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smart thog
2007-11-09, 10:11 PM
Anyone have any spells that could kill without a saving throw that are low leveled? here are some.

Mage hand. Grab the gall balder and break it against the ribs. will damage heart, lungs, and bloodstream. It does not matter how well attached it is, because mage hand uses infinite power on anything less then 5 pounds.

Animate water. Use it on the blood stream and it looks like something out of alien.

any others like this?

PaladinBoy
2007-11-09, 10:28 PM
:smallconfused: .......... I don't think that works. You'd have to have quite the silver tongue to convince your DM to let you do that.

Green Bean
2007-11-09, 10:34 PM
Frankly, if you have a DM who would actually let you do this, then give me his address so I can smack him upside the head.

Cruiser1
2007-11-09, 10:35 PM
Mage hand. Grab the gall balder and break it against the ribs.
Won't work because like most spells Mage Hand (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/mageHand.htm) requires line of effect. You can't grab the bladder directly because the skin and armor are in the way.

Fat Daddy
2007-11-09, 10:35 PM
Ummm....no.


Mage Hand
Transmutation
Level: Brd 0, Sor/Wiz 0
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One nonmagical, unattended object weighing up to 5 lb.
Duration: Concentration
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

You point your finger at an object and can lift it and move it at will from a distance. As a move action, you can propel the object as far as 15 feet in any direction, though the spell ends if the distance between you and the object ever exceeds the spell’s range.

Emphasis added mine. My gall bladder, and indeed all the rest of my organs, are considered 'attended'.

I would assume Animate Water has a similar restriction.

OneWinged4ngel
2007-11-09, 10:47 PM
See, those aren't examples of killer cantrips. They're examples of cheating.

AslanCross
2007-11-09, 10:50 PM
Just like how casting light on someone's eyes doesn't blind him, you can't mess someone's organs around if you don't have line of effect to him---unless the spell specifically says it messes up the organs of a target person.

And even if what you describe is permissible by RAW, I'd still adjudicate that your telekinetic surgery would call for a Fort save.

Closest thing I've seen to a killer cantrip is an electric jolt launched by a PC wizard on a hobgoblin boss. Knocked him into the negatives.

There is a spell that does what you're trying to do with animate water, though. Extract water elemental forcibly extracts the water from a creature. If the damage is fatal, a water elemental comes out of the creature.

TheOOB
2007-11-09, 11:07 PM
Mage hand also only moves up to 5lbs, 5lbs is not enough force to cause much damage to anything.

Light doesn't blind people because it's touch range and needs to be cast on an object, and the light is dim enough that it probally would do anything. Casting daylight on someones helmet though, that might do something.

Idea Man
2007-11-09, 11:25 PM
Use a grease spell on a slope, preferably with a trap at the end. Classic low-level way to kill someone.

Has to be a cantrip, maybe? Well, use prestidigitation to make the ladies room at a wizard convention say "Men". I bet the first wizard to fall for that will kill somebody. :smallbiggrin:

Jack Zander
2007-11-10, 12:34 AM
Just like how casting light on someone's eyes doesn't blind him, you can't mess someone's organs around if you don't have line of effect to him---unless the spell specifically says it messes up the organs of a target person.

No, casting light on someone's eyes would most definitely blind them. The problem is you can't cast light on their eyes in the first place.

MrNexx
2007-11-10, 01:13 AM
No, casting light on someone's eyes would most definitely blind them. The problem is you can't cast light on their eyes in the first place.

Cast it on their glasses... or their hood.

Jack Zander
2007-11-10, 01:25 AM
Cast it on their glasses... or their hood.

Hmmm... that's a good take on it. I'm pretty sure that would work in fact. Does the object need to be attended though?

EDIT: The only other problem is by RAW, light can never blind someone no matter how close the light is to their face. And I'm not talking about the spell, I'm talking about any light sources at all.

PlatinumJester
2007-11-10, 05:31 AM
Caltrops. I remember when I was a level 5 Wizard and was on 3 HP, only had Caltrops and Mage Hand left and none of the other party members were able to help me.

So big bad ass soldiers on low HP is running after me and I whip out my longbow (cos I'm an elf). Of course I suck so I take a 5ft step back ad he misses his AoO. I then cast caltrops in the space where I was. He lumbers forwards and provokes an AoO from an NPC druid alley. He is hit but continues anyway and treads on to the caltrop...and dies from the 1 damage taken.

Another time I had a Duskblade with Caltrops (my DM houseruled it) and I basically placed them wherever I could. Don't under-estimate half speed and 1damage.

Amaneusis is good for copying arrest warents and maps.

Silent Portal is good for getting a surprise round of for sneaking around.