Melee focused Death Cleric/Spore Druid Tortle

[Helliquin]

So new campaign, new character. Starting lvl 10.

Been throwing around the idea of tortle death cleric who has found enlightenment and is slowing moving to the circle of death and life, not just death. Was thinking 8 death cleric/2 spore Druid. Using tashas custom linage to bump wis and con.

I have this imagery of this tortle in his priest gear, slightly dirty, bright brass color staff slightly turning green, gradually getting more disheveled as he puts levels in to spore Druid, becoming this deranged Foaming at the mouth half cleric half Druid with a shady past.

Wading in to combat using shillelagh on his priest staff, holding the donations platter as a shield roaring something like “Come join me children in the cycle of life” and smiting people. Raising undead when possible.

How can I improve on this mechanically? The theme is solid but I feel the damage output from Monsignor Mortimus lacks a bit. I’m not above multiclassing again to get extra attack.

Feats and spell choices also open to suggestion.

[LumenPlacidum]

So new campaign, new character. Starting lvl 10.

Been throwing around the idea of tortle death cleric who has found enlightenment and is slowing moving to the circle of death and life, not just death. Was thinking 8 death cleric/2 spore Druid. Using tashas custom linage to bump wis and con.

I have this imagery of this tortle in his priest gear, slightly dirty, bright brass color staff slightly turning green, gradually getting more disheveled as he puts levels in to spore Druid, becoming this deranged Foaming at the mouth half cleric half Druid with a shady past.

Wading in to combat using shillelagh on his priest staff, holding the donations platter as a shield roaring something like “Come join me children in the cycle of life” and smiting people. Raising undead when possible.

How can I improve on this mechanically? The theme is solid but I feel the damage output from Monsignor Mortimus lacks a bit. I’m not above multiclassing again to get extra attack.

Feats and spell choices also open to suggestion.

I take it that if you're going Spore Druid, then you're thinking of wading into combat and gaining your damage output up close and personal, then?

Edit: If your race is preventing you from needing armor (Str/Dex), and you're going with Wis-based casters and taking a Wis-based attack option, then where are you going to be sinking your ability score points? You're paying a price to be able to use Shillelagh, which is the opportunity cost. You could be using a more effective weapon and bumping two stats. Or, more likely, you're going to eventually shift away from the use of the Attack action at all! Unfortunately, that makes the choice of Spores druid a little less appealing... hmm...

[elyktsorb]

2 spore Druid.

How can I improve on this mechanically? The theme is solid but I feel the damage output from Monsignor Mortimus lacks a bit. I’m not above multiclassing again to get extra attack.



I love spore druid, and have been fascinated with it for a long while now.

But at 10th level with only 2 levels of spore druid, all you have is 8 temp hp. As soon as that goes away you lose the additional damage Spore Druid gets on attack.

Literally anything that hits you at that level is pretty much going to remove your temp hp. And unless you can manage to put it on right before combat starts, you basically have to waste your first turn of every combat activating it since it's only as an action.

If you do intend on putting more levels into Druid, I could see it eventually getting high enough for you to take a hit or two without losing the temp hp right away.


In terms of bumping your attack, taking a single level in monk would net you a bonus action attack every round, which with Symbiotic Entity active would give you 1d4+dex + 1d6 necrotic per hit. Of course in order to do that your dex needs to be 13 at least and I don't know if your even bumping dex considering your going with Tortle.



But finally. Unless your intending this to go to Death Cleric 14/Spore Druid 6 I don't recommend adding Spore Druid at all. (And I don't recommend Spore Druid 6 because at level 20, 24 hp isn't going to last more than a couple turns with you in melee and having to waste an action re-applying the temp hp is just going to be cutting into your total dps)

Because at level 14 your Death Cleric's Devine strike goes from 1d8 to 2d8, which would probably end up being far more consistent than Death Cleric 8/Spore Druid X

Sure as it stands the Spore Druid can add a d6 of nectrotic to every melee attack they use, but so far your build only gets one attack per turn since with shillelagh you can't do two weapon fighting, and even taking 1 level of monk isn't all that worth it.

A 14th level Death Cleric could do, Rapier 1d8+Dex(4 assuming your prioritized wisdom for spell saves) + 2d8 Divine Strike consistently per turn. So 3d8+4

(If we add their spiritual weapon into the mix, because why wouldn't you be doing it if you could, that's another 1d8+wis (5) ) So 4d8+9 after the first turn.

Or a 8th level Death Cleric/5th Level Spore Druid/1st Level Monk could do. 1d8+wis(5) + 1d8 necrotic (Devine smite) + 1d6 Necrotic (From spore druid's rider) + 1d4 +dex(2 assuming a starting dex of 14) + the spore druids 1d6 poison rider again.

So 2d8+5 + 2d6 + 1d4+2

Assuming you don't have Symbiotic Entity up when you start a fight you have to waste a full round turning it on + activating Shillelagh. And once you lose that temp hp you lose 2d6 + 1d4+2 damage per attack and have to spend your action turning symbiotic entity back on and since you didn't attack you don't get a bonus action attack from martial arts either. (So only losing the 1d4+2 for the turn you reactivate symbiotic entity once, since you can only use it two times, after the second time you lose it you lose the 2d6 necrotic altogether)

So on paper even assuming you manage to get both symbitic entity and shillelagh up right before combat starts to not have to waste a turn setting it up.

You only out damage a normal Death Cleric for that first turn (at the same level), after which they will have summoned a spiritual weapon and will be doing consistantly more damage per turn on average since the only thing stopping their current damage output is if an enemy casts dispel magic on their spiritual weapon. This calc is also ignoring the fact that the pure death cleric could upcast the spiritual weapon to be doing 2d8+5 without wasting much in the resource department.


So to make a long story short, there is no improving this mechanically, you're always going to deal less damage than a pure Death Cleric.

[LumenPlacidum]

Yeah. That. That was a good description of this combination of classes mechanically. However, in the interest of answering the original question...

Polearm Master can get you a second attack with your Shillelagh. It is at the expense of the Spiritual Weapon (both use bonus action), but that means you don't need to take up a spell slot getting your spiritual weapon. The downside is that the polearm master attack is only 1d4 where the spiritual weapon attack was at least 1d8. However, it's not just a melee attack--it's a melee weapon attack and can get things layered atop it that only apply to weapon attacks (like Divine Strike). Divine Strike might only be once per turn, but the miss chance on your attack makes it benefit significantly from having multiple tries to apply the extra damage.

You also have the Concentration coin to spend. If you're boosting Wisdom, then it's probably not better to boost your attacks with that coin, and it probably is better to just use Concentration maintaining Spirit Guardians. That said, if you really want to use your weapon, you could be using Spirit Shroud to get +1d8 damage on each attack. At level 10, you could have a 5th level Spirit Shroud up, giving you +2d8 damage per attack.

That would be Shillelagh +9 to-hit for 1d8 (shillelagh base) + 2d8 (spirit shroud) + 1d6 (symbiotic entity) + 5 and Shillelagh haft +9 to-hit for 1d4 (base) + 2d8 (spirit shroud) + 1d6 (symbiotic entity) + 5. If either attack hits, you get another +1d8 (divine strike) damage to give. Against an AC 18 target (I always calculate against such targets), you would be dealing an expected 30.58 damage per turn. However, I also want to emphasize how much prep work goes into getting all these buffing effects up.

You need a bonus action for Shillelagh and for Spirit Shroud, and an action for Symbiotic Entity.


It's especially frustrating when you could just be using the auto-twinned necromancy cantrip (Toll the Dead) to hit two targets for 2d12 damage each with a Wis save. Your save DC is likely 17, which is pretty decent. Anything that regularly passes those saves you should probably be using leveled spells on anyway. My typical dummy target has a +4 to all saves, and against such targets you'd do 15.6 damage per turn just from the cantrip. Then, you could have Spiritual Weapon up as a 4th level spell for an expected 24.45 damage per turn. Throwing up a Spiritual Guardians would boost all this a lot. Let's say it is a 4th level spell also. If there were two targets (you're using twinned cantrip after all), then your damage jumps to 53.25 a turn.



So, yeah, if you want to leverage the symbiotic entity damage, you need more attacks.

If you have some time to prepare for a fight, one way of doing things would be to cast Spiritual Weapon as a 4th level spell. Then, in the next round cast Spirit Shroud as a 5th level spell, and then to wild shape into a velociraptor. Then, activate Symbiotic Entity and charge in.

Bite +4 (probably with advantage from Pack Tactics) for 1d6+2d8+1d6+2
Claw +4 (probably with advantage from Pack Tactics) for 1d6+2d8+1d6+2
Claw +4 (probably with advantage from Pack Tactics) for 1d6+2d8+1d6+2
and if any of these hit, +1d8 from Divine Strike
Spiritual Weapon +9 (not sure if Pack Tactics applies...) for 2d8+2d8+5


Against an AC 18 opponent, that constitutes 54.9 damage per turn, but takes even more to set up.

[RogueJK]

If you want to do the Death Cleric/Spore Druid multiclass, I'd suggest choosing one class and leaving the other as a dip. Something more like Death Cleric 1/Spore Druid X. Or just ditch the mechanical multiclassing, and play as a straight-classed Death Cleric or Spore Druid and add in some of the flavor from the other class, if not the mechanics.

There's really not a whole lot of synergy between the two classes anyway since you're planning on relying on Shillelagh in melee for much of your combat prowess. As you noticed, that kinda limits your damage output. Both Clerics and Druids rapidly reach a point in early Tier 2 where they have better things to do than hit enemies with a stick once per turn, even with some small boosts to the damage from some class abilities or spells. Even the more martial-oriented Cleric subclasses like Forge/War/etc. are usually better served as casters (albeit frontline ones) than melee fighters at mid/high levels.

So if you're really wanting to focus on melee, you'd likely be better served by multiclassing with some levels of a Martial class instead. Something like a Ranger 5/Death Cleric X, or a Death Cleric 1/Ranger X. You can keep the "deranged death/decay priest" theme, but boost the mechanical melee components. And there's a lot more melee synergy with a Ranger/Cleric than a Druid/Cleric.

In this case, a Death Cleric/Swarmkeeper Ranger could have a lot of the same flavor as the original Spore Druid multiclass concept (semi-crazy death/nature priest surrounded by a swarm of flies), but would be a bit more geared towards melee specifically. You could still use Shillelagh with this build, if you take the Druidic Warrior fighting style at Ranger 2. One-handed Shillelagh quarterstaff + shield + Polearm Master feat would be a good combo for this Death Cleric/Swarmkeeper, giving you 3x melee attacks per turn (Attack + Extra Attack + BA PAM Attack). Especially when paired with something like the Hunter's Mark or Spirit Shroud spell, which give you bonus damage to each of your 3x attacks every turn.

Starting with a Level 10 character, that might look like a Tortle Death Cleric 5/Swarmkeeper Ranger 5 with a high WIS and CON. Go straight Death Cleric from there. Level 4 ASI goes to PAM. Level 8 ASI goes to +2 WIS (or something like Fey Touched/Shadow Touched/Telepathic with +1 WIS if your WIS is odd). Take Druidic Warrior fighting style at Ranger 2 for Shilelagh and either Mold Earth or Thorn Whip, and then Guidance, Thaumaturgy, and Toll the Dead for your Cleric cantrips, plus Chill Touch from Reaper. Use Chill Touch and Toll the Dead twinned with Reaper at range, and Shilelagh'd Staff + Shield + PAM in melee. Use your Concentration for things like Spirit Shroud, Spirit Guardians, Bless, Faerie Fire, Entangle, Web, Hunter's Mark/Favored Foe, etc. Use Animate Dead with your 4th level spell slot to generate and control undead meat shields. Have Absorb Elements in your back pocket for help against incoming Elemental damage. Use Thorn Whip's pull and Gathered Swarm's push to move enemies around. Get Expertise in something like Perception (for mechanical benefit) or Intimidation (for flavor benefit) through Ranger's Canny ability. Flavor some of your spells with a more death/decay theme: The thorns or webs you summon with Entangle or Web are slimy and decaying. Your Faerie Fire is a sickly pale green. When you use Guidance, your ally feels a deathly chill through their body. Mage Hand is your ever-present swarm of rotten bloatflies lifting or manipulating an object. Etc.

[Omni-Centrist]

I like the idea of making him more of a mortician than a worshiper of death i.e. Bladesinger 6/Spore X. You get access to haste, shield, extra attack, and can use the Tortle natural weapon to get extra attack to maximize DPS. You can reliably dump Dex with this build and focus on strength and ways to improve it, maybe magically i.e. weapons.