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KnotaGuru
2021-03-26, 11:41 AM
Going to be playing in a one-shot adventure soon. Here's what I know so far:

-3-4 players (not sure what the other players are bringing to the table)
-Characters will be level 15 (maybe as high as 17)
-Rolled stats or point-buy if your rolls suck
-Not sure what magic items we're allowed to start with
-All official source material allowed
-Main enemies will be fiends

Most fiends have damage resistance, are resistant/immune to fire, cold, poison and have magic resistance, darkvision/truesight.

I was leaning toward tiefling as my race, possibly with infernal constitution feat (is that feat worth it?)

What would you build?

kaervaak
2021-03-26, 12:07 PM
What you want:

1. Magical weapon damage

2. Good saves

3. High damage

Paladin, Battlesmith Artificer, and Warlock seem like the best bets. Bladepact warlocks and Artificers can create magic weapons if those are hard to come by in the campaign. Artificers and Paladins have great saves and good damage. All three have decent versatility with the ability to go martial or cast spells.

Paladin and artificer are more team players, while warlocks will have a more selfish playstyle.

x3n0n
2021-03-26, 12:09 PM
Going to be playing in a one-shot adventure soon. Here's what I know so far:

-3-4 players (not sure what the other players are bringing to the table)
-Characters will be level 15 (maybe as high as 17)
-Rolled stats or point-buy if your rolls suck
-Not sure what magic items we're allowed to start with
-All official source material allowed
-Main enemies will be fiends

Most fiends have damage resistance, are resistant/immune to fire, cold, poison and have magic resistance, darkvision/truesight.

I was leaning toward tiefling as my race, possibly with infernal constitution feat (is that feat worth it?)

What would you build?

Obvious answer: Devotion Paladin.

Less obvious is almost any Monk: Diamond Soul and 11th-level feature (maybe even 17th with d10 MA die) are online, all attacks are magical, you've had lots of ASIs to fix your MADness. (Fireball from Elemonk and Hand of Harm from Mercy aren't great vs fiends.)

Full-casters are obviously at full power here.

5eNeedsDarksun
2021-03-26, 01:03 PM
I played a Light Cleric through Out of the Abyss and it worked well vs Demons as I took elemental adept, but here there is a 100% difference between resistance and immunity. If you are fighting Devils don't do this. So blaster types with the right damage can work but unless your DM provides a bit more info be careful. Also Divine Word is a crazy powerful spell vs fiends.

Mastikator
2021-03-26, 01:15 PM
Devils are for the most part resistant to bludgeoning, piercing and slashing if they aren't both magical and silvered. If you can't get your hands on a silvered magical weapon then probably go with a full caster that uses radiant or necrotic damage.

Death Domain Cleric would probably kick ass.

KnotaGuru
2021-03-26, 01:28 PM
Devils are for the most part resistant to bludgeoning, piercing and slashing if they aren't both magical and silvered. If you can't get your hands on a silvered magical weapon then probably go with a full caster that uses radiant or necrotic damage

Weapons don't need to be both magical AND silvered. Magical weapons always override damage resistance (except for a demilich). Silvered, and in some cases adamantine, work in lieu of magic weapon attacks if indicated in the creature stat block.

Anyway, I don't want this thread to get derailed with a discussion on weapon types vs resistance. I'd like to focus on character builds.

Full caster worries me since most fiends have magic resistance. But yes, having radiant, necrotic, or force damage would be helpful.

Evaar
2021-03-26, 01:30 PM
Less obvious is almost any Monk: Diamond Soul and 11th-level feature (maybe even 17th with d10 MA die) are online, all attacks are magical, you've had lots of ASIs to fix your MADness. (Fireball from Elemonk and Hand of Harm from Mercy aren't great vs fiends.)

Agreed, but also wanted to highlight that all devils (or almost all, there might be some exceptions) can see through magical darkness. So Shadow Monks shouldn't rely on that tactic.

Unoriginal
2021-03-26, 01:45 PM
Full-casters are obviously at full power here.

Magical Resistance hurts full casters more than anyone else.



-Main enemies will be fiends

Do you know which type(s) of Fiends? Devils, Demons, Yugoloths and miscellaneous aren't handled the same manner.



I was leaning toward tiefling as my race, possibly with infernal constitution feat (is that feat worth it?)


Only time I saw someone take this feat was for a Descent into Avernus livestream campaign, and it was worthwhile there. But it depends where your one-shot is going to take place and the kind of enemies you'll face.



Personally, I second Paladin and Monk as suggestions.

Mastikator
2021-03-26, 01:48 PM
Weapons don't need to be both magical AND silvered. Magical weapons always override damage resistance (except for a demilich). Silvered, and in some cases adamantine, work in lieu of magic weapon attacks if indicated in the creature stat block.

Anyway, I don't want this thread to get derailed with a discussion on weapon types vs resistance. I'd like to focus on character builds.

Full caster worries me since most fiends have magic resistance. But yes, having radiant, necrotic, or force damage would be helpful.

I did not know that, thanks for saying.

One option to deal with magical resistance is sorcerer with heightened metamagic spell.

Another option is overwhelming single target DPS, aka the crossbow expert sharpshooter. Samurai, Battlemaster and Psi Warrior are probably pretty good here.

Unoriginal
2021-03-26, 01:59 PM
Psi Warrior would be interesting, indeed.

x3n0n
2021-03-26, 02:31 PM
Full caster worries me since most fiends have magic resistance. But yes, having radiant, necrotic, or force damage would be helpful.

Magical Resistance hurts full casters more than anyone else.

Good point; I guess I'd be interested to hear if people have suggestions! My impression from others' comments in other threads is that once you're up above spell level 7, there are a bunch of tools that don't rely on having the targets fail saving throws.


Agreed, but also wanted to highlight that all devils (or almost all, there might be some exceptions) can see through magical darkness. So Shadow Monks shouldn't rely on that tactic.

Good point! This is probably not a good place for the Blind Fighting builds.

Astral Self and Kensei seem like fine picks here, mechanically, and both have big upside at level 17 if that ends up being relevant. Sun Soul, Long Death, Drunken Master, and Open Hand all seem acceptable too, although a few features may be clunkers.

Depending on exact level, dipping Cleric might be good. (For example, War gets you Divine Favor and potentially extra bonus action attacks for any turns you don't trigger Ki-Fueled Attack, and Peace gets you Emboldening Bond.)

Edit: on a potential Cleric dip for Monk: Protection from Evil and Good is obviously among the best things you could do with a slot and concentration. Also note that Fey Touched (Wis, Hunter's Mark) would take advantage of the extra slots while being a lot of extra damage vs a small number of targets. Hopefully someone else is doing AoE damage if there is a horde.


Edit edit: the rationale for Monk:

If you don't want to play a Monk, don't. :) Devotion Paladin would be my first pick for fit and raw power.

However, if you've ever been interested to play a Monk but didn't, this is kind of a dream setup: starting after Diamond Soul (!!), guaranteed access to damage that bypasses their resistance, having Martial Arts die competitive with normal weapons plus your 11th-level feature, lots of ASIs to catch up on AC, lots of ki. Also a great time for the Cleric dip, when your Wis is almost maxed, Cleric features are at top effectiveness, and you know you aren't borking your progression.

kazaryu
2021-03-26, 03:06 PM
Going to be playing in a one-shot adventure soon. Here's what I know so far:

-3-4 players (not sure what the other players are bringing to the table)
-Characters will be level 15 (maybe as high as 17)
-Rolled stats or point-buy if your rolls suck
-Not sure what magic items we're allowed to start with
-All official source material allowed
-Main enemies will be fiends

Most fiends have damage resistance, are resistant/immune to fire, cold, poison and have magic resistance, darkvision/truesight.

I was leaning toward tiefling as my race, possibly with infernal constitution feat (is that feat worth it?)

What would you build?

i second (or third?...fourth?) the paladin build. devotion paladins in particular can turn fiends, and you may be at a high enough level that you can max out, or at least boost both charisma and strength. although channel divinity does rely on magical saving throws. but regardless of that paladins are still going to be solid, regardless of subclass. although i'd steer clear of conquest, as fear immunity is fairly common among outsiders.

beyond that, a cleric could get some good use out of their high level spells. holy aura has a chance to blind any fiend that attacks a party member, every time they attack. summon celestial and planar ally...because i don't think it'd be too difficult to find an angel that would enjoy helping you stomp fiends. depending on the premise of the campaign, hallow+word of recall means a relatively safe place for your party to retreat to. again, depending on the overall premise, you may even ask your DM if it'd be possible to start play with a hallowed area. it would make sense for a high level cleric. even lower level spells like protection from evil and good could find some use. Im always going to be partial to life cleric, as its domain features give you a lot of the spells you want to prepare anyway. but almost any subclass will work. again, i'd steer clear of trickery though.

lastly, zealot barbarian is fully online as an immortal at this point. so uhh...depending on if your DM is ok with that BS just go some type of elven zealot barbarian.

Kane0
2021-03-26, 03:41 PM
Clerics and paladins. If you’re crusading against fiendish incursions, take some crusaders. Warlocks are ironically also strong contenders.

Certain barbarians, fighters, rangers and artificers are also good options. Bards, wizards and other casters make for good support, monks and rogues probably not first picks but can still find use.

Wraith
2021-03-26, 05:53 PM
For race, being a Tiefling is just 'okay'. Fiends often tend to have Magic Resistance and quite a few are immune to being charmed, so your innate spellcasting won't get you very far unless you pick one of the more niche bloodlines. You won't be sorry to be one, but there are some better options, I feel.

I would typically advise either a Aasimar or a Yuan-ti Pureblood. In my experience, Fiends tend to deal a lot of Necrotic and/or Poison damage and have innate spellcasting, so having resistance (if not immunity) to at least one or the other can be extremely helpful.

Aasimar can also self-heal and have a transformation ability that lets you deal Radiant damage at will; again this can be incredibly useful to augment any class you want to play as Fiends tend to be vulnerable to Radiant. Especially helpful since the ability is level based, so starting at 15 is hugely beneficial to you.

CTurbo
2021-03-26, 07:00 PM
I'd go Cleric all the way if you know you're up against fiends. Aasimar is a great option too. Clerics get all the best Radiant damage spells and some decent Force damage spells too.

Start with 1 level of Fighter for Con saves and the extra AC boost if you want, but if you think you'll get to level 17, that's a huge level for Clerics.


If you could use the UA Revised Ranger, a Gloom Stalker would be great here with Fiends as favored enemy.

Ogre Mage
2021-03-26, 10:58 PM
For class, the paladin and cleric are the standouts here because of access to radiant damage.

Eldariel
2021-03-27, 01:29 AM
On this level, Wizard is the best. It's not even close, Wizard completely clowns all other classes aside from perhaps the Bard (and due to subclass abilities, even the Bard). Why? You have Simulacrum. You have Contingency. You have Clone. You have Mind Blank. You have basically everything. You can play an Illusionist. It's the standard go-to if you wanna do stupid stuff on high levels. Malleable Illusions + Illusory Reality is crazy good. You have your permanent Major Images from level 6+ slots and you can keep them along with Malleable Illusions and make any kind of cover or wall or trap (that doesn't deal damage) with a bonus action. Add Mirage Arcana and you can deal damage too and shape the whole world for miles.

Whether your opponents are Fiends or whatever doesn't really change anything. Fiends die the same as the next guy except you should skip on damage spells (but on this level you should do that anyways). Animate Objects works with silver items. Summon Greater Demon actually works pretty well; cast it on level 6 to get an Armanite with magic weapons (though simple Barlgura or Shadow Demon or Chasme works too...but better against Devils than Demons since most Demon abilities have "non-Demon" clause). There's also stuff like Crown of Stars, Wall of Force + Wall of Light, Cloud of Daggers, Synaptic Static, etc. that works more than fine. Just avoid spells that give saves unless you go Diviner or Chronugist (in which case you can decree that they fail their saves). Chill Touch is the obvious damage cantrip since it uses an attack roll, deals a damage basically no fiends resist and has good range plus counters few fiends' annoying abilities.


So, I'd take the opportunity to play an Illusionist since you're given one. It's a tad broken but you so rarely get to cut off with it that it shouldn't matter that much and you can always hold back if need be. And moreover, it's fun as all hell. You're basically limited by your creativity only. I made a list of lower level spells that work fine against magic/legendary resistant enemies (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?615331-Looking-for-a-great-build-for-Out-of-the-Abyss-(gloom-stalker-)&p=24599464#post24599464) but of course, from level 6+ you'll also use Magic Jar (for a better body if you can find it), Contingency, etc. and you actually have solid access to radiant damage with Crown of Stars, Wall of Light, etc. If you really want to, you can go Order of the Scribes Wizard can cast Radiant Fireballs and such too but that's a bit meh.

The other option, if you wanna just kill them, is going Magic Missile Mage. Evoker 15 or Evoker 14/Hexblade 1 stacking all multipliers on that single Magic Missile roll and then just nuking someone in the face for ~150 Force damage with a single Magic Missile (on this level, Evoker 15 is obviously better but Hexblade 1 does give you Hexblade's Curse for nuking someone even harder when you need to kill some Pit Fiends fast). Works just fine. Less complex than Illusionist or a save-****er (Chronurgist is actually really good against Fiends since Fiends don't get Legendary Resistance very often so you can just say they fail and turn them to toads and bury them or something), but quite efficient.

It is, of course, trivial to note that e.g. Planar Binding, Animate Dead, etc. are still also really good here. Though if you wanna use Animate Dead, it's more for the utility part than killing enemies part (though Magic Stone from MI: Artificer can make it work reasonably well as a damage spell).


EDIT: Oh yeah, defensively you'll be more than fine between your base defenses, Absorb Elements, Counterspell & Contingency. And you can always have Clones up and Mind Blank is a really solid defense for much of the stuff the enemy can do too. And on this level you'll be able to have Lucky/Alert/Resilient: Con and 18 Int and a Magic Jar'd body (if you wanna hit things dead, come equipped with e.g. Gloom Weaver (https://5e.tools/bestiary/gloom-weaver-mtf.html)-body) so basically all your defenses are already shored up. You'll have great Int, good Wis/Con, decent Dex saves, Lucky for rerolling bad saves, spells to give you immunities, decent HP and even AC if you want (though you probably shouldn't care too much about it). And spells to make you even harder to affect. Chronurgist is the best in this regard obviously since it comes with two extra rerolls built in and then you can always, in the worst case scenario, pick to succeed on the roll instead.

Don't forget to use Lucky on Initiative as necessary as going first is huge (Chronurgist's +Int to Initiative is also insanely good here - that and +5 from Alert and Gift of Alacrity makes losing Initiative a distant dream and you're immune to surprise too). Obviously Variant Human or Custom Lineage is leaps and bounds above the competition here. Obviously use normal stuff like Familiars and Magen (Necromancer's Magen bull**** is online on this level too, which can be hilarious; Necromancer doesn't lose HP so they can just pump out Magen after Magen) and Homunculi and Phantom Steeds and such. No reason to peasant it up and do stuff yourself.


Magical Resistance hurts full casters more than anyone else.

It really doesn't hurt them meaningfully though. This is the level where you're dealing with Legendary Resistance on a regular basis. Magic Resistance is just something that shapes what you cast; you have enough spells that operate at full power that it doesn't really matter (unless you just bypass it with roll-bypassing abilities like Diviner's or Chronurgist's - both Portent and Convergent Future remove the roll entirely so you can save-or-suck just fine). You simply pick spells that don't have saves or have effects regardless of saves. Illusionist can just plain trap anyone without teleport (that fits in a 20' cube) as a bonus action without using Concentration for example. No save. No roll. You just do it. Malleable a Major Image on them and make it real. Kill other enemies, take your cocoons one by one. All the big subclasses on this level bypass saves one way or another.

LudicSavant
2021-03-27, 04:06 AM
Going to be playing in a one-shot adventure soon. Here's what I know so far:

-3-4 players (not sure what the other players are bringing to the table)
-Characters will be level 15 (maybe as high as 17)
-Rolled stats or point-buy if your rolls suck
-Not sure what magic items we're allowed to start with
-All official source material allowed
-Main enemies will be fiends

Most fiends have damage resistance, are resistant/immune to fire, cold, poison and have magic resistance, darkvision/truesight.

I was leaning toward tiefling as my race, possibly with infernal constitution feat (is that feat worth it?)

What would you build?

At high level, Wizards are basically the best for fighting fiends. The elemental and magic resistance doesn't matter -- the good anti-fiend spells ignore all those things, and are generally good spells to have prepared regardless.

Honorable mention goes to certain varieties of Bards, Clerics, Warlocks, and Paladins.


Magical Resistance hurts full casters more than anyone else.

If you had an ability named Fighter Resistance and it gave Fighters Disadvantage to grapple/shove checks, but you had a garbage AC, Fighters would still be strong against you.

As others have said, Magic Resistance is not really going to slow down an anti-fiend Wizard. It's about as effective a deterrent as cold resistance is to a pyromancer.

KnotaGuru
2021-03-28, 12:20 PM
Update:

I rolled my stats: 18, 16, 15, 12, 12, 8.
No specifics yet from the DM on allowable magic items or final starting level.

One of the players is going yaun-ti artillerist artificer.
Another player is going either archer (combo of ranger, fighter, and/or rogue) OR zealot barbarian.
Not sure if we'll get a 4th player or not.

I appreciate all the thoughtful suggestions. The illusionist wizard sounds interesting but I don't think I'm creative enough to get the most of it.

As of right now, I'm leaning devotion paladin or cleric (not sure which domain). Having a paladin give +5 to everyone's saves and always-on protection from evil sounds like a great way to combat fiends. But some of the high-level cleric spells look amazing (banishment, dawn, dispel evil, holy weapon, summon celestial, planar ally, divine word, holy aura...).

I was leaning toward tiefling for the fire resistance and possible infernal constitution feat for cold & poison resistance. And I like the thought of a fiendish race fighting against fiends and the possible inner conflict. Although I agree that aasimar would be a good choice as well.

The DM is still putting the adventure together so it might be a few weeks before we start playing.

Eldariel
2021-03-28, 12:53 PM
Update:

I rolled my stats: 18, 16, 15, 12, 12, 8.
No specifics yet from the DM on allowable magic items or final starting level.

One of the players is going yaun-ti artillerist artificer.
Another player is going either archer (combo of ranger, fighter, and/or rogue) OR zealot barbarian.
Not sure if we'll get a 4th player or not.

I appreciate all the thoughtful suggestions. The illusionist wizard sounds interesting but I don't think I'm creative enough to get the most of it.

As of right now, I'm leaning devotion paladin or cleric (not sure which domain). Having a paladin give +5 to everyone's saves and always-on protection from evil sounds like a great way to combat fiends. But some of the high-level cleric spells look amazing (banishment, dawn, dispel evil, holy weapon, summon celestial, planar ally, divine word, holy aura...).

I was leaning toward tiefling for the fire resistance and possible infernal constitution feat for cold & poison resistance. And I like the thought of a fiendish race fighting against fiends and the possible inner conflict. Although I agree that aasimar would be a good choice as well.

The DM is still putting the adventure together so it might be a few weeks before we start playing.

If you don't want to go Illusionist, there are two extremely powerful straight-forward Wizards that would, especially given your party, give you exactly what you want:
- Evoker: On level 10 you get +Int to damage on Evocation including Magic Missile. On level 14 you get Overchannel. Together these allow you to splurt someone with a level 5 Magic Missile for ~70 automatic Force damage. Which is pretty nice. Crown of Stars is also a beautiful spell: bonus action 4d12+5 Radiant damage (no Concentration) pretty reliably. Your AOE evocations and such also work fine: even on a successful save some of them can hurt nicely. And many of them are pretty nice since you can exclude people from them. You also have the usual suspects of Wall of Force, Banishment, Polymorph, etc. to do the usual Wizard stuff (though mind, single target disables like Banishment are unreliable due to enemy saves). On this level you have stuff like Maze that also deals with enemies for a good while for no save (DC20 Int check isn't a save so Legendaries don't matter and it's a hard check even for extremely intelligent creatures.

- Chronurgist: You wanna Banish someone (or Polymorph a Pit Fiend into your pocket toad)? Let me tell you about my friend Chronurgist. Their level 14 ability says "Your save fails, no check." You accrue a level of exhaustion so hopefully you have a friend who can cast Greater Restoration (or play a Jorasco Halfling and do it yourself!). You won't spam this but when someone absolutely needs to make a save or an enemy needs to fail a save or miss an attack or whatever, just press this button. Also two rerolls for your own and allied and enemy checks every day. And bonus to Initiative based on your Int. Jorasco Halfling Chronugist would be hilarious but of course, any kind of Chronurgist is an amazing party support character. What's better than +5 to saves? You can just choose that anyone makes their save, no check. And let them reroll if you think they can make it. You can also throw like Tiny Hut in combat with your level 10 ability (immortality dome against which nothing works; an absolutely godlike fighting spot for an archer), you can freeze enemies in space Int/day with a Con-save and so on. A great combination of powerful support abilities and solid spells.


Other options include Order of the Scribes (turn every spell into Radiant damage source :smallbiggrin: Spirit Shroud + Radiant Scorching Ray for annihilating an enemy's face) and Diviner (slightly less bonkers good than Chronurgist but still great, with lots of information gathering, and the strongest class after Chronurgist for dealing with Magic Resistance as Portent bypasses the whole roll and thus you simply ignore Magic Resistance when using it). But if you want to be the ultimate party support, Jorasco Halfling Chronurgist is probably unbeatable. It's also really, really good overall. Bladesinger of course works great too if you wanna just kill enemies martially: you're past the point where you can build a ranged or a melee Bladesinger and be a fighter and a wizard at the same time.

Of course, on this level any Wizard is fine. There are lots of great high level spells that just shine at disabling or annihilating Fiends, you can make Fiends kill other Fiends (Summon Greater Demon for Armanite is just really solid for ripping fiends apart), you have solid party buffing and enemy debuffing available and you can replicate basically everything else too. Want to fight for a moment? Just cast Tenser's Transformation and get Hasted. Hit enemies for lots of Force damage at 3 attacks per turn (2d12 plus weapon damage each).

With those stats I'd definitely abuse the hell out of it though: 20 Int, 16 Con, 17 Dex (you could even fit in Elven Accuracy if you wanted to Bladesing) and room for lots of feats (Alert, Lucky, Res: Con is always a good set and you can add whatever on top of it).

The reason I'm suggesting Wizard so hard is because Wizard high level magic is just amazing and it's rare to get to play around with it so I recommend taking the opportunity when you do get it. But Cleric is of course fine and a Pally never hurts either. But on these levels you might miss out on some of the great high level spells on the Wizard spell list.

Ogre Mage
2021-03-28, 09:03 PM
Update:

I rolled my stats: 18, 16, 15, 12, 12, 8.
No specifics yet from the DM on allowable magic items or final starting level.

One of the players is going yaun-ti artillerist artificer.
Another player is going either archer (combo of ranger, fighter, and/or rogue) OR zealot barbarian.
Not sure if we'll get a 4th player or not.

I appreciate all the thoughtful suggestions. The illusionist wizard sounds interesting but I don't think I'm creative enough to get the most of it.

As of right now, I'm leaning devotion paladin or cleric (not sure which domain). Having a paladin give +5 to everyone's saves and always-on protection from evil sounds like a great way to combat fiends. But some of the high-level cleric spells look amazing (banishment, dawn, dispel evil, holy weapon, summon celestial, planar ally, divine word, holy aura...).

I was leaning toward tiefling for the fire resistance and possible infernal constitution feat for cold & poison resistance. And I like the thought of a fiendish race fighting against fiends and the possible inner conflict. Although I agree that aasimar would be a good choice as well.

The DM is still putting the adventure together so it might be a few weeks before we start playing.

If you are at high level and may be 17th, the answer for cleric domain is clear -- arcana cleric.

That is because a 17th level arcana cleric gets Arcane Mastery. You choose four spells from the wizard spell list, one from each of the following levels: 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th. You add them to your list of domain spells. Like your other domain spells, they are always prepared and count as cleric spells for you.

My recommendations: contingency (6th), forcecage (7th), clone (8th), wish (9th).

Use wish to cast simulacrum with no material component cost and no 12 hour wait time.

And you still have all your clerical abilities. Remember that the arcana cleric's channel divinity is to turn fiends, fey, elementals and celestials. It almost certainly won't work on the most powerful demons and devils, but might be helpful when facing a lower-level horde.

kazaryu
2021-03-29, 02:42 AM
And you still have all your clerical abilities. Remember that the arcana cleric's channel divinity is to turn fiends, fey, elementals and celestials. It almost certainly won't work on the most powerful demons and devils, but might be helpful when facing a lower-level horde.

or for clearing adds during the boss battle

KnotaGuru
2021-04-01, 09:33 AM
Update:

DM decided the players will be level 17. Magic items: 1 common, 2 uncommon, 1 rare.

High probability of only 3 players. The player choosing the archer plans on a BM fighter 3/celestail warlock 14 with sharpshooter and a longbow as his pact weapon. The other player is sticking with a yaun-ti artillerist artificer.

I'm liking the arcana cleric more and more, especially at level 17 with arcane mastery. Assuming I went this route, what items and spells would you choose?

Trying to figure out my attributes as well. Post Tasha's, racial attribute allocations don't matter, and I have 4 ASIs at level 17. So it's really about the racial features. I figure 2 ASIs will be Warcaster and Resilient (Con). Not sure what else I'll need.

x3n0n
2021-04-01, 09:57 AM
Update:

DM decided the players will be level 17. Magic items: 1 common, 2 uncommon, 1 rare.

High probability of only 3 players. The player choosing the archer plans on a BM fighter 3/celestail warlock 14 with sharpshooter and a longbow as his pact weapon. The other player is sticking with a yaun-ti artillerist artificer.

I'm liking the arcana cleric more and more, especially at level 17 with arcane mastery. Assuming I went this route, what items and spells would you choose?

Trying to figure out my attributes as well. Post Tasha's, racial attribute allocations don't matter, and I have 4 ASIs at level 17. So it's really about the racial features. I figure 2 ASIs will be Warcaster and Resilient (Con). Not sure what else I'll need.

One approach can be found in the first post here: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?583957-An-Eclectic-Collection-of-Fun-and-Effective-Builds

Note that you can save a full feat/ASI by taking a Str-booster item.

Eldariel
2021-04-01, 10:33 AM
Level 17 Arcana Cleric is solid. Your level 9 spell should be either Wish (replicate all the lower level stuff) or Shapechange (replicate much of the lower level stuff and become an absolute monster in combat). Level 8, 7 and 6 spells depend on what's your level 9 spell.

1. You take Wish. This means you get Create Demiplane, Clone, Greater Steed, Simulacrum, Contingency, etc. (all permanent buffs) through the use of Wish. This frees up these slots for combat and daily use such as:
- Maze
- Mind Blank
- Crown of Stars
- Forcecage
- Teleport
- Disintegrate [for Forcecages and such]

2. You take Shapechange. This means you've got few tricks to enhance yourself permanently (you can turn into a Deva and use Change Shape to e.g. gain Gloomweaver stats permanently with all that entails) and have one of the most potent combat buffs in the game (Planetar, Radiant Idol, Hollyphant, Marilith, Ancient Brass Dragon, Ancient White Dragon, other Adult [Shadow] Dragons, Leviathan, Phoenix, etc. offer you basically most spells in the game at-will alongside any senses and most forms of attacks you might want, Legendary Resistance, and even most invulnerabilities and immunities) which lasts for 1 hour but takes your Concentration.

This means you'll be more inclined to use those level 6-8 spells on:
6. Contingency
7. Simulacrum
8. This one is still kinda open: Mind Blank, Maze, Clone, Create Demiplane are all reasonable spells to know.


In either case, you'll most significantly miss out on the Wizardly Reactions (especially Counterspell and Shield). This is the one big Achilles' Heel on Arcana Cleric compared to a real Wizard and indeed, the only real remedy is Mark of the Sentinel Human (or one of those BS Ravnica backgrounds), which gets Counterspell as a level 3 spell normally and Shield as a 1/LR deal (kinda silly but better than nothing). Sadly it's otherwise quite redundant with what you already get but that one spell alone is probably worth it, especially if you take Shapechange, since that opens up forms with plenty of Reactions to abuse Counterspell.

Indeed, Mark of the Sentinel is probably a fine race regardless of the way you go. It really helps round out your arcaney side, especially given how badly the party is lacking in that regard (half-caster and a warlock; you'll be doing most of the heavy lifting). I would be inclined to go with Wish in this case, in spite of how hilariously fun Shapechange is to play with, just to provide the party with all the usual benefits of having 9th level spells around. It would free up those 6th - 8th level slots for stuff like Teleport, Disintegrate and Mind Blank; gamechanging stuff you should have by this point. Of course, Shapechange can replicate teleportation and such to a degree just fine but not having to burn your 9th level spell every time you wanna go somewhere is nice. You at least get two 7th level spells eventually.


As far as magic items go, you have a lot of options. The new Tasha's stuff makes the "bonus to attack rolls and save DCs" pretty alluring - Amulet of the Devout would be +2 to all your spell attacks and save DCs at rare. For Uncommon, it's hard to go wrong with Sentinel Shield: Advantage on Initiative checks and Perception checks is just crazy good. If you can swing in Observant-feat and take even just Proficiency in Perception, you're already looking at 26 PP. With Expertise you'd be at 32 (Skill Expert + Observant would also be one Wis ASI). But even just the Initiative Advantage is great.

The other obvious Uncommon you should definitely have is a form of flight; Winged Boots and Broom of Flying are the big ones. Staff of Swarming Insects is a brutally powerful Rare if you want to abuse one-directional vision: though watch out, they block vision for your allies too. One way around lacking Shield is of course taking Staff of Defense for some AC boosting and easy access to the spell.

For Common, pick to style. Most of them aren't going to have a massive mechanical impact; if you want to be able to disguise self or whatever, pick one to that end.

Ogre Mage
2021-04-01, 08:49 PM
I agree on the Amulet of Devout +2. For a spellcasting focused cleric that item is highly desirable.

For your 8th level cleric spell I would recommend holy aura. It only lasts for one minute but is a very powerful buff for your party. As long as your party is within the 30 foot radius when the spell is cast they can subsequently move outside of it and still get the benefit. Creatures of your choice in that radius when you cast this spell shed dim light in a 5-foot radius and have advantage on all saving throws, and other creatures have disadvantage on attack rolls against them until the spell ends. In addition, when a fiend or an undead hits an affected creature with a melee attack, the aura flashes with brilliant light. The attacker must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or be blinded until the spell ends.

If you are concerned about getting surrounded spirit guardians is still a workhorse. Unlike many spells it is worth it to upcast it at a higher level. And the radiant damage (assuming your are good or neutral alignment), 10 minute duration and 15 foot radius will be no joke.

Given you will be fighting fiends I would take banishment. That spell is probably best used on mid-ranking threats. The most powerful fiends will resist it and your channel divinity ability should be sufficient against fiendish trash mobs. I'd cast death ward on myself because the party will be in trouble in the healer goes down. And I would pack greater restoration and heal.

KnotaGuru
2021-04-01, 09:02 PM
I agree on the Amulet of Devout +2. For a spellcasting focused cleric that item is highly desirable.

For your 8th level cleric spell I would recommend holy aura. It only lasts for one minute but is a very powerful buff for your party. As long as your party is within the 30 foot radius when the spell is cast they can subsequently move outside of it and still get the benefit. Creatures of your choice in that radius when you cast this spell shed dim light in a 5-foot radius and have advantage on all saving throws, and other creatures have disadvantage on attack rolls against them until the spell ends. In addition, when a fiend or an undead hits an affected creature with a melee attack, the aura flashes with brilliant light. The attacker must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or be blinded until the spell ends.

If you are concerned about getting surrounded spirit guardians is still a workhorse. Unlike many spells it is worth it to upcast it at a higher level. And the radiant damage (assuming your are good or neutral alignment), 10 minute duration and 15 foot radius will be no joke.

Given that you will be fighting fiends, banishment is an obvious choice. I'd cast death ward on myself because the party will be in trouble in the healer goes down. And I would pack greater restoration and heal.

Yeah, Holy Aura looks amazing and one reason I decided to go cleric. Divine word looks fun as well. Actually, the only reason our DM chose level 17 over level 15 was to give us access to those high level spells. I'll probably choose "wish" as my 9th level wizard spell. Shapechange looks really fun, but the plot line of the adventure (I just found this out) is we were level 5 characters, then summoned by a divine entity to fight the minions of hell. We were given divine powers (now level 17) to aid us in our quest. That being said, there's no realistic way my character would've encountered CR 17 (or even 10) before the divine blessing, so shapechange won't do much for me initially. Until I fight a few high level fiends that is...if we survive, lol.

Ogre Mage
2021-04-01, 09:06 PM
Yeah, Holy Aura looks amazing and one reason I decided to go cleric. Divine word looks fun as well. Actually, the only reason our DM chose level 17 over level 15 was to give us access to those high level spells. I'll probably choose "wish" as my 9th level wizard spell. Shapechange looks really fun, but the plot line of the adventure (I just found this out) is we were level 5 characters, then summoned by a divine entity to fight the minions of hell. We were given divine powers (now level 17) to aid us in our quest. That being said, there's no realistic way my character would've encountered CR 17 (or even 10) before the divine blessing, so shapechange won't do much for me initially. Until I fight a few high level fiends that is...if we survive, lol.

You might want to consider taking word of recall as an insurance policy if the party gets into real trouble. On the other hand, some risk-taking players I've known scoff at that spell. You know your DM better than we do.

Eldariel
2021-04-02, 12:04 AM
You might want to consider taking word of recall as an insurance policy if the party gets into real trouble. On the other hand, some risk-taking players I've known scoff at that spell. You know your DM better than we do.

Well, if he knows Wish he can just have an arbitrary amount of mature Clones hidden away in his Demiplane and he also has Teleport and Plane Shift and such, so I think the Arcane-side of the equation already takes care of that. Word of Recall is a fine spell but with Arcane Mastery, you'll probably have leeway


@OP: Tasha's added a spell called "Summon Celestial", which is an amazing damage spell when cast from a 6th or an 8th level slot. It's basically an extra Fighter Archer (and theoretically you can even ride it). Radiant Bow means it's excellent at killing fiends and it gives you solid range for fighting. You also have Conjure Celestial, which can get a Couatl, which has non-magical weapon immunity and the ability to assume all sorts of humanoid shapes, which makes it useful as a support spellcaster. You can use Planar Binding for that.

Also, the new Channel Divinity - Harness Divine Power - is just the best option by a long shot: recover spell slots (3/LR). This makes you more durable than a Wizard far as spell slots go, but only up to level 3 slots.

Cleric spells
Spirit Guardians and Spiritual Weapon are both still superb spells and definitely something you should deploy and definitely familiarise yourself with the non-Concentration spell loadout of the Cleric. Notably off the top of my head you've got:
1. Sanctuary

2. Aid [you want to upcast this by a lot], Warding Bond

4. Death Ward, Freedom of Movement

As spells you should make liberal use of; they don't cost Concentration and have longlasting benefits. Also note Tasha's additions to Cleric list: Aura of Vitality, Aura of Life and Aura of Purity are all spells that are potentially of use to you especially in an environment like this.

Aura of Vitality is the most efficient healing spell in the game if party needs recovery (and 3rd level or lower so you can use it with Harness Divine Power): 20d6 HP split in 2d6 chunks across the party from 3rd level slot. Same average healing as Heal, just 3 levels lower and splittable. The other Auras are obvious in what they do and when you want them.

If you need nukes, Inflict Wounds and Guiding Bolt actually not entirely worthless as they have attack rolls meaning they bypass most resistances and they can pack a reasonable amount of single target damage of types enemies rarely resist. They aren't good uses of your resources but sometimes when something needs to die, you might want to lean that way, especially in Hell where you expect things to be immune and resistant to everything.

Domain spells
Arcana Cleric gets Arcane Eye, Detect Magic, Dispel Magic, Teleportation Circle, Planar Binding, Magic Circle & few other spells as domain spells: of those, Arcane Eye and Detect Magic are stuff you'll want to use a lot (Arcane Eye is an amazing scouting spell), and you probably want to make sure to use Planar Binding too (like the Couatl mentioned) in order to abuse those two spells (Magic Circle and Planar Binding). Dispel Magic is something you'll naturally find handy. Detect Magic is also a ritual, just nice to have always available when you need it quickly so you can normally cast it too.

Magic Aura is the kind of spell you will forget about unless you make conscious effort to use it but it can be worthwhile: for example, to sell stuff with false aura, to hide your actual magic items so enemies can't try to dispel/steal them (have copies and Magic Aura to mask one and reveal another one - with Harness Divine Power, you can recover 3 slots per short rest so you can do this at fairly low cost) by creating replicates which you mask, etc. It's kinda niche but you'll have extra level 2 slots so you can play around with it.

Magic Missile has unfortunately fallen off a hundred times by this point unless you have some way to add riders to it, which you don't. It averages the same damage as your cantrips or worse.


Cantrips
- Chill Touch (ranged combat cantrip that ignores Magic Resistance, Legendary Resistance and most Fiend immunities and just so happens to nog regeneration too)
- Booming Blade (if you wanna fight up close, this ignores Fiend immunities and doubles up on your Potent Cantrip)
- Toll the Dead (just the highest damage cantrip available, though Sacred Flame is also worth considering type-wise; both have saves though so they're unreliable vs. fiends)

Then Guidance is the best utility cantrip on the Cleric-list (you literally just add it to everything) and the rest are stuff like Thaumaturgy or whatever. It'd be nice to not spend two Wizard-picks on damage cantrips: that would allow you to pick up some of the game changing Wizard cantrips like Minor Illusion or Mold Earth, but in this case I think you want to ensure your damage dealing options work on this level, especially since you even get to add Potent Cantrips on top of it.


Wizard Spells [Arcane Mastery]
I think the hardest call is the level 7 spell. Forcecage is an immensely powerful spell that even traps Tiamat (meaning you can just pew it dead with a longbow or Summon Celestial or whatever). OTOH Teleport is a gamechanging spell far as mobility goes, able to get your party wherever it needs to be (or out from wherever it doesn't need to be). Both are great picks.

You should get busy with Wish, replicating at least the following spells in short order:
- Simulacrum (copy yourself for more casty goodness)
- Clone (get an extra life)
- Create Demiplane (put that extra life somewhere safe)
- Contingency (get another extra life - tie it to some protective spell or teleportation effect or such to avoid e.g. would-be lethal attack or some devastating spell; perhaps make it something you can easily trigger yourself by thinking e.g. "I must get out")
- Find Greater Steed (yeah, ride a Pegasus! You can even Share Spells with it to make it a bit more durable and all)

It'll take about a week of work in-game to get everything in place. Magic Jar is another spell you can consider replicating if you find any bodies worth taking over - it's permanent.

KnotaGuru
2021-04-02, 10:17 AM
Thanks for all the great suggestions Eldariel! I plan on having Word of Recall prepared, and all the summoning/conjuration spells. I'm a huge fan of using spells to add allies to the fight. I've played a couple of druids in the past and even took conjure animals with bardic secrets on my lore bard. I had looked at summon celestial previously and it looks very powerful with a 6th level slot. Planar Ally looks potent as well, but that depends a lot on the DM. At least it doesn't require concentration.

The arcana domain seems like it's designed to be a summoner of planar beings, with domain spells such as magic circle, planar binding, and teleportation circle. Question: how does planar binding work? The spell indicates "If the creature was summoned or created by another spell, that spell's duration is extended to match the duration of this spell" which is 24 hours. Do I have to continue to concentrate on the original conjuration spell, such as Conjure Celestial used to conjure a couatl for 24 hours? I would think concentration would be removed but I could be wrong.

I definitely planned on having an Amulet of the Devout. I was thinking of the +1 (uncommon) and using my rare item slot on Staff of Defense (does that allow me to cast shield more frequently from Mark of the sentinel?) or Helm of Teleportation. Thoughts on that? Is the helm worth it or should I go for the rare +2 amulet to increase my spell save DC? **DM indicated we will be traveling to another plane of existence so teleportation won't help too much. This will make Word of Recall that much more important. DM also said we are given 1 day (in-game) to prepare before heading off to fight fiends. What can I do in 1 day to prepare?

Eldariel
2021-04-02, 01:58 PM
Thanks for all the great suggestions Eldariel! I plan on having Word of Recall prepared, and all the summoning/conjuration spells. I'm a huge fan of using spells to add allies to the fight. I've played a couple of druids in the past and even took conjure animals with bardic secrets on my lore bard. I had looked at summon celestial previously and it looks very powerful with a 6th level slot. Planar Ally looks potent as well, but that depends a lot on the DM. At least it doesn't require concentraion.

The arcana domain seems like it's designed to be a summoner of planar beings, with domain spells such as magic circle, planar binding, and teleportation circle. Question: how does planar binding work? The spell indicates "If the creature was summoned or created by another spell, that spell's duration is extended to match the duration of this spell" which is 24 hours. Do I have to continue to concentrate on the original conjuration spell, such as Conjure Celestial used to conjure a couatl for 24 hours? I would think concentration would be removed but I could be wrong.

Basically, the spell's duration becomes replaced by that of Planar Binding, in this case "X hours" so yes, Concentration is removed (as it's a part of the Duration entry). That's RAW but as ever, check with your DM. Of course, you should always upcast it for enough to not have to worry about it every day.


I definitely planned on having an Amulet of the Devout. I was thinking of the +1 (uncommon) and using my rare item slot on Helm of Teleportation. Thoughts on that? Is the helm worth it or should I go for the rare +2 amulet to increase my spell save DC? Also thought about using the rare item on Staff of Defense. Does that allow me to cast shield more frequently from Mark of the sentinel?

In a bounded accuracy system, every further bonus is more valuable than the last, so I'd definitely consider Amulet +2. That said, there's stiff competition for the slot. Since you have Wish, you don't really need flight (you can just ride a Pegasus) though it never hurts: that frees up one slot.

Sentinel Shield is must. And yes, Staff of Defense lets you cast Shield 4 times a day (or 5 but then you risk breaking it) recharging 1d6+4 / 2 shield casts each day (minimum of 2,5) so it should have you covered for your Shield needs. It also gives you +1 AC which can be nice, though you aren't stacking that much on it with this kind of all-rounder item build (AC, like everything in bounded accuracy, gets more valuable the more you've got). Still, just access to Shield and having armor + shield means you can easily look at AC 25, which is at least enough to give enemies a miss chance, especially if you can give them Disadvantage on attacks too somehow (you have spells for that and for a Cleric, it's not at all a bad plan to drop a big Concentration spell + Spiritual Weapon and then walk at enemies taking the Dodge-action and fighting with bonus actions, nogging them in the head with Booming Blade if they do try to go past you).

Ogre Mage
2021-04-02, 11:18 PM
What can I do in 1 day to prepare?

Cast clone and simulacrum either via wish or on their own via Arcane Mastery. Contingency would be another one if you took it for Arcane Mastery.

Since you will have word of recall, speak to your DM beforehand to set up exactly where the sanctuary is. This will be your "panic button" if it looks like a total party kill is imminent. Hopefully you won't have to use it.

If you create a simulacrum of yourself it gives you another concentration slot to play with. It's relatively fragile though, so probably best to try to keep it out of direct danger. Maybe it could cast holy aura on everyone and then hide, lol.

Eldariel
2021-04-03, 12:49 AM
Helm of Teleportation. Thoughts on that? Is the helm worth it or should I go for the rare +2 amulet to increase my spell save DC? **DM indicated we will be traveling to another plane of existence so teleportation won't help too much. This will make Word of Recall that much more important. DM also said we are given 1 day (in-game) to prepare before heading off to fight fiends. What can I do in 1 day to prepare?

I'd probably still greed and pick combat spells for 6-8 (though Teleportation seems immensely useful especially on another plane of existence - I'd still consider the spell but I wouldn't waste my only rare item on it since you can access it cheaper). Your first Wish should probably be Clone so you can leave it in a safe place (note, you have Plane Shift so even if you die you can easily come back in). Much depends on where you come from; if there's a safe place under your allies' control, Clone could stay there. Otherwise, you'd probably need to take two days: on the prep day, cast Wish > Clone and on the day you get Teleported spend your Wish on Create Demiplane > put your Clone in there.

Now then, other prep day stuff:
- Conjure Celestial: Couatl
- Planar Binding (8th level)This gives you a permanent Couatl pal. Keep it safe and its powers will sure come in handy (and it's surprisingly durable, at immunity to non-magical weapons, decent AC, decent HP, good saves across the board, True Seeing and company). Those spells it can cast it should make use of liberally: and it's telepathic and such so it can mediate communication amongst the party too. The one thing it can't do is fight so don't bother having it attack or any such: its job is to drop stuff like Bless and help out with restorative spells, magic detection, in general information.

Though do familiarise yourself with what Change Shape can do. It's a CR4 so the list isn't that strong but it's all beasts and humanoids. This means it can turn into e.g. Quetzalcoatlus [Volo's Guide to Monsters], which is a Huge flyer if your team needs a transport, or Killer Whale if you need a naval mount. Most beast-forms are less tanky than the Couatl itself so these are not very good combat forms for it and don't have that many useful abilities.

For Humanoid forms though, there's a lot you can do. Duergar brings invisibility and enlarge and Knight-form can use its Inspire ability to stack with Bless (which the Couatl should primarily be casting in combat), which can be convenient every now and then. WereX forms come with Keen Hearing and Smell for when that's needed. Orc War Chief can use Battlecry to give everyone Advantage on attacks for 1 round. Oracle can use 3 reroll reactions per day. Kraul Death Priest would give you Animate Dead 1/day but that's probably a bit non-Couatly. Booyagh Slave of the Archfey can Misty Escape (teleport 60' and turn invisible) as a reaction and has some illusion magic. And so on. It's just an impossibly broad ability. I'd mostly pick few "buff" types from there (e.g. Knight, Orc War Chief and Oracle) and use those to keep it sweet. Though if you ever need to command sharks in particular, keep in mind that Sahuagin Warlock of Uk'tuoa has a very specific ability to that end (not that you'd probably find that many sharks in hell). This post has a rather comprehensive list of the innate spellcasting the Couatl can get if you put your mind to it: plenty of stuff that remains useful in Tier 4 there (https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/c1bpep/you_have_woken_up_today_as_a_20th_level_wizard_in/ergp5cg/).

This means you've cast your 9th, 8th & 7th level slots on the prep day. And on the day you enter hell, you'll cast your 9th level slot again (if you need the private demiplane for clone safekeeping and any other safekeeping you may require). After one long rest during the adventure you'll finally have a free 9th level slot to create a Simulacrum, then Contingency, then Greater Steed. Yeah, your Wishes are gonna be occupied for a while. But it's okay, nobody else in the party has 9th level slots so it seems fine.

Other spells you could play around with:
- Planar Ally
- Word of Recall (yeah, it's a good time to setup the sanctuary in the first day before you leave, because who knows when you'll find another one; though you could, if you cast Create Demiplane for your Clone on day 2, set your Demiplane as a sanctuary since that's at least a 100% safe place)

You could even Hallow some place in the eve of your departure (provided you can afford it, it's 1000gp).


Overall, I'd probably go:
Prep day:
9th level - Wish: Clone
8th level - Planar Binding
7th level - Conjure Celestial
6th level - Planar Ally

5th level - You could cast Geas on yourself and your allies to stay true, remain together and fight the right fight (but check with your DM how mind control effects stack: earlier editions gave you an opposed Charisma-check to see who keeps control). An oath, so to speak. This could enable counteracting some mind control effects you might later run into.

4th level - Cast Divination to maximise the amount of information you have about where you're going and what needs doing. You could also just Animate a lot of undead but that doesn't look to be your style. Stone Shape yourself some kind of altar and idol of your deity to bring to your demiplane (provided your deity wants that kinda stuff).

1st day of the adventure:
9th level - Wish: Create Demiplane
6th level - Word of Recall - set the Demiplane as your safe haven (I guess you should Hallow it first - that means you'll have to spend a day there since Hallow takes 24 hours to cast and obviously you'll allow Celestials but block everything else) and haul your Clone in there and any items or whatever you might need

Then just head on your way, casting Wish to generate a new cool thing every day (you need Wish to exit the Demiplane so it'll be T+3 days when you get Simulacrum, T+4 days when you get Contingency and T+5 days when you get Greater Steed).


Don't forget about your Divine Intervention either; it's a hugely powerful ability that can non-magically replicate e.g. Shapechange if need be but of course on this level it's still pretty likely to do nothing. Still, it costs you nothing to try every Long Rest so give it a go and see if your deity would e.g. "help you create an extraplanar safehaven for your excursion". That would save you a day's worth of casting and let you get started much earlier. Like if you managed to Divine Intervention for the Demiplane, then you could just get teleported from there after having made all the prep on day 1 and thus you could Wish for Simulacrum on day 2.

x3n0n
2021-04-03, 09:45 AM
And yes, Staff of Defense lets you cast Shield 4 times a day (or 5 but then you risk breaking it) recharging 1d6+4 / 2 shield casts each day (minimum of 2,5) so it should have you covered for your Shield needs.

Just a nit: "With the staff in hand, you can use your action to cast one of the following spells from the staff if the spell is on your class's spell list: mage armor (1 charge) or shield (2 charges)."

Shield isn't one of the spells added to your class's spell list by the Mark, so I don't think it works by RAW. (Then again, the item doesn't actually function by RAW either, since it says you can cast shield as an action, not a reaction.)

OP, I'd consult with your DM rather than risk him deciding that your chosen rare magic item doesn't do the only thing you actually want it to do.

KnotaGuru
2021-04-04, 04:20 PM
Just a nit: "With the staff in hand, you can use your action to cast one of the following spells from the staff if the spell is on your class's spell list: mage armor (1 charge) or shield (2 charges)."

Shield isn't one of the spells added to your class's spell list by the Mark, so I don't think it works by RAW. (Then again, the item doesn't actually function by RAW either, since it says you can cast shield as an action, not a reaction.)

OP, I'd consult with your DM rather than risk him deciding that your chosen rare magic item doesn't do the only thing you actually want it to do.

DM said Mark of the Sentinel does not give access to the shield spell, therefore the staff would be useless. I’ll need a different rare magic item. And possibly a different race, ideally with darkvision, fire resistance, and/or poison resistance.

The artificer player is also switching to wizard.

Eldariel
2021-04-04, 04:50 PM
DM said Mark of the Sentinel does not give access to the shield spell, therefore the staff would be useless. I’ll need a different rare magic item. And possibly a different race, ideally with darkvision, fire resistance, and/or poison resistance.

The artificer player is also switching to wizard.

Helm of Teleportation is not bad, but I might also just lean towards the simple Amulet of the Devout +2 at that point. Race-wise, it's hard to outdo Variant Human or Custom Lineage; feats can do all sorts of awesome stuff on this level. Darkvision basically doesn't matter though (it's a level 2 spell lasting 8 hours for Wizards, you can probably barter for it) and neither does poison resistance (again, a level 2 spell lasting only 1 hour but still). Fire resistance is the only one of those that could be relevant (more useful against devils than demons) though even there, Fire Shield (sadly not an Arcana Cleric spell) is a 10 min protection from fire with some boons and no Concentration.

If you still want racial fire resistance though, your options are basically fire-based Dragonborn, Tiefling, Genasi or one of the Zendikar Goblins. None of those are especially powerful races overall, though Winged Tiefling is of course very notable in being a flying race. Infernal Legacy is pretty much wasted here anyways since it's mostly fire magic and obviously, you fight things against which fire plain sucks so getting wings instead is nice (if not that great on this level since you can just cast Find Greater Steed). I'm pretty sure you could just Wish or ask your deity to bless you with fire resistance and that should work just fine.

FWIW, Mark of the Sentinel is still great: Bigby's and Counterspell are huge spells to add to your list (Bigby's is one of those spells to lock down targets that have legendary resistances). But overall, any decent race will do (the usual suspects: Variant Human, Custom Lineage, Hill/Mountain Dwarf, Half-Elf, Elf, Yuan-Ti Pureblood, Goblin, etc.). If you do want racial fire resistance, I would suggest Winged Tiefling or Zendikar Goblin.

EDIT: Oh yeah, Warforged exists! +1 AC and poison resistance and some minor bonuses. But I think Mark of the Sentinel is still better, for a couple of reasons:
- You get 1/day Shield. That's way better than 0/day Shield. Enables you to play aggressively until you cast it, after which point you can lean on the Dodge-action more.
- The other spells are still great. Arguably having your Reaction free for Counterspell is better than having to split it between Shield and Absorb Elements (and again, you do get that 1 Shield per day)

As a high level caster, I definitely suggest looking into what spells can't do for you in your race. Saving throw rerolls like Yuan-Ti Pureblood, Gnome or Vedalken are basically the only reason I'd not take Counterspell...but I would rather just take Counterspell. That protects you from Pit Fiend's Fireballs as much as Babau's Dispel Magics, Glabrezu's Power Word: Stun, Molydeus's Imprisonment and Polymorph, etc. I wouldn't think of playing a caster without Counterspell on this level if I had the choice: it makes your party so much safer (and vs. Fiends you generally don't need to worry about Counter-Counterspells).

EDIT#2: Actually...you might be able to Harness Divine Power to recover your Shield-spell giving you 4/day (albeit at recovery in-between). You could ask about that with your DM. Harness simply restores a spell slot, nothing about it having to be a Cleric one. Technically "Guardian's Shield" doesn't use spell slots but it still seems like potentially something a DM might let fly.

Actually: Ring of Spell Storing. You can cast up to 5 Shields into the Ring and then the Ring can be used to recast those as needed. You could also get an Absorb Elements or two from your Wizard buddy. Yeah, this is probably the best way to go about it: you can charge up Shields into the Ring whenever you aren't needing them giving you plenty of depth when you do. It can also be used with familiars and steeds and such if you wanna give them the ability to cast spells instead (for things you need two Concentrations for, you can give a charged ring to a minion and they can Concentrate on it for you). Take Ring of Spell Storing as your rare item and it solves your problems without the annoying verbatim of Staff of Defense.