Did i used Phantamsal Force correct?????

[Kerilstrasz]

First a reminder...
Illusion
Level: 2
Casting time: 1 Action
Range: 60 feet
Components: V, S, M (a bit of fleece)
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute
You craft an illusion that takes root in the mind of a creature that you can see within range.
The target must make an Intelligence saving throw. On a failed save, you create a phantasmal object, creature, or other visible phenomenon of your choice that is no larger than a 10-foot cube and that is perceivable only
to the target for the duration. This spell has no effect on undead or constructs. The phantasm includes sound, temperature, and other stimuli, also evident only to the creature.
The target can use its action to examine the phantasm with an Intelligence (Investigation) check against your spell save DC. If the check succeeds, the target realizes that the phantasm is an illusion, and the spell ends.
While a target is affected by the spell, the target treats the phantasm as if it were real. The target rationalizes any illogical outcomes from interacting with the phantasm. For example, a target attempting to walk across a
phantasmal bridge that spans a chasm falls once it steps onto the bridge. If the target survives the fall, it still believes that the bridge exists and comes up with some other explanation for its fall; it was pushed, it slipped,
or a strong wind might have knocked it off. An affected target is so convinced of the phantasm’s reality that it can even take damage from the illusion. A phantasm created to appear as a creature can attack the target.
Similarly, a phantasm created to appear as fire, a pool of acid, or lava can burn the target. Each round on your turn, the phantasm can deal 1d6 psychic damage to the target if it is in the phantasm’s area or within 5 feet of the phantasm,
provided that the illusion is of a creature or hazard that could logically deal damage, such as by attacking. The target perceives the damage as a type appropriate to the illusion.

The illusion was the following...
As the target perceives it, it is engulfed by a huge, thick swarm of insects, that are each blindingly brilliant & obstructs by its movement, thickness & light, sight further than the swarm itself.
The swarm moves out of the way of attacks directed at it and immediately fills any gaps to keep the creature engulfed at all times;
Thus, seeming to dodge & avoid all attacks, the swarm keeps following the target around as it moves.
Attempts to break through by any means or even touch the swarm results in prickling, slashing, burning and any other kind of pain stimuli,
thus justifying attacks coming from outside.
The swarm produces an overwhelming stench, not enough to do damage or have any other effect other than effectively cover every other smell in the immediate surroundings.
The swarm's high pitched buzzing masks any sound of loud volume & bellow (70db? That's about city traffic levels)

Is that within the spell's limits???

[NecessaryWeevil]

I think having them continuously engulfed might be beyond the spell's power, but it would be reasonable to have it follow them on your turn.

[Galithar]

I would say everything is within the constraints of the spell except the partial deafening effect. They would make sound, but I don't think the spell allows for mimicking deafness in any form.

Although I am personally fine with using this to fully obstruct vision which is effectively blindness, so what do I know! Lol

[JackPhoenix]

"if [the target] is in the phantasm’s area or within 5 feet of the phantasm" suggests the the illusion doesn't move from its original area, though there's nothing conclusive one way or the other. Up to the GM if he allows it to move with the target.

[WaroftheCrans]

I think the "blindingly bright" part is overkill/not within the intent of the spell. Just have it thoroughly obstruct vision because it's incredibly thick.

I've always believed the spell to be incapable of movement (and there is nothing to support moving) as it's an area cast. I think you might be able to make the target believe that the edges are impassable so that he doesn't attempt to leave, but actually following the target is beyond the scope of the (already very powerful) spell.

Edit: your writing of your description honestly feels excessively verbose. I don't think replacing some of that with something simple like: "the stench of the swarm smells more powerful that any nearby smell and the constant buzz rings in the victims ears, drowning out most other noise" would actually take anything away from the effect.
Adding in specific flavor might help sell it to your DM: it's cockroaches crawling and flying all around , getting on your skin, biting and flocking in impassable walls. You smell the decay of whatever they're feasting on, hear their wings buzzing, the crunch of their carapaces underfoot, their jaws locking together in an endless cacophony.
Good narration goes a long way.

[Porcupinata]

First a reminder...
Illusion
Level: 2
Casting time: 1 Action
Range: 60 feet
Components: V, S, M (a bit of fleece)
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute
You craft an illusion that takes root in the mind of a creature that you can see within range.
The target must make an Intelligence saving throw. On a failed save, you create a phantasmal object, creature, or other visible phenomenon of your choice that is no larger than a 10-foot cube and that is perceivable only
to the target for the duration. This spell has no effect on undead or constructs. The phantasm includes sound, temperature, and other stimuli, also evident only to the creature.
The target can use its action to examine the phantasm with an Intelligence (Investigation) check against your spell save DC. If the check succeeds, the target realizes that the phantasm is an illusion, and the spell ends.
While a target is affected by the spell, the target treats the phantasm as if it were real. The target rationalizes any illogical outcomes from interacting with the phantasm. For example, a target attempting to walk across a
phantasmal bridge that spans a chasm falls once it steps onto the bridge. If the target survives the fall, it still believes that the bridge exists and comes up with some other explanation for its fall; it was pushed, it slipped,
or a strong wind might have knocked it off. An affected target is so convinced of the phantasm’s reality that it can even take damage from the illusion. A phantasm created to appear as a creature can attack the target.
Similarly, a phantasm created to appear as fire, a pool of acid, or lava can burn the target. Each round on your turn, the phantasm can deal 1d6 psychic damage to the target if it is in the phantasm’s area or within 5 feet of the phantasm,
provided that the illusion is of a creature or hazard that could logically deal damage, such as by attacking. The target perceives the damage as a type appropriate to the illusion.

The illusion was the following...
As the target perceives it, it is engulfed by a huge, thick swarm of insects, that are each blindingly brilliant & obstructs by its movement, thickness & light, sight further than the swarm itself.
The swarm moves out of the way of attacks directed at it and immediately fills any gaps to keep the creature engulfed at all times;
Thus, seeming to dodge & avoid all attacks, the swarm keeps following the target around as it moves.
Attempts to break through by any means or even touch the swarm results in prickling, slashing, burning and any other kind of pain stimuli,
thus justifying attacks coming from outside.
The swarm produces an overwhelming stench, not enough to do damage or have any other effect other than effectively cover every other smell in the immediate surroundings.
The swarm's high pitched buzzing masks any sound of loud volume & bellow (70db? That's about city traffic levels)

Is that within the spell's limits???

I would say that was way beyond the spell's limits, since you're effectively blinding and deafening (and blocking the sense of smell, but there's no word for that in English) the target, all of which are extra effects over and above what the spell is designed to do.

The spell can provide a distraction for the target to interact with, and it can damage the target, but those other effects are beyond its scope.

So I would say that having the stinging swarm is fine, but the target can still see through them and hear and smell other things - if necessary invoking the "The target rationalizes any illogical outcomes from interacting with the phantasm." clause for why the target can still see, hear, and smell despite the swarm. The target may think they're only seeing brief glimpses through gaps in the swarm and only hearing snippets of conversation and so forth, but they can actually see and hear (and smell) well enough to not have any penalties due to these senses being "blocked".

This doesn't make the spell useless, since they'll still take the 1d6 damage each time they move and they'll still probably lose an action or two trying to attack or otherwise dispose of the insects before realising they're fake. But allowing the spell to also blind and deafen the target and more is definitely beyond the spell's limits.

[sophontteks]

You can make a phantasmal swarm of insects, but most of the details wouldn't fly. They are the ones rationalizing the swarm. You actually don't get to choose how they rationalize it.

[MoiMagnus]

As the target perceives it, it is engulfed by a huge, thick swarm of insects, that are each blindingly brilliant & obstructs by its movement, thickness & light, sight further than the swarm itself.

"Blindingly brilliant" => Probably within the rules, see https://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/09/14/blinding-phantasmal-force/ for a tweet of Crawford saying that it is fine for him.
Also, definitely not a "natural" phenomenon so while the target will accept it as true, making an Investigation action will probably be one of his first actions.


The swarm moves out of the way of attacks directed at it and immediately fills any gaps to keep the creature engulfed at all times;
Thus, seeming to dodge & avoid all attacks, the swarm keeps following the target around as it moves.

With such a behaviour for the PF I'd rule that trying to do anything to understand "what the heck is this swarm around me and how do I get out of it" count as taking an Investigation action to disbelieve.


Attempts to break through by any means or even touch the swarm results in prickling, slashing, burning and any other kind of pain stimuli, thus justifying attacks coming from outside.

Definitely NO. The target doesn't forget that there is enemies around, and has no reason to believe that he is not attacked by enemies other than the swarm around him. You don't get to chose how they rationalise the situation. (In particular, the most likely realisation of "why is there a swarm around me that was not there few seconds earlier" is "the enemy caster created a swarm around me".)


The swarm produces an overwhelming stench, not enough to do damage or have any other effect other than effectively cover every other smell in the immediate surroundings.
The swarm's high pitched buzzing masks any sound of loud volume & bellow (70db? That's about city traffic levels)

Same as for blindness, probably ok.

[Verble]

Is it just me or is this spell rather unclear as to what specific conditions it can apply?

I know illusion spells often fall into a category that depends alot on DM and player interpretation.

I've only used it a couple times and that was years ago in an AL game. The party was up against a wizard and his troll minion. I targeted the troll who would likely have a weak INT save, and the illusion was that burning red hot manacles were chaining him to the ground. The DM didn't quite know how to rule it and so gave him the restrained condition and had him take the psychic damage. That seems like a fair middle ground to me between something more powerful like the paralyzed condition from Hold Person/Monster but I'm not completely convinced it was a solid ruling what with the idea that spells only do exactly what they say. In my example I imagine the troll would make an investigation check(good luck) to realize his limbs aren't as restrained as the spell made him think.

What do you think about my example?

I love the flexibility of this spell but often avoid it because it seems too much dependent on DM fiat, and it sucks when you come up with a fun idea that your DM shoots down.

[sophontteks]

Is it just me or is this spell rather unclear as to what specific conditions it can apply?

I know illusion spells often fall into a category that depends alot on DM and player interpretation.

I've only used it a couple times and that was years ago in an AL game. The party was up against a wizard and his troll minion. I targeted the troll who would likely have a weak INT save, and the illusion was that burning red hot manacles were chaining him to the ground. The DM didn't quite know how to rule it and so gave him the restrained condition and had him take the psychic damage. That seems like a fair middle ground to me between something more powerful like the paralyzed condition from Hold Person/Monster but I'm not completely convinced it was a solid ruling what with the idea that spells only do exactly what they say. In my example I imagine the troll would make an investigation check(good luck) to realize his limbs aren't as restrained as the spell made him think.

What do you think about my example?

I love the flexibility of this spell but often avoid it because it seems too much dependent on DM fiat, and it sucks when you come up with a fun idea that your DM shoots down.
Its intentionally vague. With these spells often the players shoot themselves in the foot b going overboard with specifics and explanations rather then simply letting the spell work.

Like with the OP, having insects swarming the target will work just great. Everything else is just screaming for the DM to intervene. The target will be spending their actions attacking the swarm while taking damage. You want to get fancy, say the insects are swarming inside their mouth and eyes. Blind effect, loss of actions, and damage. Pretty reasonable and this doesn't step on Blindness/deafness either (blind/deaf is a non-concentration spell).

Applying an effect like restrained or blindness works pretty well and is perfectly within the normal bounds of the spell. I just guarantee 1000% if you keep the explanation as simple and straightforward as possible, the DM will not have a problem with it.

Of course the real power of the spell comes out when you are using it outside combat with subtle. But I'd be here all day talking about that.

[MoiMagnus]

What do you think about my example?

The thing is that if you were to put the troll under restrain, he would not calmly remain within its bound and would definitely try to break them, or to move around. And from there, you have no control on what will happen and how the Troll will rationalise it, which is kind of a burden for the GM (If the Troll is convinced he can break out of any metal chain, will he succeed? Or can you include "indestructible" in the destruction of the chain?).

In the end, Hold person give three big bonuses:
(1) Prevent the target from attacking of making any other offensive move
(2) Prevent the target from running away or any similar defensive move
(3) Give an advantage (EDIT: and crit) to everyone attacking the target

PF target a save much lower than HP, doesn't grant automatic save, and has much more varied uses, so I'd say that balance-wise, PF should only manage to give at most 2 of those 3 bonuses.

[sophontteks]

The thing is that if you were to put the troll under restrain, he would not calmly remain within its bound and would definitely try to break them, or to move around. And from there, you have no control on what will happen and how the Troll will rationalise it, which is kind of a burden for the GM (If the Troll is convinced he can break out of any metal chain, will he succeed? Or can you include "indestructible" in the destruction of the chain?).

In the end, Hold person give three big bonuses:
(1) Prevent the target from attacking of making any other offensive move
(2) Prevent the target from running away or any similar defensive move
(3) Give an advantage to everyone attacking the target

PF target a save much lower than HP, doesn't grant automatic save, and has much more varied uses, so I'd say that balance-wise, PF should only manage to give at most 2 of those 3 bonuses.
Every hit on a paralyzed target is a crit. This is the biggest part of hold person. It is far better then the restrained condition.

EDIT: should add that you are absolutely right about the chain. They will rationalize why they moved and are still chained, but they are not actually restrained. One would be better off making a restraint they would not try to test.

[Verble]

They will rationalize why they moved and are still chained, but they are not actually restrained. One would be better off making a restraint they would not try to test.

I mean the spell offers rules for how the affected target would address the phantasm. "The target can use its action to examine the phantasm with an Intelligence (Investigation) check against your spell save DC. If the check succeeds, the target realizes that the phantasm is an illusion, and the spell ends.
While a target is affected by the spell, the target treats the phantasm as if it were real. The target rationalizes any illogical outcomes from interacting with the phantasm."

I guess we're getting into a discussion about how the target would respond to the Phantasm. Would they attack it, or investigate it? Does this depend how smart/familiar with magic they are? In my example would the troll make an Investigation(Strength) roll to see if the manacles were real/could be broken?

If they targets believes they are restrained, would that be enough to give them the restrained condition? I imagine that interacting with the chain at all would be some kind of check and the spell specifically mentions an Investigation check. That check represents them breaking through the phantasm and realizing it is illusory which ends the spell.

[sophontteks]

I mean the spell offers rules for how the affected target would address the phantasm. "The target can use its action to examine the phantasm with an Intelligence (Investigation) check against your spell save DC. If the check succeeds, the target realizes that the phantasm is an illusion, and the spell ends.
While a target is affected by the spell, the target treats the phantasm as if it were real. The target rationalizes any illogical outcomes from interacting with the phantasm."

I guess we're getting into a discussion about how the target would respond to the Phantasm. Would they attack it, or investigate it? Does this depend how smart/familiar with magic they are? In my example would the troll make an Investigation(Strength) roll to see if the manacles were real/could be broken?

If they targets believes they are restrained, would that be enough to give them the restrained condition? I imagine that interacting with the chain at all would be some kind of check and the spell specifically mentions an Investigation check. That check represents them breaking through the phantasm and realizing it is illusory which ends the spell.

It's hard to tell why they wpuld investigate. I imagine it'd be done if their friends are convincing them to, since the spell is pretty explicit about them rationalizing it as real.

For the chain attached to them. They may be convinced it is a chain attached to them. But if their reaction is to run anyway, hoping the chain would break like a dog on a leash when a squirrel goes by, then they'll have to rationalize why the chain gave zero resistance.

They may be convinced it is real, but it is not real. Definitely keep their reaction to the phantasm in mind.

One idea I had was to make a phantasmal creature pinning them down. They could try to break free, and they'd succeed since they aren't really pinned. But the creature would just keep pinning them down as long as they believe it exists.

I think your right, the restrained condition is much trickier then other conditions.

[Tanarii]

I've seen a lot of folks suggest that taking any action to interact with the illusion counts as investigating it. Same for Minor/Silent/Major illusions.

I don't agree with that, but it's an interesting take on how illusions work.

[MoiMagnus]

I've seen a lot of folks suggest that taking any action to interact with the illusion counts as investigating it. Same for Minor/Silent/Major illusions.

I don't agree with that, but it's an interesting take on how illusions work.

I personally make the difference between "taking an action that specifically tries to solve the problem caused by the illusion, without knowing that it might be an illusion" and "taking an action which has for byproduct of interacting with the illusion".

If you are under illusionary chains, and take the action "I try to break out of the chain, so I try to brute force them, twist them on their weak points, etc" I'd give an investigation check against the illusion, while "I try to punch the enemy in front of me" would not, despite the fact that you will as a byproduct interact with the illusionary chain (and get a disadvantage because you are convinced that you have chains).

[JackPhoenix]

Is it just me or is this spell rather unclear as to what specific conditions it can apply?

That's because it doesn't apply any conditions.

[WaroftheCrans]

I've seen a lot of folks suggest that taking any action to interact with the illusion counts as investigating it. Same for Minor/Silent/Major illusions.

I don't agree with that, but it's an interesting take on how illusions work.

That's a buff for the others, since you disbelieve it upon physical interaction anyway. For shamrock force, even physical interaction doesn't disbelieve. You can see a bridge, step on it and fall straight through and still believe that a sturdy bridge is there. This is a pretty big nerf to it.

Edit: yes autocorrect, phantasmal and shamrock are the same word. Definitely.

[Tanarii]

That's a buff for the others, since you disbelieve it upon physical interaction anyway.
Physical interaction reveals them to be an illusion. That's not necessarily the same as going faint. The way they are written, they can be interpreted as requiring a check for that. Although obviously that's not the common interpretation.

Regardless, I agree it nerfs shamrock force pretty hard. (That's a great autocorrect :smallamused:) The common interpretation for PF is even physical interaction doesn't reveal it to be an illusion (and obviously it also doesn't disappear).

OTOH it does cost them their action. It might be considered a fair trade off for letting the spell rob a creature of an action.

[Keravath]

Interpreting the spell is up to the DM. However, there are a couple of key phrases in phantasmal force.

"You craft an illusion that takes root in the mind of a creature that you can see within range."

The illusion takes root in the mind of the creature. There is no visual/audible/olfactory element to the illusion to anyone else. Most normal illusions create an image/sound that creatures interact with. Phantasmal force does not.

"The phantasm includes sound, temperature, and other stimuli, also evident only to the creature."

The illusion appears realistic and affects all senses.

"While a target is affected by the spell, the target treats the phantasm as if it were real. The target rationalizes any illogical outcomes from interacting with the phantasm."

The target can interact with the illusion and rationalizes any parts of that interaction that don't seem to make sense or be consistent.

"An affected target is so convinced of the phantasm’s reality that it can even take damage from the illusion."

The target thinks the illusion is real.

Finally ...

"The target can use its action to examine the phantasm with an Intelligence (Investigation) check against your spell save DC. If the check succeeds, the target realizes that the phantasm is an illusion, and the spell ends."

The problem with this is that a creature under the effect of the spell thinks the illusion is real so I am not sure how the creature is supposed to decide that it might be an illusion and thus decide to make the investigation check.

As for the question of movement, it is a DM call. However, since the target is a creature and not an area of effect (only the size of the illusion is specified (so you could not have a phantasmal Ancient dragon for example) but it isn't an area of effect for the spell itself which targets a creature, it can be read as a limit on the size of the illusion and since the illusion is in the mind of the target then I'd think it could move with the target but that would be a DM call.

[SharkForce]

the whole spell is a confusing mess, with no clear answers to most of it, and you're likely going to get conflicting or confusing answers even from the devs on the matter... assuming you even get a response from them that is not a non-answer such as telling you that it does what the book says it does.

essentially, the spell does whatever you can convince the DM that it does. no more, and no less. can it move from the location it is cast on? maybe. ask your DM. when they try to smash through a wall created by it or break a chain created by it, what happens? ask your DM. maybe their mind forces them to stop, maybe they go right through and think they smashed it and now there's a destroyed wall/chain, maybe they still see the wall/chain as undamaged and in the original location (and the target thinks they were magically repaired or something), who knows... ask your DM.

can you see through a phantasmal force bag on your head? devs have said you can't apply any status conditions (though I wouldn't be surprised if they've also said you can), so you can't be blinded, but on the other hand, you have a bag on their head which as far as you can tell is a real bag, so how *wouldn't* that cause them you be blinded, practically speaking?

many spells are fairly clear in what they do. this is not one of them. talk with your DM before learning it. find out what *they* think it can do. ask about specific scenarios you find yourself imagining. ultimately, even more so than any other illusion spell, the limits on what phantasmal force can do is based on what your DM thinks it can do, and that is likely to be heavily influenced by what they think is reasonable, fair, and balanced for it to do. if you ask 5 different people, they can give you 10 different answers and all be equally correct, because there are huge questions that the spell description does not even begin to answer.

[sophontteks]

One man's confusing mess is anothers outlet for creativity.

This is my favorite spell and I just gotta emphasize this. You really don't want to overthink it. Don't elaborate all this fancy and contrived stuff. No DM wants a 2 paragraph description for how a phantasm interacts with the target. The most powerful applications of this spell are often far more simple, and these are the applications that people tend to miss.

For basic applications in combat. It's really easy to blind an opponent and make them waste their actions uselessly swatting away at your phantasm all while taking damage. You could come up with more contrived uses, but it they don't work it's not the spells fault.

It is an illusion that effects all senses, one which they will try to justify even when it doesn't completely make sense. It doesn't need much to be a powerful and versatile level 2 spell. When combined with subtle, it's the magic version of a swiss army knife.

Another consideration, how well do you know your target? This spell is amazing for tapping into any known weakness or soft spots.

[Tanarii]

For basic applications in combat. It's really easy to blind an opponent and make them waste their actions uselessly swatting away at your phantasm all while taking damage. You could come up with more contrived uses, but it they don't work it's not the spells fault.
How exactly, if the DM rules that it can't inflict conditions, that's in a 10ft square so moving out will be rationalized and inflict 1d6 damage, and taking an action swatting at it counts as investigation checks?

Okay that last one might be useful if they keep failing ...

[sophontteks]

How exactly, if the DM rules that it can't inflict conditions, that's in a 10ft square so moving out will be rationalized and inflict 1d6 damage, and taking an action swatting at it counts as investigation checks?

Okay that last one might be useful if they keep failing ...
Yep, even with all of that, it's still a decent application of a level 2 spell. We are getting the power of hideous laughter with a damage rider vs. INT.

But what you described is on the extreme end of a conservative ruling, and goes well into houserule territory if the DM is insisting that illusions can't block vision. If something is blocking your vision, you are blind. This is all pretty much covered in "vision and light."

So I would say that the strictest ruling the spell would still easily apply blindness, sap their actions, and work vs. int. I think that puts the spell in a good place.

I still think the real power of the spell lies in applications outside combat, or in situations where you know the enemy better. For a basic example just think of the elephant vs. mouse trope. Knowing how the elephant irrationally fears a mouse, creating a phantasmal mouse would work to great effect. Subtle really amplifies this interaction too.

They have offered some guidelines on sage where the intention of the spell definitely can include effects, for what its worth to people.

Blind- https://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/09/14/phantasmal-force-on-a-bag/
Restrained- https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/05/30/can-a-creature-under-the-effects-of-phantasmal-force-be-restrained-by-it/comment-page-1/

[Tanarii]

Blind- https://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/09/14/phantasmal-force-on-a-bag/
Restrained- https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/05/30/can-a-creature-under-the-effects-of-phantasmal-force-be-restrained-by-it/comment-page-1/That website really needs to rename itself "www.tweetsfromdnddevs.eu" :smalltongue:

(Don't get me wrong, I appreciate SAC and Crawford's insights in general. Just commenting on the misleading name.)

[SharkForce]

Blind- https://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/09/14/phantasmal-force-on-a-bag/
Restrained- https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/05/30/can-a-creature-under-the-effects-of-phantasmal-force-be-restrained-by-it/comment-page-1/

the first one does not say anything about blinding the target, merely that you could make a bag. the second one literally says the spell only does what it says, unless the DM adds stuff. nothing about what the spell says indicates it can restrain people. taken together, in context, it basically amounts to "if the DM says an effect blinds or restrains the target, it does".

again, what this spell does is completely unclear, and the devs are not giving any useful clarifications. the spell does what your DM thinks it does. nothing more. nothing less. if you want to know what it does, talk to your DM, because the spell description certainly isn't going to give any clear answers.

[sophontteks]

the first one does not say anything about blinding the target, merely that you could make a bag. the second one literally says the spell only does what it says, unless the DM adds stuff. nothing about what the spell says indicates it can restrain people. taken together, in context, it basically amounts to "if the DM says an effect blinds or restrains the target, it does".

again, what this spell does is completely unclear, and the devs are not giving any useful clarifications. the spell does what your DM thinks it does. nothing more. nothing less. if you want to know what it does, talk to your DM, because the spell description certainly isn't going to give any clear answers.
I can't help you if you can't imagine the consequences of having an opaque bag over your head is. :smallamused:
Some things really don't need to be spelled out.

This spell isn't unique. There are several illusion spells. Given that they don't have riders you are basically saying that they are completely useless because they aren't spelling out what you can do. This stuff is what seperates pen and paper from a video game. We don't need mechanics for everything. If I make a bag over your head, you are blind. It's simple stuff.

[JackPhoenix]

I can't help you if you can't imagine the consequences of having an opaque bag over your head is. :smallamused:
Some things really don't need to be spelled out.

This spell isn't unique. There are several illusion spells. Given that they don't have riders you are basically saying that they are completely useless because they aren't spelling out what you can do. This stuff is what seperates pen and paper from a video game. We don't need mechanics for everything. If I make a bag over your head, you are blind. It's simple stuff.

And when you can still see... because you've used Phantasmal Force instead of a spell that can inflict Blinded condition.... you rationalize the illogical outcome in some way, propably by thinking the imaginary bag has eyeholes or it's made out of thin enough fabric that it's see through. As you've said, simple stuff.