Life Domain Cleric updated on D&D Beyond

[Vorenus]

I don't think anyone has posted about this yet. If there's another thread, I didn't see it. D&D Beyond has posted an update to the Life Domain Cleric, available here: https://www.dndbeyond.com/changelog/960-cleric-life-domain-disciple-of-life-update?utm_medium=email&utm_source=ddb_email&utm_campaign=nl_03_25_2021&utm_content=Final&utm_term=Newsletter


It's all good stuff, but here's something I found surprising. After discussing the Disciple of Life Domain Feature, the authors list a number of spells that are affected by that feature. Here's the one I found most surprising, and I'll just copy/paste the whole paragraph:


Mass Heal - heals 700 hit points spread as you like. The way this interacts with the Disciple of Life feature is pretty unique, as the feature doesn't just bump the amount healed up to 711. Instead, the bonus is applied to each creature. In a hypothetical situation where a Life Domain cleric were to cast this spell and choose to allocate 1 hit point of healing to each of 700 creatures - each of those creatures would also receive a bonus 11 healing (for a total of 12 each). That would mean the spell healed a total of 8,400 hit points!


I did not know that is how that worked. I guess I've been reading that spell wrong for the entire time I've been playing 5e.

--Vorenus

[Man_Over_Game]

I don't think anyone has posted about this yet. If there's another thread, I didn't see it. D&D Beyond has posted an update to the Life Domain Cleric, available here: https://www.dndbeyond.com/changelog/960-cleric-life-domain-disciple-of-life-update?utm_medium=email&utm_source=ddb_email&utm_campaign=nl_03_25_2021&utm_content=Final&utm_term=Newsletter


It's all good stuff, but here's something I found surprising. After discussing the Disciple of Life Domain Feature, the authors list a number of spells that are affected by that feature. Here's the one I found most surprising, and I'll just copy/paste the whole paragraph:


Mass Heal - heals 700 hit points spread as you like. The way this interacts with the Disciple of Life feature is pretty unique, as the feature doesn't just bump the amount healed up to 711. Instead, the bonus is applied to each creature. In a hypothetical situation where a Life Domain cleric were to cast this spell and choose to allocate 1 hit point of healing to each of 700 creatures - each of those creatures would also receive a bonus 11 healing (for a total of 12 each). That would mean the spell healed a total of 8,400 hit points!


I did not know that is how that worked. I guess I've been reading that spell wrong for the entire time I've been playing 5e.

--Vorenus

From my understanding, the official interpretation of it is basically:
"For each instance of something being healed by the Cleric's spell, add bonus healing"

Which is why the lead developer has stated that the bonus healing works on things like Goodberry, and would also likely work with Regenerate.

[Thunderous Mojo]

While Mass Heal only has a 60' range, under a permissive DM,
a Life Cleric could conceivably take a battered battalion,
(full strength is 1000 Soldiers: Ravinica stat block C/R 1/2),
that outright lost 1/3 of it's troops as casualties,
(with the remaining Soldiers badly wounded at 2-4 Hit Points each[), and through this single spell Heal the battalion back to battle readiness.

Who needs AD&D Battlesystem?🃏

'Conventional' wisdom is that 5e Healing: "Doesn't Keep Up".
'Conventional' wisdom is also that high level cleric spells are subpar, and one might as well multi-class into another caster class...and thus get 9th level slots, but not access to 9th level cleric spells.

I think this explains why Mass Heal is rarely discussed on this board.😉

An Arcana Cleric's Spell Breaker ability in conjunction with Mass Heal can be gobstoppingly effective.

[MrStabby]

While Mass Heal only has a 60' range, under a permissive DM,
a Life Cleric could conceivably take a battered battalion,
(full strength is 1000 Soldiers: Ravinica stat block C/R 1/2),
that outright lost 1/3 of it's troops as casualties,
(with the remaining Soldiers badly wounded at 2-4 Hit Points each), and through this single spell Heal the battalion back to battle readiness.

Who needs AD&D Battlesystem?🃏

'Conventional' wisdom is that 5e Healing: "Doesn't Keep Up".
'Conventional' wisdom is also that high level cleric spells are subpar, and one might as well multi-class into another caster class...and thus get 9th level slots, but not access to 9th level cleric spells.

I think this explains why Mass Heal is rarely discussed on this board.😉

An Arcana Cleric's Spell Breaker ability in conjunction with Mass Heal can be gobstoppingly effective.

My issue with arcana cleric isn't that spellbreaker is weak, but rather that DMs can sometimes be nice and rarely throw mass debilitating effects over the whole party but which the cleric will save against.
The need that it face off against a high level spell (for max value), that hangs around, but also whilst the party has lost enough HP, but that will still allow the cleric to cast it... does make it a bit niche.

[Thunderous Mojo]

, that hangs around, but also whilst the party has lost enough HP, but that will still allow the cleric to cast it... does make it a bit niche.
How uncommon is it to be 'down' a few Hit Points?

Going back to 1e, Demogorgon fulfilled a similar role to Hastur in the Cthulhu Mythos, and I have always associated the Symbol spell with Demogorgon.

So in either Out of the Abyss or Dungeon of the Mad Maze, players are guaranteed to encounter a Symbol spell, fairly regularly.

My experience with prior D&D editions was that parties prioritized making the cleric unassailable, even if that left other PCs vulnerable. After all the cleric is the one that can restore you to life and haleness. The Meld Into Stone spell is an easy way to allow a cleric to remain in reserve.

[Vorenus]

I have mostly been a DM for 5th ed, and only rarely a player, but in one campaign that I have been running for a couple of years now one of the PCs is a Dwarven Cleric of the Life Domain. So when I saw the interpretation I quoted above, it made me wonder if I have been doing other things wrong and short-changing that character (and, by extension, the character's player). That character is played by the person with the most RPG experience in my group, though, someone who literally has been gaming for over three decades, and he has never said anything about me interpreting it wrong. I'm going to share this information with him and see what, if anything, he has to say about it.

I always knew Life Domain clerics were excellent "heal bots," but, as I said before, I really was surprised to see this interpretation.

[Valmark]

While Mass Heal only has a 60' range, under a permissive DM,
a Life Cleric could conceivably take a battered battalion,
(full strength is 1000 Soldiers: Ravinica stat block C/R 1/2),
that outright lost 1/3 of it's troops as casualties,
(with the remaining Soldiers badly wounded at 2-4 Hit Points each[), and through this single spell Heal the battalion back to battle readiness.

Who needs AD&D Battlesystem?🃏

'Conventional' wisdom is that 5e Healing: "Doesn't Keep Up".
'Conventional' wisdom is also that high level cleric spells are subpar, and one might as well multi-class into another caster class...and thus get 9th level slots, but not access to 9th level cleric spells.

I think this explains why Mass Heal is rarely discussed on this board.😉

An Arcana Cleric's Spell Breaker ability in conjunction with Mass Heal can be gobstoppingly effective.
Is that the conventional wisdom? Until now on this forum and on others one of the most widely shared "rules" I heard was to not sacrifice spell levels if possible- basically the opposite of this.

Regardless yeah it could be great, although situational.

I have mostly been a DM for 5th ed, and only rarely a player, but in one campaign that I have been running for a couple of years now one of the PCs is a Dwarven Cleric of the Life Domain. So when I saw the interpretation I quoted above, it made me wonder if I have been doing other things wrong and short-changing that character (and, by extension, the character's player). That character is played by the person with the most RPG experience in my group, though, someone who literally has been gaming for over three decades, and he has never said anything about me interpreting it wrong. I'm going to share this information with him and see what, if anything, he has to say about it.

I always knew Life Domain clerics were excellent "heal bots," but, as I said before, I really was surprised to see this interpretation.

Out of curiosity, what was the wrong interpretation? That Disciple of Life triggers once instead of on each creature?

[Theodoxus]

I was surprised by Mass Heal too - though to be honest, I've yet to get a campaign (played or run) to 17+ so didn't even think about it.

[Thunderous Mojo]

Is that the conventional wisdom? Until now on this forum and on others one of the most widely shared "rules" I heard was to not sacrifice spell levels if possible- basically the opposite of this.
The above seems contrarian for the sake of being contrarian.

There are ample posts on this board, where people express the opinion that Divine Souls are better than clerics, in large part to having better higher level spell options.

There are, likewise, many posts stating that clerics are better served upcasting their spells, and there are not many good spell options for clerics post 7th level.

You are denying a reality that is searchable. Why?

[Valmark]

The above seems contrarian for the sake of being contrarian.

There are ample posts on this board, where people express the opinion that Divine Souls are better than clerics, in large part to having better higher level spell options.

There are, likewise, many posts stating that clerics are better served upcasting their spells, and there are not many good spell options for clerics post 7th level.

You are denying a reality that is searchable. Why?

Because I haven't seen that reality. Not sure what Divine Souls have to do with multiclassing clerics.

I outright never heard the latter, period, unless talking specifically about Concentration damaging spells (i.e. most of the time hardly anything is better then upcasting Spirit Guardians for a Cleric, at least pre-Tasha) which is a rather strict comparison.

Mass Heal as an example (since the thread is about it) is a great spell already. Which is also Cleric only, unless you use Magical Secrets or the optional features from Tasha (maybe, I don't recall if Mass Heal is opened to more classes).