How do you handle “coin weight” and encumbrance?

[blackjack50]

So I decided to start explaining “coin weight” in a simple method. Someone said they liked to add it in so that players were forced to go to banks and such. I love that concept because it forces them to put down roots and carry change. But I put an addendum on this. Coin purses are basically mini bags of holding that only work for money. They have a “maximum capacity” based on weight/volume. And players could conceivably carry many. Does anyone else do this?

[Lunali]

If characters have enough money that they need extradimensional space for it, they have enough to buy a normal bag of holding if you make it available. I would only create a specialized version if I were doing it to justify handwaving encumbrance for carrying a reasonable amount of money.

[Greywander]

I made a custom character sheet as a Google spreadsheet, and yes, it does track coin weight and how many pouches you need to hold all your coins. Since it's automatically calculated, it's fairly painless. The sheet isn't configured to allow you to carry things besides coins in those pouches though, and has a separate section for non-coin pouches. The sheet also has sections for two bags of holding, a portable hole, a mount/draft animal, a ship or cart, and your home base, each with their own coin section where the weight doesn't count against your encumbrance but does count against the weight the bags of holding can carry.

The key to tracking this minutia is automation.

[Willowhelm]

I let my players have as much on them as they want, distributed where they want, without affecting encumbrance.

But that’s also how much is available for npcs to steal and how much is lost when their corpse falls into lava etc

[ProsecutorGodot]

We don't typically track it until we find ourselves in possession of an amount that warrants tracking. If I had to ballpark an estimate, it would be any combination of 1000 coins (20lbs of coins) where we'd start to spread it out a bit.

In our Mad Mage campaign, we just keep a bank account and assume the money makes it in there as long as we make it back home.

[Naanomi]

2E had a magic item (Waukeen's Pouch?) that you convert money put into it into another denomination... convert everything to Platinum coins for ease of carry weight. A Forge Cleric can pull something off similar if you have the time (100gp value platinum bars don't weight much)

[Rev666]

I allow 300 coins in a pouch and if they want to carry more they have to carry it in a backpack

I've actually been able to lead many plot hooks using a bank from the main city they visit.

Their favourite so far has been hunting down historical platinum coins for a friendly lich that has been collecting a coin for every year he's been "alive". They only need to find 3 more coins for his set of 500 to be complete.

[Tanarii]

I had everyone totally up the weight of gear prior to a session, so they knew how much free space they had. Note that if you do that, you need to explain how Explorers and Dungeoneers starting packs carry all that weight! They're well over the backpack limit, you have to count a lot as strapped a lot to the outside and not counting towards capacity. Also I recommend you add those starting backpack weights to your session zero doc so it's simple to tally up starting weight when building a character. AL and home games are just horrible about training players to not think about this stuff. So many first-timers not being able to carry anything without emptying out adventuring gear because they forgot to buy sacks. /facepalm.

I totally did a hand wave on treasure left at home between adventures. It was always safe from theft. It also means characters only had coin, gems, jewelry, and other loot on the, as they progressed through the dungeon. So on-going wasn't an issue.

In previous editions, where I usually had one party we followed through various adventure-arcs instead of a multiple shifting parties in a campaign, the PCs spent a lot of time switching stuff between gems and jewelry and back. This was a very big deal when I got to play so BECMI well after the fact. Because in that game 10 coins weigh a pound!

When we were kids we did what most AD&D players seem to have done back then, and what most people seem to do now: ignored encumbrance. Unfortunately I didn't realize at the time how important a part of the game it was. :smallyuk: Now, with no XP to GP and no training or henchmen or armies or castles to pay for, not so much. You can do that stuff, but most people seem to prefer to be murder-heroes.

(And please note I totally catered to that desire in 5e. :smallamused: and /grognardgrognard)

[traskomancer]

I think it's reasonable to handwave it completely. That's what I usually do as GM; I have too many players who don't like tracking minutiae. That said there is some benefit to tracking it if you don't let yourself get bogged down: realism (carrying hundreds of coins should weigh a PC down) and forcing them to settle to an extent, as you mentioned. Greywander's solution of automating calculation isn't a bad one. I don't think it's really worth tracking coin weight if you abstract it with pseudo-bags of holding; why even bother tracking it at that point? But if you can find a balance of granularity and ease of use, then it seems worth doing, at least for some groups.

[da newt]

I allow players to make change in any town - convert everything to PP or gems if you want. This tend to take care of bulk coins as an issue, and I also allow magic items to be fairly easily found for purchase which also tends to keep the coin hoarding down.

But I also don't have an issue with a magical coin purse or ATM.




The stuff that bugs me is the ridiculous idea of carrying tons of bulk items - an extra set of warhorse splint barding and sadle and tack, a boat, a full sized statue of a YuanTi, stuff like that or a silly load out like an elf in full plate with 2 mauls, a heavy crossbow, 40 bolts, a shield, a long sword, a glaive, a war hammer, 11 javelin, 9 potions, a tent, bedroll, rations for 2 weeks, pots/pans, 10 gallons of water, 100' of rope, and a 10' pole.

[Zhorn]

Coin purses are basically mini bags of holding that only work for money. They have a “maximum capacity” based on weight/volume. And players could conceivably carry many. Does anyone else do this?
If you don't like encumbrance then I'd say skip to the natural end-state and don't use it at all.
It's all just a perspective of scale. Small items, large items, anything in-between, it's all the same system.

I'm of the pro-encumbrance camp, but I understand why it's so common for groups to handwave it all away. Encumbrance only really works when you don't handwave any parts away, hence viewing it as an all-or-nothing choice.
Skip it wholly if you don't like engaging in it. Using encumbrance inconsistently is going to be a lesser player experience than going fully in either direction.

Plus freely handing out bags of holding or making them too easily obtainable is just begging for players to attempt to blow them up to solve ALL of their problems.


The key to tracking this minutia is automation.
This is very much the key to have tracking work for many groups. Online play has made it much easier for groups with poor tracking skills to stay on top of this without effort. Coins, ammo, torches, rations, all so much simpler.

Tracking this stuff on pen'n'paper as a player has never bothered me, and while DMing I've kept my players on top of this fairly consistently, but our own personal experiences are always just that, personal experiences, and the experiences and preferences of others are always bound to be different.

[Composer99]

The stuff that bugs me is the ridiculous idea of carrying tons of bulk items - an extra set of warhorse splint barding and sadle and tack, a boat, a full sized statue of a YuanTi, stuff like that or a silly load out like an elf in full plate with 2 mauls, a heavy crossbow, 40 bolts, a shield, a long sword, a glaive, a war hammer, 11 javelin, 9 potions, a tent, bedroll, rations for 2 weeks, pots/pans, 10 gallons of water, 100' of rope, and a 10' pole.

Takes me back to Baldur's Gate and returning from an expedition to the gnoll fortress with the whole parry loaded down with glaives.

[Osuniev]

Since we use the metric system, I basically ask my players to update the weight carried by their character by 1 kg every 100 coin.

Usually there's enough margin between where they are and the next level of encumbrance that it can be handled between sessions, or at the beginning of the session.

Of course, when we play online, Roll20 handles the calculation for them.

[Tanarii]

The stuff that bugs me is the ridiculous idea of carrying tons of bulk items - an extra set of warhorse splint barding and sadle and tack, a boat, a full sized statue of a YuanTi, stuff like that or a silly load out like an elf in full plate with 2 mauls, a heavy crossbow, 40 bolts, a shield, a long sword, a glaive, a war hammer, 11 javelin, 9 potions, a tent, bedroll, rations for 2 weeks, pots/pans, 10 gallons of water, 100' of rope, and a 10' pole.
Easily doable in the 5e non-variant encumbrance rules!

The one that really gets me is the 20 arrows per quiver for 2 lbs. It's not uncommon to see archers with 5 quivers, and I've seen AL characters with 10-20 more than a handful of times. (That's not even getting into 20 arrows per combat ready quiver being silly, but everything about 5e archery is ludicrous so that's pretty minor.)

[MoiMagnus]

Expeditions in place where they might be large quantity loot are made with 10 to 30 additional NPCs (at low pay, except for those who participate to combats). Otherwise we essentially only loot magical objects and precious gems.

The monetary system is abstracted away as soon as we reach civilisations (is it gold or gems? is it traded for favours? are there any banks? maybe).

[ScoutTrooper]

When I was a player first starting out, This and spell components were never tracked. Played with someone once, who would occasionally indicate that their character rolled their coins. They also indicated hygiene. As a DM now, and using Roll20, I have them track the weight, but before it becomes a problem a Bag of Holding or Haversack usually crops up.

If players don't want to track that part of the game, I don't force them. I've tried thinking about what a system would look like to ensure one didn't grab a backpack and 'overstuff it'. The very last time I was able to play, (Kobold Ranger, 10 Str, so 150 lbs carry) I attempted to build a spreadsheet that indicated where all my inventory was...and yeah...that's just a mess.

[Segev]

This thread got me thinking again about coin dimensions. I have often in the past felt coins as I envisioned them were off-size. This time, I did some math starting with the dimensions of a US dime, and calculating what a pure coin of each of the primary metals in D&D would weigh at those dimensions.




Coins the Size of Dimes



Coin
diameter
(mm)height
(mm)
Volume
(mm3)
Density (oz/mm3)
Weight
(oz)



dime
17.91
1.35
340.1064134
0.000235220
0.080000



pp
17.91
1.35
340.1064134
0.000740754
0.251935



gp
17.91
1.35
340.1064134
0.000670206
0.227941



sp
17.91
1.35
340.1064134
0.000352740
0.119969



cp
17.91
1.35
340.1064134
0.000313939
0.106773



Coins don't all have to be of uniform size, though! Also, dimes tend to be on the smaller end of what we picture. Conveniently, D&D says that coins are 1/50th of a pound, which is 0.32 oz, and since each of the coins above weighs less than 0.32 oz, the coins should be bigger! I decided to do my math such that I kept the diameter:height ratio the same on all coins, and made them of uniform weight (0.32 oz). This has the added benefit of allowing measurement of any two coins on a scale against each other to determine that they are both holding the right amount of metal.

When I did this math, I got this table:




Coins that weigh 1/50th of a pound



Coin
diameter
(mm)height
(mm)
Volume
(mm3)
Density (oz/mm3)
Weight
(oz)



pp
19.39616945
1.462022823
431.9922673
0.000740754
0.32



gp
20.05416271
1.511620305
477.4651376
0.000670206
0.32



sp
24.83833048
1.872235966
907.1837614
0.000352740
0.32



cp
25.82214997
1.946393214
1019.3075970
0.000313939
0.32



A US Quarter is 24.26mm in diameter and 1.75mm thick. A US Penny is 19.05mm in diameter and 1.52mm thick.

The silver piece here is 24.84mm in diameter and 1.87mm thick; that's very very close to a quarter.

The gold piece is about as thick as a penny at 1.51mm, and halfway between a penny and a nickel (21.21mm) in diameter. The platinum piece is almost spot-on for the diameter of a penny, just slightly thinner (but still thicker than a dime).


If you want more uniformity of diameter, you could pick (say) the penny or the quarter to match, and then determine the thickness of the coin from there:




Coins that weigh 1/50th of a pound, diameter of US pennies



Coin
diameter
(mm)height
(mm)
Volume
(mm3)
Density (oz/mm3)
Weight
(oz)



pp
19.05
1.515640255
431.9922673
0.000740754
0.32



gp
19.05
1.675181335
477.4651376
0.000670206
0.32



sp
19.05
3.182844536
907.1837614
0.000352740
0.32



cp
19.05
3.576229816
1019.3075970
0.000313939
0.32



This makes the platinum piece almost exactly penny-sized in thickness, too, and the gold piece a little bit thicker (by .16mm). However, it makes for some very chunky silver and copper pieces, at 3.18 and 3.5 mm thick, respectively. That's twice as thick as the gold piece for the silver piece, and slightly more than that still for the copper piece.

On the other hand, you could make them all the diameter of the US Quarter:




Coins that weigh 1/50th of a pound, diameter of US quarters



Coin
diameter
(mm)height
(mm)
Volume
(mm3)
Density (oz/mm3)
Weight
(oz)



pp
24.26
0.934554211
431.9922673
0.000740754
0.32



gp
24.26
1.032928338
477.4651376
0.000670206
0.32



sp
24.26
1.962563843
907.1837614
0.000352740
0.32



cp
24.26
2.205127913
1019.3075970
0.000313939
0.32



That's still a pretty thick copper piece, but not quite as much. But the platinum and gold pieces are getting wafer thin, especially for being the diameters of quarters.

I think I would go with either all of them being penny-diameter and put up with the super-chunky silver and copper pieces, or I would go with the silver and copper pieces being quarter-sized (still a little chunky, but not too bad) and the gold and platinum pieces being penny-sized.

The former makes them all neatly stackable and gets everyone used to seeing the same diameter all the time. The latter separates the "peasant coins" from the "aristocrat coins" very distinctly and keeps the thickness to slightly more aesthetically-pleasing levels on the copper piece.

[Tanarii]

I've tried thinking about what a system would look like to ensure one didn't grab a backpack and 'overstuff it'. Most systems that are serious about encumbrance being an issue are far more stringent than even BECMI D&D.

For example, in Free League's Forbidden Lands, your total items carried = 2*Str, with Heavy counting as two items. Since Str is typically 3 or 4, with maybe a 5 for warriors, you're usually looking at carrying only 2-3 critical items down into the adventuring site after armor and weapons, and ditching those items as soon as you find loot. Possibly coming back in without armor and weapons once you've cleared the place out to get the heavy stuff.

Torchbearer has similar limitations.

[Dark.Revenant]

It's worth noting that the D&D coins are probably not alloys, given the price and weight of precious metal bullion in the PHB. Real life gold coins tended to be worth a lot more than 10 times the standard silver piece, though.

[Segev]

It's worth noting that the D&D coins are probably not alloys, given the price and weight of precious metal bullion in the PHB. Real life gold coins tended to be worth a lot more than 10 times the standard silver piece, though.

I think we kind-of have to assume that gold (and probably silver and platinum) are more prevalent in D&D worlds than the real world, in order to accommodate the massive piles of gold that make up a satisfying mental image of a "hoard."

[Naanomi]

I think we kind-of have to assume that gold (and probably silver and platinum) are more prevalent in D&D worlds than the real world, in order to accommodate the massive piles of gold that make up a satisfying mental image of a "hoard."
I imagine the infinite amounts of the stuff in the elemental planes mess with scarcity a bit

[MoiMagnus]

I imagine the infinite amounts of the stuff in the elemental planes mess with scarcity a bit

So does the generations and generations of spellcasters transmuting various stuff into gold.

[Segev]

I imagine the infinite amounts of the stuff in the elemental planes mess with scarcity a bit

A bit, though it's worth noting that scarcity is relative, and ... well, as an example: if we discovered that 99.9999% of the matter outside the solar system was gold, that wouldn't change the value of gold on Earth. Not until we could get out there and collect it.

[Naanomi]

A bit, though it's worth noting that scarcity is relative, and ... well, as an example: if we discovered that 99.9999% of the matter outside the solar system was gold, that wouldn't change the value of gold on Earth. Not until we could get out there and collect it.
Spelljamming is accessible enough to address some of it (though not the infinite supply on the planes, which take stronger magic to access... And competition from stronger natives)

[Segev]

Spelljamming is accessible enough to address some of it (though not the infinite supply on the planes, which take stronger magic to access... And competition from stronger natives)

And infinite space to dig through to get to it.

Not that you can't get to it. But if the scarcity of gold on your home plane is, say, 1 part per million, you can also have a scarcity of gold on the Elemental Plane of Earth be 1 part per million, and thus exploring and excavating for it is just as difficult relative to the space you have to cover.

[Naanomi]

And infinite space to dig through to get to it.

Not that you can't get to it. But if the scarcity of gold on your home plane is, say, 1 part per million, you can also have a scarcity of gold on the Elemental Plane of Earth be 1 part per million, and thus exploring and excavating for it is just as difficult relative to the space you have to cover.
Divination magic and the natural sense of elementals help locate though, and it only takes one planet sized hunk of platinum to ruin an economy

[Segev]

Divination magic and the natural sense of elementals help locate though, and it only takes one planet sized hunk of platinum to ruin an economy

Again, if you can get to it, and the elementals are helping rather than claiming the site as their own. That sounds like a dao palace-city, for example!

[Naanomi]

Again, if you can get to it, and the elementals are helping rather than claiming the site as their own. That sounds like a dao palace-city, for example!
I assumed magical enforcement of their aid, anyone who can transport large amounts of material off the plane can likely also bind elementals in some way

[OldTrees1]

Well in 5E there is not much to do with large amounts of money other than spell components. So my characters frequently convert the bulk of their coins into diamonds. That cuts down on the encumbrance issue.

[Greywander]

It's simpler to assume that all coins have the same weight and dimensions, but this is obviously not accurate. The US actually did have a gold dollar coin at one point (when the value of a dollar was much higher), and it's even smaller than the dime (12.7 mm diameter for one version, 14.3 mm diameter for some others, all weighed 1.672 g, compared to the dime's 2.268 g). Logically, it makes sense to base D&D's coin system, which works in increments of 10, on the penny, dime, and gold dollar, so you can probably expect coins of about the same size and weight as those. That said, I don't think any of those coins are pure, with most of them only have 90% silver or gold (pennies were initially 100% copper, and had about a 100 year stint as 95% copper).

I suppose the point of this is either (a) D&D coinage isn't like RL coinage, the materials may have different density or rarity, or (b) the way coins are represented for encumbrance is a simplification for ease of use, and not accurate values for the true weight of those coins, e.g. gold coins could actually be smaller, it just isn't worth it to model them as such.

Something else I'll throw out there is that a comparison that has been helpful to me in determining how much something should cost or how much of a reward should be given is that 1 cp is roughly equal to $1. Thus, 1 gp is roughly $100. Full plate then costs the rough equivalent of $150,000. Paying a skilled hireling 1 gp a day is equivalent to paying someone $100 for one day of work, which sounds about right for an entry level job (though above minimum wage). An unskilled hireling being paid 1 sp a day is like paying someone $10 for an entire day's worth of work, which sounds more like a sweatshop than a legitimate job. Then again, things like minimum wage artificially inflate wages, so if you compared these values to what people in 3rd world countries make, it might be a lot more accurate.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Usually, my group lets coin weight slide. But we've recently started a campaign where they're playing Vikings, and that means it's a loot-simulator. They only get XP for gold brought back from raiding, so we've instituted new rules on encumbrance management. And so far, the players love it because of the throw-back nature of the campaign.

But, yeah. Usually, it's a headache for most campaigns.

[Bobthewizard]

I normally use variant encumbrance (5# per point of STR) to start and then don't keep track of weight. But if they find a large horde of coins, they might have to take a few trips to get it all out.

Then I place jewelers in most towns so they can convert coins to gems at a 10% charge and then later gems back to coins if they need to for another 10%. They can pick what gems they change to. My players liked it.

[Bubzors]

My group counts the coins as weight, but it really only matters during the adventure where they find that full chest of coins, and the journey home. Then they have 6o make decisions, figure out how they are transporting, be targets etc.

Once in a city of a large size I allow them to exchange for gems/pp or whatever of value they want.

[Cicciograna]

I play with other people who probably don't care for these kind of minutiae, but I do. I calculate weight for coins and other equipment, and my character bought a mule: a handy spreadsheet determines how much weight is on my person, and how much is on the mule's pack saddle.

I'll never say anything to my fellow players if they don't want to calculate weights (unless something outrageous happens in game, like "Hey, let's take these eight millions copper coins and go to town"), it's fun and realistic for me to keep track of encumbrance, but I can understand how it could be detrimental to other people's fun.

[Lupine]

The key to tracking this minutia is automation.

This. I only started to make players track coin encounters with covid, as paper character sheets became not a thing. That level of minutia is annoying when paper’s the only option.

However, that’s not to say that I didn’t make players count their encumbrance: I just made them do it during long rests.
In effect, long rests became a table break. During that break, people would use the restroom, or recalculate their carry weight.

And encumberance. Then, at the beginning of the rest, they get exhaustion based on how much they’re carrying.
Lightly encumbered? One level, which the long rest removes.
Heavily encumbered? Two levels, meaning that you end the rest with one level of exhaustion.
Beyond your carry capacity? You end with two levels.

The result is that my hoarder 5 min adventuring day players were a lot more cautious about what they took, and when they rested, knowing that if they took too much stuff, and rested, they’d be exhausted for the boss battle.

Now, I admit this system can have problems, such as when a player already has levels of exhaustion. Also, heavily encumbered (read: within your carry capacity) leaving you with a level of exhaustion is a bot rough. But look st what heavily encumbered does to you. Your speed drops by 20 feet, and all dex, con, and str related d20 rolls have disadvantage. That means the average 30 ft character, dashing would move 20 feet in six seconds, or just over 3 feet a second. That’s basically stumbling, due to what you’re carrying. If you spend a full 24 hours doing that (because you only get the benefits of one long rest every 24 hours), you’re gonna be wasted for a good bit.

But, the only reason this works in because it’s hard to track carry weight on the fly, so it temporarily hand-waves it, but hits you back with it later, if you disregard your limits.

[heavyfuel]

I handle it by making Bags of Holding common items that pretty much every one except peasants has. When BoHs are aplenty, I don't need to stop the game with encumberance calculations, which is something I dislike doing even when it's a computer running the numbers, let alone when the players have to run the numbers and I have to check it.

[ProsecutorGodot]

I handle it by making Bags of Holding common items that pretty much every one except peasants has. When BoHs are aplenty, I don't need to stop the game with encumberance calculations, which is something I dislike doing even when it's a computer running the numbers, let alone when the players have to run the numbers and I have to check it.

I hope you've also accounted for the potential for less than savory types to buy 2 and use them as a weapon.

My first homebrew campaign (very short lived) featured common bags of holding, they were a bit smaller since grabbing several was an expectation and kind of like Smokepowder in FR there was a divinely instituted arbitrary restriction to prevent wars waged with bags.