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View Full Version : DM Help Opinions on kobolds and other races with pack tactics



Lalliman
2021-03-26, 08:18 AM
I'm creating homebrew races for an original setting, and pack tactics makes sense for one of them. I'm hesitant about it because characters having advantage on almost every attack feels like it's stepping on the game's fundamentals. Kobolds are the only race in the official game with pack tactics, and I've never seen one played. So for people who have, what is it like?

How impactful is pack tactics on character balance?

How strongly does it dissuade the kobold player from using abilities without attack rolls?

Are other players ever jealous of the kobold's higher accuracy?

stoutstien
2021-03-26, 08:56 AM
Honestly advantage is so easy to generate pack tactics tends to be over hyped. The missing +1 ability improvement and sunlight issues is enough to prevent a lot of players from taking kobold even if they are allowed at a given table.

It's a strong racial feature but it's not game altering. What's your homebrew race look like as a whole?

Guy Lombard-O
2021-03-26, 09:34 AM
In games which use the alternate "Flanking grants advantage" rule from the DMG, pack tactics isn't that huge (along with a whole bunch of other class features and spells). Otherwise, it's a pretty great feature. Probably top 10% of racial features, I'd say.

Valmark
2021-03-26, 10:23 AM
As far ad characters go it's not a particularly strong feature- there are better ways to get advantage on one character then one requiring you and at least one of you ally to be within 5 feet of the enemy imo. It's mostly strong on minions who can really use the number- almost wiped a party out by winning initiative and having attacks hit really well (it wasn't my intention).

If the party has multiple melee characters with Pack Tactics it starts gathering more power though.

Yakmala
2021-03-26, 11:03 AM
It partially depends on the setting and the rest of the party.

How likely is the party to be adventuring in sunlight? How many other party members can just as easily generate advantage for themselves or others?

Overall, I don't think Pack Tactics is as overpowered an ability as many give it credit for. Compared to Elven Accuracy Gloomstalker/Assassins or Elven Hexblade Polearm Masters using Darkness, it's really nothing to worry about.

One new tool in a Kobold player's or Kobold party's arsenal is the Twilight Cleric from Tasha's. Easily overlooked in the description of Twilight Sanctuary is that, in addition to generating a 30' radius temporary HP field, it also generates a 30' radius field of dim light. If you have a Twilight Cleric, an entire party of Kobolds can make use of their pack tactics even under the least ideal of conditions.

Mastikator
2021-03-26, 11:47 AM
In my experience the kobold is a bit sub-par, however we run with the optional flanking advantage rule. If we didn't it would probably be a bit stronger.

Edit- it's worth mentioning that the DM has given the kobold (and the half-drow) an item that allows them to negate the sunlight sensitivity item, if he didn't the kobold would actually just suck.

verbatim
2021-03-26, 12:26 PM
I'm currently playing a Kobold Sorcadin (1 draconic sorcerer/4 oath of glory paladin) in Rime of the Frost Maiden (where RAW outdoors is never brighter than dim light) alongside a Bear Totem Barbarian, so pretty much an optimal Pack Tactics environment

1. I think that it's very strong without sunlight sensitivity, but at the same time I wouldn't consider it broken. Restricting your homebrew race to having +2 or +1/+1 racial ASI's instead of +2/1 and then having otherwise boring/weak additional features is probably enough to balance it.

2. Before I multiclassed at 5th level I used the Blessed Warrior fighting style in order to get Toll the Dead for ranged damage (instead of using Javelins), but I also stuck close to the barbarian so if I was using ranged damage that also probably meant no one was next to the target.

3. The rest of the party is new to DND but so far none of them have complained or implied that they think it's unfair.