Heavy Armor Master and Armor of Agathys?

[Citadel97501]

Hello all, I was just wondering if there is a build using the spell Armor of Agathys with the Heavy Armor Master feat? I was thinking that basically enhancing AoA through it could be very effective? I am not sure which type of character would benefit the best with this though? Obviously you don't want to have your AC to high or both of these benefits begin to cancel out, as they never come up. You also want to ensure they can't just ignore you either so I am thinking this would be best with some type of either 2 handed or dual wielding character?

[ImproperJustice]

I would check with your DM, but I think Temp HP are depleted before hit point damage is resolved and based on GM
Interpretation they may decide that the ice barrier from Agathys is depleted before damage reduction from
HAM would apply.

[CheddarChampion]

Well the Oath of Conquest Paladin has access to heavy armor and AoA. They also get Scornful Rebuke at level 15, which stacks with AoA. The only downside is that they are only half-casters and thus don't have high level spell slots.

You could also be a Warlock 1/Cleric X with the Forge or War domains. That'll get you AoA, lots of spell slots, heavy armor, and nonmagical B/P/S resistance down the line.

A Barbarian's Rage stacks well with AoA, since AoA has an hour duration and it doesn't require concentration. An Abjurer's Arcane Ward might stack well with AoA, depending on how the DM rules if the ward taking a hit triggers AoA or not.

Strangely enough, dropping prone at the end of your turn will be useful for this kind of build. AoA doesn't retaliate against ranged attacks: making it easier to hit you up close and harder to hit you from far away helps you get the most out of AoA.

[stoutstien]

I would check with your DM, but I think Temp HP are depleted before hit point damage is resolved and based on GM
Interpretation they may decide that the ice barrier from Agathys is depleted before damage reduction from
HAM would apply.
HaM is a flat reduction so it works with THP.

[Dalinar]

If we're upcasting Armor of Agathys anyway, might as well squeeze as many Abjurer levels in as we can. There's a very strong build I've seen elsewhere based on that combo (Battle Smith 3 / Hexblade 1 / Abjurer 16), but we'll do things from scratch here since we're trying to squeeze in Heavy Armor Master.

Sure, you don't technically get the passive damage if they only hit your Arcane Ward, but that just buys you more time to throw spells! That said, if that Arcane Ward goes down but your AOA only takes a couple damage, it's very likely you got an extra passive damage proc out of it at least. And then you cast another abjuration spell, giving another small buffer against the next thing that gets through to you, etc. The tactical goal is to take as many small hits as possible to maximize AOA damage.

To write out our shopping list, we need:
1. Source of heavy armor proficiency (feat tax, or a level in Fighter, Paladin, or certain Cleric domains, or three levels in Armorer Artificer)
2. Source of Armor of Agathys (Mark of Warding Dwarf from Eberron, 1 Warlock level, 3 Conquest Paladin levels, or 2 Clockwork Soul levels*)
3. Heavy Armor Master feat ASAP (read: minimize the number of other feats necessary for effectiveness)
4. Optionally, other sources of passive damage when we get hit (Tempest Cleric 1, Fire Shield spell, etc.)
5. Once we have all that, as many Abjurer levels as possible.

*I actually can't find a ruling either way on whether you can replace a Clockwork Magic spell at level 1, but I'm assuming you can't because I've heard so in that most vital bastion of human knowledge known as the Youtube comment section. <_<

To expand upon our list:

1. Heavily Armored feat is a bad idea because it means we delay HAM. Depending how MAD we wanna be, Armorer Artificer is the least MAD option, but depending on our choice for 2 we're MAD anyway. We'll probably want a decent DEX for saves, so Fighter is probably on the table.

2. 3 Conquest Paladin levels gets us our heavy armor and our AOA in one swoop, but delays our spell slot progression by two levels compared to one level lost from Artificer, while being the much more MAD. Two Clockwork Soul levels don't interrupt our spell slot progression the way one Warlock level does, but on the other hand it's a bigger commitment in terms of high-level spells known. Lastly, if you have access to Eberron races, Mark of Warding Dwarf lets you avert this entire quandary, so definitely grab that if your DM allows.

3. Basically we're probably not getting this until a little later than you'd like, but again, it means we'd rather multiclass to get heavy armor proficiency rather than take the feat for it.

4. Fire Shield spell seems like it'd slip in easily, but beyond that I'm not sure what's worth it. I plead ignorance here!

So basically here are the plays as I see 'em:

1. Mark of Warding Dwarf, Armorer 3 / Abjurer 17. Should be self-explanatory. Fully SAD -- you don't even get penalized from not having the STR score for heavy armor.
1.1 Any other race, Armorer 3 / Warlock-of-choice 1 / Abjurer 16. The non-Eberron option. Almost as SAD, but you do need 13 CHA. Slightly worse spell progression.

2. Mark of Warding Dwarf, Fighter 2 / Abjurer 18. Slightly weaker spell slot progression than the previous option, although your Wizard-specific progression is a level faster outside of that. Not as good at abusing Action Surge as other Fighter builds, but probably still worth grabbing anyway. MAD with STR/INT unless you wanna be slowed down by your heavy armor.
2.1 Splash in a Warlock level if you don't mind being even more MAD, and you can take this build outside Eberron.

3. Any medium armor proficiency race, Clockwork Soul 20. You don't get Arcane Ward, but you at least have HAM at 8 if you really wanna sink two feats into that. This is a poor option for abusing AOA/HAM specifically, IMO, but a great build outside of that. (Do check out Ludic and Bendking's Hobgoblin builds for inspiration on how to build defensive casters, BTW.) MAD with STR/CHA unless, again, you take the movespeed penalty.

4. Any race, Paladin 2 / Clockwork Soul 18. Basically any typical Clockwork Soul Sorcadin can run AOA/HAM. Go to Paladin 6 if you want the save bonuses, or 7 to pick up the spell resistance from Ancients. MAD with STR/CHA, but not much more so than your typical Sorcadin.

5. Warlock 1 / Fighter or Paladin at least 1 / Sorcerer X. The Sorcerer option for DMs who don't use Tasha's. MAD, STR/CHA.
5.1 Conquest Paladin 3 / Sorcerer 17. Another Sorcerer option for non-Tasha's. STR/CHA again.

6. Just for fun, Conquest Paladin 6 / Abjurer 14. You get the spell slots of a level 17 character, 7th-level Wizard spells and 2nd-level Paladin spells. I put it at the bottom because it's the MADdest build of all: STR/INT/CHA are all important, and you still want DEX/CON/WIS for the saves and whatnot. That said, you have both the Paladin saving throw bonus AND the Abjurer spell resistance and saving throw advantage, along with heavy armor, AOA, and Arcane Ward. Try this if your DM runs one of those high-powered games where your stats are buffed and you start at high levels.

Lastly, if you're not getting AOA from Clockwork Soul, you can replace any Sorcerer levels with Bard levels to achieve similar effects, although I'm sure Font of Magic makes an appreciable difference in survivability if you need more abjuration spells.

Did I miss anything?

[diplomancer]

If we're upcasting Armor of Agathys anyway, might as well squeeze as many Abjurer levels in as we can. There's a very strong build I've seen elsewhere based on that combo (Battle Smith 3 / Hexblade 1 / Abjurer 16), but we'll do things from scratch here since we're trying to squeeze in Heavy Armor Master.

Sure, you don't technically get the passive damage if they only hit your Arcane Ward, but that just buys you more time to throw spells! That said, if that Arcane Ward goes down but your AOA only takes a couple damage, it's very likely you got an extra passive damage proc out of it at least. And then you cast another abjuration spell, giving another small buffer against the next thing that gets through to you, etc. The tactical goal is to take as many small hits as possible to maximize AOA damage.

To write out our shopping list, we need:
1. Source of heavy armor proficiency (feat tax, or a level in Fighter, Paladin, or certain Cleric domains, or three levels in Armorer Artificer)
2. Source of Armor of Agathys (Mark of Warding Dwarf from Eberron, 1 Warlock level, 3 Conquest Paladin levels, or 2 Clockwork Soul levels*)
3. Heavy Armor Master feat ASAP (read: minimize the number of other feats necessary for effectiveness)
4. Optionally, other sources of passive damage when we get hit (Tempest Cleric 1, Fire Shield spell, etc.)
5. Once we have all that, as many Abjurer levels as possible.

*I actually can't find a ruling either way on whether you can replace a Clockwork Magic spell at level 1, but I'm assuming you can't because I've heard so in that most vital bastion of human knowledge known as the Youtube comment section. <_<

To expand upon our list:

1. Heavily Armored feat is a bad idea because it means we delay HAM. Depending how MAD we wanna be, Armorer Artificer is the least MAD option, but depending on our choice for 2 we're MAD anyway. We'll probably want a decent DEX for saves, so Fighter is probably on the table.

2. 3 Conquest Paladin levels gets us our heavy armor and our AOA in one swoop, but delays our spell slot progression by two levels compared to one level lost from Artificer, while being the much more MAD. Two Clockwork Soul levels don't interrupt our spell slot progression the way one Warlock level does, but on the other hand it's a bigger commitment in terms of high-level spells known. Lastly, if you have access to Eberron races, Mark of Warding Dwarf lets you avert this entire quandary, so definitely grab that if your DM allows.

3. Basically we're probably not getting this until a little later than you'd like, but again, it means we'd rather multiclass to get heavy armor proficiency rather than take the feat for it.

4. Fire Shield spell seems like it'd slip in easily, but beyond that I'm not sure what's worth it. I plead ignorance here!

So basically here are the plays as I see 'em:

1. Mark of Warding Dwarf, Armorer 3 / Abjurer 17. Should be self-explanatory. Fully SAD -- you don't even get penalized from not having the STR score for heavy armor.
1.1 Any other race, Armorer 3 / Warlock-of-choice 1 / Abjurer 16. The non-Eberron option. Almost as SAD, but you do need 13 CHA. Slightly worse spell progression.

2. Mark of Warding Dwarf, Fighter 2 / Abjurer 18. Slightly weaker spell slot progression than the previous option, although your Wizard-specific progression is a level faster outside of that. Not as good at abusing Action Surge as other Fighter builds, but probably still worth grabbing anyway. MAD with STR/INT unless you wanna be slowed down by your heavy armor.
2.1 Splash in a Warlock level if you don't mind being even more MAD, and you can take this build outside Eberron.

3. Any medium armor proficiency race, Clockwork Soul 20. You don't get Arcane Ward, but you at least have HAM at 8 if you really wanna sink two feats into that. This is a poor option for abusing AOA/HAM specifically, IMO, but a great build outside of that. (Do check out Ludic and Bendking's Hobgoblin builds for inspiration on how to build defensive casters, BTW.) MAD with STR/CHA unless, again, you take the movespeed penalty.

4. Any race, Paladin 2 / Clockwork Soul 18. Basically any typical Clockwork Soul Sorcadin can run AOA/HAM. Go to Paladin 6 if you want the save bonuses, or 7 to pick up the spell resistance from Ancients. MAD with STR/CHA, but not much more so than your typical Sorcadin.

5. Warlock 1 / Fighter or Paladin at least 1 / Sorcerer X. The Sorcerer option for DMs who don't use Tasha's. MAD, STR/CHA.
5.1 Conquest Paladin 3 / Sorcerer 17. Another Sorcerer option for non-Tasha's. STR/CHA again.

6. Just for fun, Conquest Paladin 6 / Abjurer 14. You get the spell slots of a level 17 character, 7th-level Wizard spells and 2nd-level Paladin spells. I put it at the bottom because it's the MADdest build of all: STR/INT/CHA are all important, and you still want DEX/CON/WIS for the saves and whatnot. That said, you have both the Paladin saving throw bonus AND the Abjurer spell resistance and saving throw advantage, along with heavy armor, AOA, and Arcane Ward. Try this if your DM runs one of those high-powered games where your stats are buffed and you start at high levels.

Lastly, if you're not getting AOA from Clockwork Soul, you can replace any Sorcerer levels with Bard levels to achieve similar effects, although I'm sure Font of Magic makes an appreciable difference in survivability if you need more abjuration spells.

Did I miss anything?

You've mentioned it, but didn't provide a build in your rundown; Mark Of Warding Dwarf, Twilight Cleric 1/Abjurer 19. It's the most castery of all options, and you get all the goodies of Twilight Cleric. You could get 2 Cleric levels for that awesome Channel Divinity; though it's not as good for you THP-wise (though 5 renewable THP to the whole party is not so bad)the cancelling conditions clause will always come in handy at later levels.

Sure, costs you 13 Wis; but that's not so bad when you are a dwarf and thus does not need Str that much, only Int and Con.

[Danielqueue1]

I actually played a character with this before Tasha's came out. I rolled really well for stats. Starting at level 5:
Variant human HAM
Fighter 1 for heavy armor
Abjurer wizard 2 for barrier.
Celestial warlock 2 for unlimited mage armor. (I know that use is contested but DM read it as working)

Between HAM, the abjurers ward (free recharge out of combat) Armor of agathys (which contrary to the above post only requires you to be hit with a melee attack and doesn't care how the damage is applied. Lots of shield spells and adamantine armor, bonus action healing from second wind and celestial warlock. The character became nearly unassailable to level appropriate threats. Booming blade made up for some of the lost damage and added some stickiness.

Once literally had the barbarian throw him over a wall to hold the attention of a horde while the party opened the gates to evacuate civilians. Party then joined the fight.

[Throne12]

Why wouldn't AoA be proc by using your arcane ward? The ward says Whenever you take damage, the ward takes the damage instead. If this damage reduces the ward to 0 hit points, you take any remaining damage. When ever you take damage. AoA says if a creature HITS YOU with a melee attack while you have these points. So they have to hit you before they can damage you first. So I see no reason why using the arcane ward to make your AoA temp hp last longer and still benefit from AoA's damages.

[diplomancer]

Why wouldn't AoA be proc by using your arcane ward? The ward says Whenever you take damage, the ward takes the damage instead. If this damage reduces the ward to 0 hit points, you take any remaining damage. When ever you take damage. AoA says if a creature HITS YOU with a melee attack while you have these points. So they have to hit you before they can damage you first. So I see no reason why using the arcane ward to make your AoA temp hp last longer and still benefit from AoA's damages.

What causes the ward to take damage when a creature attacks you? Is it the ward being hit? If yes, what's the ward's AC? No, when you are hit, the ward takes the damage instead of you, but it still was you that was hit.

[x3n0n]

Why wouldn't AoA be proc by using your arcane ward? The ward says Whenever you take damage, the ward takes the damage instead. If this damage reduces the ward to 0 hit points, you take any remaining damage. When ever you take damage. AoA says if a creature HITS YOU with a melee attack while you have these points. So they have to hit you before they can damage you first. So I see no reason why using the arcane ward to make your AoA temp hp last longer and still benefit from AoA's damages.

I can't tell what you mean.

My understanding:

If their melee attack roll succeeds vs your AC, that is a hit and triggers the Armor of Agathys damage.

Even if any of Arcane Ward, HAM, Stone's Endurance, the Interception fighting style, Parry, Uncanny Dodge, Bastion of Law, and/or resistance reduce the damage taken, the hit still happened and the attacker still takes the AoA damage, but you preserve more of the AoA temporary hit points so the attacker is likely to take more AoA damage in the future.

[Throne12]

Why wouldn't AoA be proc by using your arcane ward? The ward says Whenever you take damage, the ward takes the damage instead. If this damage reduces the ward to 0 hit points, you take any remaining damage. When ever you take damage. AoA says if a creature HITS YOU with a melee attack while you have these points. So they have to hit you before they can damage you first. So I see no reason why using the arcane ward to make your AoA temp hp last longer and still benefit from AoA's damages.

I think I missed read something. What I was trying to say. Is arcane ward and AoA works with each other.

[Frogreaver]

Arcane Ward
The ward has hit points equal to twice your wizard level + your Intelligence modifier. Whenever you take damage, the ward takes the damage instead.

Armor of Agathys
A protective magical force surrounds you, manifesting as a spectral frost that covers you and your gear. You gain 5 temporary hit points for the duration. If a creature hits you with a melee attack while you have these hit points, the creature takes 5 cold damage.

A strict RAW reading would say they work together. But it's pretty easy to see where an alternative ruling of needing the damage to apply to your hp/temp hp could come in.