" "How do you spend your three days in town?" Questions tying two specific characters together can be fun, too. "Leonard, you and Grok disagreed about something today. What was it?" "Bel, what did you and Rosa bond over today?"

Tie in their backstories. It's a simple fact that players do not come to the table to experience your story, they come to the table to play their characters. The game is all about them: make it all about them. Bring in an old friend or an old enemy and give the players a chance to react.

Solo sessions. Anything from a few messages back and forth between sessions to a full one-on-one session. Let your players pick their own goals, and give their characters opportunities to develop and pursue those goals. Team ensemble movies are fun, but the solo movies are where the real character development can shine.

Props. One campaign of mine in particular, my players were all somewhat shy and reticent around each other. That changed when I handed them a map: getting a physical object in their hands was the impetus they needed to lean forward and engage wholeheartedly with the secondary world. Consider bringing an ornamental dagger, wooden box, bag of coins, or a letter to the table!

Leave well enough alone. Some players aren't comfortable roleplaying, and won't have fun being pushed to do it. There's nothing wrong with wallflower players: if they're at your table, they're probably already having fun!

[Azuresun]

A lot of good advice here! But I think first, try and figure out why the group isn't roleplaying. That's the important bit.

Some players just plain don't feel comfortable talking in-character and would stop having fun if they were pushed to do so. Others might want to roleplay, but feel self-conscious about acting in front of their friends and don't want to be the first ones to stick their heads out. Others might want to speak up, but another player is innocently dominating the conversation every time they talk to an NPC. If you can't read why, then you can just ask them.

Once you know that, then you might have a better idea of what to do.


One thing i like DMs to do is ask RP questions before the session starts. 'What would your character do if ____?' or 'What's your character's favourite _____?' They help the players to flesh our their characters.

My personal favourite is to ask players to choose a theme song for their character. :smallwink:

There was another one where I said "Okay, imagine it's the opening of a TV show, and there's a montage of all the characters doing something cool. What's your character doing?"

[Osuniev]

Players gonna play. We naturally seek out whatever helps us get an edge, because we are addicted to succeeding. Even if we don't necessarily enjoy the method in which we're succeeding, many of us will still continue to do so because it makes us succeed. For example, a game that's too easy could be made more fun by just using worse items and accepting a handicap, but we instead choose to play a worse game because it means winning more, even if that success isn't more fun.

So, to put simply, you have to make the win condition require roleplaying. And it has to be obvious.
Indeed. I found that the obvious win condition in DnD is, mostly, character progress.

At the end of each session, each of my players, plus me (the DM) awards an XP bonus for a good moment of RP to the player of their choice, other than themselves. We had a session zero defining what counted as "good RP" :
- choices that are true to the character but counter to optimal-player-decision (the Fighter who has 2 HP chose to stay in melee rather than back down from his sworn enemy, the 8 INTCleric who said "my character didn't understand you guys were talking in code"
- great execution of your character doing something, whether a speech, a combat sequence, etc...

The fact that it's awarded by everyone at the table removes a lot of the wrong incentives : if your RP makes the game unfun to the others, it won't be rewarded . And with a caring and well-meaning party, it can help self-conscious players get more confident : last session, my Changeling Sorcerer spent A LOT of time RPing her as*hole dissociative personality. She was afraid of hogging the spotlight or boring others... But at the end of the session, EVERYONE gave their XP award to her, and she was relieved.

It may creates situation where a player gets ahead of the party. It's not necessarily a bad thing : my Cleric reached level 17 3 sessions before anyone else, which cemented her role as "the bad-ass fanatic of the party".


This award is generally similar to an Easy encounter (50, 100, 1000, 2000 XP depending on Tier. Awarded once per player (and once per the DM), every session).

[stoutstien]

From my experience most of the problem is based on how people quantify roleplaying. Not everyone wants to have a funny voice and talk in first person so they actively avoid situations that would make them do it. Make sure they are aware they could also describe what they are doing in 3rd person like from a narrative perspective or from 2nd person. Make sure you aren't demanding one style as the only format so players are free to represent thier PC how they are fit.

The second factor I would focus on is make sure the world is dynamic and reacts organically which is a ton more work for the DM but 2 good NPCs out weigh 50 skyrim guards.

[Lunali]

Been playing since 1989ish and never been to a tabl where mechanics killed RP. Mechanics is needed to help adjudicate the rules fairly, while the RP should be how to weave the mechanics "i roll a 20 and hit with my vorpal axe" vs "I heft my axe from the ground, stare the gnoll straight into the eye and tell it 'you shall meet the same fate that i dolled out to your dog of a mother', and then I cleave into it watching the gush out where it's head once stood". Lots of mechanics had to occur to get that bit of rp

I wasn't suggesting the mechanics kill RP, but rather that the mechanics of DnD encourage focusing on combat, which makes it less likely for people to start RPing. Playing a narrative first game for a little bit can help break the ice so people can start RPing more, which they can then bring back to DnD.

[Merudo]

Being more like Critical Role seems like the last thing anyone should want.

Care to elaborate? I'm not a fan of Critical Role, but I find their roleplaying to be usually decent.

[Chronic]

Been playing since 1989ish and never been to a tabl where mechanics killed RP. Mechanics is needed to help adjudicate the rules fairly, while the RP should be how to weave the mechanics "i roll a 20 and hit with my vorpal axe" vs "I heft my axe from the ground, stare the gnoll straight into the eye and tell it 'you shall meet the same fate that i dolled out to your dog of a mother', and then I cleave into it watching the gush out where it's head once stood". Lots of mechanics had to occur to get that bit of rp

I disagree in part. I have played dozens and dozens of tabletop rpg with the same group, some are way better at producing roleplay, and it's totally due to the mechanics. Recently I had part of my group play blades in the dark. They were the "weak" part of the group in terms of RP. We are now 10 sessions in and they have become ****ing beasts and there is no doubt it's because of how the game is played. I rely heavily on them to drive the story, i give them meaningful choices to make and they come up with good plays session after session. Sure, many of these things can be done in pretty much any system, but some systems push you to do it cleverly.

[Xervous]

D&D is at its most basic a means of entertainment. As the GM you deserve to have fun, but your fun is not necessarily what everyone else came here to share in.

Just as you wouldn’t put a meat grinder before a party that is expecting a ‘chosen ones’ safe campaign, don’t expect the kleptos to care about your intricate plot, the mainline role players to feel engaged by your highly tactical grid skirmishes, or the participant to step up to anything seriously beyond the beer & pretzels gathering he considers this to be.

This mostly comes down to communication. Ask what the players want, expect, and hope for. Pay attention to what they focus on and avoid. Try to make sure early on that everyone is here for compatible reasons and that the characters will fit the campaign.

Ask your players straight up if they are interested in more RP. If they answer yes that opens the door to discussions on how to get more involvement. If they answer no, now you know why there’s not much RP; they don’t find it fun and forcing them through it would be asking them to sing and dance for your entertainment alone.

[Ashe]

As a DM, I quickly bore of combat. It's a chore.

Why on earth are you playing 5e of all systems?

[Xervous]

Why on earth are you playing 5e of all systems?

I assume it’s 5e or no gaming as dictated by player desires.

[Chad.e.clark]

I have roughly a 50/50 split for being player / DM, and there are things you can do on both sides of the table.

As a DM, before the session starts, as the players are filing in, ask them about their characters if you dont know them. Learn what makes them tick, learn what makes a hard decision for them and actually use that info during a session. As the DM, I take it as my responsibility to set the tone for the table, so I tell everyone if they can make me believe the are actually their character, the get inspiration and I make sure to hand it out easy relative to how comfortable players are with RP. Don't make players uncomfortable by forcing them to RP, but give them to space within the session to RP. I'll jot down in my notes during and after the game and always try to circle back with positive reinforcement for positive RP. Take opportunities to describe the moments in between turns in combat, make it a living breathing world, ask player's to describe their efforts and feed off of those details. Make an effort to reward players for their effort.

As a player, sometimes it means taking the moment for yourself, but you have to read the room: you are **never** the only person at the table, let alone the most important person at the table. Do your best to make your character come alive during the game. My Ancients Paladin was very much a competitve athlete, he took it as part of his oath to keep the light alive in others. During the "tavern" introduction to the session, I asked the DM who the biggest, burliest looking guy was in the tavern so I could promptly go and challange him to an arm wrestling contest. Later in that game, we came upon a swarm of snakes. Having talk with animals as a prepped spell, I tried that in combat to establish dominance instead of attacking, I got bit for my troubles. Another game and another group, the partyhad to split up into two row boats. I was a Bard, no way I was rowing, instead I was at the front, having Mage Hand hold a torch 10 feet in front of the boat in the fog so we could see more clearly and strumming a rhythm on his leer so everyone could keep rhythm with rowing easier.

Sometimes RP works out well mechanically, but mechanics are only part of the RPG formula. Don't think you have to perform at anyone's level for it to be "good enough", just come at it from a genuine good-intentioned place and remember its not all about you. Its Us, not just me. Read the table, and flex your improv and RP muscles when you are able to. My favorite moments have been filling in open moments that I hadn't been aware of 30 seconds before. Look for those moments.

[Tanarii]

Care to elaborate? I'm not a fan of Critical Role, but I find their roleplaying to be usually decent.
Mainly that as voice actors they tend to lean on "funny voices" and generally talky-time instead of Roleplaying. But I also find the pacing incredibly tedious. Even the players in the videos show visible signs of boredom regularly.

But also the show propagates the misunderstanding that characterization is roleplaying. Which is a mistake shown by many in this thread, based on suggestions being made. Making decisions for your character in the fantasy environment is roleplaying. Characterization, which includes onscreen or offscreen asides which have nothing to do with the game at hand to showcase your characters personality can of course be lots of fun. But it isn't the same thing.

Roleplaying is show, don't tell. Characterization is tell, don't show.

[Kurt Kurageous]

(1) Critical Role (and others) are played by actors or professional content creators. They know how to improvise, and they're doing it for an audience (it's not just a regular game filmed, they know they are filmed and behave accordingly). I think it's quite important for RP sessions to be possible to reduce the "pressure" and "anxiety" that can come from players not finding the words or not knowing how their characters would behave. Don't aim for high quality RP, it slowly will come with experience.

(2) Third-person RP (so player saying "I think that my character would say that we're not trying to harm anyone here") is a possibility that might help some players. The most important part of RP is not to talk in-character. The most important part of RP is to care about the story/characters/... and not just about the mechanics/game/...

(3) Character relationship! What are the link between the PCs (loyalty, friendship, etc). Who are the peoples that the PCs befriends or became reluctant collaborator of, etc?

Ditto.
It's called the Matt Mercer effect. It badly distorts new players expectations, creating pressure and anxiety. The DM needs to address it. Its a question of fun. Fun for some, fun for all, good. Fun for one? nope.

[EggKookoo]

Regarding speaking in character-voice. If you're a DM and you want your players to do that, you need to start. I have a player who, unknown to anyone, was dying to speak in her PC's voice. But no one else did, so she didn't. I started getting more into doing it for NPCs and she responded, tentatively at first. I became the embarrassment sink -- she felt shielded by my willingness to look ridiculous at the table.

Also, one thing I've learned about speaking in character-voice is that it's less about generating the specific voice and more about knowing what to say. When you 3rd-person it ("Yeah, the bartender gives you a gruff laugh and wistfully recounts the day when he...") you have the luxury of not needing to literally script out the dialogue. When you 1st-person it, you need to know what you're going to say at least as much as how you're going to say it. I've learned I need to think of the bartender as a character more than just as a "voice."

You're going to need to practice your NPCs speaking patterns and phrases at least a little, outside the game, just as any actor would rehearse a role.

[Randomthom]

First, are you & your players enjoying themselves? If so you don't "need" more RP though if everyone would enjoy that then by all means, continue to ask this question.

I'm in an RP-heavy game where I find myself itching for combat or, gods, even a call for a dice roll sometimes so don't assume that this is what all of your players want.

Second, unless you & your party are all professional actors, voice or otherwise and have taken part in improv classes etc. then don't compare yourselves to Critical Role. I love CR but it isn't fair to place that burden on yourself or others. I'd always rather people ask themselves "how can I make my game more fun for me & my players" than "how can I make my game more like critical role?"

I'll disagree with those who call CR out as "putting on a show". Campaign 1 was already running as a private campaign when it was suggested that they try streaming it. The absolute condition that the "cast" (i.e. DM & players) put on that was that they didn't change the format of their game. They wouldn't compromise on the game itself, insisting that if it stopped feeling like a game, they'd stop streaming it. I'd argue they've kept that same spirit throughout.

Placing CR on a pedestal also has the unfortunate side-effect of making people think that RP = doing a voice. This isn't a criticism of the CR players (who actually bring a lot of character alongside the voice) but of those who watch it and think that this is roleplay. I'd argue that the most important thing you can do as a roleplayer is to try to use your character to bring out other people's backstories (and hope that they reciprocate). There are few things more disheartening than one player getting their moment to reveal something important to their character and nobody reacting or worse yet, actively not listening.

Having said all of that, I'll actually try to answer your question but in general terms since I don't know your current table & players at all.

1. Backstory isn't as important as people think. What IS important is a characters goals and reasons for that goal (which can be explained by backstory but shouldn't need reams of writing to explain it).

2. Find ways* to encourage players taking an active interest in EACH OTHER'S characters. When you give that character a spotlight, try to involve one or more other PCs in that moment, maybe the fighter needs to get from A to B very quickly, the Wizard can teleport but they'll (hopefully) ask why. Good RP'ers will do this naturally, others might need prompting to remind them that there are numerous cool stories yet to be told.
* These ways should include a session 0 and extra OOC reminders explicitly telling them to do this.

3. Refer to their individual skills & knowledges as often as you can, even make extra stuff up so long as it doesn't contradict what they've given you. "Gadork, you know these hills and forests well since your tribe spent some time here on their gradual nomadic traverse to the northern plains. You recall the night the Manticores attacked particularly well."

4. Emphasise that combat doesn't have to be the answer, even remind the players of this OOC. One trick that helped me was an AngryGM article insisting "there is no such thing as a combat encounter" by which he means that every creature wants something and combat is just one way to resolve that tension. A hungry pack of wolves might not attack if you throw them a leg of owlbear you had stashed, a giant spider might just be defending her eggs and won't attack if the PCs stick to the other side of her cave as they pass through, that guard just wants to get home safe & sound to his family and will gratefully look the other way or let the PCs bruise him up to make it look real. Always think about what the NPCs/Monsters want in any given situation and constantly re-evaluate it if a fight does break out. Very few fights with intelligent beings will be to the death.

5. Branching off the last one, have NPCs act like they're real people, humanise them in every way possible. If the PCs are super-rude to the King, have them arrested & thrown in the stocks for a day** to teach them some manners. Players have the tendency to act like the world will do what they want if they roll well and don't usually think of the consequences. Remind them of the consequences. The more they feel like the world is real, the more they will act as if it is so. They'll kill an unnamed guard but a single detail might give them pause, a name, a wedding ring, a crayon drawing by a child in their pocket. That turns it into a moment that brings out the character's personalities.
**Make it clear this is the punishment before trying to arrest them or players will definitely resist, fearing that the punishment will be execution or similar

[Sigreid]

The only thing it takes, and the thing it must have is the people at the table being into it. If either the DM or the players aren't interested in the RP and want to get to the next puzzle or bit of violence, it won't happen and attempts to make it happen go over well.

Beyond that, some DMs have too firm in their mind how the story is supposed to go. If that's the case, then from a player perspective it's likely that the RP will start to seem pointless and no one will want to do it.

So ingredients:

1. A DM that is flexible and willing and able to ad lib where the story goes, even if it goes completely away from the game he thought he was running.
2. Players that are interested in engaging with the world on a social level, and are willing to be at least somewhat self motivated.

[Sorinth]

This is for sure something you need to discuss with your group more then anything as it's very much a case of everybody being on the same page with what they want/expect from the game.

The thing about CR beyond the whole being professional actors/actresses is that they focus on each others stories. You see it especially in campaign 2 where every player is way more interested in uncovering each others storyline then they are with their own storyline. So the key take away here as a player, if you want more RP, focus your attention on the other players characters/storyline. The simple fact is people are more likely to engage in things they care about, so don't expect them to engage and care about your character if you don't care/engage with their character.

[Composer99]

1. Backstory isn't as important as people think. What IS important is a characters goals and reasons for that goal (which can be explained by backstory but shouldn't need reams of writing to explain it).


Yes. Two or three bullet points of backstory, especially ones that the DM can actually use in the game, are gold.

Ideally, backstory provides a little bit of the following:
- Accounting for why a character is an adventurer and not something else in the game world
;
- A little bit of flavour;
- Something the DM can weave into the game, either for flavour or for adventure hooks or both. (But especially for adventure hooks.)

It doesn't have to be much.

Apropos of Critical Role, this does not need to be a tragic story, although there's nothing wrong with a PC's backstory if it is.

[Waterdeep Merch]

Just plan an entire session without combat or puzzles. This often comes up organically anyway. Have several NPC's that aren't actively hostile that the players can interact with. Roleplay these yourself.

If you start doing it, they'll start doing it. I mean no offense, but often the issue with players not roleplaying comes down to the DM not giving them anything to work with. If you're animated and engaging, talking deliberately towards them as though they were their characters, I've yet to see the player that doesn't respond in kind.

[Segev]

(2) Third-person RP (so player saying "I think that my character would say that we're not trying to harm anyone here") is a possibility that might help some players. The most important part of RP is not to talk in-character. The most important part of RP is to care about the story/characters/... and not just about the mechanics/game/...

Just as an example, last night I played in the first session of a game where we were, for part of it, trying to find and preemptively defuse situations that could lead to rioting during a public event. One of the things I did was have my character spread the rumor/notion that only losers turn to violence rather than expressing themselves with words. Losers who are ineloquent boors that nobody should listen to nor respect. (The likely rioters in this case were largely affiliated with a loose subculture that fancy themselves to be - and in many cases are - artists who express edgy/raw/countercultural ideas with cutting imagery. So "use your words to prove yourself" and "don't be uncool" were both effective themes.) I did not give a speech, myself, nor pick the words my 16-charisma, trained-in-Persuasion character would use. I just outlined his strategy and what he was trying to accomplish. I believe this was very satisfying RP for all of us at the table.

Another character teleported to the top of a lamppost or similar vantage and looked explicitly for unnatural crowd movements or other signs of trouble. This approach to problem-solving is very "her," and told the DM what sorts of information he could give her. It was RP, even if her player didn't say more than a little bit about her method and why she was using it.

[Imbalance]

I mean, how hard can it be to come up with half a dozen theatre majors from among your friends with careers in entertainment that include production and extensive voice acting credits who will commit to four sponsored hours of zany make-believe every week?

[EggKookoo]

I mean, how hard can it be to come up with half a dozen theatre majors from among your friends with careers in entertainment that include production and extensive voice acting credits who will commit to four sponsored hours of zany make-believe every week?

If there's a steady paycheck in it, I'll (make-)believe anything you say.

[Kurt Kurageous]

I mean, how hard can it be to come up with half a dozen theatre majors from among your friends with careers in entertainment that include production and extensive voice acting credits who will commit to four sponsored hours of zany make-believe every week? Missing blue text for sarcasm, but nailing the reason why we don't have games like critical role.

What amazes me is Mercer's juggling of the VTT. I've thought he doesn't do it, and has someone off camera taking cues.

[Xervous]

Missing blue text for sarcasm, but nailing the reason why we don't have games like critical role.

What amazes me is Mercer's juggling of the VTT. I've thought he doesn't do it, and has someone off camera taking cues.

Maybe he got training from one of the Starcraft coaches. Hits that 200 APM.

[Damon_Tor]

I saw it pointed out the other day that the reason Critical Role and other well known D&D shows seem so amazing is the primarily RP driven games. And that is difficult to find sometimes. And what was further observed is that in those games we love? The players drive the RP forward as much (if not more) than the DM. So I am wondering. From both a player and a DM perspective? How do you push further RP into a game?

The best way I've found to draw out roleplay is to ask for everyone to have a "voice" for their character. When they speak in character, they speak with that voice. It doesn't even have to be substantially different from their own normal voice, so long as they think about it and get in their characters' headspace. I've got one player right now whose character's voice is basically just her own voice but more sarcastic and kind of mean, and that's fine, we all know when she's in character and it works great. Other players do a lot more, with accents and other mannerisms, but no matter how deep you take it, finding the character's voice is a huge part of making roleplay happen.

[Keravath]

Some comments ...

1) To echo several other comments ... Critical Role is professional entertainment, professionally produced, by a group of voice actors. Each and every one of them is used to getting into playing roles, it is their job and professional life. It wouldn't matter if it was a D&D character or any of the other paid gigs that they have had. This is why they can be decent at role playing, do a good job when they want to and have no problem performing in front of a group of other people.

2) I've been playing a long time with a lot of different people and some folks get into the role playing part in the first person, some get into from the third person and others just say "This is what my character does" and go along with the story. There is nothing wrong with any of the types of players.

On the DM front, there are those who try to use voices and actions to distinguish NPCs and others who just describe and tell the players what is happening. Some DMs try to bring NPCs to "life" and others just tell the players the situation. Neither style of DMing is bad as long as the players and DM enjoy playing.

3) To the OP question .. a DM can encourage more DMing by

- creating interesting and different NPCs ... not shopkeeper #1, #2 etc but Merchant Baris, Stallminder Georgian Stiles, Corner Vendor Lydia ... each described differently, each with perhaps unique quirks and some unique goods, each with a bit of a story (even if the DM makes it up as they go along).

- create interesting and different encounters to go with the NPCs - encounters that require the players to interact, to respond to the NPCs. If the NPCs talk to the player in the first person, the player is more likely to respond in the first person and eventually respond as their character might respond.

- create situations where the players are encouraged to interact with each other in character. This is more challenging but can be done by drawing on elements of the character backstories and pull them into alignment or opposition with other characters.

Role playing is getting a player to interact and respond in character with the other players and the DM - it is up to the DM to create situations where this can happen. Getting individual players to interact with each other from a role playing perspective without DM intervention can be challenging simply because some players do NOT like it. Some players are focused on the story and the world interactions and other than knowing that other party members have their back in encounters they may not be at all interested in interacting with the other players. If that is the case, it is not something that a DM can force, they can only encourage.

[Garimeth]

As a DM, I quickly bore of combat. It's a chore. If I could find a co-DM who would handle the running of combat rounds while I ran a monster or two, and then took over NPCs while I ran the non-combat RP, that would be amazing.

But because I loathe running combat, my games tend to be about 7 to 3 in favor of RP instead. I've gone three or four sessions without rolling for initiative. Though eventually, the players start jonsing to roll the dice, so we roll back into it (and I remember all over again why I hate running combat).

So basically, I just force my players to RP just to move the plot along. Between the Social and Exploration pillars that have minimal rules compared to combat, I can get a lot more free-form with what's going on. Also, since I learned at the feet of a master storyteller, I tend to riff on the story, letting it explode outward from what the players are providing me. Some of the best ideas on how to overcome an obstacle have come from my players, and I regularly overwrite what I had planned out with their plan instead. Sometimes I like to confound them though, and they try to work a puzzle, and give me these great ideas, and I stick with my dumb one, just so they don't catch on that I'm ripping off them.

TL;DR: stop running combat, and start talking...

A man after my own heart.

The DM sets the table, the players have to decide if they like what's on it - but it helps if what's on the table is both plentiful and tasty, and (key here) expected. I DM the same way, and all my players know it.

[Tanarii]

- creating interesting and different NPCs ... not shopkeeper #1, #2 etc but Merchant Baris, Stallminder Georgian Stiles, Corner Vendor Lydia ... each described differently, each with perhaps unique quirks and some unique goods, each with a bit of a story (even if the DM makes it up as they go along). It always makes me laugh when people reference shopkeepers. What kind of encounters are you having with these shopkeepers? :smallbiggrin:

Maybe a good mystery investigation ...

too bad D&D doesn't do that very well.

[Unoriginal]

It always makes me laugh when people reference shopkeepers. What kind of encounters are you having with these shopkeepers? :smallbiggrin:

Talking with them, learning what's up in the region, maybe they have some info to find a new adventure, clues about the current bad guys or events the PCs are involved with, maybe they'll help the PCs, maybe they'll be jerks, maybe they'll help illustrate what's wrong with the place (ex: none of the shopkeeps accept silver coins because the local tyrant forbad using that metal for specific reasons..., or the shopkeeps offer to trade the entirety of what the PCs want for their horses because a ton of the city's mounts died, or...).

Any character can be interesting and serve a narrative purpose.

I know you hate the concept of Dungeons & Dragons as a narrative but the fact is that any told or recorded successions of events is by definition a narration.

[Tanarii]

I don't hate D&D as a narrative, I hate it as a DM trying to tell a story, or just faffing about without meaningful encounters.

Which is usually what's going on when people are putting shopkeepers in table time. Shopping expeditions should be downtime.

[PhoenixPhyre]

I don't hate D&D as a narrative, I hate it as a DM trying to tell a story, or just faffing about without meaningful encounters.

Which is usually what's going on when people are putting shopkeepers in table time. Shopping expeditions should be downtime.

I generally agree, but there is a lot of fun to be had (with the right group) at the narrative level without invoking mechanics. Without "encounters" that can be assigned a difficulty.

I'm halfway through a fully RP, no mechanics "downtime arc" that's grown out of a little thing. No difficulty, but the players are playing their characters and getting immersed in the world and their backstories are coming into play.

Another game saw some fully narrative sessions that ended up shaping the campaign going forward and illuminating why the BBEG had it out for them at that point.

[Unoriginal]

I don't hate D&D as a narrative, I hate it as a DM trying to tell a story, or just faffing about without meaningful encounters.

Which is usually what's going on when people are putting shopkeepers in table time. Shopping expeditions should be downtime.

That depends entirely if there is something relevant happening during shopping or not. And even "establish the feel or nature of the place" can make them relevant.

[stoutstien]

I don't hate D&D as a narrative, I hate it as a DM trying to tell a story, or just faffing about without meaningful encounters.

Which is usually what's going on when people are putting shopkeepers in table time. Shopping expeditions should be downtime.
Depending on what they are shopping for. Information or contraband come to mind as something where the players actions/decisions can have a pretty lasting impact. Falls in the same category of taverns. The shop/tavern is just the setting for the encounter not the tension.

[Garimeth]

It always makes me laugh when people reference shopkeepers. What kind of encounters are you having with these shopkeepers? :smallbiggrin:

Maybe a good mystery investigation ...

too bad D&D doesn't do that very well.

LOL, let me start by saying that in general, I agree 100%.

In my current game which plays twice a month for about 4 hours and is on session 19 or so, I think I have only had three interactions with shop keepers that got table time.

1. In a prologue session the druid tried to buy some semi rare materials for a potion (homebrew) he wanted to craft. There was an interaction he over heard waiting in line to pay where the people in front of him were flipping out about a shortage of another rare mat, and it was how the characters got foreshadowing about a deadly disease creeping in from the frontiers, and how to cure it w/o magic.

2. They went to buy a boat, and found out that their mysterious benefactor (who they believe may or may not be dead)had already purchased and registered a boat in their name, three years ago, and in the boat they find a letter referencing events that have taken place since he "died".

3. Low magic items world and a character wanted to purchase some magic items so we had a little haggling scene with a shopkeeper.

Lol, so that's it... in a year of playing. I agree with you the best RP comes from people/NPCs with personal impact on the characters, their interests, and their quests, and hopefully with each other. I handle everyday logistics with a handwave, downtime, and them adjusting gold and inventories on their sheets.

[Hael]

Encounters with shopkeepers are fine when it provides a narrative hook. Like you are in a city for the first time, and everything is new.
It quickly becomes boring and extraneous when you've seen the same blacksmith 10 times, and you want to repair your armor. A good DM will automate much of the latter but not the former.

And yea, everyone plays DnD for different reasons. You couldn't pay me to sit with a table like Critical role. That sort of thing bores me to death. Give me a good meatgrinder eternal dungeon any day of the week.

[Garimeth]

Encounters with shopkeepers are fine when it provides a narrative hook. Like you are in a city for the first time, and everything is new.
It quickly becomes boring and extraneous when you've seen the same blacksmith 10 times, and you want to repair your armor. A good DM will automate much of the latter but not the former.

And yea, everyone plays DnD for different reasons. You couldn't pay me to sit with a table like Critical role. That sort of thing bores me to death. Give me a good meatgrinder eternal dungeon any day of the week.

I like them both, but depends on the group I'm with and the atmosphere. For a long campaign, I want it RP heavy.

For like a one shot or a long weekend/camping trip game? Lets grab some beer, meat to throw on the grill, and start up the meatgrinder.

[TyGuy]

If you're animated and engaging, talking deliberately towards them as though they were their characters, I've yet to see the player that doesn't respond in kind.

I have 1.5 of such players. I'm kinda burnt out on trying to coax RP out of those two. It's not going to happen. It is what it is and we keep trucking along though.

[Waterdeep Merch]

I have 1.5 of such players. I'm kinda burnt out on trying to coax RP out of those two. It's not going to happen. It is what it is and we keep trucking along though.

Oof, that's rough. It's just not in some people, I guess. My condolences.

[Merudo]

Mainly that as voice actors they tend to lean on "funny voices" and generally talky-time instead of Roleplaying.


In my experience, every memorable roleplayed character had a distinctive voice. Although admittedly Critical Role goes a bit overboard with it.

And what does "general talky-time" means?



But also the show propagates the misunderstanding that characterization is roleplaying. Which is a mistake shown by many in this thread, based on suggestions being made. Making decisions for your character in the fantasy environment is roleplaying. Characterization, which includes onscreen or offscreen asides which have nothing to do with the game at hand to showcase your characters personality can of course be lots of fun. But it isn't the same thing.

Roleplaying is show, don't tell. Characterization is tell, don't show.

Characterization means conveying information about a character, which can be done through roleplay. I think it might be more useful to differentiate explicit vs implicit characterization:


Direct or explicit characterization: the player literally tells what their character is like
Indirect or implicit characterization: the character is revealed through the character's actions, speech, appearance, mannerisms and interaction with other characters


In the context of tabletop rpgs, roleplaying is indirect characterization.

[Keravath]

It always makes me laugh when people reference shopkeepers. What kind of encounters are you having with these shopkeepers? :smallbiggrin:

Maybe a good mystery investigation ...

too bad D&D doesn't do that very well.

Sure :) ... but even the most mundane NPC should be interesting. I would have thought that here of all places it would go without saying that plot relevant NPCs should also be interesting. If a DM is using Quest giver #1, Quest giver #2, Quest destination NPC then there is a much bigger issue :)

[Tanarii]

If a DM is using Quest giver #1, Quest giver #2, Quest destination NPC then there is a much bigger issue :)Ill do you one better ... the solution should be to cut the meeting with quest givers out completely and the DM to summarize in a sentence or two. Then cut to the chase (adventure).

Table time is too valuable to use faffing around on cutscenes. :smalltongue:

I'm the kind of person who skipped all the long cutscenes when playing video games like the later FF games :smallamused:

[PhoenixPhyre]

Ill do you one better ... the solution should be to cut the meeting with quest givers out completely and the DM to summarize in a sentence or two. Then cut to the chase (adventure).

Table time is too valuable to use faffing around on cutscenes. :smalltongue:

I'm the kind of person who skipped all the long cutscenes when playing video games like the later FF games :smallamused:

If talking to the quest givers is just a non-interactive cutscene, then sure. But that's rarely the case.

If all I wanted was to have plot-less "beat those people up and take their stuff" games, I'd play any number of computer games that do it immensely better than is possible at a table top.

Table-top games let me interact with people in a way computer games cannot (being pre-programmed and all). One of my current games just saw the party nearly attack their "quest giver" after they've become super suspicious of his motives (for good reason, actually), but decide at the last minute to play along for now (knowing they'll likely have to take him down at another time). That's part of the adventure, and the game would be way worse if they didn't have that chance. My other group doesn't even really have quest givers--I find that style peters out by early T2. They're forging their own quests for personal reasons. And those reasons and the people that they interact with are what are important. The dungeons and adventure locations are only important to the degree that they cause alterations to the progress toward someone's goals (forward, backward, twisty, that's not important). Random sidequests just to grind levels or loot...those aren't important to that game.

[The Deej]

I saw it pointed out the other day that the reason Critical Role and other well known D&D shows seem so amazing is the primarily RP driven games. And that is difficult to find sometimes. And what was further observed is that in those games we love? The players drive the RP forward as much (if not more) than the DM. So I am wondering. From both a player and a DM perspective? How do you push further RP into a game?

I can't really opine on critical role, but I have successfully increased the level of RP at my own table with occasional direct RP prompts. My players started out mostly quiet, but every so often, I would give a "soft nudge of sorts". Stuff like, "okay you are {here}, what do you do?" or I might give a bit of 'box text' to set up a scene, and go around the table asking for reactions. I don't twist arms too hard, but eventually my players started to get the hints, and said simple stuff. After a couple months of sessions (5 or 6ish for my table) they got more comfortable, and progressively better.

So, my general advice is to try using prompts and 'nudges' with the obvious expectation that you want your players to RP something out. And also, to be patient. Might take some time to happen.

[Man_Over_Game]

This ongoing GITP thread is on a very similar topic: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?629434-Dealing-with-Action-amp-Drama-Avoidance-in-PCs

Essentially, it's talking about the issue between players trying to win through treating it as a strategy game vs. having them take risks and act in-character for the sake of developing relationships and interactions.

[Elandel]

What helped our groups, especially with new people, to let all of them write four rumors about their character - two are true, two are bullsh*t and every player randomly get's two rumors about his mates in spe.
Always gave a nice intro, because especially if the rumors are interesting / dangerous / embarassing / ... peeople want to ask about it.

[Tawmis]

I saw it pointed out the other day that the reason Critical Role and other well known D&D shows seem so amazing is the primarily RP driven games. And that is difficult to find sometimes. And what was further observed is that in those games we love? The players drive the RP forward as much (if not more) than the DM. So I am wondering. From both a player and a DM perspective? How do you push further RP into a game?

I feel like 5e really helps with this - if people do their FLAWS, TRAITS and BONDS.

This helps give a feel to the character.

An important thing to also remember is you're playing a CHARACTER. You're NOT playing YOURSELF.

So embrace the character.

For example - in one game, I am playing a Human Fighter (for Storm King's Thunder). His background was that he was a Squire for a Knight. And one night they were ambushed and my character (inexperienced at the time) was being overwhelmed - so the Knight rushed over and saved him - at the cost of his own life. My character felt so terrible - that he took his armor and his name - and now is out there doing heroic deeds using the Knight's name - so the Knight gets credit and always remembered. These acts of heroism are - at times, perilous. Me, as a PLAYER know - I shouldn't be doing some of the things my character is doing - but my character believes the higher the risk - the better chance that bards will sing of the deed, and the Knight's name will always be remembered.

In another game, I am playing a Kobold Rogue (for Out of the Abyss) - when I speak as him, I raise the pitch of my voice (sort of like Smeagel) and he believes that a red gem that he found was handed to him by the gods (especially after encountering a large red dragon and learning that the egg is missing - he believes finding the egg and either raising it or returning it - will grant him great powers from the Dragons). He's twitchy and weird - spins the gem to determine which way to go and what to do.

You need to embrace these types of things. Make the character something you're not. Does he have an accent? Is he afraid of something? Does he have a drinking problem?

Give the character some flavor. Your DM will probably follow, as will the others. You raise the stakes, the others may follow.

That said - keep in mind, not all D&D players are into theatrics or voice actors - and may just want to be there to roll dice and hang out. But no one should, ideally, hamper your enjoyment of enhancing your own gaming experience.

[KorvinStarmast]

Mainly that as voice actors they tend to lean on "funny voices" and generally talky-time instead of Roleplaying. But I also find the pacing incredibly tedious. Even the players in the videos show visible signs of boredom regularly. Amen

You couldn't pay me to sit with a table like Critical role. That sort of thing bores me to death. Give me a good meatgrinder eternal dungeon any day of the week. Some days one is OK, and some days others is OK.

How to increase RP? I ask the players, most of the time, questions in their character name.

"Tell me, Hetzer, what is it that you want?" I ask in the voice of the succubus who looks like a hot dwarven female.

I also encourage people to not speak of their characters in third person, but I have found that for some people, that is as far as they are comfortable with relating to that charcter. Others, like me, go first person.

As others have noted, make the NPCs that you'll spend screen time on have names and particular quirks, likes, or dislikes.