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View Full Version : Optimization Sources of darkvision without magic items?



gnollgnoll
2021-03-22, 06:08 PM
I'm rolling a halfling soul knife rogue into a Candlekeep/AL Masters campaign taking Mobile on first ASI.

No one needs a rogue without dark vision, right? So the options are either obtain Goggles of Night or multiclass into something that gives darkvision.

Possible multiclass options are: twilight cleric or shadow sorcerer (1 level dip), genie or hexblade warlock or artificer who makes his own goggles (2 level dip). There are 3-level dip options but it slows progression in a main class so much I don't like them at all.

I somewhat like a cleric option because it gives medium armor proficiency (I know there's a cool medium armor somewhere in Candlekeep), Guidance and Healing Word a couple times a day. Sorcerer, in the other hand, gives Shield and Absorb Elements both of which are cool spells and possibly Booming blade/GFB and Minor Illusion.

Genie warlock gives some damage once per round which makes up for loss of sneak attack progression. Hexblade does the same once per short rest and also gives armor proficiency.

What do you think, what would be a better option?

Hannibal78
2021-03-22, 06:15 PM
Eldricth adept feat and darkvision, if you dont want to do multiclass.

gnollgnoll
2021-03-22, 06:36 PM
Eldricth adept feat and darkvision, if you dont want to do multiclass.
Eldritch adept requires spellcasting or pact magic and soul knife rogue surprisingly lacks both
edit: typo

Theodoxus
2021-03-22, 06:37 PM
Fighter dip for Blind Fighting Fighting Style? It's only a 10 foot range, but it's always worked amazing for my druids in giant spider wild shape... It also has the advantage of working in magical darkness and against invisible creatures.

Bobthewizard
2021-03-22, 07:06 PM
Fighter dip for Blind Fighting Fighting Style? It's only a 10 foot range, but it's always worked amazing for my druids in giant spider wild shape... It also has the advantage of working in magical darkness and against invisible creatures.

You can also get that with the Fighting Initiate feat from Tasha's and so wouldn't need to multi-class.

If you want armor too, I'd recommend Hexblade. Cha attacks, Hexblade curse, Booming blade, Shield and Hex, then Mask of Many Faces and Devil's Sight. Avoid EB and agonizing blast since you can't sneak attack with them.

Unoriginal
2021-03-22, 08:06 PM
No one needs a rogue without dark vision, right?

Wrong.

Rogues don't need Darkvision. No class does.

Theodoxus
2021-03-22, 08:11 PM
You can also get that with the Fighting Initiate feat from Tasha's and so wouldn't need to multi-class.

If you want armor too, I'd recommend Hexblade. Cha attacks, Hexblade curse, Booming blade, Shield and Hex, then Mask of Many Faces and Devil's Sight. Avoid EB and agonizing blast since you can't sneak attack with them.

Yeah, but he's planning on taking Mobile at 4th, so that's 8th level before FI... of course, by then he'll have learned Unoriginal's point of not needing darkvision... so it might be the best option afterall.

whateew
2021-03-22, 08:12 PM
You can always beg your local druid for the spell when needed

Greywander
2021-03-22, 10:38 PM
Do note that the Devil's Sight invocation only allows you to see in darkness; it does nothing for dim light, and devs have said this is intentional. That said, this is still useful in its own way, and if you do get darkvision it combos nicely by letting you see normally at all light levels.

I don't know that you really need darkvision, but if you're determined to get it anyway there's a lot to gain from either a cleric or sorcerer dip. Cleric gets you some nice support spells and can go sword and board, sorcerer gets you useful arcane spells and cantrips, and you can pick up Booming Blade for melee (doublecheck if your DM will let it work with your soul knives, SCAG version should work fine, but Tasha's version does not, another reason to just use SCAG version).

JonBeowulf
2021-03-22, 10:53 PM
You CHOSE a race that doesn't have darkvision.
You CHOSE a class that doesn't start with any sort of magical ability.
But you want darkvision.

I don't get it.

If you really want to stay with your choices, then go Arcane Trickster and get it at level 7. If you really want darkvision, then change your build.

Keravath
2021-03-23, 01:55 PM
Wrong.

Rogues don't need Darkvision. No class does.

Although I will agree that any class can be played without darkvision. Every game I have played in and every time I have played a rogue, they were far more effective with darkvision or ideally devils sight than they were without it.

Do they NEED it? Maybe not, depending on your definition of need ... but it is extremely useful.

On my variant human rogue, I multiclassed into warlock specifically for devils sight (and story reasons). I did not want to try to be a rogue infiltrating a building or exploring a dungeon requiring a torch to light the way, announce my presence to the world, and make any investment the character had in stealth entirely useless. I also didn't want disadvantage on perception checks and other skill checks when operating in the dark. (Why did I pick human? - because it fitted the backstory - their starting feat was observant)

If you happen to play with a DM that ignores the effect of different lighting conditions then of course it doesn't matter if you have darkvision - if your DM pays attention and uses the rules related to being unable to see then darkvision can be somewhere between very useful and indispensable, particularly for a rogue. So I understand the OPs point of view.

P.S. To the OP - I think you covered most of the sources of darkvision - 3 levels in a caster class with the darkvision spell is also an option. The easiest is a single level of twilight cleric or shadow sorcerer and the most return on investment is likely warlock since you get quite a bit for 2 levels.

Theodoxus
2021-03-23, 02:21 PM
Could always pick up Skulker if you're worried about dim light rather than pitch darkness (skulking in buildings typically isn't darker than dim; dungeons obviously are different... though dancing lights helps with that without giving you immediately away like a torch would... though I get that, that's another feat and possibly dip into a different class to grab the cantrip.

But the few times I've played a human rogue, I grabbed Skulker or MI: Find Familiar for an owl and used the owl's eyesight to peer into the darkness. (plus fly-by Help is borderline broken...)

Battlebooze
2021-03-23, 03:59 PM
Level 3 of Gloom Stalker gets you darkvision out to 60, along with some other really nice goodies for a rogue.

Invisibility when in darkness vs Darkvision is really handy, along with that free bonus attack at the start of every combat.