Super hero build? (Maybe a Redemption Paladin?)

[Greywander]

The paladin is probably the closest fantasy analogue to your typical Superman-style flying brick super hero. It gets a lot of the things you'd expect on such a character, but doesn't perfectly capture the concept, as the paladin is a different, if similar, concept. Sorcerer also does a decent job of encompassing the broader variety of super heroes, not just the flying bricks but all the variety of powers you see in things like the X-Men or Justice League. Various other classes can be used to get specific things depending on the specific concept you have in mind; for now I'm just focusing on the archetypal flying brick.

Superman has a variety of extraneous super powers, such as heat vision (Scorching Ray?) or freezing breath (Cone of Cold?), which is why it might make sense to build him as a sorcadin. But for just the foundational elements of a flying brick, here's what I would expect to see:

Super Toughness. High HP, high AC, good saves, damage reduction, and/or self-healing.
Super Strength. High melee damage, knockback, good grappling. Possibly fights unarmed.
Super Mobility. Flight preferred, jump good acceptable. Moderately high speed, ability to swim or climb as needed.
Super Protection. Anything that helps protect friendlies, including buffing AC/saves, granting temp HP, or taking damage in their place.

Paladin actually works as a fantastic base, giving us a lot of the things here. Paladins get almost everything under Super Toughness, though only specific subclasses get damage resistance, and Redemption even gets regeneration (though not until 15th level). HAM can give us some minor damage reduction, as well. Paladins also do very well in the melee damage department, using smites to supercharge their attacks. The Crusher feat can even give us some thematic knockback to demonstrate the power behind our blows. The Protection or Interception fighting styles can help us protect our allies. Paladins also get Lay on Hands and access to several healing spells that can be used on themselves or their allies. Paladins also share their auras with nearby allies.

Paladins are actually really good at representing this heroic archetype, but they do fall short in a few areas. They get basically nothing with regard to Super Mobility. Mobile can help, but we're getting to the point where we're running our feat tax a bit high. Several sorcerer subclasses grant flight, though not until late. Warlock has an invocation for at-will Jump, but you have to be 9th level. Monk is the mobility class (though lacking built-in flight), but synergizes poorly with paladin. Champion fighters get a boost to jump distance, but not until 7th level. If we're willing to expend spell slots, there's always Expeditious Retreat, Jump, Spiderclimb, Levitate, and Fly, which can all be had as early as 5th level and are all on the sorcerer list (surprisingly, Longstrider is not).

Then there's the weapon of choice for flying bricks: fists. Paladins do have access to the Unarmed fighting style, but the main issue is that you need to use a weapon in order to smite. A permissive DM might allow you to smite with your fists anyway, and you might be able to get around this by using a natural weapon as well. Mechanically, there's not really much reason not to use a warhammer or similar, as this will get you more damage than the Unarmed style while allowing you to choose a different style and smite. You could also fight using a shield, like Captain America does, but this requires another feat (Tavern Brawler) to make it viable, so again it's just not worth it.

We could also ditch paladin and use another class as our base, however this seems like it could be a lot more difficult since paladin already gets us so much of what we wanted. Monk has high mobility and, eventually, some of the best saves in the game with Diamond Soul, and is tailored as an unarmed fighter. Monks, however, often dump STR, which is off-theme for this concept, and monks aren't otherwise all that resilient. Fighter can get us some nice things, but has trouble in the department of saving throws, and I think ultimately ends up giving less than the paladin does. Barbarian might be oddly viable, being resilient with Rage, having decent melee damage, and some mobility options like the eagle totem, but still lacks good saves.

Also, I just noticed that the Redemption paladin's capstone is passive, rather than once per long rest like other paladin capstones. That's it, we're going to go full Redemption paladin for this concept. The idea behind Redemption is to be a nonviolent pacifist, but it still works pretty well if you simply fight enemies one at a time so that all other enemies deal half damage to you and take damage in return.

Even before this epiphany, Redemption paladin still seemed like the best option. Between the regeneration making you much more resilient and being able to take damage in an ally's place, we're looking much better already. Since we already have a use for our reaction, we don't need the Interception or Protection styles, in which case I'd probably opt for Defense or Blind Fighting (because Justice... is blind! Impartial SMASH!). We'll definitely want to boost CHA to 20, which will cost at least two ASIs. HAM and Crusher are both half feats that can boost STR (Crusher can boost CON instead, so we could round off two odd scores this way), but we might be better off not maxing STR and hoping for a Belt of Giant's Strength. With just one ASI left, it's a tough pick. Inspiring Leader is on brand and highly effective, or we could take Skill Expert to boost our grappling potential. We could go vHuman or custom lineage to eke out another feat, but this will come at the cost of other race options. We still don't have much in terms of mobility, but perhaps that gap can be filled with magic items.

What are some ways this could be improved upon, especially with regards to mobility? HAM seems mostly redundant with the capstone, but HAM can be gotten much earlier where it's effectiveness is much more noticeable. So we could drop HAM for something else, like Mobile. We still need a way to fly or jump good, but that might require magic items. Would it make sense to build this as a grappler, and if so is there a way to get advantage on STR checks without multiclassing or relying on a friendly spellcaster?

[Unoriginal]

The paladin is probably the closest fantasy analogue to your typical Superman-style flying brick super hero. It gets a lot of the things you'd expect on such a character, but doesn't perfectly capture the concept, as the paladin is a different, if similar, concept. Sorcerer also does a decent job of encompassing the broader variety of super heroes, not just the flying bricks but all the variety of powers you see in things like the X-Men or Justice League. Various other classes can be used to get specific things depending on the specific concept you have in mind; for now I'm just focusing on the archetypal flying brick.

Superman has a variety of extraneous super powers, such as heat vision (Scorching Ray?) or freezing breath (Cone of Cold?), which is why it might make sense to build him as a sorcadin. But for just the foundational elements of a flying brick, here's what I would expect to see:

Super Toughness. High HP, high AC, good saves, damage reduction, and/or self-healing.
Super Strength. High melee damage, knockback, good grappling. Possibly fights unarmed.
Super Mobility. Flight preferred, jump good acceptable. Moderately high speed, ability to swim or climb as needed.
Super Protection. Anything that helps protect friendlies, including buffing AC/saves, granting temp HP, or taking damage in their place.

Paladin actually works as a fantastic base, giving us a lot of the things here. Paladins get almost everything under Super Toughness, though only specific subclasses get damage resistance, and Redemption even gets regeneration (though not until 15th level). HAM can give us some minor damage reduction, as well. Paladins also do very well in the melee damage department, using smites to supercharge their attacks. The Crusher feat can even give us some thematic knockback to demonstrate the power behind our blows. The Protection or Interception fighting styles can help us protect our allies. Paladins also get Lay on Hands and access to several healing spells that can be used on themselves or their allies. Paladins also share their auras with nearby allies.

Paladins are actually really good at representing this heroic archetype, but they do fall short in a few areas. They get basically nothing with regard to Super Mobility. Mobile can help, but we're getting to the point where we're running our feat tax a bit high. Several sorcerer subclasses grant flight, though not until late. Warlock has an invocation for at-will Jump, but you have to be 9th level. Monk is the mobility class (though lacking built-in flight), but synergizes poorly with paladin. Champion fighters get a boost to jump distance, but not until 7th level. If we're willing to expend spell slots, there's always Expeditious Retreat, Jump, Spiderclimb, Levitate, and Fly, which can all be had as early as 5th level and are all on the sorcerer list (surprisingly, Longstrider is not).

Then there's the weapon of choice for flying bricks: fists. Paladins do have access to the Unarmed fighting style, but the main issue is that you need to use a weapon in order to smite. A permissive DM might allow you to smite with your fists anyway, and you might be able to get around this by using a natural weapon as well. Mechanically, there's not really much reason not to use a warhammer or similar, as this will get you more damage than the Unarmed style while allowing you to choose a different style and smite. You could also fight using a shield, like Captain America does, but this requires another feat (Tavern Brawler) to make it viable, so again it's just not worth it.

We could also ditch paladin and use another class as our base, however this seems like it could be a lot more difficult since paladin already gets us so much of what we wanted. Monk has high mobility and, eventually, some of the best saves in the game with Diamond Soul, and is tailored as an unarmed fighter. Monks, however, often dump STR, which is off-theme for this concept, and monks aren't otherwise all that resilient. Fighter can get us some nice things, but has trouble in the department of saving throws, and I think ultimately ends up giving less than the paladin does. Barbarian might be oddly viable, being resilient with Rage, having decent melee damage, and some mobility options like the eagle totem, but still lacks good saves.

Also, I just noticed that the Redemption paladin's capstone is passive, rather than once per long rest like other paladin capstones. That's it, we're going to go full Redemption paladin for this concept. The idea behind Redemption is to be a nonviolent pacifist, but it still works pretty well if you simply fight enemies one at a time so that all other enemies deal half damage to you and take damage in return.

Even before this epiphany, Redemption paladin still seemed like the best option. Between the regeneration making you much more resilient and being able to take damage in an ally's place, we're looking much better already. Since we already have a use for our reaction, we don't need the Interception or Protection styles, in which case I'd probably opt for Defense or Blind Fighting (because Justice... is blind! Impartial SMASH!). We'll definitely want to boost CHA to 20, which will cost at least two ASIs. HAM and Crusher are both half feats that can boost STR (Crusher can boost CON instead, so we could round off two odd scores this way), but we might be better off not maxing STR and hoping for a Belt of Giant's Strength. With just one ASI left, it's a tough pick. Inspiring Leader is on brand and highly effective, or we could take Skill Expert to boost our grappling potential. We could go vHuman or custom lineage to eke out another feat, but this will come at the cost of other race options. We still don't have much in terms of mobility, but perhaps that gap can be filled with magic items.

What are some ways this could be improved upon, especially with regards to mobility? HAM seems mostly redundant with the capstone, but HAM can be gotten much earlier where it's effectiveness is much more noticeable. So we could drop HAM for something else, like Mobile. We still need a way to fly or jump good, but that might require magic items. Would it make sense to build this as a grappler, and if so is there a way to get advantage on STR checks without multiclassing or relying on a friendly spellcaster?

Personally, to make a Flying Brick a la Superman, I would go Protector Aasimar (thanks Tulok) Beast Barbarian.

Alternatively, a Protector Aasimar Psi Warrior with Unarmed fighting style would make a great Superman in his "strength, flight and durability are actually psychic powers" interpretation.

In both case, you would have a tough, physically strong flying unarmed combatant.

Superman may be an highly moral and hope-inspiring individual, his powers do not come from his will to do good or protect others, nor are they particularly tailored to do that.

To put it in other words: a Paladin decides they will change the world to their ideal form, and so they have power to help accomplish that, while Superman has power, and so he decides he will help change the world to his ideal form.

[Ogre Mage]

Flying bricks (super strength, toughness, flight) are arguably the most common superhero archetype. But I personally like the flying firepower archetype (energy blasts, flight). The Human Torch is a quintessential example of the flying firepower archetype.

This is very easy to build in 5E. The genie warlock gets wingless flight as a power at 6th level. The draconic sorcerer gets winged flight at 14th, but that is a long time to wait. And the warlock's eldritch blast provides the ranged firepower. For Johnny Storm, his patron would obviously have to be an efreeti.

For a tankier version of this build, the dao gives resistance to bludgeoning damage at 6th level.

[Greywander]

Superman may be an highly moral and hope-inspiring individual, his powers do not come from his will to do good or protect others, nor are they particularly tailored to do that.

To put it in other words: a Paladin decides they will change the world to their ideal form, and so they have power to help accomplish that, while Superman has power, and so he decides he will help change the world to his ideal form.
You have a point. A brick is, strictly speaking, just someone who is physically tough, physically strong, and has some mobility (not a speedster, though, but leaping from building to building is normal). A totem barbarian would work well here, going bear, bear, eagle, making you extra resilient (resistance to all damage except psychic), strong (more carry weight), and more mobile (limited flight on your turn). That's all a pure brick really needs.

So I suppose what I'm saying is that I had something in mind that was more than just a brick. Someone who is not just a super hero (as there are lots of super heroes with brick-like powers), but a physical embodiment of Justice. The kind of hero who has a red, white, and blue uniform, and talks a lot about LIBERTY, JUSTICE, FREEDOM, and AMERICA. I kind of had All Might from My Hero Academia in mind as sort of a weaker, more realistic version of Superman when I made this thread. In that sense, the idealism that drives their pursuit of Justice is a core part of who they are. It might be true that Superman uses the powers he already has to fight for justice, but in a fantasy world it could just as easily be the other way around; someone committed to the cause of Justice deriving supernatural powers from their conviction.

You can, of course, RP any class as having this kind of conviction, so paladin isn't strictly necessary, but it should be easy to see why this was the first class I went to. The mechanics naturally support the fluff, so it's a lot easier to RP as something that's pretty similar to a paladin if you are playing as a paladin. If I just wanted a character with super strength there are any number of other classes that would give me that. The paladin's bonus to saves is important to me, though, as I feel like a hero that's this committed to justice would be unshakable, not merely physically tough. Plus the paladin's (and especially Redemption's) capacity to actively protect party members instead of just being good at fighting also fits with what I'm looking for.

I guess what I'm saying is that it's true that a flying brick is simpler than what I'm asking for, so I suppose I'm actually asking for a specific type of flying brick.


This is very easy to build in 5E. The genie warlock gets wingless flight as a power at 6th level. The draconic sorcerer gets winged flight at 14th, but that is a long time to wait. And the warlock's eldritch blast provides the ranged firepower. For Johnny Storm, his patron would obviously have to be an efreeti.
It's no surprise that the magical girl class can also pull off a super hero; I mean magical girls are basically Japan's equivalent to Western super heroes. The reason Superman runs into a phone booth is because he's shy and doesn't want us to see his transformation sequence. Warlock as a class is also pretty versatile, so you could make a whole party of magical girls and each have your own individual set of powers.

I do think warlock isn't ideal for the flying brick, though. Hexblade does get you medium armor and a shield, and the d8 hit die is alright. If you're a hexblade, though, there's not really a reason to put points into STR. A non-hexblade bladelock might be viable, but you'll need armor proficiency from somewhere or else you're better off making a DEX build rather than STR, and none of the other patrons really offer much that supports a brick concept (maybe Celestial).

I think an artificer could pull this off pretty well, although it would definitely be a very different fluff approach. But you can make Gauntlets of Ogre Power, and later a Belt of Giant's Strength, so dumping STR isn't a problem. You get a bonus to saves at 20, which is a long time to wait, but it is there at least. Armorer can get you heavy armor that punches stuff. Mechanically, between spells, infusions, and class features, you can probably get just about everything you'd need to pull this concept off, it would just get really weird if you tried to fluff it as anything other than a gadget-based inventor hero, which isn't what I'm going for. It's more Iron Man or Batman, and less Superman.

[Dalinar]

Superman arguably has straight 20s across the board, except maaaaaybe DEX?

Well, I don't know if 20 is literally the right number, but while people tend to focus on his STR/CON, his mental stats are also pretty legendary, especially CHA.

So it's tough to replicate on a DnD point buy character precisely because that stat generation method doesn't let you be good at everything.

[Vogie]

A Paladin/lock/sorcerer would probably be the best combination.

Paladin, for all the reasons you've listed.
6 levels of Genie Warlock for Powered Ranged abilities, free flight, and magical transformation via Armor of Shadows. If you choose Pact of the Blade, you can manifest your weapon at will as well.
Sorcerer for additional spell slots and expanded abilities. Probably Storm, which gives you even more ability to fly beyond the Genie 'lock 6 and Flight spell.

Another option, if you don't want Genie/sorcerer, 3 levels of Armorer Artificer allows you to have a magical transformation, as well as a pseudo-unarmed weapon attack via Thunder Gauntlets, allowing you to smite with a fist. It also gives you access to Longstrider, increasing your speed.

[Unoriginal]

You have a point. A brick is, strictly speaking, just someone who is physically tough, physically strong, and has some mobility (not a speedster, though, but leaping from building to building is normal). A totem barbarian would work well here, going bear, bear, eagle, making you extra resilient (resistance to all damage except psychic), strong (more carry weight), and more mobile (limited flight on your turn). That's all a pure brick really needs.

So I suppose what I'm saying is that I had something in mind that was more than just a brick. Someone who is not just a super hero (as there are lots of super heroes with brick-like powers), but a physical embodiment of Justice. The kind of hero who has a red, white, and blue uniform, and talks a lot about LIBERTY, JUSTICE, FREEDOM, and AMERICA. I kind of had All Might from My Hero Academia in mind as sort of a weaker, more realistic version of Superman when I made this thread. In that sense, the idealism that drives their pursuit of Justice is a core part of who they are. It might be true that Superman uses the powers he already has to fight for justice, but in a fantasy world it could just as easily be the other way around; someone committed to the cause of Justice deriving supernatural powers from their conviction.

You can, of course, RP any class as having this kind of conviction, so paladin isn't strictly necessary, but it should be easy to see why this was the first class I went to. The mechanics naturally support the fluff, so it's a lot easier to RP as something that's pretty similar to a paladin if you are playing as a paladin. If I just wanted a character with super strength there are any number of other classes that would give me that. The paladin's bonus to saves is important to me, though, as I feel like a hero that's this committed to justice would be unshakable, not merely physically tough. Plus the paladin's (and especially Redemption's) capacity to actively protect party members instead of just being good at fighting also fits with what I'm looking for.

I guess what I'm saying is that it's true that a flying brick is simpler than what I'm asking for, so I suppose I'm actually asking for a specific type of flying brick.

More than fair. I still suggest the Protector Aasimar as the idea Heroic Flying Brick option.

[Greywander]

A Paladin/lock/sorcerer would probably be the best combination.
[...]
Another option, if you don't want Genie/sorcerer, 3 levels of Armorer Artificer allows you to have a magical transformation, as well as a pseudo-unarmed weapon attack via Thunder Gauntlets, allowing you to smite with a fist. It also gives you access to Longstrider, increasing your speed.
I was actually thinking about this at work today and had to doublecheck that the Armorer artificer's thunder gauntlets use weapons attacks (they do) which is required for smiting. The build I had in mind was paladin 6/Armorer artificer 3/Genie (dao) warlock 6. However, after further analysis, artificer isn't giving as much as I would have liked, and EB comes out way stronger than just using thunder gauntlets. In fact, to remain competitive with EB, we really need to take get a BA attack (Dual-Wielder, for thunder gauntlets, PAM for a polearm), the appropriate fighting style (TWF or Dueling) and Improved Divine Smite. This is also assuming that we can push both STR and CHA to 20, which is doubtful, and we want good CHA for our save bonus. Magic items could fix this, e.g. a Belt of Storm Giant's Strength (STR 29) and thunder gauntlets +3, but I'd rather not have to depend on the DM's charity, and there may very well be another player who could make better use of such items.

You could skip artificer entirely and just refluff a flail or quarterstaff as a punching glove. Q-staff is probably better, since PAM with Dueling is stronger than TWF. That said, the thunder gauntlets do provide some additional benefits, such as leaving your hands free for grappling and such, and imposing disadvantage on attacks against anyone other than you. That second point is actually really nice since we can force enemies to attack us or suffer a penalty, so even if the damage is lower than EB it could still be worth it. Is there something I'm overlooking that could boost our damage with the thunder gauntlets even more?

I feel like for the effort required to get the thunder gauntlets, they should at least count as light weapons so we can dual wield them without a feat. Perhaps I could barter away some of the less useful traits (INT for attack/damage rolls, the Defensive Field benefit, other artificer features that don't interest us like Magical Tinkering) in exchange for the ability to dual wield the gauntlets, or even just make a BA attack that already adds my STR mod to damage. But again, I don't want to depend on DM charity, and I think it's bad form to post builds that rely on houserules. It's one thing if you're actually going to play that build and the DM has agreed to allow some changes, but theorycraft builds should avoid that whenever possible unless it's purpose-built to be used with a particular homebrew.

[Greywander]

Okay so I thought I'd try to look at each of the major features I wanted across several different classes and then combine it into a homebrew class. To start with, though, I tried just making it a paladin subclass, which seems like it worked out alright. The main things I wanted were the Armorer artificer's thunder gauntlets, some kind of mobility boost, and more ways to protect my allies. This is a first draft, so it's undoubtedly a bit janky, but let me know if this looks like it's on the right track even.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nAsG8VRGyzhkO-S0WxSY8cL18Iz7-ef-Mn97sEyOGxU/edit?usp=sharing

[ZRN]

I feel like warlock and sorcerer are the best "super hero" builds because they have a fixed number of magical powers they can use fairly frequently. They also have the option of going without physical armor (through stuff like mage armor), like most superheroes.

[Greywander]

I've refined the paladin subclass a bit, and added a sorcerer subclass that still probably needs some work. I'll post them over in the homebrew section of the forum later after I've thought through them some more.


I feel like warlock and sorcerer are the best "super hero" builds because they have a fixed number of magical powers they can use fairly frequently. They also have the option of going without physical armor (through stuff like mage armor), like most superheroes.
Warlocks work very well for representing magical girls, one of the major super hero genres out of Japan, while sorcerers do a good job of representing the variety of powers you see in something like X-Men. For the specific heroic archetype I was aiming for in this thread, however, I still think paladin is a great fit, it just needed a few tweaks (hence reworking the individual features I wanted into a homebrew subclass).

I suppose generally speaking, it kind of depends if you're a solo hero or part of a team of heroes. A solo hero will often (but not always) fall into a specific type of flying brick archetype who is dedicated to Justice and Liberty or whatever, so paladin works best as a base. If you're part of a team, then there's going to be a lot more diversity in terms of both powers and personality (though an entire team of nearly identical flying bricks dedicated to Justice would probably be pretty funny), and sorcerer allows access to a much broader set of powers and isn't as stereotyped with regards to personality.